Dvaita and Advaita

[Chittaranjan Naik]

Here is another post from the good old days (2004 - 2006)...

DVAITA AND ADVAITA

Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah
Om Namah Shivaya

Man aspires to become Brahman. But man is man and Brahman is Brahman and the twain shall never be the same.

No man is Brahman because he is man. And Brahman is Brahman, not man. One thing is not another. Not in a hundred years, not in a million years, not in any measure of Eternity.

It is impossible for man to cross over to become Brahman. Even if a camel were to go through the eye of a needle, man will never be able to cross over to become Brahman. Therefore man shall be left behind.

Adi Shankara revealed to us the Law: he who walks the path shall be a vairagi. He shall have no desire for anything here or hereafter including the world of Brahma (Brahma-lokha). There is naught else that remains. Vairagya detaches the man - and the man is left behind on the Way.

Advaita is not for man. Man is a reflection - a pratibimbha - of God. Man can only be in the likeness of God. There is a similarity between man and God, but never sameness. For man, Dvaita is the philosophy. It cannot be otherwise.

Many a man in the past aspired to be God. Many a man then began speaking that he was God. That is the reason why Sri Madhvacharya came to earth. To show that man can never be God.

Sri Madhvacharya is Brahma (in-waiting), the highest among the jivas. He gave to man the philosophy of Brahman that reveals the highest vision of Brahman that a man may have.

But Sri Shankaracharya is Lord Shiva Himself. He gave to man Death!

This is the Leela of Lord Shiva. He gives the Gift of Advaita to man. But man takes the Gift and returns from the road to Brahman, baffled and perplexed, beaten back again and again by the eternal barriers on the way. Rudra does not allow him to pass. He is the eternal barrier to man. Man shall burn to ashes in the Fire of Rudra before he can pass.

But strange is this Leela of Lord Shiva. He gives Advaita to man even though man is never able to understand it. Why does Lord Shiva give Advaita to man?

Advaita is the Homa. It is the Great Fire in which man shall immolate himself. The immolation of man is the Self realising Advaita.

The dying man begins to see the sameness of Shiva Seeing through his Self, and the Shiva who is in all of creation. That man shall die a death so deep that man shall be dead forever and only the sameness of Shiva is.

The revelation of Advaita is the arising of God in the dying of man. That dying is no ordinary dying. It is a Celebration!

Lord Shiva Celebrates Death! He roams in the cremation grounds and wears the ashes of the dead on His body! That is His Grace!

Om Tat Sat

[davesx]

Sri Chittaji PraNams -

Superb post!

The longing in man's heart is like a moth seeking out an open flame.

The moth is deeply attracted to the flame but the one thing it can never have is the experience of the flame for its demise is certain.

So the moth’s longing can only be fulfilled by dying and merging into the flame.

Similarly Shiva's bonfire annihilates all man's thoughts, ideologies and experiences  revealing his primordial Unborn essence.

Namah Shivaya!

Dave

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[Chittaranjan Naik]

Namaste Sri Dave-ji,

Thank you for your kind words.  Your analogy of the moth and fire is very apt. 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Daveji,

Are we not in the Turiya State in our deep sleep every night?

Best

SKB

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[rsm...@yahoo.com]

Namaste, Chitthaji,

Does man aspire to become Brahman? How can he become, when already his essence is Brahman itself.

Hope you remember me. Long back we had exchanged some views in yahoo group.

With kind regards...

R.S.Mani...

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[Chittaranjan Naik]

Namaste Sri Mani-ji,

It's been quite some time since we interacted but yes I do certainly remember you....

"Does man aspire to become Brahman? How can he become, when already his essence is Brahman itself."

Of course the essence of a jiva is Brahman itself. The expression "man aspires to become Brahman" is just a manner of speaking. Nothing to disagree with here....

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[suresh srinivasamurthy]

Dear Sri Dave-ji,

The moth is already in the fire and but it simply does not know! Everything is continuously being cooked in the fire of death 🙂

Regards,
Suresh

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To: advaitin <adva...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [advaitin] Dvaita and Advaita

 

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[davesx]

Namaste Sunil-ji,

 

Turyia is a dimensionless reality that can only be implied in the waking state and merely stated as "unutterable, wordless, peaceful and nondual" in Mandhukya (and equivalent in Panchadasi and traditional Vedanta) and relative to deep sleep (Prajna) it is said to be ever Seeing.

Shankara says in the Bhashya of BS "Even though sentient beings merge in Nirguna Brahman during sleep, only those who know this during waking can be said to have realized It."

Hence it can be also implied as 'wakeful-sleep' (jagrat-sushupti or nanavu-tuyil) because it is  a thought-free state like deep sleep  but simultaneously wakeful and peaceful, transcending and including the Avastha Trayam or mind states,

It is therefore Sat-Chit-Ananda. (to be continued....)

Peace

Dave

In relation Prajna knows neither himself nor others, neither truth nor untruth. But that Turiya is ever the all seer

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Daveji,

You were trying to picturize the end as it happens to the moth running into the fire and ends in  a painful death, albeit, only momentarily, a sort of frightening situation due to ignorance. But for the jnani, that is not the situation. A Jivanmukta does not suffer like that, though one has to live with the fruits of the prarabdha karma, unless that karma is neutralized in other possible ways. What I mean to say that the end for a jnani, who lives his life appropriate to that jnana, can be similar to the attainment of bliss and not like that of the moth rushing into fire, due to ignorance.

Cheers

skb

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[davesx]

Namaste Sunil-ji: the illustration of the moth and fire is just an analogy. Don’t get carried away associating it unnecessarily with physical death and pain although certain elements of the  brain and nervous system may undergo unique transformation.

This breakthrough is an acausal switchover which is unimaginable, destroying the old self-centered identity and from the burnt ashes the metaphorical Phoenix arises fresh and new.

As such the ending of the old is imagined as utter terror by the Jiva or ego-structure. So jiva safeguards and protects its turf by maintaining an inner monologue, continuously stringing up ideas as I am somebody, I am this, I am that, I am a great scholar with libraries condensed in my head (what a burden) :-)

If by gyana and Shiva’s grace this automatic defensive activity comes to an end, you - the jiva or self identity - collapses and one is no longer separate, apart or independent from the Totality - Brahman. 

Shanti Om

Dave

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[davesx]

Namaste Advaitins -

To conclude this post and clear up a common misunderstanding, even though it was stated that the house of cards -- the jiva -- collapses, that simply means jiva falls into its natural rhythm; a subtle difference from Mano Nasha, the utter death or destruction of the mind said to be the view of Ramana Maharishi for example.

My take on this breakthrough is that the Jiva dissolves in Silence and remains in communion with this boundless ocean of Serenity until an intimation arises based on a functional demand. At this juncture there is a spontaneous inspired action whereby the jiva reconstitutes, thinks/acts and returns once again to its natural residence of Peace and quietude free from mentation and dualistic perception that divides the Infinite Reality.

So the Vedantic Dvaita Jagadgurus like Madhavacharya, Vallabaha of PushtiMarga et al. are quite correct in stating that the Jiva is completely dependent and has an intimate  instrumental relationship with Paramatman.

Shankara and the Upanishadic lineage of Advaita gurus are also right in pointing out that the momentary jiva is mithya and Silence is one's true Svabhava identical to ParaBrahman -- That which is wordless, inconceivable, inexplicable and ineffable.

Both Sampradayas are actually complementary, unopposed and not in conflict for those Seers of clear vision.

Shanti Om!

dave

[suresh srinivasamurthy]

Namaste Sri Dave-ji,

<

So the Vedantic Dvaita Jagadgurus like Madhavacharya, Vallabaha of PushtiMarga et al. are quite correct in stating that the Jiva is completely dependent and has an intimate  instrumental relationship with Paramatman.

Shankara and the Upanishadic lineage of Advaita gurus are also right in pointing out that the momentary jiva is mithya and Silence is one's true Svabhava identical to ParaBrahman -- That which is wordless, inconceivable, inexplicable and ineffable.

Both Sampradayas are actually complementary, unopposed and not in conflict for those Seers of clear vision.

>

Thank you very much for the above conclusion. This is really a breakthrough understanding and this harmony among various vedAntic schools is what I am aiming for. 

VedAntins from all traditions can come under the one umbrella of One unknowable, unthinkable, all pervading and indwelling Brahman manifesting as the entire universe of infinite names/forms. If jagat is the word, Brahman is the meaning.

Truth and Dharma (Shaiva and Vaishnava) both gain validity in this universal Vedic view and in the words of Sri Rajiv Malhotra, this view can consume and digest all kinds of world views and also acts as a "poison pill" for all "break India/Hindu/Abrahamic (that which is opposed to Brahman?)" forces 🙂 

Namaste,
Suresh

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Subject: Re: [advaitin] Dvaita and Advaita

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear friends,

I respect all the worshippers of Vishnu, i.e., the Krishna-bhaktas as I am also a devotee of Lord Krishna. To my knowledge, respected Shri Madhvacharyaji did not call his  teachings as Vedantic. KIndly correct me if I am wrong.

The last time I did criticize the Dvaita guru Shri Raghavendra Swamiji for deserting his wife, who had to starve and commit suicide. I wish to add that later on Shri Raghavendra swami realized his mistake and repented and performed the shraddha and the needed rituals for the sad-gati of his wife. "To Err Is Human",  so the adage goes. Once one seriously repents for the wrongs done in the past, one's sins get expiated. Did not Valmiki, the dacoit, change and become a great saint and give us the Ramayana.

Regards,

skb

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[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

PraNAms - Relating to the discussion on Vishishtadvaita, now we are celebrating the Dharnurmaasam or Margazhi maasam. In our house, we play every day my father's translation of the Pasurams and was sung by the Kuchipudi famous Smt. Kanaka Durga. My wife got the pasurams recorded in the same style as MS. We get up early every day and do puja and offer naivedyam - normally Pongal is done on these days, and play my father's translation of Shree Godadevi's Tiruppavai. 

My wife, Mrinalini, gave a presentation on Dhanurmaasam or Margazhi maasam, and when Shree Andal Tiruppavai is chanted. My father had written extensive commentary on Tiruppavai in Telugu, and it was published in 1991 by TTD as Meli Nomu. My father was a staunch Vishishtadvaitin. I have translated his commentary on the first pasuram that was included in my book ‘Self and the Supreme’, published recently by Indic Academy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE1E-4EmkcM&feature=share...

My wife’s Kalamandapam dance school is presenting one paasuram each day. The dancer is Kumari Chinmayee Bala – who was a student-teacher of Kalamandapam and she choreographing the dances herself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkptfNiioB8&fbclid=IwAR3uF1RnhJD3NTeJPGMtUw1Mt2XbDH_2V5gafNIFrbgmyChyajz5vsl3lHE. 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste Sadanandaji,

I have one query about Vishishtadvaita and hope you won't mind helping me with a comparison as to how the Vishishtadvaita, Dvaita and Advaita followers observe the two days : the Kartika Shukla-Ekadashi and the Margashirsha Shukla-Ekadashi. The former is called the "Prabodhini Ekadashi" or the "BhagavadGita Prabodhini Ekadshi", as on this day the Bhagavad Gita Upadesha was given by Lord Krishna, and it is believed that observation of this Ekadashi  is helpful for going beyond the cycle of birth and death. The second one is also a great Ekadashi and it is called the Mokshada Ekadasi, which as the name conveys, is helpful in attaining liberation.

Regards

Sunil KB

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[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Sunilji - PraNAms

I have no idea. 

ekadasi - is 10 + 1. 

A few years ago I had written something on this and maybe in one of my books.

The ten stands for the five jnaanedriyas and five karmendriyas. The one which enlivens these and that which is beyond these is the one who that is the supreme. Hence ekaadashi is a special day to contemplate by controlling the ten indriyas - most important is the tongue - which is involved in both tasting and talking - jnaan and karma indriaya. Hence one has to devote his time on that day contemplating on the one what enlivens these indriyas.

That is Ekadasi if one performs properly.

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

From the point of view of the basics, you had hit the nail on the head. When the advaitins of Lord Buddha's time went to him and asked if it is really possible to realize oneness with the Brahman, the Lord very gently,  named all the ripus one by one and asked them if the Brahman has any of these ripus ( I am not exactly using his words and his terminology). They replied in the negative. Then the Lord asked those advaitins, as to would it not be necessary for them  to get rid of those ripus, if they wished to realize oneness with the Brahman. They got the message. Then the procedural parts started.

However my query is like that of a common man being curious to know as to how the three schools observe the two Ekadashis I named. Of course, a commoner may possibly guess that the advaitins, whose endeavour is to cross the cycle of birth and death, may prefer to observe both the Ekadashis. My query to your goodself wasm as you are an insider to both the schools. In my own case, my mother was from a Vaishnava family and my father was from a shaiva cum shakta family and my wife was from a vegetarian Saraswat brahmin family from Karnataka / Maharashtra, and their math is affiliated to the Shringeri math, and we observe all the customs. In childhood, we fasted on all the Purnimas and the Amavashyas, as well as in the Janmashtami and Shiva-Ratri.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Jai Shri Krishna

Sunil K B

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[Raghav Kumar]

Namaste Sada ji

Dhanurmasam is an evocative time for many of us including the telugu speaking devotees.

There is a telugu translation of the thiruppavai which forms a part of the All India Radio dhanurmasam programme. Is it by any chance the translation by your father?
Or is the telugu verse translation also by the expounder himself, i.e., Sri Santhana-gopalachariar?

It's from 22:50 of this link

https://youtu.be/74Oq1KJGnag

Om

Raghav

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[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Sunilji - PraNAms

As I understand, in some places they follow the Lunar calendar, and in some places, they follow the solar calendar and that makes the difference in terms of which ekadasi they give importance to.  We find this in terms of the Telugu calendar vs the Tamil calendar. 

The best thing is to follow both since in most of the Sri Vaishnava households they follow the Tamil Culture. Note that I am separating Sri Vaishnava from other Vaishnavas, where the culture and traditions differ. Note that Hebbar Iyengars are different from other Iyengars. 

Also, we have vadahali and tengalai divisions - one follows, for example, maarjaalanyaaya and the other follows the markatakanyaaya. In the maarjaalanyaaya, the sharanaagati or surrender is like a kitten surrendering to cat-mother - where it is the responsibility of the mother cat to take care of its kittens all the time. In the case of the baby-monkey, the baby has to hold on to the mother all the time as the mother monkey jumps from one tree to the other. One has to hold on to the feet of the Lord all the time. Of course, there are other differences, particularly in the role of Mother Goddess Lakshmi for Moksha. 

Swami Tejomayanandaji once said that the surrender should involve one hand holding the Lord's feet and the other hand under the feet of the Lord, so that neither the Lord can run away from you nor you can run away from the Lord. 

Actually in Advaita Sharanagati is complete only when one ego is fully surrendered at the altar of the totality. 

Hari Om!

Sadananda 

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Raghavji - PraNAms

I have heard of Shree Santhana Gopalachar. 

No. My father's version is mostly done in Dharmavaram (Anantapur dist) in temples. My wife got them recorded and one of our plans is to make copies and distribute them freely to all the temples to play. 

My father had written extended commentary (close to 14 volumes) on Vedanta Deshikas Rahasyatrayasaara (original in Tamil). It still has to be published. We are way behind.

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[davesx]

Namaste Sri SureshAcharya,

Glad it resonated and connected some dots.

Shanti Om

Dave

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