| From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum] Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2015 13:19 Reply To: AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]; Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk; NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Naija...@googlegroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ekiti...@yahoogroups.com; Oyo Forum State Intellectual Forum State Intellectual Forum; YanA...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [Naijadreamteamintellectuals] Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ... |
Please explain to us now!!! You're not known to be reticent when you think you have your facts! Lol.Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2015 13:02Reply To: AfricanW...@yahoogroups.comCc: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]; NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Naija...@googlegroups.com; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ekiti...@yahoogroups.com; Oyo Forum State Intellectual Forum State Intellectual Forum; YanA...@yahoo.comSubject: Re: [Naijadreamteamintellectuals] Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ...Don't muddle up the issue. You should know better being a former boss of a pension company. Former president Jonathan and Mrs Okonjo - Iweala ( Phd Harvard ) should be publicly caned for economic mismanagement .
Sent from my iPad
On 8 Oct 2015, at 12:57, Segun Sanni therea...@yahoo.com [Naijadreamteamintellectuals] <Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk> wrote:
Please tell us.So the money being raised by the DMO to bail out the states is also from the pension funds?? Lol.Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2015 12:53Reply To: AfricanW...@yahoogroups.comCc: africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Naija...@googlegroups.com; naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.com; AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ekiti...@yahoogroups.com; Oyo Forum State Intellectual Forum State Intellectual Forum; Naija; YanA...@yahoo.comSubject: Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ...JCA,Please don't jump into conclusions, what Governor Oshiomhole said makes a lot of sense ,You are an accountant you should know how governments raise money through the DMO .
Sent from my iPad
On 8 Oct 2015, at 11:17, Joe Attueyi topc...@yahoo.com [NaijaObserver] <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:1) Was N3.5 trn drawn from PENCOM during this period?
Prof AlukoWhen a person of the status of a state governor makes a statement one ought to take it seriously. However if it is founded on so flawed a premise as that excerpted above then one has to worry whether 'everything is alright'.PENCOM is a public institution that REGULATES activities of PRIVATE SECTOR institutions--Pension fund administrators and Pension fund custodians. PENCOM has neither custody nor control over pension fund contributionsIt is NOT possible to withdraw N3.5 trillion from PENCOM---simply because PENCOM does NOT have N3.5 trillion.If you and/or Oshio can show that anybody withdrew N3.5 trillion from PENCOM I'll pay $1,000 to any charity of your choice no questions askedJoeSent from my iPhoneJust too much speculation! What actually did happen?GMI.--In a message dated 10/8/2015 4:09:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alu...@gmail.com writes:--
My People:Here is what Oshiomhole is quoted to have said:QUOTEYou challenge Pencom and Ministry of Finance, you will discover that over N3.5tn was drawn by the previous government from pension funds to support recurrent expenditure, not to support infrastructure.UNQUOTEAssuming he was quoted correctly - no embellishment or fabrication - there are two issues here:1. First is the very character of MISAPPROPRIATION. If that is what Oshiomhole is hinting at, then misappropriation/misapplication means not spending a particular money the way it was meant to be spent, sometimes by the person who has custody of the money, who may do it under the influence of another person. I am not sure that is what Oshiomhole is stating here. It is therefore trite to say that something CANNOT happen, when in fact the very POSSIBILITY/REALITY of its happening is the ILLEGALITY being hinted at.2. Secondly, and more importantly, is to ask certain questions:(1) Was N3.5 trn drawn from PENCOM during this period?(2) How much of it was invested in INFRASTRUCTURE?(3) Is there ANY other CAPITAL category OUTSIDE of Infrastructure that PENCOM spent part of the money on?If NONE was invested in Infrastructure or any other Capital Project - as Oshiomhole is likely to be hinting - then the ONLY other category that PENCOM must have spent the money on would be RECURRENT - to pay for(A) its (PENCOM) own workers (salaries + allowances)(B) to pay for its own overhead operations(C) to pay for retirees - its primary aim.I believe that is what Oshimhole is hinting at - that the N3.5 trn was not INVESTED to generate more money - maybe beyond interest income from banks - and was used to do (A), (B), (C) above, rather than to include(D) Investment in Infrastructure (Roads, Railway, Power, Water), for which citizens will be required to pay(E) Low-Interest Loans for Education(F) Low-Interest Loan for Agriculture(G) Low-Interest Loans for Manufacturing Industries(H) Conservative Investment in Foreign SecuritiesA successful investment in these will not only DEVELOP the country, but a portion of the return on investments will be ADDED to the income of the retirees via (D) to (G) above.That is what is done all the world over - except in Nigeria apparently - out of fear of corruption? We must rise above that, and be confident that we can put the proper controls.In conclusion, I fully support the conservative use of the trillions of PENCOM in developing our country. Not doing so is ridiculous, and is like that story of the Bible where one man was given a talent and he BURIED it and returned it to its owner who upbraided him, while the others invested theirs, and where given even more money.And there you have it.Bolaji Aluko
On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 10:42 PM, 'Leye Ige' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
"The funds are held by one independent institution while the investment decisions are made by a different private sector entity. All regulated by PENCOM..No Government can use pension funds as before because the funds neither belong to Govt nor controlled by Govt."--Joe Attueyi
(1) The funds need NOT belong to or be controlled by the Government BEFORE the government can access it. The Government appoints whoever will be the directors of PENCOM and associated entities.
(2) The government does NOT have to "use it as before"; that is, simply dipping its hands into it; BUT the government can utilize it via "Investments"--which is what Pension funds are all about-- just that in this case, the "investment" is in recurrent expenditure.
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 10/7/15, Joe Attueyi topc...@yahoo.com [OmoOdua] <Omo...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: [OmoOdua] Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: Jonathan spent N3.5tn pension fund on recurrent expenditure – Oshiomhole
To: Omo...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Omo...@yahoogroups.com, "Segun Sanni therea...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "Oyo State Intellectual Forum" <Oyo-...@yahoogroups.com>, "NAIJA Dream Team Intellectuals" <naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.com>, "Buddies" <Cauc...@yahoogroups.com>, "Ode- Besilu's Group" <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com>, "AfricanWorldForum" <AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Naija News" <TalkN...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <Egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "Unilorin friends" <Universityo...@yahoogroups.com>, "Yan" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Professionals" <capitalmark...@yahoogroups.com>, "Ra'ayi Riga" <raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "Naija...@googlegroups.com" <Naija...@googlegroups.com>, "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2015, 12:29 PM
Post Adeola commission restructuring of
the pension system:
the pension
funds contributed
under the auspices of
the National Pension Commission
(PenCom) are
managed by privately owned Pension Fund
Administrators (PFAs) and kept in custody by
Pension Fund
Custodians
(PFCs).
as Segun
rightly educated those who are interested in knowing how the
pension system currently works in Nigeria. The funds are
held by one independent institution while the investment
decisions are made by a different private sector entity. All
regulated by PENCOM.
No Government can use
pension funds as before because the funds neither belong to
Govt nor controlled by Govt.
Some state governments
have not adopted these pension reforms. Edo is probably one
of them -- which would explain Oshio's
confusion
Joe
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 7, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Leye Ige ige....@yahoo.com
[NIgerianWorldForum] <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
the pension funds contributed
under the auspices of the National Pension Commission
(PenCom) are managed by privately owned Pension Fund
Administrators (PFAs) and kept in custody by Pension
Fund
Custodians (PFCs).
Posted by: Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com>
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| From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum] Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2015 17:12 |
Reply To: AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com |
Cc: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk; africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Naija...@googlegroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ekiti...@yahoogroups.com; Oyo Forum State Intellectual Forum State Intellectual Forum; YanA...@yahoo.com |
Subject: Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [Naijadreamteamintellectuals] Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ... |
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/20151008153838.5886033.62671.93220%40yahoo.com.
| From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [Naijadreamteamintellectuals] Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2015 22:08 Reply To: Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk Cc: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk; africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Naija...@googlegroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ekiti...@yahoogroups.com; Oyo Forum State Intellectual Forum State Intellectual Forum; YanA...@yahoo.com |
Subject: Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [Naijadreamteamintellectuals] Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ... |
Let me break it down. If you say the Fed Govt debt stock was N11 Trillion when Buhari took over, please note that that debt stock is made up of Govt Bonds, Treasury Bills, Unpaid pensions, debts to contractors, debts to banks, foreign debts, etc. How much of of the N11 Trillion is Govt Bonds?Now back to the questions which you've ignored: if pension funds, along with other investors, invest in government debt papers, that justifies your position that government has thus dipped its hands in pension funds? So when banks invest in government bonds, that means to you the government is dipping its hands in depositors' funds too? And when pension funds buy shares, it means those companies are also dipping their hands into the pension funds?And if this is your elementary interpretation of finance, it means the debt paper being issued by the DMO for bailout is also from the pension funds and so, President Buhari too is taking the pension funds?This was the philosophy upon which you wanted to collect $1,000??I think even Oshiomhole would disown this your argument if you try sell it to him as explanation for another one of his funny rants.Please note that Treasury bills have other tenors than 91 days. There are the Open Market Operations (OMO) T-bills of 21 days, 23 days, etc and there are 180-day T-bills and there are 364-day T-bills.
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2015 17:12
Reply To: AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk; africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Naija...@googlegroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ekiti...@yahoogroups.com; Oyo Forum State Intellectual Forum State Intellectual Forum; YanA...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [Naijadreamteamintellectuals] Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ...
You like to engage in irrelevant and avoidable arguments because the total naira denominated public debt as at the time Buhari took over government was in excess of 11trillion naira of which a large chunk was financed through the various gilts issued by the CBN Discount Offce and the Debt Management Office .
Government all over the world increase their public sector borrowing requirements through selling various government instruments to individuals, various institutions and pension funds . Treasury bills have 91 days tenor and a large chunk of the federal government borrowing is raised using this instrument while the Treasury Certificates are for six month or one year tenor and the amount in issue have been increasing over years meaning the government debt continue to increase yearly .There is no crime in government raising debt using money from the pension fund but it doesn't make any economic sense if the fund borrowed is used to finance recurrent expenditure . It's like an unemployed or underemployed man borrowing money to buy beer and expensive dresses instead of using same to create businesses or property that would generate future income . What will happen if the government is broke, how the various PFAs recovered the funds invested in financing expenses ?
From this debate, a new thought has come to my mind ; henceforth fund borrowed from the pension fund institutions must be invested in infrastructure or real estate which the lender could hold in case of future default .Sent from my iPad
| From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum] Sent: Friday, 9 October 2015 07:29 |
Reply To: AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com |
Cc: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [Naijadreamteamintellectuals]; Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [AfricanWorldForum]; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Naija...@googlegroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ekiti...@yahoogroups.com; Oyo Forum State Intellectual Forum State Intellectual Forum; YanA...@yahoo.com |
Subject: Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [Naijadreamteamintellectuals] Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [africanworldforum] On the Matter of Investing PENCOM Funds for National ... |