One Brahmaloka is for all Upasakas of Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, etc.- Mahabharata
V Subrahmanian
नारायणीयम्/दशकम् ९०
Aravinda Rao
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Raman M
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V Subrahmanian
namaste,how are the concepts of sAlokam, sAroopam etc., to be interpreted under advaita? are they to be inferred/ dismissed as mere karma phalams of this vyavaharika loka?thanksRaman
Namaste.
Most of us have heard of these four kinds of mukti: sAlokya, sAmeepya, sArupya and sAyujya. There are varying definitions of these but generally we can understand them to be:
1.sAlokya – going to the ‘loka’ of the deity worshipped
2. sAmeepya – being in the proximity of the deity worshipped
3. sArUpya – taking on the form that looks alike the deity worshipped
4. sAyujya – getting into the ‘body’ of the deity worshipped
All these types of ‘mukti’ are only relative liberation and not the real liberation intended in the Vedanta characterized by non-return to samsara अपुनरावृत्तिः. About this we have a sentence from the commentary of Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati SwaminaH for the Viveka chUDAmaNi verse 2 (end):
तेन सालोक्य-सामीप्य-सारूप्य-सायुज्यानां मुख्यमुक्तित्वाभावश्च सूचितो भवति । सगुणविषयकतया तेषां चतुर्णामपि मिथ्यात्वात्, परिच्छेदत्रयशून्यत्वरूपब्रह्मत्वस्य सगु्णेऽसंभवात् । ब्रह्मात्मना संस्थितिः – कल्पित-सकलविधोपाधिसंबन्धविधुर-नित्यशुद्धबुद्धमुक्त-प्रत्यगभिन्न-परिपूर्णस्वरूपेण अवस्थानं कैवल्यमेव मुक्तिः, ….
The salient features of the above sentences can be enumerated thus:
The four kinds described in the beginning are not the ‘real’ muktiH.
They pertain to the saguNa Brahman
They are therefore mithyA
Because, the Vedantic ultimate Brahman-nature of being free of the three kinds of limitations of space, time and objects is impossible in the SaguNa Brahman.
‘To remain established as Brahman Itself’ is the goal of Vedantic sadhana.
This is characterized by:
Freedom from association with all the erroneously imagined limiting adjuncts like body, mind, etc.
Ever-Free, Ever-Pure, Ever-Conscious
Non-different from the innermost Self (Atman)
ParipUrNa-svarUpa
This is called ‘Kaivalya’ as different from the four types saalokya, etc.
Bingming
We can quote Brahmānandagiri's Śāktānandataraṅgiṇī (16.93) to show the standpoint that kaivalya is actual mukti i.e parāmukti, while sāyujya, etc. are aparāmuktis.
Sāyujya, etc. are the mukti, which those with kāmanā get. Sāyujya is not parāmukti because it has śarīrasambandha. Those without kāmanā attain nirvāṇamukti (kaivalya), which is the paramapuruṣārtha.sakāmānāṁ sāyujyādimuktiḥ, sāyujyaṁ na parāmuktiḥ, śarīrasambandhāt / akāmānāṁ nirvāṇameva muktiḥ, paramapuruṣārthatvāt /
anye vedāntavākyārthavicārātparamarṣayaḥ / sālokyādivibhāgena caturthā muktirītā // (17) caturvidhā tu yā muktirmadupāsanayā bhavet // (24b) kaivalyamuktirekaiva paramārthikarūpiṇī / (18a)
Śiva Purāṇa (4.41.7a) seems to keep kaivalya as separate and greater than the other muktis (sālokya, sārūpya, sānnidya/sāmīpya, sāyujya)\
However, I am still confused on sāyujya mukti. Is it that mukti, which saguṇa upāsakas attain, upon which they traverse to Brahmaloka via devayāna, and after which they attain kaivalya, upon attainining Brahmajñāna? I checked the end of Advaitasiddhi, Madhusūdana Sarasvatī argued against tāratamya of mukti. He doesn't accept that there is any tāratamya in mukti, but he considers sāyujya mukti as actual ekatva with Brahman. As per him, sāyujya mukti is parāmukti (unlike the stance of Brahmānandagiri), while sālokya, etc. are aparāmuktis. And tāratamya is acceptable in aparāmuktis. It seems, that Madhūsūdana Sarasvatī has a unique perspective of sāyujyamukti, as per which, it's equivalent to kaivalya.kaivalyākhyā pañcamī ca durlabhā sarvathā nr̥ṇām /
Could you please help me on this topic? And point out, if I am wrong anywhere?Thanks 🙏
V Subrahmanian
We can quote Brahmānandagiri's Śāktānandataraṅgiṇī (16.93) to show the standpoint that kaivalya is actual mukti i.e parāmukti, while sāyujya, etc. are aparāmuktis.
Sāyujya, etc. are the mukti, which those with kāmanā get. Sāyujya is not parāmukti because it has śarīrasambandha. Those without kāmanā attain nirvāṇamukti (kaivalya), which is the paramapuruṣārtha.sakāmānāṁ sāyujyādimuktiḥ, sāyujyaṁ na parāmuktiḥ, śarīrasambandhāt / akāmānāṁ nirvāṇameva muktiḥ, paramapuruṣārthatvāt /
anye vedāntavākyārthavicārātparamarṣayaḥ / sālokyādivibhāgena caturthā muktirītā // (17) caturvidhā tu yā muktirmadupāsanayā bhavet // (24b) kaivalyamuktirekaiva paramārthikarūpiṇī / (18a)
Śiva Purāṇa (4.41.7a) seems to keep kaivalya as separate and greater than the other muktis (sālokya, sārūpya, sānnidya/sāmīpya, sāyujya)\
However, I am still confused on sāyujya mukti. Is it that mukti, which saguṇa upāsakas attain, upon which they traverse to Brahmaloka via devayāna, and after which they attain kaivalya, upon attainining Brahmajñāna?kaivalyākhyā pañcamī ca durlabhā sarvathā nr̥ṇām /
ब्रह्मसूत्रभाष्यम्चतुर्थोऽध्यायःचतुर्थः पादःसूत्रम् १७ - भाष्यम्
………ये सगुणब्रह्मोपासनात् सहैव मनसा ईश्वरसायुज्यं व्रजन्ति
I checked the end of Advaitasiddhi, Madhusūdana Sarasvatī argued against tāratamya of mukti. He doesn't accept that there is any tāratamya in mukti, but he considers sāyujya mukti as actual ekatva with Brahman. As per him, sāyujya mukti is parāmukti (unlike the stance of Brahmānandagiri), while sālokya, etc. are aparāmuktis. And tāratamya is acceptable in aparāmuktis. It seems, that Madhūsūdana Sarasvatī has a unique perspective of sāyujyamukti, as per which, it's equivalent to kaivalya.
Could you please help me on this topic? And point out, if I am wrong anywhere?Thanks 🙏
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sunil bhattacharjya
गुरूपदिष्टमार्गेण ध्यायन्मद्गुणमव्ययम् । मत्सायुज्यं द्विजः सम्यग्भजेद्भ्रमरकीटवत् ॥ २४॥ सैव सायुज्यमुक्तिः स्याद्ब्रह्मानन्दकरी शिवा ।
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S Ganesh
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V Subrahmanian
Dear Subbuji,In the Muktika Upanishad, Lord Ram says as follows:गुरूपदिष्टमार्गेण ध्यायन्मद्गुणमव्ययम् । मत्सायुज्यं द्विजः सम्यग्भजेद्भ्रमरकीटवत् ॥ २४॥ सैव सायुज्यमुक्तिः स्याद्ब्रह्मानन्दकरी शिवा ।Which means that one who follows guru's instruction and meditates or does yoga-sadhana (nididhyasana) on my Avyaya guna (state) he gets sAyujya Mukti (becomes one with me) and enjoys Brahmananda. This is the ultimate Kaivalya Mukti. Lord Ram told Hanumanji also do this dhyana on Lord Ram's Avyaya state. Lord Ram did not say the Kaivalya mukti to be any fifth type of Mukti.
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Bhaskar YR
praNAms
Hare Krishna
The Paladyaya, 4th adyaya or last chapter of Brhmasutra discusses mukthi or palam. The 2nd and 4th pada there, discuss about upasaka's mukthi.
Jaimini who comes as poorvapaksha quotes chandogya 4.15.6 and kata sruti 2.3.16 amrtatvam yeti etc to say upasakas attain parambrhman only.
Vyasa reconciles these 2 srutis by bringing in the concept of krama mukthi, where he says upasakas go to karya brahma or hiranyagarba through shukla gati
then attain parambrhma without travel after getting nirguna gnanam. by this gnanat eva kaivalyam is also not contradicted. He argues that chandogya 4.15.5
is only brhmaloka as it is not only logical 'asya gati upapateh' but also clarified in brahadaranyaka sruti 6.2.15 in 'visheshitatvat' sutra.
- I am afraid all these things, according to some, are just arthavAda not final verdict as these things (brahma loka, hiraNyagarbha, the gati that jeeva travels etc.) come under the preliminary segment called SDV, which is in itself not enough to give ‘mukti’ and there has to be a ‘concept shift’ from SDV to DSV and then finally AV which is the ONLY way to realize there no mukti and nor mumukshu.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar
Kalyan
Bhaskar YR
praNAms
Hare Krishna
There is only one truth - that jIva is brahman.
Ø Yes there is only satya, the secondless satya i.e. brahman brahmaiva satyam. Subsequent declarations like : Jagan mithya, jeevo brahmaiva etc. are for those who still see the reality in duality 😊
suresh srinivasamurthy
Suresh
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2023 7:01 AM
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Subject: RE: [advaitin] One Brahmaloka is for all Upasakas of Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, etc.- Mahabharata
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Akilesh Ayyar
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Bhaskar YR
Of course in Truth all vadas are artha vada, including the vada expressed in this very sentence. 🙂
praNAms
Hare Krishna
Oh yes !! and even AtmaikatvavAda too not spared here, to say something aloud we need duality and even soliloquies, whatever comes under it is mere arthavAda and NOT paramArtha satya where absolute silence prevails 😊 And again as you said this very sentence too an arthavAda.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!
bhaskar
Bhaskar YR
praNAms
Hare Krishna
IMHO, realization of mithyAtva of jagat is very important as it helps in brahmacharya, aparigraha and vairAgya
- Yes, you are right but here what we have realize is mithyatva of ‘our relation’ with this jagat. If we see the jagat ‘as it is’ without fabricating our own perceptions to it then we realize jagat is not jagat, it is not parichinna, it is not an independent entity bothering us, it is not sitting aloof from us and causing havoc in our mind. To get the vairagya first we need to realize our socalled relationship with jagat. The wife is wife as long as one is gruhastha but if the same person takes sannyasa the socalled relationship (bandhana) called ‘wife’ vanishes and what remains is Ishwara srushti ‘as it is’ i.e. woman. Whatever jagat we create with our avidyA / adhyAsa is mithya for which Ashraya is jagat that purely entirely belongs to Ishwara and for this later jagat Ishwara is the ONLY abhinna nimittOpadAna kAraNa and this kArya jagat before creation will be there with brahman and after creation appears separate from brahman and after dissolution goes back to its source. Hence like cause the effect also trishu kAleshu abAdhita.
and at the same time doing brahma drushti in jagat/Ishwara/Acharya is also important in order to attain sarvAtmatva/Brahmatva.
Ø sarvAtma bhAva is itself mOksha sthiti clarifies bhAshyakAra somewhere. There is no demarcation line between sarvAtmabhAva and nirguNa, nirvishesha svarUpa jnana (paramArtha jnana).
H S Chandramouli
Namaste.
My understanding.
Reg // IMHO, realization of mithyAtva of jagat is very important as it helps in brahmacharya, aparigraha and vairAgya //,
mithyAtva of jagat should be cultivated through effort as it helps in brahmacharya, aparigraha and vairAgya. It serves as a sAdhana for Realization. After Realization, mithyAtva of jagat is automatic and effortless.
Reg // at the same time doing brahma drushti in jagat/Ishwara/Acharya is also important in order to attain sarvAtmatva/Brahmatva //
Same here. ** doing brahma drushti ** is a sAdhana for Realization. To be done through effort. After Realization, attainment of sarvAtmatva/Brahmatva is automatic and effortless.
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