Nirvikalpa Samadhi

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

PraNAms to everybody.

There seems to be a lot of confusion related to Nirvilpa samadhi. 

Q. What is the role of Nirvilpa Samadhi? Is this state essential for the realization of the absolute? Can one realize the truth without it? 

Many quote Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi - some out of context. He seems to say the mind is a problem, and one has to get rid of it!

maanasantukim maarganekrute, naiva maanasam, maarga aarjavat| from Upadesha saara.

Inquiring into the Nature of the mind itself - if one does that, the very mind disappears, and that is the direct path. 

Hari Om!

Sada

[H S Chandramouli]

Pranams Sadananda Ji,

Translation of the stanza from Upadesa Sara cited by  you, as provided by Arunachala ashrama is copied below.

// 17. मानसं तु किं मार्गणे कृते ।
  नैव मानसं मार्ग आर्जवात् ॥ १७॥

mānasaṃ tu kiṃ mārgaṇe kṛte
  naiva mānasaṃ mārge ārjavāt

When unceasingly the mind
Scans its own form
There is nothing of the kind.
For every one
This path direct is open //.

While no doubt the clear official elaboration of this is to be given by the ardent followers of the Maharshi, my own understanding is as below.

The unique characterization  of the mind is the *triputi*,  *knower,known,knowledge*. All its manifestations involve this. It may be considered its **form**, mentioned in the verse. When this is unceasingly analyzed, it culminates in the *anubhava*  of  *absence of triputi*.  This is *disappearance of the mind*. It should not be understood as physical destruction of the mind.

This also is * nirvikalpa samAdhi*. This ceaseless analysis, as per traditional sAdhanas  prescribed, is through ShravaNa/manana/nididhyAsana.

Pranams and Regards

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[putran M]

Namaskaram Sada-ji,

My understanding and mananam:

When we affirm mind, we realise the Self as its sakshi and the world of thoughts as the projection of vrittis in the mind. The reduction of the thought-world to the modification of mind constitutes jnana of the unreality of that world, its meanings and relations, for they are all imagination conjured of something else (mind) that is inherently homogeneous. This leads to a sankhya-yoga duality involving the immutable sakshi-Self and the mutable jada mind that falsely is projected (in our "thoughts") as a chaitanya-possessed diverse world. 

The yogin says that the sakshi is caught in a beginning-less bondage due to this seeing through the mind vrittis and identifying with the projected thoughts. In order to know its true nature as pure and independent, distinct from and un-entangled by mind, the sakshi has to obtain the NS state of full awareness of Self alone without the presence of mind-vriitis, resulting in the knowledge "I am the purusha, eternally free and untouched by the turbulence of prakriti."

The yogin does not consider NS as the permanent destruction of mind because the mind (and its duality vis-a-vis Self) is real for him. However though NS is a temporary anubhava, it has opened him to his true nature and that self-awareness continues in future despite the operation of a separately real mind. Thus the yogi is liberated from the mind though remaining its detached witness.

For the jnani, such an NS is not sufficient to obtain jivan mukti because where there is continuance of the belief in something real other than Self and to which the Self is related even as witness or cause, there will remain primordial bondage, enslavement and fear. The jnani's nondual realization of Brahman, as the Self/adhishtanam of All, destroys once and for all the belief in the reality of any and every dualistic identification of the All. 

Thus the triad identifications of Self: as sakshi, mind, thought; or Ishvara, maya, jagat; or seer, seeing, seen; are all mithya adhyasa - transactionally real but not absolutely. In particular "the mind is nothing but a bundle of thoughts". It is also a dream entity that exists in the dream as the causal substrate for the dream so long as the dream continues; but for one who knows the Self in all and all in Self, there is neither world nor mind: they are all destroyed (sublated) in Self knowledge. (Again, quite different from the yogin who in NS either controls or turns away from a real mind).

thollmelukaalkizhu 

[Vikram Jagannathan]

Namaskaram Sada-ji and others,

Per my understanding the genesis of brahmakara-vritti directly leads to nirvikalpa samadhi. This is the dissolution of all vrittis, including the brahmakara-vritti itself, and consequently the sublation of the mind too.

prostrations,

Vikram

On Fri, 7 Feb, 2025, 11:35 am 'Kuntimaddi Sadananda' via advaitin, <adva...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

PraNAms to everybody.

There seems to be a lot of confusion related to Nirvilpa samadhi. 

Q. What is the role of Nirvilpa Samadhi? Is this state essential for the realization of the absolute? Can one realize the truth without it? 

Many quote Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi - some out of context. He seems to say the mind is a problem, and one has to get rid of it!

maanasantukim maarganekrute, naiva maanasam, maarga aarjavat| from Upadesha saara.

Inquiring into the Nature of the mind itself - if one does that, the very mind disappears, and that is the direct path. 

Hari Om!

Sada

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[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Charamouliji and others who responded to my inquiry - PraNAms

Those familiar with Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's life know that he was meditating like a statue unaware of the external world. The compositions, particularly 'Upadesha Saara' and 'Sat Darshanam',  and his answers to the questions came later. Obviously, he was answering using his mind. The question that arises is whether that state of - unawareness of the  universe - is a prerequisite for Self-Realization.  I am also reminded of the sloka - 'vidhyaa vinaya sampanne ... samadarshinaH' -and 'samatvam yoga uchyate'. 

Q. Is akhandaakaara vritti - same as Nirvikalpaka Samadhi? 

Hari Om!

Sada 

On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 02:55:30 PM GMT+5:30, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

Pranams Sadananda Ji,


Translation of the stanza from Upadesa Sara cited by  you, as provided by
Arunachala ashrama is copied below.


// 17. मानसं तु किं मार्गणे कृते ।
नैव मानसं मार्ग आर्जवात् ॥ १७॥

*mānasaṃ tu kiṃ mārgaṇe kṛte naiva mānasaṃ mārge ārjavāt*

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[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Putranji - PraNAms

Thanks for your detailed explantion. I agree with what you wrote.

Hari Om!

Sada

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[Akilesh Ayyar]

Q. Is akhandaakaara vritti - same as Nirvikalpaka Samadhi? 

No. But at least a very brief moment of NS is required for the AV to happen. One must see the unobscured mirror at least for one second before the reflection can be recognized, but one may also look at the mirror for a long time without any such recognition happening.

Akilesh Ayyar

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[Vikram Jagannathan]

Namaskaram,

Adding to Akilesh ji, in my opinion, brahmakara vritti / akhandakara vritti co-generates nirvikalpa samadhi state. However, not all nirvikalpa samadhi state involves brahmakara vritti. The former is the result of Vedanta sadhana, whereas the latter differentiates Vedanta from dualistic Yoga sadhana. 

As Bhagavan Bhashyakara has stated in BU-1.4.7, there is no other means of achieving proper chitta-vritti-nirodha other than atma-jnana. I would equate chitta-vritti-nirodha to nirvikalpa samadhi and atma-jnana to brahmakara-vritti. Thus per Swami Sankaracharya's words, proper nirvikalpa samadhi (chitta-vritti-nirodha) can only be achieved through brahmakara vritti (atma-jnana).

prostrations,

Vikram

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[H S Chandramouli]

Pranams Sadananda Ji,

 

Reg  // Q. Is akhandaakaara vritti - same as Nirvikalpaka Samadhi? //,

 

In the Bhashya, it is stated that destruction of avidyA and origination of jnAna are not related as cause and effect. On the otherhand the two terms mean the same. I tried my best to locate the same today, but unfortunately did not succeed. I will continue my attempts to locate the same. Meanwhile I request any other member who can locate it  to cite the relevant bhashya.

 

The same holds good here. Realization/Aakhandaakaara vritti/ Nirvikalpaka Samadhi/any of the other terms used referring to the same are all synonyms and mean the same. They do not bear any cause and effect relationship.

 

Pranams and Regards

[H S Chandramouli]

Pranams Sadanada Ji,

 

In continuation, for purposes of understanding, a sequence is conceived, not in terms of time but in terms of understanding, as between mahAvAkya shravaNa-shAbda janya vritti-automatic origination of akhandAkAra vritti of the form aham brhmAsmi-destruction of AvaraNa-Realization or jIva brahma aikya jnAnajnAna or Atma jnAna.

 

All the terms mean the same. There is no cause-effect relationship between any of them. Also termed instantaneous and simultaneous.

 

Pranams and Regards

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Chandramouliji- PraNAms

Thanks for taking the time to address the issue that I raised. 

My understanding closely matches what you stated. 

I raised the question since there are many posts on Facebook from people from different backgrounds endorsing that Nirvikalpaka state is a prerequisite for Self-realization, and quote many question-answers given by Ramana Maharshi related to this topic. 

Hari Om!

Sada

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Sada prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

NS, contextually described differently in different texts.  But unfortunately, in Advaita tradition itself (particularly VC, paNchadashi, JMV) NS has been explained in terms of dvaita yOga shAstra i.e. asaMprajnAta samAdhi, i.e. NS as time bound mind inert mysterious state.  A must have experience ( as per vivaraNa and bhAmati) to literally experience the Atmaikatva jnAna or absolute absence of duality/jagat.  Going by this, now, in Advaita tradition pataNjala yOga and its ultimate experience closely knitted with AV’s paramArtha jnAna and importance of this experience highlighted by Jagadguru(s) as well.  However, some modern day vedAntin-s like Arsha vidyA gurukula (Sri Dayananda Saraswati etc.) and Sri SSS etc. have some other opinion on this.  You can find some relevant discussion on this very topic in Advaita-L as well, of course some decades back.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar 

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

In the Bhashya, it is stated that destruction of avidyA and origination of jnAna are not related as cause and effect. On the otherhand the two terms mean the same.

 

• Perhaps you may find the relevance here in 4.4.6 bruhad bhAshya, tasmAdavidyA nivruttimAtre mOksha vyavahAra eti chAvOchAma, yathA rajjvAdau sarpadhyajnAnanivruttau sarpAdi nivruttiH.  Or in sUtra bhAshya phalatva prasiddhiH api mOkshasya bandhanivruttimAtrApekshA, nApUrvOpajananApekshA. 

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

One more reference in geeta bhAshya (18:50) that the mOksha or ultimate realization is just removal of only avidyA and not attaining the jnAna afresh since jnAna is svabhAva/prasiddha of Atman.

 

avidyAdhyAropaNa nirAkaraNamAtraM brahmaNi kartavyaM “natu brahmajnAne yatnotyanta prasiddhatvAt. 

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Hare Krishna Bhaskar prabhu ji.

One more reference in geeta bhAshya (18:50) that the mOksha or ultimate realization is just removal of only avidyA and not attaining the jnAna afresh since jnAna is svabhAva/prasiddha of Atman.

 

avidyAdhyAropaNa nirAkaraNamAtraM brahmaNi kartavyaM “natu brahmajnAne yatnotyanta prasiddhatvAt. 

Just curious regarding the stand of avidyA being jnAna-abhAva. How would you explain this Gita reference?

The bhAshya clearly says that avidyA-removal is required and not jnAna-acquisition. This clearly means that AchArya is distinguishing these two.

Now, if avidyA were to be jnAna-abhAva, then avidyA-removal has to be by jnAna-acquisition. Isn't it? Then the bhAshya will not make sense.

Regards.

Sudhanshu Shekhar.

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

• You stopped me from reading other backlog mails about brahmAkAra vrutti or akhandAkAra vrutti by sending this monotonous query 😊

 

Just curious regarding the stand of avidyA being jnAna-abhAva.

 

• avidyA is not ONLY jnAna abhAva it is also vipareeta grahaNa and saMshaya as well 😊 And I don’t have to show you the reference for this, do I??

 

How would you explain this Gita reference?

 

Ø     See above, apply mind and let me know if you still have any doubts. 

 

The bhAshya clearly says that avidyA-removal is required and not jnAna-acquisition. This clearly means that AchArya is distinguishing these two.

 

Now, if avidyA were to be jnAna-abhAva, then avidyA-removal has to be by jnAna-acquisition. Isn't it? Then the bhAshya will not make sense.

 

Ø     I don’t think no vedAnti would pose queries like this and come to the erroneous conclusion as above if he or she really understands the purport of adhyAsa bhAshya.  By the way, we are not saying we are seeing only rajju and not sarpa 😊 

Ø    Anyway, the avidyA that which we want to get rid of definitely NOT the concocted dravya rUpa, brahmAshrita avidyA which is material cause for everything.  That much you can always keep in your mind 😊

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Bhaskar ji.

Thanks.

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[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

I have been observing that whenever some controversial topics come up  for discussion, most talkative prabhuji-s would maintain very smart silence 😊 The subject topic is one of those topics and traditional understanding of this topic drastically differs from that of modern day advaitins, hence they talk lot about contents of JMV, VC etc. 

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

I had earlier stated as under.

  Reg  // Q. Is akhandaakaara vritti - same as Nirvikalpaka Samadhi? //,

 In the Bhashya, it is stated that destruction of avidyA and origination of jnAna are not related as cause and effect. On the otherhand the two terms mean the same. I tried my best to locate the same today, but unfortunately did not succeed. I will continue my attempts to locate the same. Meanwhile I request any other member who can locate it  to cite the relevant bhashya //.

The following citation and subsequent discussion thereon in the Bhashya may be referred.

BUB 1-4-10

//  अविद्यापगममात्रत्वाद्ब्रह्मप्राप्तिफलस्य //.

//  avidyApagamamAtratvAdbrahmaprAptiphalasya //

Translation (Swami Madhavananda) // For, the Realisation of Brahman, which is this result, consists in the mere cessation of ignorance //.

Translation (Sri SSS in kannada, kannada to English mine. I have retained some terms as they appear in kannada as they are selfexplanatory and more meaningful than English translations of the same) 

// ಏಕೆಂದರೆ ಬ್ರಹ್ಮಪ್ರಾಪ್ತಿಫಲವು ಎಂದರೆ ಅವಿದ್ಯೆಯು ತೊಲಗುವದೇ ಹೊರತು (ಮತ್ತೇನೂ ಅಲ್ಲ) //

// For, Brahma prApti phala means nothing  other than cessation of avidyA //.

// एवमात्मविषयं विज्ञानं यत्कालम् , तत्काल एव तद्विषयाज्ञानतिरोभावः स्यात् //

// evamAtmaviShayaM vij~nAnaM yatkAlam , tatkAla eva tadviShayAj~nAnatirobhAvaH syAt //

Translation (Swami Madhavananda)  //  similarly the very moment that one has knowledge of the

Supreme Self, ignorance regarding It must disappear //.

Translation (Sri SSS) // ಅದರಂತೆ ಆತ್ಮವಿಷಯದ ವಿಜ್ಞಾನವು ಯಾವ ಕಾಲದಲ್ಲಾಗುವದೋ ಆ ಕಾಲದಲ್ಲಿಯೇ ಅದರ ವಿಷಯದ ಅಜ್ಞಾನವು ಮರಯಾಗಬೇಕು //

// Similarly at the time vijnAna relating to Self originates, at the same time ajnAna relating to it must disappear //.

Regards

On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 4:42 PM H S Chandramouli <hschand...@gmail.com> wrote: