SAND Italy 2018

[Cosmin Visan]

Hi all,

I will be presenting at the Science & Nonduality conference in Italy about the ideas in my paper The Emergent Structure of Consciousness. My presentation will take place on Sunday, 8th July, 16:10 - 16:45, in Principe Room at the Titignano Castle venue where the conference will be held. The full program can be seen here: https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/sand18-italy/program/
Also, my ideas can be found in details here: https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan

Anyone else there? :D

[Cosmin Visan]

My presentation is now online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jMAy6ft-ZQ

[Anirudh Satsangi]

Congrats to Cosmin for the presentation of his paper The Emergent Structure of Consciousness.  I would like to read this paper.

Regards 

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi

--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
(All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act)
 
Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Online_Sadhu_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/534defaa-237d-49fd-8792-909ebb9317c3%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Cosmin Visan]

Thanks. My papers can be found here: https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan

[Atomic Avatar]

Just watched it...Wonderful talk/presentation Cosmin!

Congratulations 

On Thu 4 Oct 2018, 01:08 'Cosmin Visan' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com wrote:

My presentation is now online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jMAy6ft-ZQ

--
----------------------------
Sixth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2018
October 26—27, 2018
Auditorium, Campus 6, KIIT Deemed to be University, Bhubaneswar, Odisha, India
http://scienceandscientist.org/conference/2018

 
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
(All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act)
 
Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Online_Sadhu_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/78039fd3-14ac-449c-b8ee-ae4777ce0593%40googlegroups.com.

[Korla Swaroopa]

Really so nice..

Thank you for valuable Information. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAJxJBEP-0pUnw4JHXtyabTi127%3Ddv0-h42sEDSBNoE5th5SX0g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Juyang Weng]

I would like to hear also computational account, especially the learning account, of the qualitative phenomena in the presentation about consciousness.

It seems that this computational account, especially the learning account, is not hopeless:

A Model for Auto-Programming for General Purposeshttps://arxiv.org

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAJxJBEP-0pUnw4JHXtyabTi127%3Ddv0-h42sEDSBNoE5th5SX0g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Cosmin Visan]

Thank you guys!

I'll be also presenting on the poster session at The Science of Consciousness at Interlaken this year about "The Self-Referential Aspect of Consciousness", so if anyone's there, just let me know.

[Robert Boyer]

Cosmin,

 I hope in your talk at the conference on consciousness that you make the fundamental distinction between 'self-referential' and 'self-referral.'

In case you are interested, here is an excerpt from my book Pointless: The Reality Behind Quantum Theory, that emphasizes this crucial distinction:

"Tacit in the concept of two opposite qualities is a third quality: their interaction. These three qualities also relate to the trinity of observer, observed, and process of observing, which interact or ‘curve back’ onto the observer—directly corresponding to subject, object, and predicate. This cyclic reverberation or ‘curving back’ expressed to various degrees throughout phenomenal nature is described, for example, in the Vedic text the Bhagavad-Gītā. It is translated by Maharishi as:

“Prakṛtim swam avashtabhya visrijami punah.

Curving back upon My own Nature, I create again and again (Bhagavad Gita 9.8).” ¹⁰ (p. 37)

The ‘curving back’ is a way of explaining phenomenal levels as degrees of self-interaction: 1) infinitely self-interacting field (infinity in each point), 2) finite nonlocal self-interacting field with interdependence/entanglement, and 3) gross finite local field of independent objects with self-interacting dynamics less expressed. These three levels relate to three levels of self-interaction or ‘curving back upon itself.’ In Sāṁkḣya, Prakṛiti can be associated more with self-interacting, and Puruśa with self-referral. The unified field of universal Being infinitely curving back or referring back to itself also means self-referral. A distinction can be made between objects that are self-interacting, and the more integrated concept of self-referral, which refers to not being only self-interacting but also aware of itself, referring back to nothing other than itself.

Self-interacting relates a little more to objectivity. Self-referral emphasizes subjectivity. Self-referral also can be distinguished from the concept of object-referral. Object-referral relates to the ordinary definition of consciousness as ‘awareness of a separate object of experience.’ This is associated with the ordinary waking state of consciousness. In this object-referral state, a distinction can further be made between reflective thinking (about a separate object of experience) and self-reflective thinking (thinking about oneself as an individual object of thought).  [This is also called 'self-referential, distinct from 'self-referral.]

These aspects of ordinary waking object-referral thinking can be distinguished from self-referral consciousness, in which there is no object of experience other than consciousness itself. Discussed in later chapters, it refers to pure consciousness itself, in which the trinity of object, process of observing, and observer is transcended....

In the completely unified field, there is infinite self-referral—Self-referral. In the subtle and gross relative levels, there are finite relative degrees, perhaps better characterized as subtle dynamics and gross mechanics of self-interaction. In the subtle relative level, the ‘curving back’ can be thought of as a more limited reference to the individual self, frequently expressed as self-reflection or self-referential, but not self-referral awareness itself.

In its deepest sense, self-referral refers to the Self inherently awake to Itself; that is, consciousness itself, referring to nothing other than itself. We will discuss direct experience of the unity of universal and individual self-referral consciousness associated with the highest state of consciousness later in the book."

I hope this is useful clarification of consciousness itself as self-referral, as distinct from 'being conscious of something else,' which is 'self-referential.'

Thanks for considering it.

Best wishes,

Bob  

On Friday, February 15, 2019, 9:22:14 AM CST, 'Cosmin Visan' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thank you guys!

I'll be also presenting on the poster session at The Science of Consciousness at Interlaken this year about "The Self-Referential Aspect of Consciousness", so if anyone's there, just let me know.

--
----------------------------
Sixth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2018
October 26—27, 2018
Auditorium, Campus 6, KIIT Deemed to be University, Bhubaneswar, Odisha, India
http://scienceandscientist.org/conference/2018
 
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
(All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act)
 
Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Online_Sadhu_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/efc71465-6be9-4114-889a-59cfff68c074%40googlegroups.com.

[Cosmin Visan]

Interesting comment. Using your vocabulary, my presentation would be about what you call "self-referral". Of course, in my presentation I will use the term "self-referential", simply because it sounds more natural to me, but basically I would be talking about the entity called "self-reference" that looks-back-at-itself eternally. And because of this looking-back-at-itself, self-reference includes and transcendes itself both at the same time, and thus gives birth to the emergent structure of consciousness presented in the SAND video. The Self is thus that first object that self-reference finds in itself when it looks-back-at-itself. You can read more in my paper with the same name. Also, I would be interested to read more about the chapter in which you say you discuss the self-referral, so maybe if you can send it to me at visanc...@yahoo.com.

[Robert Boyer]

Thanks much for the reply, Cosmin. I'm happy that in your talk you are going to discuss 'looking-back-at-itself' in terms of the nature of consciousness. I don't want to quibble about language in a way that might detract from the excellent point you are wanting to cover in your talk about the 'curving 'back' dynamics of consciousness. That is so important, and I respect very much your understanding of it.

I do hope as you think about it you will consider how 'self-referral' is a more descriptive term (and is the term Maharishi Mahesh Yogi emphasized). 'Self-referential' sounds similar, but also in my view contains more of an emphasis on 'reference,' which is more suggestive of identifying something other than itself. It is in this sense that to me the term 'self-referential' is better used to label the concept of 'awareness of' something other than itself, which relates to the ordinary waking state of consciousness in which there is a separate experiencer/process of experiencing/object of experience (subject-object duality), that is transcended in the state of consciousness itself. These are delicate and very important issues, with gigantic implications for mental practices and states of consciousness. It is key to the difference between consciousness as 'awareness of' and pure consciousness-which is the 4th state of consciousness, transcendental consciousness. 

But this request to consider terminology does not take away from my respect for your recognition of the importance of what you are doing to clarify consciousness. I much appreciate and do see what I'm learning about your work so far as of crucial importance.

Also, thanks for expressing interest in the chapter of my book I drew from on this topic. I can send you the chapter, but I'd even prefer to send you the book because it deals with this key point in many different sections. Are you in the US or somewhere I can easily/cheaply send a hard copy? If so, please send me the address you'd like me to use. If not, then I can work with the email address you sent.

Thanks again, and best wishes,

Bob

--
----------------------------
Sixth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2018
October 26—27, 2018
Auditorium, Campus 6, KIIT Deemed to be University, Bhubaneswar, Odisha, India
http://scienceandscientist.org/conference/2018
 
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
(All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act)
 
Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Online_Sadhu_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/f46f6682-07e3-4976-8bb3-a4db66064668%40googlegroups.com.

[Cosmin Visan]

I am from Bucharest, Romania. Let's discuss this further by email exchange. I will wait for your email. Thanks.