Replacing freshwater piping

[Chris Labatt-Simon]

As much as I adore our copper piping throughout our P40, Pelican, and the fun little tricks the builders used to make it deal with flexing and vibration (like seating an end of the pipe into a rubber gasket which is then seated into another pipe to continue the flow - all of which sometimes comes apart over the Winter and results in a big puddle the first time we turn on the system in the Spring)... we're considering replacing all of it with "flexible" tubing to increase water flow (hopefully getting us better pressure to our shower - especially hot water) and get rid of a potential problem spot in a 40 year old boat.

A few questions:

1. For those of you that have done this, what system did you use? We're looking at AquaLock or maybe Whale type PEX tubing - but maybe home depot residential pex and connectors would work ok? Or would another material work better than PEX?
2. How tough was it to remove all the old rigid tubing and replace it with the new stuff? Were there any locations that were particularly tough to feed? In my head I'm thinking replacing rigid copper tubing with semi-rigid hose should be one of the "easier" things to do.. but my head and reality often don't agree.
3. Brass or plastic fittings?
4. Did you replace all the way back to the tanks? Or just from the freshwater manifold forward?
5. What pump did you end up using to drive the system and ensure reasonable hot water flow? Our hot water flow is kind of passive and I'm not even sure how it works exactly since we only have one pump. I need to look that up lol. I'm more of an electrical guy than a plumbing guy.
6. Anything else I need to consider?

Thanks!

Chris Labatt

s/v/ Pelican

Passport 40 #76

[Chip Ewing]

PEX is the way to go. Replaced all my freshwater hoses with Sharkbite brand you can get at Home Depot. I believe you can get rolls in 100’ lengths. I got three different colors so I wouldn’t get confused. White for lines coming from the tanks, red for hot water and blue for cold. Spend a few extra bucks and by the proper cutting tools, makes life easier and does a better job. Easy to work with snaps right in. If you have to slide on a male end heat it up with a heat gun and it slides right on. I tighten the hose clamp as it cools and it feels solid. First time using  Three years and some open water passages no leaks. Had lots of hose left over but for me it was worth not having to worry about running out or making a mistake. 

Chip Ewing

S/V Sideways

Seattle, Wa.

[Chris Labatt-Simon]

Thanks Chip. How was the removal of the old stuff and the feeding and installation process of the PEX?

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[Jeremy Dinsel]

Hi Chris,

We replaced ours in the winter with PEX tubing (if anyone is in Seattle, I have some long lengths of unused blue and red tubes) and quick disconnects from Whale that we mostly bought at Sure Marine, Fisheries Supply, and Seattle Marine (SeaMar). It was like building a lego set, in a way, except that if you didn't seat the tubing well, it would gush water. Be sure to make perpendicular cuts on the hoses with a very sharp tool and then ensure a proper seat has been made.

Removing the old tubing was easy at times. I ran a messenger after the tubing as it was pulled when it went through a bulkhead with limited access. The most difficult one for our boat was the hoses that went under the galley, under the cabin sole, under the quarter berth head, and into the quarter berth sink. Pulling the old copper and re-plumbing it with the new tubing left me with bruises on both arms. The process was to pull a little, push a little, repeat. This was far simpler when the two of us were able to work on it together. 

For the most part, we went with plastic fittings unless we could not find one or were switching from the PEX system to a hose barb. We had to do this at the pick-up from the freshwater tanks. These had welded in place hose barbs. We made a transition from PEX to old-fashioned (?) tubing at these points. We replaced all of the fittings with quick connects on the sinks everywhere else -- with maybe another exception at the filtered water in the galley sink, but I don't recall right now.

Our hot and cold water is pushed through the boat by a new whale pump. It has fittings for PEX and tubing that are easily changeable. We added an accumulator tank post-pump. The pump is sufficient at pushing water through all of the hoses and the accumulator removes 95% of the water hammer, but we do see a little at the whale gusher foot pump outlets.

When we did this work, we replaced our hot water heater. The timing felt right and the presence of water under the hot water heater, plus the sizzle of angry pixies when the A/C wires were touched gave me the idea to deal with it immediately.

What else to consider? Look for ways that you can run the PEX such that it does not have too tight of a bend. There's a limited radius to adhere to. Try to avoid 90-degree elbows when you can, but allow yourself some flexibility if needed. Make sure you have a drain valve in place and a backflow preventer on the water heater. Recycle your copper. Visiting the local metal recycling shop can be quite the experience!

Chip: Where is S/V Sideways? We're out at Shileshole on C dock.

-j

S/V Whale Shadow

[Chip Ewing]

Most of the original plumbing was removed by the original owner and replaced with fiber reinforced tubing that was turning yellow. 

[Marty McOmber]

I did pretty much the same as Jeremy on our 1984 Passport 40 -- which we keep in Seattle at Elliott Bay Marina (Seattle area Passporters, we need to do a raft up this summer!). I can't remember a major hassle with the runs -- we have the V-berth with head to port, so the runs were pretty obvious and fairly easy. I'm also fine with rerouting a run (plumbing or wiring) if I think there is a better or easier solution than the builder came up with.  

We used Seatech fittings and blue and red 1/2" Pex -- purchased from Sure and Fisheries. It's kinda fun to assemble and you can be creative with the various fittings. I built a manifold that allows me not only to select which of the two water tanks the pump uses, but also allows me to move water from one tank to the other using the same pump. I did this so I could plumb the watermaker to just one tank and shift water to the other as needed. The manifold also allows me to feed fresh water to flush the watermakers.  

Things may have changed since I installed my set up a few years ago, but back then, the Seatech fittings, which are Imperial units, did not work with the metric size PEX that Fisheries also sells under the Whale brand. I had a friend who replumbed his boat at the same time I did using Seatech fittings, but he accidentally purchased Whale's Pex tubing. The small difference between 13mm and 1/2" was enough that he had a very wet experience when he first pressurized the system. 

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[LAURA CREWS]

We also used the Whale piping and quick disconnects which I agree was like building a Lego set.  We plan to complete the project this summer by running piping to the freshwater faucet in the cockpit and the shower.  We have to remove the holding tank to access the shower faucet and remove a 30 year old battery charger in the port lazerette to access the old copper piping for the cockpit faucet.  A Seattle area raft-up sounds like fun.

 

Laura

S/V Beatrix

Tacoma, WA

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