Vegan=Kosher?; B-12

[Shelly Schwartz]

I have two topics that I need help with.  Maybe food for a discussion here for one or both questions.  (If this is not suitable for this group, please let me know.)

1) I don't know much except the very basics of what constitutes Kosher food.  Could someone weigh in on, "Is a Vegan diet also (by default) a Kosher diet?"  Do Kosher laws have anything to say about vegetables?  

2) In discussing whether humans were "meant" to be vegans, or alternatively, at this point have humans evolved enough to be vegans...  how does one explain the need for supplemental Vitamin B-12?

I myself have been vegetarian for 36 years, the last 6 of which I have been vegan.  So, you could say I'm firmly committed.  But, I wonder if the need for supplemental B-12 kills my argument that humans don't "need" meat, but instead we've just found a way to substitute a pill (or fortified food) for the one element in the flesh that we actually do need.

Thoughts/Comments?

Thanks,

Shelly

[Allen]

Hi. 

Very briefly.

Question 1. Potential Issues.

1. Oven needs to be kosher 

2. Utensils and dishes need to be kosher/placed in mikvah (ritual bath)

3. Vinegar and grape products have special issues, needs to be kosher.

4. Produce from Israel may beed to be separated.

5. Certain vegetables need to be specially checked for bugs.

6. Oven needs to be turned on by a Jew.

7. In some places food is "offered" to a diety first

Question 2. 

Others know better so i will hold off for now. 

All the best

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[Eliran Sobel]

Hello,

So in regards to your first question, I am personally willing to trust all-vegan restaurants as "kosher enough." Also, whole plant foods are usually ok (I'd trust bulk bins of beans, grains, etc., even if they aren't certified), though anything with grapes makes me nervous, and I'd want certification.

In your second question, I have heard, but am by no means qualified is that it's because our water is too clean. Sure water sanitation gets rid of the cholera, but it also gets rid of B12, which is also made by bacteria. The only reason animal products have B12 is because the animals are given B12 supplements. Plus, carnists should probably be taking B12 supplement as well. So, yeah, we are meant to be vegan when we drank unsanitized water, but since we want super-clean water, we need to supplement. But again, ask a real Registered Dietitian (RD). 

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 10:14:35 AM UTC-4, allendanielp wrote:

Hi. 

Very briefly.

Question 1. Potential Issues.

1. Oven needs to be kosher 

2. Utensils and dishes need to be kosher/placed in mikvah (ritual bath)

3. Vinegar and grape products have special issues, needs to be kosher.

4. Produce from Israel may beed to be separated.

5. Certain vegetables need to be specially checked for bugs.

6. Oven needs to be turned on by a Jew.

7. In some places food is "offered" to a diety first

Question 2. 

Others know better so i will hold off for now. 

All the best

On Aug 30, 2017 9:37 AM, "Shelly Schwartz" <shelly...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have two topics that I need help with.  Maybe food for a discussion here for one or both questions.  (If this is not suitable for this group, please let me know.)

1) I don't know much except the very basics of what constitutes Kosher food.  Could someone weigh in on, "Is a Vegan diet also (by default) a Kosher diet?"  Do Kosher laws have anything to say about vegetables?  

2) In discussing whether humans were "meant" to be vegans, or alternatively, at this point have humans evolved enough to be vegans...  how does one explain the need for supplemental Vitamin B-12?

I myself have been vegetarian for 36 years, the last 6 of which I have been vegan.  So, you could say I'm firmly committed.  But, I wonder if the need for supplemental B-12 kills my argument that humans don't "need" meat, but instead we've just found a way to substitute a pill (or fortified food) for the one element in the flesh that we actually do need.

Thoughts/Comments?

Thanks,

Shelly

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[Jennifer Mizrahi]

Eliran- here is something that echoes your response.  I am by no means qualified; but here is what I got from the net.

http://bitesizevegan.com/vegan-health/how-to-get-b12-on-a-vegan-diet-dr-michael-greger-of-nutritionfacts-org/

Kind regards,

Jennifer Mizrahi

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[Jennifer Mizrahi]

And one more, just for fun.

https://www.veganmotivation.com/vegan-b12-truth

Kind regards,

Jennifer Mizrahi

On Aug 30, 2017, at 07:51, Eliran Sobel <eliran...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[roberta schiff]

About B-12. Yes, we need B-12. But it is NOT intrinsic to animal flesh. B-12 is made by a soil organism - animals that graze get it in that manner. Today's feedlot cows, (who are fed corn, chicken litter, and restaurant grease, that gives them more "appealing" flesh and digestive upsets, not so much).* Unless you grow your own carrots and eat them without washing - you and everyone else (vegan or carnivore) ought to take a B-12 supplement. We humans do not need animal tissue and secretions to be healthy. I have been vegan for 24 years, take no RX meds and have none of the problems that other family members had/have. You know - heart-diabetes, walk with a cane, pop pills and keep running to doctor for even more scans and tests.

* Cows that end up in a kosher slaughterhouse come from the very same feedlots that finish most beef animals.

Tza'ar ba'alei chayim? No it is not.

 

Roberta Schiff
Coordinator
Hudson Valley Vegans
hvvegans.org
845.876.2626

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[Eliran Sobel]

Hi Roberta,

Nice response. One thing I'd like to mention is that the literal translation of Tza'ar Ba'alei Chayim means "suffering to animals," so all meat today is tza'ar ba'alei chayim. I understood your point, but as someone who likes Hebrew grammar, I felt like it was worth pointing out.