Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ...

[Ibi...@aol.com]

Just too much speculation!  What actually did happen?

GMI.

 

In a message dated 10/8/2015 4:09:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alu...@gmail.com writes:

My People:

Here is what Oshiomhole is quoted to have said:

QUOTE

You challenge Pencom and Ministry of Finance, you will discover that over N3.5tn was drawn by the previous government from pension funds to support recurrent expenditure, not to support infrastructure.

UNQUOTE

Assuming he was quoted correctly - no embellishment or fabrication - there are two issues here:

1. First is the very character of MISAPPROPRIATION. If that is what Oshiomhole is hinting at, then misappropriation/misapplication means not spending a particular money the way it was meant to be spent, sometimes by the person who has custody of the money, who may do it under the influence of another person.  I am not sure that is what Oshiomhole is stating here.  It is therefore trite to say that something CANNOT happen, when in fact the very POSSIBILITY/REALITY of its happening is the ILLEGALITY being hinted at.

2. Secondly, and more importantly, is to ask certain questions:

    (1)  Was  N3.5 trn drawn from PENCOM during this period?

(2) How much of it was invested in INFRASTRUCTURE?

(3) Is there ANY other CAPITAL category OUTSIDE of Infrastructure that PENCOM spent part of the money on?

If NONE was invested in Infrastructure or any other Capital Project - as Oshiomhole is likely to be hinting - then the ONLY other category that PENCOM must have spent the money on would be RECURRENT - to pay for

(A) its (PENCOM) own workers (salaries + allowances)

(B) to pay for its own overhead operations

(C) to pay for retirees - its primary aim.

I believe that is what Oshimhole is hinting at - that the N3.5 trn was not INVESTED to generate more money - maybe beyond interest income from banks - and was used to do (A), (B), (C) above, rather than to include

 

    (D)  Investment in Infrastructure (Roads, Railway, Power, Water), for which citizens will be required to pay

    (E)  Low-Interest Loans for Education

    (F)  Low-Interest Loan for Agriculture

    (G)  Low-Interest Loans for Manufacturing Industries

    (H) Conservative Investment in Foreign Securities

 A successful investment in these will not only DEVELOP the country, but a portion of the return on investments will be ADDED to the income of the retirees via (D) to (G) above.

That is what is done all the world over - except in Nigeria apparently - out of fear of corruption? We must rise above that, and be confident that we can put the proper controls.

In conclusion, I fully support the conservative use of the trillions of PENCOM in developing our country. Not doing so is ridiculous, and is like that story of the Bible where one man was given a talent and he BURIED it and returned it to its owner who upbraided him, while the others invested theirs, and where given even more money.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 10:42 PM, 'Leye Ige' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

"The funds are held by one independent institution while the investment decisions are made by a different private sector entity. All regulated by PENCOM..No Government can use pension funds as before because the funds neither belong to Govt nor controlled by Govt."--Joe Attueyi



(1) The funds need NOT belong to or  be controlled by the Government BEFORE the government can access it. The Government appoints whoever will be the directors  of PENCOM and associated entities.
(2) The government does NOT have to "use it as before"; that is, simply dipping its hands into it; BUT the government can utilize it via "Investments"--which is what Pension funds are all about-- just that in this case, the "investment" is in recurrent expenditure.
Leye Ige


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 10/7/15, Joe Attueyi topc...@yahoo.com [OmoOdua] <Omo...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Subject: [OmoOdua] Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: Jonathan spent N3.5tn pension fund on recurrent expenditure – Oshiomhole
 To: Omo...@yahoogroups.com
 Cc: Omo...@yahoogroups.com, "Segun Sanni therea...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "Oyo State Intellectual Forum" <Oyo-...@yahoogroups.com>, "NAIJA Dream Team Intellectuals" <naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.com>, "Buddies" <Cauc...@yahoogroups.com>, "Ode- Besilu's Group" <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com>, "AfricanWorldForum" <AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Naija News" <TalkN...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <Egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "Unilorin friends" <Universityo...@yahoogroups.com>, "Yan" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Professionals" <capitalmark...@yahoogroups.com>, "Ra'ayi Riga" <raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "Naija...@googlegroups.com" <Naija...@googlegroups.com>, "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
 Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2015, 12:29 PM

  









       Post Adeola commission restructuring of
 the pension system:
 the  pension
 funds contributed
 ‎under the auspices of
 the National Pension Commission
 (PenCom) are
 managed by privately owned Pension Fund
 Administrators (PFAs) and kept in custody by
 Pension Fund
 Custodians
 (PFCs).

 as Segun
 rightly educated those who are interested in knowing how the
 pension system currently works in Nigeria. The funds are
 held by one independent institution while the investment
 decisions are made by a different private sector entity. All
 regulated by PENCOM. 
 No Government can use
 pension funds as before because the funds neither belong to
 Govt nor controlled by Govt. 
 Some state governments
 have not adopted these pension reforms. Edo is probably one
 of them -- which would explain Oshio's
 confusion
 Joe
 Sent from my iPhone
 On Oct 7, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Leye Ige ige....@yahoo.com
 [NIgerianWorldForum] <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:

 the  pension funds contributed

  ‎under the auspices of the National Pension Commission

  (PenCom) are managed by privately owned Pension Fund

  Administrators (PFAs) and kept in custody by Pension
 Fund

  Custodians (PFCs).

     __._,_.___










         Posted by: Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com>





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[Joe Attueyi]

1)  Was  N3.5 trn drawn from PENCOM during this period?

Prof Aluko

When a person of the status of a state governor makes a statement one ought to take it seriously. However if it is founded on so flawed a premise as that excerpted above then one has to worry whether 'everything is alright'. 

PENCOM is a public institution that REGULATES activities of PRIVATE SECTOR institutions--Pension fund administrators and Pension fund custodians. PENCOM has neither custody nor control over pension fund contributions 

It is NOT possible to withdraw N3.5 trillion from PENCOM---simply because PENCOM does NOT have N3.5 trillion. 

If you and/or Oshio can show that anybody withdrew N3.5 trillion from PENCOM I'll pay $1,000 to any charity of your choice no questions asked   

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/37e4fe.2f4872d7.434797eb%40aol.com.

[GEORGE Kerley]

How can you people even take seriously even if at face value, any thing that Oshiomole says? Is this not the same fellow who has been reeling out despicably flawed figures?

I see it as plain treachery...or someone is deliberately misleading Oshiomole and cause him to be seen as foolish!

GK

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Posted by: Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com>

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Joe Attueyi:

You wrote:

QUOTE

When a person of the status of a state governor makes a statement one ought to take it seriously. However if it is founded on so flawed a premise as that excerpted above then one has to worry whether 'everything is alright'. 

PENCOM is a public institution that REGULATES activities of PRIVATE SECTOR institutions--Pension fund administrators and Pension fund custodians. PENCOM has neither custody nor control over pension fund contributions 

It is NOT possible to withdraw N3.5 trillion from PENCOM---simply because PENCOM does NOT have N3.5 trillion. 

If you and/or Oshio can show that anybody withdrew N3.5 trillion from PENCOM I'll pay $1,000 to any charity of your choice no questions asked  

UNQUOTE

Okay, okay, now I understand you....but you are being PENDANTIC about language.  You would rather Governor Oshiomhole to say "funds meant for PENCOM administration (through PFAs and PFCs) were spent on recurrent expenditure?"

Is that it?  

Okay, do you agree that  funds are TRANSFERRED to the PFAs and PFCs from the coffers of the Federal Government, and that before that transfer, an unscrupulous government can (but should not) SPEND the money - ie misappropriate it - on either recurrent or capital expenditure?

Meanwhile, while you are preparing your response, please read the following:

QUOTE

http://www.antigraft.org/cc-case/pension-funds-theft-n32bn-police-pension-fund

Pension Funds Theft: N32bn Police Pension Fund

Submitted by Grassroots and Gender Devel... on Tue, 2013-06-04 14:32

Offender(s)

Charged: No
Convicted:No

Sectors: pension

Story

The cry of Nigerians pensioners is likely been heard by the “Most High” as cases of pension frauds has been unravelled recently in various sectors of the Nation. This was discovered when a fraud of over N5billion was uncovered in the Pensions Unit of the Office of the Head of the Civil Service of the Federation by the operatives of Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) in April 2012.

 

While the nation was still whirling from this news another scandal broke out. It was reported that there had been massive embezzlement of Police Pensions Funds, with several billions of naira diverted into the private accounts of some government officials. Following these scandals, there was widespread condemnation by the media and general populace about the government’s unwillingness to decisively tackle the issue of corruption, which has become a bane to the country’s development. The Police Pension Fund theft could be best described as an embarrassment to the National.

 

The unfolding multi-trillion naira federal pension fraud advertises to the entire world that corruption has overwhelmed the Nigerian state. When the Senate, the upper legislative chamber, throws up its hands and says it has handed over an official it accuses of pilfering public funds “to God”, it signposts its utter helplessness over the very important task of tackling corruption in public places. 

The former Director of Pension in the Police Affairs Ministry, John Yakhubu Yusufu had who pleaded guilty to the 20-count charge of criminal conversion of N32.5 billion belonging to the Police Pension Fund. EFCC had alleged that the accused persons conspired and sequentially withdrew monies from Police Pension funds in an account domiciled at First Bank of Nigeria and shared it among themselves, adding that the 3rd accused person, Inuwa Wada, collected N18million from Unity Bank Plc, as his reward for retaining the Police Pension Account with the bank.

 

According to the EFCC, the offence is punishable under section 27 (3) of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (Establishment e.t.c) Act Cap E1 2004. Yusufu was hitherto facing trial alongside a Permanent Secretary in the Office of the Head of the Civil Service of the Federation, Mr. Atto see wheiku Abubakar Kigo and six others, Esai Dangabar, Ahmed Inuwa Wada, Mrs. Veronica Ulonma Onyegbula, Sani Habila Zira and Christian Madubuike.

The scale of the fraud in public sector pensions is as massive as the twists in official efforts to impose order are bizarre. Abdulrasheed Maina, Chairman of the Presidential Pension Reform Task Force Team, reckons that about N3.3 trillion has been released by the Federal Government for public sector retirees since 1976 “without accountability”. Over the years, not only has the country been treated regularly to the awful spectacle of elderly retirees collapsing and dying in the contrived pensioners’ verification queues, mind-boggling revelations of massive, systematic and brazen theft have also been making the headlines, confirming our rating as one of the world’s most corrupt nations.   

 

It is still not clear to many citizens of the country why the Justice Abubakar Talba, the Federal High Court, Abuja, sentenced John Yusufu, former director in the Police Pension Office, to two years in prison with an option of N250, 000 fine on each of the three counts. The ruling drew anger from many Nigerians, including legal experts, who believe that granting an option of fine for such a monumental fraud would encourage corruption by public officers.

UNQUOTE

We shall be waiting, to see whether Oshiomole is the target, or our interest in enhancing a discussion that Pension funds should be properly invested conservatively in developmental projects under sovereign guarantee.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/CAC3hgANYqceP7rHzHxfiR8BeqTu6-efgs0XERDL2Aig_CE82Cw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Afis Deinde]

"(1) The funds need NOT belong to or  be controlled by the Government BEFORE the government can access it. The Government appoints whoever will be the directors  of PENCOM and associated entities.
(2) The government does NOT have to "use it as before"; that is, simply dipping its hands into it; BUT the government can utilize it via "Investments"--which is what Pension funds are all about-- just that in this case, the "investment" is in recurrent expenditure."
Leye Ige

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Segun Sanni]

Please tell us. 

So the money being raised by the DMO to bail out the states is also from the pension funds?? Lol.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum] Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2015 12:53 To: NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com Reply To: AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Naija...@googlegroups.com; naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.com; AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ekiti...@yahoogroups.com; Oyo Forum State Intellectual Forum State Intellectual Forum; Naija; YanA...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ...

 

JCA, 

Please don't jump into conclusions, what Governor Oshiomhole said makes a lot of sense ,You are an accountant you should know how governments raise money through the DMO . 

 

Sent from my iPad

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[Segun Sanni]

Please explain to us now!!! You're not known to be reticent when you think you have your facts! Lol.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

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Don't muddle up the issue. You should know better being a former boss of a pension company. Former president Jonathan and Mrs Okonjo - Iweala ( Phd Harvard ) should be publicly caned for economic mismanagement . 

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[Joe Attueyi]

but you are being PENDANTIC about language

Prof Aluko

If by pedantic you mean being excessively concerned with minor details then I must say you are wrong. 

First, like I said in my opening, the person making a statement has an impact on the value placed on a statement. 

My little understanding of the English language tells me there is a huge difference between a claim that 

1) Pension fund contributions in the custody of PFCs, managed by PFAs and regulated by PENCOM 'were withdrawn from PENCOM and spent on recurrent expenditures'

Which is the allegation Oshio is reported to have made 

 

AND 

2) Government's pension obligations were not paid to PFCs but (the monies) were used by Govt to fund its recurrent expenses. 

Which is your new interpretation of what Oshio may have meant. If the monies have not been transferred to the PFCs how can it be 'withdrawn from PENCOM '?  

I am 100% sure that (1) is not right. 

If and when you get confirmation from Oshio that he meant (2) then we can debate that.  I doubt it adds much value to be reading Oshio's mind ---I can only read what he said literally!

For education purposes, the stealing of pension funds by Govt officials as evidenced by the article you posted below and common stories of pensioners dying on queues triggered the Adeola pension reform commission that put management of Pensions in the private sector while the managers are regulated by the public sector. 

If you and/ or Oshio can show just one incidence of pension monies stolen since the reform was implemented I'll pay $1000 to a charity of your choice. 

While I cannot speak for whether or not the Federal Government pension obligations are fully funded, I can say without fear of contradiction that public and private sector pension contributions paid into the PFCs is one of the most regulated funds in Nigeria today.  We recently had a debate hereabouts whether the regulator & custodians should loosen the rules to allow more access to the funds for capital projects

http://www.premiumtimesng.com/business/banking-and-finance/191058-contributory-pension-fund-hits-n5-trillion-pencom.html

The current pension system is proof that the separation of management ( private sector) and regulations ( public sector) of commercial enterprises is what suits Nigeria 

Joe

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Joe Attueyi:

Except for the issue of Oshiomhole - where you don't want to give him a benefit of the doubt while I do - our positions are very close on the desirability to invest these trillion-naira pension funds conservatively for national development purposes, under sovereign guarantee as well as possibly re-insurance of the pension funds.

Nor be so?

So let us both quit while we are ahead- while you keep your $1000! :-)

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/9549D2F9-401E-4C34-BDD6-FAA00F693A2F%40yahoo.com.