violating laws of nature!
Vasavada, Kashyap V
Dear Vinod and Kushal,
Suspending or violating laws of nature!!!
OK with me as long as what you are saying is not called science!
I will not take you to court, but police or your doctor may ask you, did you violate any laws of nature?!!
Well, seriously, this is not uncommon for some religious practitioners. There is a Christian physicist on another blog who argues that resurrection of Christ was so important that God did bend laws of nature temporarily!
As long as you are talking about mind and consciousness, it is fine to assume that there could be different laws. But according to my understanding , in talking about siddhis you are encroaching the domain of physics. You cannot get away with violations of established laws, unless you empirically prove these phenomena. If you prove them then, physicists will have to rethink about the laws. If you cannot establish siddhis empirically, question of siddhis will remain strictly a matter of belief. You are not going to convince anyone who does not already believe in them. Laws of science cannot be discarded when they are inconvenient to your beliefs. All of us use science all day! I hope, I am not excessively blunt!
Best.
Kashyap
From: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL [mailto:vinodse...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2018 6:38 AM
To: Vasavada, Kashyap V <vasa...@iupui.edu>; Kushal Shah <atma...@gmail.com>
Cc: Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <rlpv...@yahoo.co.in>; Robert Boyer <rw.b...@yahoo.com>; Dean Radin <dra...@noetic.org>; Murty Hari <murty...@yahoo.com>; Siegfried Bleher <sbl...@msn.com>; Stanley A. KLEIN <skl...@berkeley.edu>; Asingh2384 <asing...@aol.com>;
sisir roy <sisir.s...@gmail.com>; George Weissmann <georg...@aol.com>; BT APJ <alfredo...@gmail.com>; Whit Blauvelt <wh...@csmind.com>; Alex Hankey <alexh...@gmail.com>; Bernard Baars <baa...@gmail.com>; BVKSastry(Gmail) <sastr...@gmail.com>;
Paul Werbos <paul....@gmail.com>; Ralph Frost <ralph...@gmail.com>; Joseph McCard <joseph....@gmail.com>; an...@cise.ufl.edu
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: Dependent co-origination and conditions vs. causality: extended dual-aspect monism
All siddhis emanate from a powerful Sankalpa of a Yogi and the Sankalpa of a Yogi is derived from all-powerful Cosmic Consciousness (CC). All the laws operating in nature are also due to Sankalpa of CC, as taken at the primordial time. When a Yogi takes a Sankalpa, as derived from CC, the laws of nature suspend/alter/change temporarily and locally to accommodate and fulfill the Sankalpa of the Yogi. There should be no wonder in this. A crude analogy from the mundane point of view. Today you may take some Sankalpa as based on the power of President Trump. You will see that all the bureaucrats./ officials down all the hierarchical lines automatically become ready to change rules/regulations to accommodate and fulfill your Sankalpa
On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 3:13 PM, Vasavada, Kashyap V <vasa...@iupui.edu> wrote:
Dear Kushal,
I am following your discussion with Ram and Vinod on Siddhis with interest for sure. But let me interject one limitation from current knowledge of particle physics.
KS: “But the body can surely be disintegrated into energy, and a new body can be reassembled from pure energy.”
KV: It is true that E=mc^2, but that does not mean any particle by itself can be converted into energy! There are various conservation laws such as charge, lepton number, baryon number etc. So for example a single electron or a proton (charged of course) cannot be converted into energy. Its charge has to be conserved, even if there is violation of lepton or baryon number conservation. To annihilate an electron you will need a positron, to annihilate a proton you will need antiproton etc. Human body suddenly on its own cannot disintegrate into energy. If you find this it will be a sensational earth shaking and Nobel prize winning discovery!
Best.
Kashyap
From: Kushal Shah [mailto:atma...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2018 3:37 AM
To: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodse...@gmail.com>
Cc: Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <rlpv...@yahoo.co.in>; Robert Boyer <rw.b...@yahoo.com>; Dean Radin <dra...@noetic.org>; Murty Hari <murty...@yahoo.com>; Siegfried Bleher <sbl...@msn.com>; Stanley A. KLEIN <skl...@berkeley.edu>; Vasavada, Kashyap V <vasa...@iupui.edu>; Asingh2384 <asing...@aol.com>; sisir roy <sisir.s...@gmail.com>; George Weissmann <georg...@aol.com>; BT APJ <alfredo...@gmail.com>; Whit Blauvelt <wh...@csmind.com>; Alex Hankey <alexh...@gmail.com>; Bernard Baars <baa...@gmail.com>; BVKSastry(Gmail) <sastr...@gmail.com>; Paul Werbos <paul....@gmail.com>; Ralph Frost <ralph...@gmail.com>; Joseph McCard <joseph....@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dependent co-origination and conditions vs. causality: extended dual-aspect monism
I can't think of any way by which the human body can be compressed to the size of an atom. But the body can surely be disintegrated into energy, and a new body can be reassembled from pure energy. So we need to change the language used to describe this idea. It's not about compression or expansion, but transformation. Systems with different length scales cannot function the same way.
Best,
Kushal.
_________________________________________
Kushal Shah @ EECS Dept, IISER Bhopal
http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals
On Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 12:52 PM VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodse...@gmail.com> wrote:
But perfection and going beyond all limitations of the body may also include making body as smaller as the size of an atom
On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Kushal Shah <atma...@gmail.com> wrote:
Vinod, as I mentioned earlier, PYS III.45 decribes Anima siddhi as the ability to gain perfection of body and go beyond all limitations. Now what perfection and limitations mean in this context is not clear.
Best,
Kushal.
_________________________________________
Kushal Shah @ EECS Dept, IISER Bhopal
http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals
On Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 11:31 AM VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodse...@gmail.com> wrote:
Kushal,
What is your serious view on the definition/concept of Anima? Please clarify and elaborate the same.
Vinod Sehgal
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 7:29 PM, Kushal Shah <atma...@gmail.com> wrote:
Vinod, we can't really have a serious discussion based on popular notions.
Best,
Kushal.
_________________________________________
Kushal Shah @ EECS Dept, IISER Bhopal
http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 5:35 PM VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodse...@gmail.com> wrote:
But the popular notion about the meaning of Anima , as prevalent in Yogic Community, is to become as small as an atom.
In the case of Aadi Shankar, it is his Astral body which had entered the King's physical body to know about the sexual experience
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Kushal Shah <atma...@gmail.com> wrote:
Vinod, as I mentioned in one of my earlier emails, Patanjali Yoga Sutra mentions anima siddhi in verse III.45 but does not say that it is about becoming as small as an atom. It says anima is about achieving perfection of the body. But what 'perfection' means is not defined in this text.
Best,Kushal.
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 4:42 PM VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodse...@gmail.com> wrote:
These 8 Siddhis are also mentioned in Patanjali Yog Darshan and there should be no reason to disbelieve.
On Friday, July 20, 2018, Kushal Shah <atma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Vinod, please note that this definition of anima (becoming as small as an atom) is only reported in some ancient scriptures (not in PYS) and I am also not aware of any Yogi having reported demonstrating it him/herself or having seen someone else do it. Yogananda lists having seen several siddhi demonstrations by various Yogis but as far as I remember, anima was not one of them. Hence, even from the subjective experience perspective, there is very little evidence for this siddhi.
> Also, in Adi Sankaracharya's life, he once left his body to enter that of a King to learn about the sexual process. Why did he not simply transform his body into something else? He was by far the finest Yogi India has ever produced!
> No matter how enlightened one becomes, there is always some barrier that one cannot cross.
>
> Best,
> Kushal.
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 3:49 PM VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> During Anima, a human body may not remain a human body composed of atoms/molecules. It may transform to respective Tanmaatras as per the Sankalpa of Yogi. On withdrawal of Sankalpa, the Tanmaatras may again transform back to atoms/molecules to create a physical body composed of atoms/molecules. The Sankalpa of a Yogi carries great powers since it is derived from pure Cosmic Consciousness. It is the Sankalpa of pure CC which led to the creation of matter and physical energy as scattered in vast galaxies, stars and planets, So there should be no wonder if the Sankalpa of a Yogis, as derived from CC, is able to transform matter of physical body in Tanmaatras and vice versa at some localized small scales.
> All laws appeared in the universe at the primordial stage as per the Sankalpa of CC. When a Yogi makes a Sankalpa, as based on the power of CC, Laws at the localized level can remain suspended/alter./change temporarily to complete the Sankalapa of the Yogi. So Siddhis can't be understood as per the present knowledge and laws of Science particularly Physics. A crude analogy. When President Trump makes a Sankalapa for doing something specific in USA. which is out of conformity with prevalent Laws, laws/rules/regulations down all the hierarchical levels may alter/modified to accommodate the Sankalpa of Trump. And Trump is the head of Govt of a small piece of land on earth only
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 7:32 PM, Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <rlpv...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
> Dear Vinod ji,
> Thanks.
> If you think that 8 Siddhis are not Yogic fiction, then please address Kushal’s comment.
>
> Cheers!
> Kind regards,
>
> Rām
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Rām Lakhan Pāndey Vimal, Ph.D.
>
> Amarāvati-Hīrāmaṇi Professor (Research)
>
> Vision Research Institute Inc, Physics, Neuroscience, & Consciousness Research Dept.
>
> 25 Rita Street, Lowell, MA 01854 USA
>
> Ph: +1 978 954 7522; eFAX: +1 440 388 7907
>
> rlpv...@yahoo.co.in; http://sites.google.com/site/rlpvimal/Home
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ram_Lakhan_Pandey_Vimal
>
> Researched at University of Chicago and Harvard Medical Schools
>
> On Thursday, 19 July, 2018, 8:36:42 AM GMT-4, VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 8 Siddhis are not Yogic fiction since Yogis possessing these Siddhis stand by high moral values of truth in Mansa, Vaacha, karmaas ( in mind, in speech and in action) in their entire life. The problem is with regard to the present knowledge of science which is based on an incomplete knowledge of nature and laws operating thereupon. With an incomplete scientific knowledge of nature of a fraction of the entire nature, it is not possible to understand Siddhis
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 5:21 PM, Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <rlpv...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
> Dear Kushal,
> Thanks.
> If you are correct then 8 siddhis are yogic fiction. Do you agree?
>
>
> Cheers!
> Kind regards,
>
> Rām
>
> ------------------------------ ----------------------------
>
> Rām Lakhan Pāndey Vimal, Ph.D.
>
> Amarāvati-Hīrāmaṇi Professor (Research)
>
> Vision Research Institute Inc, Physics, Neuroscience, & Consciousness Research Dept.
>
> 25 Rita Street, Lowell, MA 01854 USA
>
> Ph: +1 978 954 7522; eFAX: +1 440 388 7907
>
> rlpv...@yahoo.co.in; http:// sites.google.com/site/ rlpvimal/Home
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/ profile/Ram_Lakhan_Pandey_ Vimal
>
> Researched at University of Chicago and Harvard Medical Schools
>
> On Wednesday, 18 July, 2018, 11:13:57 PM GMT-4, Kushal Shah <atma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Ram,
> I don't think the human body can remain intact if reduced to that small a size.
> Best,
> Kushal.
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 4:26 AM Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <rlpv...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
> The transition from quantum to quotidian
>
> As per (Folger, 2018), “The microscopic and macroscopic worlds do not blend seamlessly: the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics reigns over the first, whereas the second observes more logical “classical” rules. Physicists have long been stymied over the question of where one realm ends and the other begins, but upcoming experiments offer hope of testing different theories. One possibility, called continuous spontaneous localization, suggests that quantum probabilities randomly collapse into classical certainties. If true, these collapses would also create a sea of background vibrations in the universe that experiments could detect. […] Can a single macroscopic object be in two places at once? Could something the size of a pinhead, say, exist both here and there at the same time? That seemingly impossible condition is actually the norm for atoms, photons and all other particles. According to the surreal laws of quantum theory, reality at its most basic level defies our commonsense assumptions: Particles do not have fixed positions, energies or any other definite properties—at least while no one is looking. They exist in numerous states simultaneously. […] Really big things—meaning anything from a virus on up—always manifest in one place and one place only. […] Continuous Spontaneous Localization [CSL…] the collapse of the wave function to a single possibility is a random event, not caused by human or environmental interference. The chances of any one particle collapsing at any given time are extremely small, but in macroscopic objects containing multitudes of atoms, the collapse of at least one is inevitable, which then causes the entire structure to collapse. […] One idea—known as continuous spontaneous localization, or CSL—is that wave function collapse is simply a random event occurring constantly in the microscopic world. According to CSL, the chance that any one particle will collapse is extremely rare—it might happen once in hundreds of millions of years—but for large aggregates of particles, collapse becomes a certainty. […] If CSL is real, measurement and observation have no role in collapse. In any measurement, a given particle and the devices recording it become part of an immense quantum array that very rapidly collapses. Although it seems as if the particle went from a superposition to an actual position during a measurement, this transformation happened as soon as the particle interacted with the devices, before the measurement occurred. […] The CSL model, for example, predicts that the action of collapse imparts a slight jiggle to particles, creating an omnipresent background vibration that might be detectable in experiments. “The collapse [in CSL] is something universal for micro and macro systems,” Bassi says. “Every time there is a collapse, you move the particle a little.” […“]You’d still have many worlds for electrons or atoms—but not for the moon!”[ Igor Pikovski].”
>
> In other words, an atomic size (10−10 m) particle or smaller than it can be in more than one place simultaneously. Therefore, if you want to be at multiple locations simultaneously, you need to reduce your size smaller than an atom as it can happen in Aṇimā (अणिमा: reducing one's body even to the size of an atom: one of the eight yogic siddhis). Hanuman ji, Ganesh ji, Surya deva, Tridevas, Sai Baba of Shirdi, and many other Siddhi-attained yogis presumably able to do that and had the 8 siddhis; this may explain paranormal phenomena such as being at multiple locations simultaneously and then returning to normal size thru Mahimā (महिमा).
> This is what the eDAM speculates for the dual-aspect entities in the subtle world below Planck level (10−35 m), which is different from Sāṅkhya’s entities in the subtle world. The Sāṅkhya’s subtle entities 5 tanmātras, 10 indriyas, manas, buddhi, Ahaṃkāra, chitta, etc are precise as if they are classical entities; whereas as QM itself is probabilistic and a quantum state is composed of the superposition of many basis states; so they are blurry and have uncertainties. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that Sāṅkhya’s subtle entities are below Planck level. Most likely they are the non-physical aspect of a state of a mind-brain system, which arises because of the 1st person perspective of viewing; the non-physical aspect is inseparable with the physical aspect of the state of the mind-brain system. The eDAM subtle entities’ states also have the superposition of multiple basis states during A
>
> --
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Kushal Shah @ EECS Dept, IISER Bhopal
> http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals
>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kushal Shah @ EECS Dept, IISER Bhopal
http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals
--
----------------------------
Sixth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2018
October 26—27, 2018
Auditorium, Campus 6, KIIT Deemed to be University, Bhubaneswar, Odisha, India
http://scienceandscientist.org/conference/2018
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
(All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act)
Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Online_Sadhu_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/576729249c1444208e247e8d6041ad70%40BL-CCI-D1S08.ads.iu.edu.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Kushal Shah
Kushal Shah @ EECS Dept, IISER Bhopal
http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/66f9d43269b0439abece77e904dc51a3%40BL-CCI-D1S08.ads.iu.edu.
Vasavada, Kashyap V
Dear Kushal,
OK. Let us be fair. Can you give one source which discusses verifiable theory of matter other than science ? Probably not Vedas, Upanishads and Puranas, or eastern and western philosophers although I do have very high respect for all of them for the issues they deal with. Vinod keeps on mentioning astral bodies, but he himself has to base his beliefs on the descriptions of a select few Swamijis. He cannot verify himself or produce any evidence about them. In fact one can ask them, let us set aside astral bodies, did they know about fundamental particles such as protons, electrons, quarks etc.? No one will say that their knowledge of matter was anywhere near our current knowledge through science. You will realize that once you give up empirical methods, your choices are reduced to just beliefs unless you yourself want to go into Samadhi. Again as I said before, mind and consciousness studies are different issues. Science by choice has concentrated on the study of matter so far and has done remarkable job at it. So let us draw a line at matter!
Best.
kashyap
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CABSgQwrN%2BmQndmggzRPab95kXUCOASfyUEBHnSU1ggTbdyWkcA%40mail.gmail.com.
Kushal Shah
Best,
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/9ede082908b246eab95ab8e1f367d625%40BL-CCI-D1S08.ads.iu.edu.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Vasavada, Kashyap V
Dear Kushal,
KS: “I am personally neither interested in promoting a belief in the siddhis nor in pursuing them myself. I will only object when someone discards them without trying to properly understand.”
KV: OK. One reason I raised the question of siddhis is that you and Ram started discussing Anima etc. I promise not to discard siddhis without trying to understand. BTW whether they are important or harmful for Yogis to advance in their sadhana, physicists will be interested in verifications, because some of the claims like flying with your own power, Psychokinesis etc. are encroaching world of physics!! I have also high respect for PYS. But statements other than siddhis in PYS like Ashtang Yoga are about good behavior, meditations etc. and physics has as yet nothing to say about them. So please list the siddhis in PYS you believe and then we can discuss one by one. Otherwise these will be just like mythological stories. Some people believe and some do not, There is no way to settle truth except trust in Maharishi Patanjali.
KS: “Strictly speaking, science provides only a theory of how matter interacts with itself. It does not provide any theory of matter itself. This is very important distinction that needs to be made. Is there any scientific theory that can describe an electron or photon in its entirety without referring to any interactions? “
KV: As you very well, typically science is interested in understanding “how” rather than “why” The latter leads to philosophical debates. Whatever we know about electrons or photons is enough most of the time to understand empirical results. That is the whole purpose of science and its success shows all around our society. It has admittedly not succeed yet to understand consciousness, but so also there are problems with concepts of dark matter, dark energy, unification of forces etc. But that is the nature of science. It is great that science books are never closed!
KS: “You are again right in saying that neither me nor anyone else on this group, as far as we know, actually has the capability to demonstrate any of the siddhis mentioned in PYS. But does that mean that we should not believe in these siddhis? No! Whether we believe in a person or not largely depends on that person's character and integrity (and not which university s/he is affiliated with and how many degrees s/he has). This is true in science also. We would hardly make any progress if all scientists had to personally verify all experiments.”
KV: This is not right. It is true that if someone has established high credentials in some scientific area, other scientists do pay attention to his/her statements in some different areas. This is as it should be. But this does not result in automatic uncritical acceptance. The famous example is Einstein’s opposition to QM. That was proven mostly wrong and physicists kept on going with or without Einstein!. Even now physicists are constantly looking for some failure of theory of relativity, though much of it seems to be right. Again the problem lies in non-availability of empirical testing for the claims made by yogis. That is why there is a movement to examine brains of meditators by fMRI etc. Whether that gives any useful result or not remains to be seen. We want to break the logjam, status quo which has been going on for thousands of years!
KS: “But consciousness can also exercise control over matter and that is what these siddhis are about.”
KV: Verification of this statement is the whole issue. We need believable proof of these!
Best.
kashyap
From: online_sa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:online_sa...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kushal Shah
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 5:59 AM
To: Ph.D. Sadhu-Sanga Under the Holy Association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] violating laws of nature!
Dear Kashyap,
Strictly speaking, science provides only a theory of how matter interacts with itself. It does not provide any theory of matter itself. This is very important distinction that needs to be made. Is there any scientific theory that can describe an electron or photon in its entirety without referring to any interactions?
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CABSgQwpCV-Pz0cNYXEtSMKBOpvYo1RHCNmvn-43z%2BjOntBDL4w%40mail.gmail.com.
Kushal Shah
There are several statements in your email that require a deeper analysis from a slightly different perspective. I have taken related statements from different paragraphs of your email and put them together.
KV: Some people believe and some do not, There is no way to settle truth except trust in Maharishi Patanjali.
KV: Whatever we know about electrons or photons is enough most of the time to understand empirical results.
KV: Typically science is interested in understanding “how” rather than “why”.
All that we have in science are theories for how an electron/photon interacts with other particles. There is no scientific theory of an electron or photon itself! These two are very different things. Interestingly, Yoga is also mainly interested in "how" and the "why" questions are dealt with in Advaita/Sankhya/etc. The primary difference between Science and Yoga is of the kind of interactions being studied. Science studies Matter-Matter interactions, whereas Yoga studies Consciousness-Matter and Consciousness-Consciousness interactions. So obviously, the tools that are useful in one domain are unlikely to be useful in the other.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/eb9c09d434b64398a59d317082d19765%40BL-CCI-D1S08.ads.iu.edu.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
David Marjanovic
Von: "Vasavada, Kashyap V" <vasa...@iupui.edu>
> [...]
> KV: As you very well, typically science is interested in understanding “how” rather than “why” The latter leads to philosophical debates.
"Why does this happen" is the same as "how does this process work", "what influenced this process", "what are the limits on this process", "what causes the limits", "what prevents other things from happening instead" and so on.
How? Why? Advaita.
> KS: “You are again right in saying that neither me nor anyone else on this group, as far as we know, actually has the capability to demonstrate any of the siddhis mentioned in PYS. But does that mean that we should not believe in these siddhis? No! Whether we believe in a person or not largely depends on that person's character and integrity (and not which university s/he is affiliated with and how many degrees s/he has). This is true in science also. We would hardly make any progress if all scientists had to personally verify all experiments.”
> KV: This is not right.
I just spent ten years on finding and correcting 4,200 mistakes – unsystematic, accidental mistakes – in a dataset compiled by two colleagues whom I esteem greatly. I already have two papers on the same kinds of mistakes made by several other esteemed colleagues, and now I'm working on the next. In the course of all this, I've also found mistakes in my own work. Humans make mistakes, that's just how it is.
> Again the problem lies in non-availability of empirical testing for the claims made by yogis. That is why there is a movement to examine brains of meditators by fMRI etc. Whether that gives any useful result or not remains to be seen. We want to break the logjam, status quo which has been going on for thousands of years!
Kushal Shah
If we esteem a person's character and integrity highly, we will accord a low probability to the hypothesis that that person is lying or is saying random stuff that seems to sound good at the moment, and conversely a high probability to the hypothesis that that person is telling us their experiences/observations honestly. This has _no_ influence on the probability that that person is simply honestly mistaken.
NYIKOS, PETER
Professor, Dept. of Mathematics
University of South Carolina
http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2018 12:02 PM
To: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL
Cc: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] violating laws of nature!
NYIKOS, PETER
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 2:03 AM
To: Ph.D. Sadhu-Sanga Under the Holy Association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja
----------------------------
Sixth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2018
October 26—27, 2018
Auditorium, Campus 6, KIIT Deemed to be University, Bhubaneswar, Odisha, India
http://scienceandscientist.org/conference/2018
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
(All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act)
Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Online_Sadhu_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
Kushal Shah
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/956F056B71785C498214DC8208A556349342B7D1%40CAE145EMBP04.ds.sc.edu.
John Jay Kineman
John
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/956F056B71785C498214DC8208A556349342B7E5%40CAE145EMBP04.ds.sc.edu.
John Jay Kineman
John
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/27660545-277D-4855-AC14-F8565E4AE3B1%40colorado.edu.