from psi to life in the universe
Paul Werbos
KASHYAP >”Earth is just a little tiny planet in a universe with billions of galaxies each with billions of stars and planets. We do not know if there is life elsewhere…”
I’m not sure why the question of whether there is life elsewhere is such a mystery. I’m going to stick my neck out and suggest that it’s almost a certainty, and that it is scientific to accept this as the null hypothesis.
Vasavada, Kashyap V
Paul and Stephen,
May be there was misunderstanding of my short statement. I pretty much agree with both of you. My main point was that because of complete lack of knowledge of life or consciousness in the rest of the universe, assumption by some that consciousness must come from an organic stuff like human brain is probably wrong. It may very well be that the basic constituents of universe have some rudimentary consciousness. Task of science is to find that!
Best Regards.
Kashyap
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Paul Werbos
Paul and Stephen,
May be there was misunderstanding of my short statement. I pretty much agree with both of you.
My main point was that because of complete lack of knowledge of life or consciousness in the rest of the universe, assumption by some that consciousness must come from an organic stuff like human brain is probably wrong. It may very well be that the basic constituents of universe have some rudimentary consciousness.
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Fifth International Conference
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August 18—19, 2017
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Stephen Jarosek
PAUL WERBOS>” I highly recommend reading David Brin's concise novel, Existence, which reviews the vast literature on "the Fermi paradox". (Brin and I have had arguments even sharper than Roman and I, on other issues, but his work in this book is still important.) Fermi asked years ago: "If life is common in the universe (as common sense suggests), if intelligence evolves naturally and allows civilization, and if interstellar travel is ultimately possible (even if slow), WHY HAVEN'T WE SEEN THE ALIENS YET?" Hundreds of possible explanations have been discussed, but at the end of the day we do not really know.”
Paul, I commented on the Fermi paradox in my book, Transcending Scientism. I don’t believe that there is any Fermi paradox… or at least not in the context that Enrico Fermi framed it. Two particularly salient points relate to the physics of space travel, and return on investment (ROI). From Transcending Scientism (2016):
I contend that there is NO Fermi paradox. The universe looks to us precisely as it should look even with advanced civilizations thriving throughout the universe as the given. Here are the reasons:
· Thompson (2015) [1] takes a close look at the physics, to explain why space travel at even a fraction of light speed would be injurious to aliens’ health, in her NewStatesman article, Near-light speed travel increasingly impossible, according to maths;
· Space travel AND interstellar communications are expensive. Unless alien societies can accomplish a realistic return on investment (ROI), there is no incentive for them to reach us. Curiosity is not enough of an incentive to justify the enormous expense, and societies too stupid to realize this will be prime candidates for the Darwin awards;
· [Etc, etc, etc… as per my previous references to “dumb dirt” and the reconciliation of physics with entropy]
[1] Thompson, T. (2015, April 13). Near-light speed travel increasingly impossible, according to maths. New Statesman. Retrieved May 1, 2016m from http://www.newstatesman.com/sci-tech/2015/04/near-light-speed-travel-increasingly-impossible-according-maths
Us Earthlings seem to have trouble placing ourselves in the shoes of others, to imagine their motivations and reservations. The limitations of the physics (Thompson) are nontrivial. As far as radio communications are concerned, the Arecibo message in 1974 to globular star cluster M13 was expensive. And to what end? Earthbound investors are not going to enjoy a substantial ROI for a good 50,000 years (25,000 times 2). Governments formulating fiscal policy, and businesses making investment decisions, within this context, will have limited prospects for success and re-election… and rightly so. And regarding closer stars… I seem to recall that the maximum range for radio signals from our most powerful radio/television transmitters would be considerably less than 4 light-years. The nearest 25 stars to us are between 4-to-12 light-years away (for comparison, the Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 light-years across). Even if we were able to establish radio communications with any one of them… what might the practical returns be of such an investment? We should anticipate that aliens in advanced civilizations will, similar to our most astute Earthbound investors, have realistic concerns about ROI, before they would venture throwing money at projects to communicate with a remote, blue planet that they can’t even see, much less be able to mine or conquer.
Of course our experiences and inferences might be very different, were our solar system part of a densely populated globular cluster of stars… but that’s not us, we’re not there, and further conjecture is therefore pointless.
Let’s place this 25,000 years to M13 into a more realistic context. How many thousand years has European civilization existed? And closer stars within the 4-to-12 light-years from us? Governments get re-elected every four years or so, wars and social unrest take place every few decades or so. What realistic ROI can one hope to see within an 8-to-24 year return message cycle, before one can even hope to mine or to communicate anything meaningful? Investing in Hubble and space stations and satellites yields realistic returns on investment… but attempts to communicate with alien civilizations? Not so much. Even with bold and imaginative entrepreneurs like Elon Musk, I wouldn’t be holding my breath. Even bold and imaginative investors, like Elon Musk, hold genuine fears about the likely success or failure of their projects (Musk was genuinely relieved at the successful launch of Falcon Heavy). The reason that smart people don’t go throwing money at dumb projects, despite all the hype, is ROI.
Bottom line… I really don’t think that there is any Fermi paradox, at least not as defined within the context of his established parameters. The universe looks to us pretty much as it should look, were life in any of the habitable zones throughout the universe the norm. The Fermi paradox is asking the wrong questions (of course it is… its null hypothesis is based in dumb-luck, sterile materialism). But of course there still remains that interesting question… where are they? I’d rather rephrase this question, because commonsense already tells us that they’re out there. Rather, WHY are they not visiting or trying to communicate with us? This approach reframes what we should be asking:
1. The constraints as per Thompson (2015) are nontrivial. Within the context of Newtonian physics and ROI, actual space travel, beyond the confines of any one star’s solar system, may not be an option. Evidence suggests that nobody has visited us, and nobody is ever likely to visit us. As we are not living within a densely populated globular cluster, we should get over it, and accept our isolation in a sparsely populated stretch of the Milky Way galaxy as a given;
2. Given 1, that interstellar space travel is pretty much not an option, are there alternative communication technologies that might enable alien civilizations to connect? This, I believe, is the only viable option that merits exploring. We can, however, fairly safely rule out radio communications, given that SETI has not yielded anything positive thus far. So… are there alternative communication technologies that we should be looking for? Perhaps a technology that implements the quantum mechanics of entanglement?
3. And what if even interstellar communications are beyond the scope of physics? There exists one final bridge across the vast expanses of space… reincarnation;
4. And this fourth conjecture I throw in at the last minute… maybe they are visiting/communicating with us… but not on our terms.
Now before we depart from the depressing realization that there is no Fermi paradox, just one further word regarding the likely pervasiveness of life throughout the universe… out of curiosity, I’ve just googled the terms [mars soil analysis]. This lends further support to our thesis regarding the pervasiveness of life-critical dumb dirt. The following link is self-explanatory:
https://www.space.com/16895-what-is-mars-made-of.html
The chemistries and compounds contained in dumb dirt, whether Earthbound or Marsbound, are critical to life (for example, refer to Inner Life of the Cell that I posted some time ago to this forum). And anyone who insists that mechanical dumb luck is sufficient to account for this rich complexity, with its predisposition to life, despite the reality of entropy, I have trouble taking seriously (I’m looking at you, Neo-Darwinians).
Regards
From: online_sa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:online_sa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Werbos
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2018 3:17 PM
To: online_sa...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Rajendra Bajpai
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] from psi to life in the universe
Paul Werbos
PAUL WERBOS>” I highly recommend reading David Brin's concise novel, Existence, which reviews the vast literature on "the Fermi paradox". (Brin and I have had arguments even sharper than Roman and I, on other issues, but his work in this book is still important.) Fermi asked years ago: "If life is common in the universe (as common sense suggests), if intelligence evolves naturally and allows civilization, and if interstellar travel is ultimately possible (even if slow), WHY HAVEN'T WE SEEN THE ALIENS YET?" Hundreds of possible explanations have been discussed, but at the end of the day we do not really know.”
Paul, I commented on the Fermi paradox in my book, Transcending Scientism. I don’t believe that there is any Fermi paradox… or at least not in the context that Enrico Fermi framed it.
Two particularly salient points relate to the physics of space travel,
and return on investment (ROI). From Transcending Scientism (2016):
I contend that there is NO Fermi paradox. The universe looks to us precisely as it should look even with advanced civilizations thriving throughout the universe as the given. Here are the reasons:
· Thompson (2015) [1] takes a close look at the physics, to explain why space travel at even a fraction of light speed would be injurious to aliens’ health, in her NewStatesman article, Near-light speed travel increasingly impossible, according to maths;
· Space travel AND interstellar communications are expensive. Unless alien societies can accomplish a realistic return on investment (ROI), there is no incentive for them to reach us. Curiosity is not enough of an incentive to justify the enormous expense, and societies too stupid to realize this will be prime candidates for the Darwin awards;
na...@dutertre.com
Stephen and Paul,
Regarding the Fermi paradox:
1. Stephen: “And this fourth conjecture I throw in at the last minute… maybe they are visiting/communicating with us… but not on our terms. “
2. Paul: “And that feeds into my own explanation to Fermi's question: namely, "WE are the aliens," more precisely that we are a symbiosis of the kind of life which has evolved in the ocean of dark matter and of the kind which has evolved locally (in the shadow of that other life).”
Yes, this is correct. They are visiting but not on our “normal” terms.
I am giving a presentation next week at the International UFO Congress and my topic is “Remote Viewing the Extraterrestrials.” I am proposing new ways of finding corroborative evidence of ETs given the fact that their physical manifestations are either hidden or involve various alternate mind states. I wrote a book called “How To Talk an Alien” in which I explored the issue of alien communications using comparative linguistics. Certainly, Arecibo was an attempt based on primitive assumptions about alien communication, not mention, as you say, not very helpful in our timeframe.
Besides, I have my own personal experience(s). I have received “alien communications” along with my daughter, after we jointly witnessed, on June 19, 2011, at close range in Parsippany, New Jersey, a boomerang sized UFO/UAP 500-1,000 feet in the air, a half mile away, clear visibility, covered with 20-30 orange lights, the size of a football field, hovering without movement, from which emerged a strange 20 foot diameter white luminescent orb that traveled circuitously around the craft as though intelligently guided, disappeared behind it, then re-docked on the wing and telescoped closed, before the entire craft either disappeared or dematerialized in three phases as you switch off a TV set.
At the time, 2011, I did not “believe” in UFOs or ETs. So I was very confused by what I saw. My daughter was terrified. Long story-very short, for the next year and a half, my daughter and I began to receive very strange interruptions in our phone calls. A strange, metallic-sounding electronic voice, sounding male, would cut in, we could both hear it but could no longer hear each other, and it would speak as if through tremendous sound-wave distortion in an unknown language. Once it said my daughter’s name. Then when it was finished it would hang up both of our lines simultaneously and we would be unable to call each other back for about 10 minutes. It didn’t matter what combination of landlines or cell phones we used. Eventually, it began to cut into conversations between her and her friends, and me and a client, a famous psychologist (who exclaimed immediately that whatever she had heard it was “not of this earth.”).
Then the calls stopped. My daughter and I did not discuss it again over the intervening five years. Then in October, 2017, I “heard” this voice telepathically. It woke me up in the middle of the night and was clearly identifiable as the same voice. I don’t know what it said. I called my daughter the next morning and told her. She said she had heard the same voice again, for the first time in five years, just two days earlier when she tried to leave a phone message for a friend and the voice cut in on her phone line. At any rate, my experience is not the only one. This has occurred with many other “experiencers” – and I only learned afterwards.
My point is: They are communicating with us. It is not by generally accepted means. Much of it is in this strange realm of quasi-“mental” space. That is also how they manifest their presence, play mind control games (erasing memories, creating screen memories, inducing suspended animation, time distortion), and travel. It is under a wholly different set of rules. It is not a matter of radio waves.. ..
And yes, I believe we are, in fact, the “aliens” to many of these species. Many military remote viewers caught “spying” on these beings have felt like they may have been the “frightening ghost spirits” to these beings… I think that’s what happens when you have radically different configurations of matter and consciousness colliding…
Best,
Nancy du Tertre
“The Skeptical Psychic”
From: online_sa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:online_sa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Jarosek
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:49 AM
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Cc: 'Rajendra Bajpai' <rpba...@gmail.com>
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Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
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Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
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George Weissmann
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georg...@aol.com
most interesting, thanks for sharing. Now that you have :come out: as a ET experiencer, I will do my own coming out in this matter. The reason I was so confident in my last communication on this post that there is no Fermi paradox, that we are being visited and under constant surveillance, is that i myself experienced it too.
I have the whole diary in meticulous detail, noted down shorty after I experienced it, in the Sangre de Cristo mountains in Colorado in 1989. I will not go into detail here, as not everyone may be interested, but I am willing to share with those interested. Suffice it to say that I too was somewhat skeptical or at least agnostic about UFO's and ET's at the time. I went into the mountains one night with a companion I only knew superficially, and she told me that ET's had come to her at her request. She said we could do a little ritual to request a "visit". I though the idea was utterly preposterous, but decided to humor her. It was at night. About 20 minutes or so after our little ritual, a light zigzagged across the sky, the object grew larger and larger, and finally hovered about 100 meters above our heads: it was circular (disk-shaped) and had colored lights flashing; it must have been about 30 meters wide (but it could have been higher and proportionally larger). I was terrified and dove for cover in a bush, my companion accompanied me though she later said that she was not afraid; the beam from the object followed us and shone onto the bush; I stayed in the bush for what seemed 3 minutes, while the UFO continued to hover there, noiselessly. Then suddenly it accelerated away so fast that it disappeared from sight in less than second; I rushed out and towards a ledge in the direction it had disappeared, but it was gone. The next morning we heard on the local news that a UFO had been sighted in the neighborhood. I never discussed that experience with a living soul for 15 years (afraid of not being believed, ridiculed etc). But then I reconnected with my companion of that night, a school principal in Boston, and we recalled our experience, and found that our recollections were very similar. After that I gradually told a few people about it.
This experience showed me first hand not only that UFO's were real, but that they were in "telepathic" connection with us (for how would they otherwise have appeared after our ritual, and never otherwise?). More than 20 years after that first experience, i had another encounter that was witnessed by two members of my family, where 5 UFO's in a "w" formation followed us in the Mojave desert for more than 25 miles, and then again whizzed away extremely fast so they practically disappeared in an instant. But this time they were farther away, we didn't see any details of their shape.
Since then I have studied the literature extensively, including by numerous military and security personnel, caught on military radar, recovered a crashed UFO. a friend who observed antigravity equipment operating that had been retro-engineered by the defense company he was working for, encountered psychologists who had researched (with hypnotic recall) people who had been abducted by UFO and examined, spoken with many "experiencers" who have had encounters with aliens, and much much else that is too bizarre for me to talk about. Although there are flakes and enthusiasts among the UFO community, many of the people are extremely serious and reliable.
So yes, we are being visited, contacted. There is no Fermi paradox.
I would like to add that the alien experience is not of one kind. Some are definitely physical, in craft that can travel without traversing the space in between (so they are not bound by the speed of light). Others seem to be "interdimensional", not necessarily physical in our sense. It is all pretty mind-blowing. enough for today :-)
I would love to talk to you more about all this, Nancy.
------------------------
Bruce Smith
I'd love to hear more along this line of exploration. I think it dovetails neatly with the discussion on consciousness. I have had my own "experiencer" experiences, but nothing as visceral as these recent accounts seem to be. Mine are more in the vein of "lucid dream states." But I have spent a fair amount of time attempting to contact my "contacters" via mediation. I have also done a fair amount of Remote Viewing to assist my investigatory efforts as a journalist and author, especially in the DB Cooper case.
Bruce A. SmithEatonville, WA
bruce...@rainierconnect.com
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georg...@aol.com
Bruce Smith
Greetings George,
I am both an investigative journalist and a student of Ramtha the Enlightened One. In the latter's school I've learned some of the fundamentals of remote viewing, and I've applied my knowledge to seek more answers from the beings who have participated with me in the "abduction" phenomena. In addition and more recently, I have used RV to further my understanding of the DB Cooper case, and I've attached the chapter on RV that I included in my book: DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking.
This discussion is getting very interesting! Thanks for reaching out to me.
Bruce A. SmithThe Mountain News-WA
Eatonville, WA
360. 832. 6248
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