--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
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Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
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Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
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What is it that is common to everything in the Universe, and eternal too?
After all, by whatever science or logic we may use, something can never be transformed into absolutely nothing, and likewise absolutely nothing cannot be transformed into something. Something exists, and it is eternal because it cannot be transformed into
absolutely nothing, by science or otherwise. Given this basic philosophical belief, any theory of the beginnings of our Universe, including the Big Bang, may at best be true, but incomplete though. They tend to lead to more questions than the answers they
present, and it is the unadulterated conceit and cussedness of some Scientists that such incomplete truths continue to be celebrated. Innocently?
It doesn't matter whether we deal with Universal smelling, urination or defecation - i'm sorry, but should we consider other human actions too?
In any case, isn't it intriguing that we explicitly accept the absence of commonly acceptable definitions of consciousness and yet continue with our attempts to delve into Universal consciousness and other phenomena in our Universe, including urination and
defecation.
Can we be humble enough to recognize and accept that currently we do not know that we do not know about some questions that are bound to arise in the future following every marginal or great discovery of Science? Or, are we going to be conceited enough
to reject the idea of the possibility of such questions arising? This only points to the incompleteness of Science, as we know and practice it, and
not the incompetency of Scientists.
It is high time that die-hard Scientists learn to accept the eternal and universal limitations of Science, even granting all the glory and grandeur due to it. Let us not forget for a moment that Faith exists at the edge of Science.
Best wishes,
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Srinivasa Rao Kankipati <ksra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Definitely higher consciousness may be existing. Just as lower level beings do not have consciousness that we humans have, some among us may be having the faculty of a higher type of consciousness. But imagination may be running riot in assuming that consciousness is an ocean, with salt or sweet water. Nobody has so far proved that life is an ocean, all the same life exists in all living beings. I feel we need not unnecessarily elevate any human faculty to a universal level, and postulate that bits of it are permeating human beings.
I posted the images at:Now that our best scientific knowledge clearly shows a huge connected network full of free energy, even though the matter is mostly not the kind we are familiar with, it would be surprising if the universe were NOT pulsing with life, even if life based on a type of matter we are not familiar with. These pictures do not look like diffuse radiation emanating from ordinary matter, even though there is a connection.BUT: you are asking a key question. Why should we assume that WE, in our fullest real existence, have any facilities of sensing or thinking beyond what we see in the brain?Indeed, most psychologists would agree with you that humans do not, plain and simple. They know it is physically impossible. They often "know" what is physically and mathematically possible more than most physicists would claim to know. I once held the same view, and I fully understand how strong the logic is to support it. Donald Hebb explains why, at the start of his classic book The Organization of Behavior. But personal experience forced me long ago to look into the evidence of personal experience and, yes, of parapsychology and of work in the book Consciousnesss edited by Goleman. Some of us feel convinced that there is enough evidence to justify believing that humans do have sensing and/or thinking capabilities beyond what can be explained by the neural networks of the brain alone, and of them some of us want to understand better what is going on and why.In past years, I would emphasize that I fully respect the view which Hebb presented... but that is less and less completely true. In www.werbos.com/Mind_in_Time.pdf (a paper published in Russia), I discuss the concept of sanity or zhengqi; in time, those who achieve true sanity -- open eyes, open heart -- are likely to HAVE the kinds of experience which propels one further, if one is not held back by the kind of irrational fears described in the NSF-funded peer-reviewed work of Greeley and McCready (reprinted in Goleman's anthology).
For example smelling is a faculty of beings, but there cant be anything like universal smelling. Similarly there is nothing like universal urination, divine defecation, etc. And consciousness cannot exist without the object of consciousness. If you are conscious, what are you conscious of?
None of this last part contradicts what I was saying, I think. When I spoke of higher intelligence in emergent networks of life the cosmos (or computers), I did not speak of infallible or omniscient intelligence -- even though parents may SEEMS omniscient compared to their babies. But yes, the word "conscious" is fuzzy enough that one could say it applies to a universe governed by a Lagrangian density -- or not; it is more important that we understand what such models tell us, than whether we append a label to them.
Swami Vivekananda questioned how many of us can think of infinity, except in terms of a big stretch of sky or a vast area of ocean. Consciousness certainly is a wonderful gift of nature, gift of a different kind and not of the same degree as the brain experiencing it. But I think we are following wrong leads by extending consciousness to universal levels or assuming it is billions of years old, when the universe itself is not more than fourteen billion years old.
Huh?You say it is illogical to assume a biology billions of years old, when we agree the universe is no younger than 14 billion years? That is inconsistent and illogical. Also, since my vision is not universal, I do not claim to see further than 10 billion years or so; I do not know how old it really is, and I do not have a firm belief about how much older it might be. I have looked into the evidence for general relativity., and been surprised at just how strong it is compared to all alternatives discussed and how well it fits experiment. But looking into the evidence for the variety of Big Bang theories, I am not really convinced, one way or another. The most "impressive data' is reconstructed by imputations based on particular theories. With new evidence that might change... but which way? In any case, 14 billion years is already a lot of time, when there is a truly huge connected field of play.Best of luck...
What is it that is common to everything in the Universe, and eternal too?
After all, by whatever science or logic we may use, something can never be transformed into absolutely nothing, and likewise absolutely nothing cannot be transformed into something.
Something exists, and it is eternal because it cannot be transformed into absolutely nothing, by science or otherwise.
Given this basic philosophical belief, any theory of the beginnings of our Universe, including the Big Bang, may at best be true, but incomplete though.
They tend to lead to more questions than the answers they present, and it is the unadulterated conceit and cussedness of some Scientists that such incomplete truths continue to be celebrated. Innocently?
It doesn't matter whether we deal with Universal smelling, urination or defecation - i'm sorry, but should we consider other human actions too?In any case, isn't it intriguing that we explicitly accept the absence of commonly acceptable definitions of consciousness and yet continue with our attempts to delve into Universal consciousness and other phenomena in our Universe, including urination and defecation.
Can we be humble enough to recognize and accept that currently we do not know that we do not know about some questions that are bound to arise in the future following every marginal or great discovery of Science?
Or, are we going to be conceited enough to reject the idea of the possibility of such questions arising? This only points to the incompleteness of Science, as we know and practice it, and not the incompetency of Scientists.
It is high time that die-hard Scientists learn to accept the eternal and universal limitations of Science, even granting all the glory and grandeur due to it.
Let us not forget for a moment that Faith exists at the edge of Science.
Best wishes,LSG.--------------------------------------------------------
To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAKx2H5X_qHvGW8jG_N5%3DV5YDFj5LfTdAYwqVgCi5kZKng%2BKuHg%40mail.gmail.com.
--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
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Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
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Thank you, dear Bruno, for your thoughtful response. I have not fully comprehended your Arithmetic Reality theory/model. Yet, my limited exposure does raise my curiosity to learn more about it. Your recent elucidation was definitely absorbing and useful.
My general belief while witnessing and participating minimally in this whole discussion about:
a) Consciousness,
b) its emergence and manifestations,
c) what came first,
d) free will and fate,
e) various models of our Universe and life in it, and so on,
is that for anything at all to exist, manifest and evolve, the potential or capacity to do so including the governing conditions, laws and rules (CLaR), and the meta CLaR, have to pre-exist first and foremost as the primal seed, and unconditionally too.
It is that something which would naturally be universal and eternal even while transcending or being beyond time and space as you have pointed out - i certainly accept that observation of yours fully. I wish to learn about the extent to which the logic of unconditional pre-existence of such a potential or capacity as the primal seed, would be correct or wrong. How can anything at all exist, happen, or evolve without the primitive, unconditional potential or capacity to do so?
The actual phenomena themselves clearly reveal the existence of both deterministic/certain aspects as well as non-deterministic/probabilistic aspects. In this sense, complete predictability of phenomena in our Universe, and their control, would be a mirage
that we can keep on chasing eternally. Perhaps the joys and excitement in our lives is due to the latter aspects.
Meanwhile, i must tender my deepest respects to so many of you who are participating with the greatest earnestness of intellectual purpose and sharing your insights and knowledge. Agreements, disagreements and alternative interpretations apart, what a fine
intellectual experience this continues to be for me. I am very, very grateful.
Dear Srinivasa,you wrote:>Just as lower level beings do not have consciousness that we humans have ...Can you, please, suggest any proof or evidence that "lower level beings do not have consciousness that we humans have". Instead, the firmly established facts tell us that every living organism demonstrates an expediently rational cognitive activity. If its cognitive activity would not be expediently rational, the organism could not stay alive.The doctrine that the human only is endowed with reason is antiscientific.Best,Serge Patlavskiy
From: Srinivasa Rao Kankipati <ksra...@gmail.com>
To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga@ googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] where we come from
Please help confirm if there exists a hierarchy of consciousness with different levels (combinations of capabilities), or not, in our world. We can then engage in discussions that could attempt to extend the "our world" context to larger systemic contexts,
including the entire Universe (or, multiverses?)
There is enough and more evidence today of consciousness in other living creatures ranging from the micro to the macro. The term "collective consciousness" in human society has also been researched into and written about.
We do not have sufficient evidence, in our frames of reference, about consciousness in non-living matter. Please let us shed and share more knowledge (already, there have been some e-mails on this topic in our group) about the possibility of consciousness
in energy. To what extent does Mother Nature reveal consciousness via her systems, processes and mechanisms?
We can observe that consciousness can be identified at least at two levels, viz., receiving and radiating? In the former, self-referencing processes and stimulus-response mechanisms and behaviour will be fascinating to examine deeply, or perhaps even feed forward mechanisms and behaviour. In the latter, in addition to the above two features, we should examine the process of radiation or explicit revelation of consciousness and its influences, and also the concept of "purpose". Other participants can suggest many other aspects that will warrant the generation of greater insights.
Here are a few of my questions or thoughts.
Am i alive right now as i am keying in this e-mail? Well, it seems that i am alive and conscious that i am alive (self-referencing is performed). But, as some folks may observe, "it's all maaya". Obviously, those folks received my information stimulus
and responded in good faith. So, we can infer that i have radiated "something", to those folks who received my stimulus and within their frames
of reference termed my experience as
"maaya" in good faith. But, this doesn't stop with this exchange. Here's another line of conscious observation and questioning.
Right now, i am alive, i.e., my entire being is physically alive, and would even be fit for the due certification medically and legally. Does this imply every conceivable geometric point within my body possesses life at this moment? Is each and every such geometric point within me capable of radiating life, or providing reflective information of the absence of life, and the attendant signals to some or all other points within my body? This line of observation and questioning is to point to the analogy about our Universe and consciousness within and permeating it (Universal consciousness?).
Perhaps, most or all of us would observe and agree that it is not necessary that every conceivable geometric point in our physical bodies (anna maya kosha) is alive or holds life. However, it is an observable fact that the presence or absence of life in every conceivable geometric point can be indicated through commonly acceptable procedures and mechanisms, or at least through some process of reasoning. Minimally, every conceivable geometric point should be capable of radiating or reflecting the presence or absence of life respectively. So what? Well, if we can observe and claim that we, as whole beings, are alive, i.e., life permeates our bodies and radiates its existence, despite the observable and/or acceptable fact of its absence in some or many of the conceivable geometric points within our bodies, why should we not extend this argument to our Universe and consciousness within and permeating it? Briefly, if we use the term "living human (noun)" or the term "human (adjective) life" and accept their ramifications, then why not "conscious Universe (noun)" or "Universal (adjective) consciousness"?
I will be grateful to learn from your responses that should force me to take deeper dives into observations, reasoning, inferring and believing.
--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
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Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
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M (Mind) – Consciousness: Mind is the first layer, which manifests on the surface of the cerebral region. As it becomes sharpened by the cultivation of learning, it evolves into a faculty called intellect.
SM (Subliminal-Mind) – Consciousness: The second level, which is below the surface mind, is the subliminal or subconscious mind. We are unaware of its potential and capabilities, which may seem incredible to the surface mind. Many daily activities are governed by the subconscious mind.
F (Feeling-Mind) – Consciousness: The third level is the feeling mind. This feeling-consciousness generally prevails in the heart area and can thus be called the Heart of Heart-Consciousness. It includes an emotional faculty called intuition. Almost all mothers have this faculty naturally available and readily accessible to help them understand the intense needs of their children and people they care about.
H (Emotional-Heart) – Consciousness: The fourth layer is the deeper heart where you feel emotions with even greater intensity. This can be called the spiritual heart, or your inner consciousness. The presence of the surface mind is reduced and the presence of subliminal or subconscious mind is enhanced. It is formed by impressions gathered through what you have learned and experienced along with the memory of your personality.
HS (Heart-Soul) – Consciousness: The fifth level is between the deeper heart and the ultimate essential being (Soul). Here you experience inner-space and the Mystical Universe, where the laws of physics start reversing and lead you to experience many alternative realities and possibilities that give access to your own soul. Here you become more connected with Nature and the forces of the Universe.
PS (Pure-Self) – Consciousness: The sixth layer is Core-Consciousness. This is the very essence of your whole presence and of everything that you feel, think and do. It is addressed as Soul or Self. [Arka 2013] (pp. 37–38)
Definitely higher consciousness may be existing. Just as lower level beings do not have consciousness that we humans have, some among us may be having the faculty of a higher type of consciousness. But imagination may be running riot in assuming that consciousness is an ocean, with salt or sweet water.
Nobody has so far proved that life is an ocean, all the same life exists in all living beings. I feel we need not unnecessarily elevate any human faculty to a universal level, and postulate that bits of it are permeating human beings. For example smelling is a faculty of beings, but there cant be anything like universal smelling. Similarly there is nothing like universal urination, divine defecation, etc. And consciousness cannot exist without the object of consciousness. If you are conscious, what are you conscious of? Swami Vivekananda questioned how many of us can think of infinity, except in terms of a big stretch of sky or a vast area of ocean. Consciousness certainly is a wonderful gift of nature, gift of a different kind and not of the same degree as the brain experiencing it. But I think we are following wrong leads by extending consciousness to universal levels or assuming it is billions of years old, when the universe itself is not more than fourteen billion years old.
Please help confirm if there exists a hierarchy of consciousness with different levels (combinations of capabilities), or not, in our world. We can then engage in discussions that could attempt to extend the "our world" context to larger systemic contexts, including the entire Universe (or, multiverses?)
There is enough and more evidence today of consciousness in other living creatures ranging from the micro to the macro. The term "collective consciousness" in human society has also been researched into and written about.
We do not have sufficient evidence, in our frames of reference, about consciousness in non-living matter. Please let us shed and share more knowledge (already, there have been some e-mails on this topic in our group) about the possibility of consciousness in energy. To what extent does Mother Nature reveal consciousness via her systems, processes and mechanisms?
We can observe that consciousness can be identified at least at two levels, viz., receiving and radiating? In the former, self-referencing processes and stimulus-response mechanisms and behaviour will be fascinating to examine deeply, or perhaps even feed forward mechanisms and behaviour.
In the latter, in addition to the above two features, we should examine the process of radiation or explicit revelation of consciousness and its influences, and also the concept of "purpose". Other participants can suggest many other aspects that will warrant the generation of greater insights.
Here are a few of my questions or thoughts.
Am i alive right now as i am keying in this e-mail? Well, it seems that i am alive and conscious that i am alive (self-referencing is performed). But, as some folks may observe, "it's all maaya". Obviously, those folks received my information stimulus and responded in good faith. So, we can infer that i have radiated "something", to those folks who received my stimulus and within their frames of reference termed my experience as "maaya" in good faith. But, this doesn't stop with this exchange.
Here's another line of conscious observation and questioning.
Right now, i am alive, i.e., my entire being is physically alive, and would even be fit for the due certification medically and legally. Does this imply every conceivable geometric point within my body possesses life at this moment? Is each and every such geometric point within me capable of radiating life, or providing reflective information of the absence of life, and the attendant signals to some or all other points within my body? This line of observation and questioning is to point to the analogy about our Universe and consciousness within and permeating it (Universal consciousness?).
Dear Paul
Your post on reality, made me pause and think about the disquiet I have been feeling for some time about the direction of the posts in the past few months.
Your final line about answers being different for different persons was, of course, a big relief. My disquiet is related to the absence of “mention” of emotions in all the discussions. There is lot of passion and even anger displayed in the posts but no discussion of emotions like love or compassion or their importance.
I would say that the bedrock of reality is “Love” not “Lagrangian”. It is the extraordinary joy and love that makes one feel that there is unity and everything is connected. Every description of the peak experience talks about unity. It is love that brings one down to earth (or to “village”, in Bruno’s language, “along with a little ego, wanting to help others”, as he put it). The ego goes away during the experience.
There are many ways of describing reality. The trouble with using Lagrangian formalism, as basic reality, in my opinion, is that science knowing human beings are then essential to describe it. Our understanding of history of the universe , at present, allows for the presence of human beings only for a very short period in this history, though we believe that universal soul or consciousness is always there. You may be aware of the conversations between Rabindranath Tagore and Einstein, where they disagreed about having a reality without any observers.
In life sciences and even in many parts of chemistry, a microscopic (Lagrangian) description is not useful. Secondary concepts like valence or hydrogen bonding are much more helpful.
While the proposed experiments by you or Jack Sarafati will revolutionise quantum description and natural science, they will not affect the ethical , moral framework given by spirituality. The mental thumb rules like “Advaita” and “Do unto others as you would that they do unto you “ need holistic realisations, not natural science, like even Feynman had pointed out.
I find ,there is too much of mind and too little of heart in our discussions.
Be here and now. Love and be joyful.
Warm regards
Panchu
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----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
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Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
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Fifth International Conference
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August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
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Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
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Dear Paul
Your post on reality, made me pause and think about the disquiet I have been feeling for some time about the direction of the posts in the past few months.
Your final line about answers being different for different persons was, of course, a big relief. My disquiet is related to the absence of “mention” of emotions in all the discussions. There is lot of passion and even anger displayed in the posts but no discussion of emotions like love or compassion or their importance.
I would say that the bedrock of reality is “Love” not “Lagrangian”. It is the extraordinary joy and love that makes one feel that there is unity and everything is connected. Every description of the peak experience talks about unity. It is love that brings one down to earth (or to “village”, in Bruno’s language, “along with a little ego, wanting to help others”, as he put it). The ego goes away during the experience.
In life sciences and even in many parts of chemistry, a microscopic (Lagrangian) description is not useful. Secondary concepts like valence or hydrogen bonding are much more helpful.
While the proposed experiments by you or Jack Sarafati will revolutionise quantum description and natural science, they will not affect the ethical , moral framework given by spirituality.
I find ,there is too much of mind and too little of heart in our discussions.
Be here and now.
Dear Panchu,
I could not agree with you more about the importance of love.
But you seem to have missed my dialogue about it with several of the contributors on these pages.
So here I send my basic article about it to you pasted again for your attention and comments.
The only other point I would make is the all inclusiveness of the love I write about.
The cosmic-personal almighty lover, that HShe (i.e. the fusion of He and She, Shiva and Shakti) is all inclusive.
HShe is in all of us and includes every one of us without exception. Hse is not just emotional. Hse is trans-emotional, therefore utterly devotional. The only One who can love everyone individually and all collectively.
Hence in SHim we, from SHim we can derive our only authentic cosmic-psychosocial-personal identity.
The task is to move from divisive emotion and fragmenting surface rationality to the unifying depth devotionality of this Lover.
Humillimus Servus,
Andris
TOWARDS AN INTEGRAL SCIENCE OF LIVING CONSCIOUSNESS OR CONSCIOUS LIVING.
© Andris Heks 18.08.2017
Can we transcend our perhaps futile attempts to talk about consciousness on its own rather than attempting to experience and then to describe the seamless union of primal eternal consciousness and primal eternal life as the united aspects of the most primal cosmic cause of all: the Eternal Being of Love, the ‘I AM’, that is both the One eternally unmanifest potential whole and His-Her (HShe) eternally changing, transient material forms.
At this point I must declare my own biases: I come from a Hungarian youth, blessed with intimacy with arguably the most ancient, holistic and perhaps a Golden Age (Krita Yuga) derived, incredibly wise mother tongue: Hungarian.
I am nearly 71 and I have lived in Australia since the age of 18 and for the last forty years I immersed myself in Psycho- and Yoga therapies as a Social Worker.
In particular, I intensively trained and practiced in my work, simultaneously, in the arguably most powerful experiential Western psychotherapy, Dr Jacob Moreno’s Psychodrama and the most powerful holistic Eastern experiential spiritual discipline in Integral Yoga.
Having tried to integrate the two, the last few years I have also been working on integrating Yoga with religious Faith.
Having been a sworn materialist atheist for thirty years, since a few years ago, I have come to the experiential realisation of the nonsense of my atheistic position and the absolute necessity of unshakable Faith if I was ever gain a glimpse of the truth.
I am impressed by the claim that reason and faith are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to contemplate the truth.
Amen to this!
In particular, I have been working lately on integrating the Yogic and Christian takes on the nature of truth.
By constantly referring back to the ancient wisdom in my monistic Hungarian mother tongue and attempting to articulate it in English, I may be in the position to make a humble contribution towards trying to gain a verifiable glimpse of Transcendental Love; the very essence of Living Consciousness.
The Hungarian has a word for such love, that is absent in English.
That word is the extraordinarily wise word of ‘SZERELEM’.
The equivalent word in Hungarian to the English word ‘Love’ is ‘Szeretet’.
But while the Hungarian word ‘Szerelem’ subsumes ‘Szeretet’, the English concept of love, it is far more comprehensive, is deeper, and it is primordially fundamental.
It is a combination of Eros, Filial love, Agape and Caritas; transcendental and human love, in a stunning claim to be the Logos of all!
Let me present to you some of the linguistic evidence that I deciphered over the years, about why this may be so.
First, it is important to understand about the holistic Hungarian language, that it derives from the perception of the Whole and the words then depict aspects of this whole in an entanglement in cause-effect chains.
As if they were constituting interconnected pieces of a pre-existing but infinitely expanding jigsaw puzzle.
So, in the word ‘Szerelem’ we have a number of fundamental and causally related etymons in a stunning unfolding of meaningful explanation.
The first syllable is ‘szer’.
Szer is in turn constitutes the first three letters of ‘szerv’ from which the ‘szerv’ word itself and its further extension ‘szervezet’ clearly derive.
Now, ‘szerv’ means ‘organ’ and ‘szervezet’ means ‘organisation.’
The former: ‘organ’ clearly stems from the latter: ‘organisation.’
So now we have a stunning insight here about the Hungarian ‘szerelem’, i.e. the ‘primordal love’ concept, that begins to point to its fundamentally primal nature.
It tells us already in the first syllable that ‘love’ organises!
And once we have deciphered the rest of this word, it becomes crystal clear that love is the primal living organising principle of all!!!
So, let’s go on analysing the word ‘szerelem’, because a number of amazing meanings emerge from such analysis, all pointing to the absolute primacy of ‘Szerelem’; the notion of its being the essence of a Living, Loving, Cosmically and Personally Conscious Being.
So, within the first syllable of ‘szer’ we have a smaller irreducible etymon: ‘er’.
Now, ‘er’ in turn is the first syllable of ‘eredet’, that is ‘origin’ in English.
Wow, now we are getting further!
So, we learn here that szerelem is not only organising but it is also the originally, and therefore, arguably, the eternally organising factor.
This is also stunningly confirmed in the Sanskrit word for love: ‘prem’.
That is, because ‘prem’ is also the etymon of ‘premium’, primal and therefore the very first!
In case you are still not convinced, lets go to the next critical part of the word, 'szerelem'.
It is, of course, ‘elem’.
And elem is the Hungarian word for the English ‘element’!
Hey!
So, what we have learnt so far is that perhaps there is an ancient Hungarian realisation, that szerelem (Love) is the primal organising element of the Cosmos!
I rest my case!
O.K. But what does this have to do, even if true, with consciousness and life?
Lets go back to the word szerelem, because we might just find our trump cards in it.
(Unpolluted by President Trump).
So, szerELem, also have the critical etymon, ‘el’ in it.
It is the root of both ‘ELeven=lively and ‘ELme’=mind or consciousness.
((‘Lively’ (eleven) is the root element of Life (‘ÉLet’)).
So, what we have here in szerelem is: the primally original element of all organising love with its two intrinsic aspects of life and consciousness seamlessly present as constituents of His-Her One Being!
Why ‘being’? Because it or more correctly, HShe
(I coined this term as English lacks it, as the ‘union of He and She’)
is living and is conscious.
Can I now rest my case?!
Of course, this is the beginning and not the end of the story, because Hungarian also teaches us how such Loving Spirit materialises and manifests itself in the human Soul and how such Soul derives, is sustained by and returns to such eternally living and organising Loving Spirit.
I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
Andris Heks
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On Tue, Sep 05, 2017 at 06:50:48PM +0000, John Jay Kineman wrote:
> We need to understand that we 'know' physics because of modeling relations
> between reality and mental models of it. Whether from experiment or other
> experience what we can know are only the models.
That's a questionable claim. To have a model, it's necessary to have access
to the reality it resembles. Otherwise all we would have to compare models
to is other models; there'd be no way to ground or prove them against
reality. While it may be that to know a reality we need both access to it
_and_ models, that's a different claim, that modeling and perception go hand
in hand.
In any case, you can't have "modeling relations between reality and mental
models" unless you have, on the one hand, direct experience of reality, and
on the other, experience of models which capture various aspects of it.
Best,
Whit
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