2.21 O Partha, he who knows this One as indestructible, eternal, birthless and undecaying, how and whom does that person kill, or whom does he cause to be killed! [This is not a question but only an emphatic denial.-Tr.]
…
अविक्रिय एव सन् बुद्धिवृत्त्यविवेकविज्ञानेन अविद्यया उपलब्धा आत्मा कल्प्यते, एवमेव आत्मानात्मविवेकज्ञानेन बुद्धिवृत्त्या विद्यया असत्यरूपयैव परमार्थतः अविक्रिय एव आत्मा विद्वानुच्यते । विदुषः………
Shankara says that this vRtti is not absolutely real, but unreal: asatyA. This is no doubt vidyA, right / samyag jnanam.
Translation by Swami Gambhirananda: What is highlighted is the translation of the Bhashya for the component 'vRtti' that has for its content the Discriminative knowledge:
As on account of the lack of knowledge of the distinction between the Self and the modifications of the intellect, the Self, though verily immutable, is imagined through ignorance to be the perceiver of objects like sound etc. presented by the intellect etc., in this very way, the Self, which in reality is immutable, is said to be the 'knower' because of Its association with the knowledge of the distinction between the Self and non-Self, which (knowledge) is a modification of the intellect.
Anandagiri says: The Atman itself, in association with the Discriminative knowledge-bearing vRtti, is called the 'Jnani'. (In contrast, the Atman itself, in association with the ignorance-propelled illusory connection with objects is known as the knower of objects.
तेनात्मोपलब्धा कल्प्यते। तच्चाविद्याप्रयुक्तमिथ्यासंबन्धनिबन्धनं तथैवाध्यासिकसंबन्धेन ब्रह्मात्मैक्याभिव्यञ्जकवाक्योत्थबुद्धिवृत्तिद्वारा विद्वानात्मा व्यपदिश्यते नच मिथ्यासंबन्धेन पारमार्थिकाविक्रियत्वविहतिरस्तीत्यर्थः।
Thus, we have in the Bhashyam an irrefutable instance of akhaNDAkAra vRtti stated.
warm regards
subbu
praNAms
Hare Krishna
In this 2-21 bhAshya, it is quite evident that there is no vidyAvidya vyavahAra in Atman and both avidyA and vidyA just mental modification. One who is having ajnAna called as ajnAni and the one who is having jnAna called as jnAni, both are in the sphere of avidyA only and this type of avidyA influence happens only when there is reality transfer (adhyAsa). With this the upasiddhAnta arises that avidyA is NOT the potency of the self and it does not have the power to cover (encompass) the self itself 😊 mUlAvidyAvAda goes for a big six here 😊. In the really real nature (satyasya satya) of the brahman / self there are absolutely no vyAvahArik dealings like ignorance and knowledge. It is always nitya Shuddha, buddha mukta svarUpa Atman.
Anyway, brahmAkAra vrutti ( brahma who is nirAkAra but vrutti what is jnAni going to get is brahma-AkAra likewise akhanda is nirAkAra but it is also explained as akhanda-AkAra vrutti, reminds me something like square circle thing 😊) Don’t we have better words to express this Samyak drushti or Atmaikatva vidyA?? Anyway vrutti happens in antaHkaraNa but what is this antaHkaraNa?? You prabhuji-s pose this question to me when I said avidyA is antaHkaraNa dOsha, now you are arguing like anything as if antaHkaraNa is a bifurcated compartment which can accommodate avidyA and vidyA whenever it is fed 😊
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar
Subbuji – PraNAms
Requesting some clarification:
Discriminative knowledge involves nitya anitya vastu viveka – When a thought arises in the mind, it is illumined by the light of consciousness for me to have the knowledge of the thought. Hence, discriminative involves leaving the thought (while the thought is there), shifting the mind’s attention to that light of consciousness and claiming that I am that. Hence, Kena says ‘pratibodha viditam matam’ – it is revealed in every thought.
One cannot perceive a thoughtless mind – as Swami Satprakashanandaji says in his Methods of Knowledge (P.94) –‘mind (without vrutti) is imperceivable.’
Hence, we need a perceptual thought to use Viveka to keep the mind shifting from the anitya to nitya -That constant shift – do you call this akhandaakaara vritti? – I give an example - one cannot recognize the presence of sunlight where the moon is if the moon is not there. We need the moon to reflect the sunlight. Discriminative intellect then involves shifting mental attention to moonlight, which is nothing but sunlight, leaving the mind's attention from the moon.
Meditation is then leaving the perceived objects and shifting the mind’s attention to the light of consciousness because of which every perception is known. Is that ‘akhanda aakaara vritti’? Would like to hear your clarification.
Hari Om!
Sada
On Monday, February 10, 2025 at 04:28:04 PM GMT+5:30, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
…
अविक्रिय एव सन् बुद्धिवृत्त्यविवेकविज्ञानेन अविद्यया उपलब्धा आत्मा
कल्प्यते, *एवमेव आत्मानात्मविवेकज्ञानेन बुद्धिवृत्त्या विद्यया *
* असत्यरूपयैव* परमार्थतः अविक्रिय एव आत्मा विद्वानुच्यते । विदुषः………
Shankara says that this vRtti is not absolutely real, but unreal: asatyA.
This is no doubt vidyA, right / samyag jnanam.
Translation by Swami Gambhirananda: What is highlighted is the translation
of the Bhashya for the component 'vRtti' that has for its content the
Discriminative knowledge:
As on account of the lack of knowledge of the distinction between the Self
and the modifications of the intellect, the Self, though verily immutable,
is imagined through ignorance to be the perceiver of objects like sound
etc. presented by the intellect etc., in this very way,* the Self, which in
reality is immutable, is said to be the 'knower' because of Its association
with the knowledge of the distinction between the Self and non-Self, which
(knowledge) is a modification of the intellect.*
Anandagiri says: The Atman itself, in association with the Discriminative
knowledge-bearing vRtti, is called the 'Jnani'. (In contrast, the Atman
itself, in association with the ignorance-propelled illusory connection
with objects is known as the knower of objects.
तेनात्मोपलब्धा कल्प्यते। तच्चाविद्याप्रयुक्तमिथ्यासंबन्धनिबन्धनं
तथैवाध्यासिकसंबन्धेन* ब्रह्मात्मैक्याभिव्यञ्जकवाक्योत्थबुद्धिवृत्तिद्वारा
विद्वानात्मा व्यपदिश्यते* नच मिथ्यासंबन्धेन
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/1371666169.5802900.1739196719066%40mail.yahoo.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKk0Te3NvL8u4dycumGsK%2BwRwyjOwupAanBjT5TLNLgDQLu7Ug%40mail.gmail.com.
The purpose of the akhaNDAkAravRtti is not the revelation of Brahman - for Brahman is self-effulgent, rather it is the removal of avidyA, which obscures the true nature of the Atma as Brahman.
praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
Hare Krishna
I agree with this. brahmAvagati is not the result of AAV OTOH attaining brahman or realization of our svarUpa is just the removal of avidyA, apart from removal of avidyA there is no second obstruction that comes in our way…and shAstra too which is ultimate pramANa to realize brahman does not objectify the brahman to have the vrutti on THAT. Ofcourse we all agree that brahman is NOT an object of any action and at the same time for the pedagogical purpose we say shAstra is the means of knowing IT. But shAstra’s scope ends with wiping off the distinctions superimposed on brahman by avidyA and shAstra does not teach the brahman as such and such a thing. It is svayaM siddha, svayam prakAshita an Aprameya aparOksha tattva.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/AM7PR06MB6625DBA81B00A7202123453E84FD2%40AM7PR06MB6625.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/ac7c9275-c995-462d-914b-e0bebed53ae4n%40googlegroups.com.
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/advaitin/07HAF2za1kw/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKqm3-q%3DSRHno2WfcjVoTFtMsJ4g%3D3%3DESFy5vZbW_GKRrAyP%3Dw%40mail.gmail.com.
Namaste Rammohan ji,
As per my understanding in the Advaitic view, the satyatva / jnyAnatva / anantatva cannot be a pointer to anything other than Atman/Brahman. It is very much experiential too as Atman does not need any external pointer to prove its existence.
If satyajnyAnAnandamaya Atman is a pointer to Brahman, then it results in Dvaita/V.Advaita (as Atman as a pratibimba / shareera is a pointer to the Bimba / AtmAntaryAmi paramAtma).
So IMHO, the symbol and the symbolized are essentially one in the Advaitic view. This is also very much in the Shankara bhAshya for "ShAstrayOnitvAt" - where the AchArya teaches Brahman is the origin for shAstra itself (which is unique to Shankara bhAshya).
It would be great if other scholars could correct me if what is stated above is incorrect.
Regards,
Suresh
________________________________
From: adva...@googlegroups.com <adva...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rammohan Subramaniam <rammohan.s...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2025 3:18 AM
To: advaitin <adva...@googlegroups.com>
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/AM7PR06MB6625DBA81B00A7202123453E84FD2%40AM7PR06MB6625.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/AM7PR06MB6625DBA81B00A7202123453E84FD2%40AM7PR06MB6625.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAL34aE%3DG%3Dv_dVmwUD%3D9xpuDwX%2BGzubV7jWgSNAuSzJ6RcJKUiA%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAL34aE%3DG%3Dv_dVmwUD%3D9xpuDwX%2BGzubV7jWgSNAuSzJ6RcJKUiA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/TY0PR0101MB45168889096B70E0B4AC0D34A9FD2%40TY0PR0101MB4516.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/TY0PR0101MB45168889096B70E0B4AC0D34A9FD2%40TY0PR0101MB4516.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/TY0PR0101MB45168132BB6AE47ECC4962C5A9FF2%40TY0PR0101MB4516.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/TY0PR0101MB45168132BB6AE47ECC4962C5A9FF2%40TY0PR0101MB4516.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:advaitin+u...@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/ac7c9275-c995-462d-914b-e0bebed53ae4n%40googlegroups.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/ac7c9275-c995-462d-914b-e0bebed53ae4n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
_______________________________________________
Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
To unsubscribe or change your options:
https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
For assistance, contact:
listm...@advaita-vedanta.org
Very nicely explained. The last paragraph is elucidated in the Shaastra with the analogy of someone seeking to know the moon. There the expression prakRShTaH prakAshaH chandraH is used to distinctly show the svarUpam of chandra, which is what the seeker is interested in knowing.
regards
subbu
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAL34aEkcegJwGOME7ceqGfMopGNQCeFW_VOHS%2B260tSD8BEy-A%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAL34aEkcegJwGOME7ceqGfMopGNQCeFW_VOHS%2B260tSD8BEy-A%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAAz9PvFO31xzPG9ehFM3L7JuUA98hWLvxCCPeSkh77Heh%2BbeEA%40mail.gmail.com.