Fwd: [Advaita-l] Binary nature of Jnana

[V Subrahmanian]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: V Subrahmanian <v.subra...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Binary nature of Jnana
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>

We are discussing Bhagavan Ramana's enlightenment on the very day he is said to have had it:

This day, 126 years ago (46020 days),
17 July 1896..., in Madurai,

16 year old Venkatraman,
faced an experience with death,
and in a flash,
He attained Enlightenment and Immortality.

This is that room where it all happened.
Where boy Venkatraman
became Sage Sri Ramana Maharshi.  

See image in Advaitin Google groups.  

On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 3:01 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

Namaste Raghav ji

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022, 09:01 Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l, <
adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

>
> The effect of earlier janma's sAdhanas (this effect being short of the
> pramA) is stored as samskAra. This samskAra in a later janma triggers the
> arising of "the essence of the akhaNDa vAkyArtha" which in turn produces
> pramA. I understand you to be talking of such a 2-step onset.
>
Yes, I had this in mind.

>
> >
> One question that arises here in this 2-step process is whether the
> "essence of the akhaNDa-vAkyArtha" which functions as the sAxAt pramANa in
> the later janma is in the form of atleast a few recollected words (shAbdam)
> or it can be without any recollected words at all?
>

It need not be the recollection of the words, it need not even be a
recollection that such a knowledge is from words - but if sufficient
sAdhana has happened  the vAkyArtha can arise as an akhaNDArtha. It is
shAbda not jnAtosatI, but svarUpasatI - ie it has arisen from shabda, but
it is not known to the individual as having risen from shabda.


> Because if the "essence" is not shAbda it's not clear how the following two
> are different.
>
> 1. "Essence of akhaNDA vAkyArtha" being the pramANa in the later janma.
> 2. the samskAra (of all sAdhanas short of pramA) itself is sufficient to
> mediate and trigger the delayed onset of the pramA at the appropriate time.
>
> Like I said if 1. involves shabda recollection while 2. does not, then 1.
> stands distinguished it from 2. Otherwise both would be called
> smaraNatmaka.
>
It could be shabdArtha recollection short of the akhaNDa-mahAvAkyArtha
(e.g. tat padArtha, tvam padArtha, or a saprakAraka jnAna of the
mahAvAkya). If one has a lot of experience identifying the lakshyArtha of
the tat and tvam padArtha, and practicing to identify with the lakshyArtha,
practicing seeing them as one, but has stopped short of knowing them as
one, that samskAra can later trigger the instantaneous experience of "I am
all this".

Also, for the jnAna to be shAbda it is sufficient if the meaning has arisen
from words, one need not know that the meaning has arisen from words.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan
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[Sundar Rajan]

Namaskar,

> >
> One question that arises here in this 2-step process is whether the
> "essence of the akhaNDa-vAkyArtha" which functions as the sAxAt pramANa in
> the later janma is in the form of atleast a few recollected words (shAbdam)
> or it can be without any recollected words at all?
>

From my recollection of reading about His early life, Sri Ramana was not even aware of the term Brahman or realization, rather when He read the books the descriptions seemed to match his 'experience' or 'state'. It is doubtful He recollected Maha Vakyas.

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