Pūjāri by Birth (Jāti), or by Qualification (Guṇa)?

[Prashant Parikh]

Question: Is one a Purohit by birth (Jāti), or by qualification (Guṇa)?
Answer: The qūestion itself is a false binary. Both need to be factored in. It cannot be "not by birth at all", nor can it be "by birth alone".... Yet, both the propositions above are unequal.

1. The objective approach in my view is that some preference is given and will continue to be given to birth, but the doors are not closed to inspired individuals as permitted to participate in these activities by valid sampradayas.

2. It is not unreasonable to assume or even accept that an individual born in a traditional brāhmin family may possess attributes that qualify him to be a purohit due to background / environment /exposure It is also not unreasonable to assume that an individual born outside of the traditional context can be proficient at the same job, though speaking *probabilistically*, both outcomes are not 50-50%.

3. Obviously, people brought up in a traditional context will have an edge as purohits, just as a person born in a Gujarati family will *more likely* have an edge over Gujarati, compared to his Assamese friend. Though in *rarer* instances it is possible the Assamese friend can also attain greater scholarship over Gujarati. I would like to place emphasis on the words 'rarer' and 'more likely' to convey that those exceptions do not define the rule but are to be accommodated all the same.

4. The argument against Jāti boils down to the same mistaken Activist notion that a person born to privilege (call it wealth, call it first-world vs third-world, call it male vs female, call it whatever) somehow must not make good use of that privilege. In the context of Purohitas, Brāhmanas do enjoy a privilege, and yet one can recognize that fact without assigning exclusivity to that privilege, and acknowledging a balance, however skewed it may be in one direction.

5. Lastly, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, there is a component of Karma involved in both- being born to a traditional family and enjoying that privilege, vs being born to a non-traditional non-brāhmin family, and having a strong inclination toward the pursuit due to again past karma janya samskara.

To deny Jāti is to deny Prārabdha Karma. To deny Guṇa (qualification) is to deny Āgāmi Karma. Let's stop denying karma and taking on a partial view of the world based on our Rāgas and Dveshas. ____

EXTRA: There was a question of whether this would only apply to Brahmana professions. No, this was just an example, the rest can be extrapolated to the other varnas, too. There are barriers to entry in any given market, in any given profession. And not all of it should be deemed as unfair, because moats do exist. Children of actors have a better chance of making it in films. Children of businessmen (think Mukesh Ambani) will have a better entry point and support when it comes to launching their own business. Same with Ministers. Likewise, and even more so highlighted in the case of children of traditional brāhmin parents who perform pūjas for a living, they, by all means, will be in a better spot to take on the ordained role of purohits/pujaris. Family exposure in this particular role cannot be undermined. One can still learn business, government affairs, medicine, craftwork etc from various sources, but vaidika karmas can only be taught through family tradition or in veda pāthshālās, and these skills are not easily accessible as some of the other skills are. I'm not arguing for what should be the case, only that it is absurd to rebel against the fact that children of Pujāris have an edge over performing Pūja. Of course they will. P.S. for those wondering, I'm a Vaishya by Jāti. Will follow up with more in a subsequent post. Harih Om

[Praveen R. Bhat]

Namaste Prashant ji,

This topic has been discussed umpteen times on both of the lists, but looks like it has been a long while since it resurfaced, thanks to all sorts of people being forcibly appointed as temple priests in TN and elsewhere! 

Although I agree with the most part with what you have written, I disagree with "to deny guNa is to deny AgAmi karma" for the simple reason that AgAmi karma goes and joins sanchita from which prArabdha is carved out only after the end of current life. That is to say that varNa (what you call jAti) can change only in the next janma based on current AgAmi karma.

Next, if a person does karma across sva-varNa, there may be even superior laukika phala due to expertise (be it rare or not), but there won't be any adRShTa phala (and in some cases, pApa may accrue)! For example, a non-brAhmaNa purohita may gain lot of fame, awards, dakShiNA, following, etc, but his karma will not yield adRShTa phala for the yajamAna.A flip example can be of a brAhmaNa soldier who may grow in the military ranks with great positions, awards, salary, respect, etc, but dying on the battlefield won't lead him to svarga.

gurupAdukAbhyAm,
--Praveen R. Bhat
/* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one know That, owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */

[Praveen R. Bhat]

Apologies; I forgot to add two Gita shlokas to drive home these points:

श्रेयान्स्वधर्मो विगुणः परधर्मात्स्वनुष्ठितात्। स्वधर्मे निधनं श्रेयः परधर्मो भयावहः (3.35)
यतः प्रवृत्तिर्भूतानां येन सर्वमिदं ततम्। स्वकर्मणा तमभ्यर्च्य सिद्धिं विन्दति मानवः (18.46)

[V Subrahmanian]

Praveen ji, to what you said, may be added 'a brahmana male'.  For the vocation of purohit is now practiced by women too.  

regards

subbu

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[Prashant Parikh]

Thank you, Praveen ji. Your explanation definitely sounds reasonable, 

A question I do have is with the absconding of the traditional brahmana duties, and with fewer and fewer takers for the ordained jAti roles, how do we see this niche being filled unless we (for lack of a better word) induct those genuinely interested who may be qualified or may attain that qualification in due course? 

I'd also appreciate if you could weigh in on the following thoughts that I had shared on a different forum. Please see below:

The determination of one's own Adhikāra, is best left to the Sampradāyavit Guru in whom one has Śraddhā. I believe when one becomes an activist for or against this Adhikāra, especially as a general recommendation to the public, it is predominantly driven by our biases, and this creates a pressure in us to rebel against the accepted protocol by seeking exceptions and extrapolating them as rules, which is overstretching one's ability to provide a social commentary on the subject when that decision is never ours to take, but an extremely individualized Upadeśa given from one's guru to 'oneself'. Not to 'another self'.

Taking a personal example- I am a Jāti Vaishya (well, technically born to a Vaiśya father and Brāhmin mother, but my Guru personalized the upadeśa and said I should follow the patrilineal svadharma). And I have no qualms in being deemed unqualified to perform yajnas. I can always defer that responsibility to Brāhmanas to do so. In fact, as a Vaiśya, my constant attempt is to live up to my Jāti dharma by engaging in wealth creation activities and seeking new opportunities of investing in businesses. At some point in life when I had no better ideas, I even considered setting up a small store and hiring a storekeeper just for the sake of upholding my Vaiśya duties.

Also, in answer to my question on this subject, my Guru did convey that Jati takes Praadhaanya in Karma Kānḍa and Guna takes Prādhānya in Jñāna Kānḍa. I take the Guru Upadeśa as Prasādam, even if it means overriding some of our tendencies that may flow in the opposite direction

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[Praveen R. Bhat]

On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 8:29 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Praveen ji, to what you said, may be added 'a brahmana male'.  For the vocation of purohit is now practiced by women too.  

regards

subbu

But of course, Subbuji; I used the example as an upalakShaNa.

Kind rgds,
--Praveen R. Bhat

[Praveen R. Bhat]

Namaste Prashantji,

On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 9:09 PM Prashant Parikh <prashan...@gmail.com> wrote:

A question I do have is with the absconding of the traditional brahmana duties, and with fewer and fewer takers for the ordained jAti roles, how do we see this niche being filled unless we (for lack of a better word) induct those genuinely interested who may be qualified or may attain that qualification in due course? 

The absconding is for survival. You are surely aware of specific targeting of brAhmaNas in some states in India across decades. There has been no state support for varNAshrama vyavasthA due to invaders' interest, votebank politics, etc. For over a couple of decades, brAhmaNa purohitas don't even get brides in many parts of India! These are facts and this is only the beginning of Kaliyuga. Nonetheless, there is no solution for this, unless there is mass-movement, funded by the rich and righteous and without political opposition at the very least, if not pushed politically. In other words, it is not going to happen. Now, trying to get someone else to fill in the gap may be possible, but IMHO, the same motivations to induce the genuinely interested would suffice to induce the ones having adhikAra too! There is simply no support in that direction though, due to aforementioned reasons.

 

I'd also appreciate if you could weigh in on the following thoughts that I had shared on a different forum. Please see below:

Also, in answer to my question on this subject, my Guru did convey that Jati takes Praadhaanya in Karma Kānḍa and Guna takes Prādhānya in Jñāna Kānḍa. I take the Guru Upadeśa as Prasādam, even if it means overriding some of our tendencies that may flow in the opposite direction

I agree with almost everything you said, with a rider that although guNa takes prAdhAnya in jnAnakANDa, the approach to jnAnakANDa itself has rules extending from karmakANDa. Yes, the adhikAritva varies, but still the adhikAritva for jnAnakANDa is built over the adhikAritva of karmakANDa in the earlier part of life. At least, on Shankarajayanti, I would stress this point as mentioned in the bhAShyas. Everyone has adhikAra for mokSha but not necessarily in any part of Vedas, be it jnAnakANDa. There are prakaraNagranthas based on jnAnakANDa to avoid the pitfalls of misinterpreting jnAnakANDa proper as completely independent of rules of karmakANDa. That said, I prefer not to discuss this further since it can be a very specific exemption in some cases by the Guru, but I have seen such instructions treated by many as a rule that extends to everyone! 

gurupAdukAbhyAm.

[putran M]

Namaskaram,

A bit tangential to this topic but related in terms of the internal opposition to traditional religion. I am attaching a couple of conversations with 2 people in my family-friend group. They are both pro-Hinduism and anti-tradition and I responded as well as I could. It gives a window into the anti-traditional tarka and criticism coming from people of traditional backgrounds (as per what they think is traditionalism).

thollmelukaalkizhu

[putran M]

 They are both pro-Hinduism and anti-tradition and I responded as well as I could.

The May 2022 antagonist is strictly and formally "anti-traditionalist"; the March 2020 is somewhat of a mix but his perspective follows his given arguments. They both however think 'traditional religion' compromises Hinduism's survival etc.

[putran M]

Namaskaram, this was forwarded in whatsapp. I got some doubts about the writer being Muslim but the message is powerful.

Quote

One muslim writer has slapped the Hindu community through this article.

Your married women have stopped wearing sari. Who has stopped them ? We didn't do it.We muslims are not responsible for this.Isn't  true ?

Tilak on your forehead was your identify once upon a time. You people used to consider empty forehead as inauspicious & a sign of mourning.Not only you gents have stopped wearing tilak before leaving the house, your women too have left this practice of applying tilak on their forehead in the name of fashion & modernism. How is Muslims responsible for this ?

You people have replaced your traditional ceremonies with birthday , anniversary celebrations.Where is our muslim's mistake in this ?

In our community when a child learns to walk, he holds his father's fingers & goes to Maszid for Ibaadad / Namaaz & considers Ibaadad/ Namaaz as his lifelong duty.... You people yourselves have stopped even  looking at temples.Even if one goes it is only for 5 - 10 minutes. Even this is done when one wants something from Bhagavaan or when he is in misery. Now if your children do not know the right reason for going to temple and what to do in temple and that worship is their duty ,  is this fault  of muslims ?

Your children after studying in convent schools recite poems, you took pride in that. But it should been that you took pride in the recitation of Gita shlokas by your children.But now if he does not chant Gita shlokas neither  you feel guilty nor sorrow ! In our homes if a child could not recite any prayer in front of our relatives we feel ashamed. In our homes when a child starts to speak, we teach him to say " salaam " to elders.But you people have replaced namaskar & pranaam with hello, haai. Then are we responsible for this ?

Our children after returning from convent too learns Urdu, Arabic and starts reading our religious books. Your children reads neither Ramayan nor Gita. He not only knows sanskrit, but he is not good even in his mothertongue.Is this our fault ?

You had everything like civilization, history, traditions etc..You sacrificed all of them in the name of blind modernism. But we have not forgotten them.That is the only difference between us. You have broken the relationship with your roots. But we did not leave our roots neither yesterday nor desire to leave it now.

You people yourselves refrain from wearing tilak, yagyopaveeth, shikhaa & your women feel ashamed to wear tilak, bangles & mangalasutra.You people consider them unnecessary & feel embarrassment in exhibiting your identify in open. In the name of so called modernism, you people have left the practice of getting up early at 4 - 5 am & have left your rituals & customa, traditions, your sacraments , your language ,.your dress thinking them to be shear backwardness.

Now after so many years when you have got up from your slumber at 7 a.m. , you are asking your people to connect with your roots !

A community should be naturally alert to protect its identities but now unfortunately you are now in a pathetic state of convincing your community itself.

Think what is the real reasons for fear of destruction of your civilization & insecurity feeling. Are we the reasons ?

But the real problem is that thougj you want your community to be awakened,  but you yourselves do not present yourselves as an example of practice. Others do not see you as rooted in your glorious traditions. Hence not only the community but your own family members do not listen to your religious talks.   Not only you but all others of your community are hypocrites having double standard behaviour.Hence nobody listens to anybody in your community. Is this our fault ?

We read namaaz five times a day along with yogaasanaas too.

You have been in competition in destroying your Hindu identity since many decades.Even now you are doing the same. But we are successful even now  in maintaining our identify of cap, dress.
And you feel bad looking at us !
You get jealous of us ! you start hating us ! If you have failed to sustain your traditions, then why you show anger on us for your failure & negligence  & want to uproot us from our traditions ?

Instead of getting disturbed seeing other communities, it is necessary for you to learn how to maintain faith in your traditions, how to take pride in them & how to protect them by being alert.

We do not have any problem in your exhibition of your identify.But instead of protecting it you are bent upon to destroy it.

First develop a culture in your community to take pride in your civilizational identify & to wear the symbols of exhibition of it.

If you consider you & your community to be intelligent , then use your intelligence & exhibit its presence.

Unquote

thollmelukaalkizhu

[Praveen R. Bhat]

Namaste Putranji,

On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 6:42 PM putran M <putr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaskaram, this was forwarded in whatsapp. I got some doubts about the writer being Muslim but the message is powerful.

Quote

One muslim writer has slapped the Hindu community through this article.

Your married women have stopped wearing sari. Who has stopped them ? We didn't do it.We muslims are not responsible for this.Isn't  true ?

I'm not sure if really a muslim has written it and asked this question. However, the response to the statement: "we muslims are not responsible for this", is "yes, you as a community are hugely responsible for this, even if not entirely". The social media has opened up and popularised these hidden facts recently that we ignorant secular Hindus never read into, but if we were to revisit all the famous Bollywood movies at the very least across decades, we see this very anti-Hindu agenda as a design: right from portraying Hindus and Hindu traditional followings as backward, or even criminal in many cases, as opposed to "other" religions, especially Islam, through and to, replacing Hindi words with Hindusthani/ Urdu. Unfortunately, the film industry, print, radio and TV media of yesteryears have brainwashed Hindu generations to an almost complete extent! The bias on the OTT platforms today is right in your face to the point of disgust! Check any popular Hindi webseries in the past few years if anyone feels they have the stomach for it or Google the Hindu discussions on them.

Further, if one were to look at Education Ministry and the people that made the syllabi with bogus history books primary school onwards, one can see as to which religion led that effort to a very difficult point of no reversal. 

Finally, a muslim or a secular Hindu has to be really naive, brainwashed or part of the abovesaid machinery oneself to ask a question as to whether they are responsible for our cultural downfall. Apologies, this post of mine addresses only the statement of denial made or hinted at the end of each valid question raised in the post fwded. I am sure we all know the answer to those individual questions.... we have undoubtedly failed as traditional Hindus, but quite a lot of us have woken up with some hope recently. Maybe, the truth brought out in movies like The Kashmir Files and history books being corrected awaken more and bring more hope.

Kind rgds,

[putran M]

Namaskaram Praveen-ji,

Yes. You are right. I agree that social media is a boon for awakening us to the realities of anti-hindu machinations. We need to know the causes in proper terms to figure out a holistic solution. (I am a bit dulled to these facts as I have since recently kept myself out of SM for the most part. Not a good thing necessarily but a balancing act due to my lack of mind-control.)

But I felt this write-up as much as it acts like a defense of Muslims is primarily stating the solution. Hindus who are angered by the assaults on our religion need to do their part first, show pride in our identity by living up to the traditions, recognize that several of the things we have left in shame and fear - even if there are extraneous causes that impelled us - we can reinstate into our lives formally and deliberately. Everyone of us can do that one extra thing, like this "muslim writer" calls for. The solution is near at hand. Its a free country. 

thollmelukaalkizhu

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[putran M]

Namaskaram,

In this regard, am attaching an article "The need to preserve Hindu tradition" written in ~ 2009. (except for the bracketed part [Paramacharya says ...] which was noted recently.)

thollmelukaalkizhu

[putran M]

And meanwhile in Texas: https://www.hinduismtoday.com/magazine/apr-may-jun-2022/performing-sandhya-vandanam/

[putran M]

Namaskaram,

 

 Its a free country. 

I don't want to take this too afar from our list but on this point regarding Muslims and anti-Hindu activities that lead to us giving up our traditions. The primary problem with Muslims comes in the other dimension - when they turn violent against non-Muslims (idolators, kafirs) and on the other side, on those who criticize the 'prophet' or religion. We cannot deny that part of them and that makes them a live-wire hazard in a multicultural "free-to-opine" society and that society chokes itself (for example, through 295A type laws) in order to accommodate and normalize such elements for fear. We can handle the charvaka and the man who speaks ill of Rama or the "kafir" from his own corner, but when that religious identity-consciousness translates into explicit violence systematically against others, that is not something that a Hindu can simply overcome by following his own religious tradition. For example, if we do bhajan in the street as is our tradition and get assaulted (doesn't matter in what remote corner of country for you or me - its a psychological scar on us all), that's an entirely different matter than us getting scorned or laughed at. When and where the former happens in the name of religion or religious identity, it is no longer a free country; and therefore it needs to be relentlessly highlighted through SM and the "community" held accountable etc.

Excepting for this dimension of anti-Hindu activities, the rest we can handle and overcome through awareness and by getting ourselves in order. That's my thought.

[putran M]

Namaskaram,

On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 3:50 PM putran M <putr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaskaram,

A bit tangential to this topic but related in terms of the internal opposition to traditional religion. I am attaching a couple of conversations with 2 people in my family-friend group. They are both pro-Hinduism and anti-tradition and I responded as well as I could. It gives a window into the anti-traditional tarka and criticism coming from people of traditional backgrounds (as per what they think is traditionalism).

I am adding a file to the two here, containing another recent debate with an anti-traditionalist friend (same as in the May 2022 file). Initially the ongoing preliminary versions were sent to a few members. But now that the conversation ended, I think it can be tagged to this list as belonging to the same category of topic.

thollmelukaalkizhu