NFRC Certification Procedures

[David Freiberg]

Hi, 

I'm working on getting our products NFRC certified. I've become familiar with WINDOW 8.0 and THERM 8.0, but I have a couple questions. 

For a product that is a freezer/cooler display door and frame, what would be the option I should choose when creating the full product? Is there a way to get the performance for a multi door lineup enclosed in a frame? 

Additionally, we have two main products with the difference being the center mullion. When I look at the required cross sections for simulation for casements and doors, the two products that we have would share the exact same cross sections. Unless I am missing something, I think you only need to do a vertical meeting cross section for slider doors? 

My questions are, what cross sections do you need to simulate for a freezer/cooler door and frame and which option would you chose in WINDOW library when making the whole product? 

Thank you, 
David Freiberg

[Robin Mitchell]

Version 8.0 of THERM and WINDOW are not approved by NFRC for certification. 

You should talk to NFRC about simulation questions. 

You might want to talk to Kevin Louder, who I believe handles the commercial program

klo...@nfrc.org

Robin 

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Robin Mitchell

Building Technology and Urban Systems Division
Energy Technologies Area
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

[David Freiberg]

Thanks, I will reach out to NFRC. 

Have a great day, 

David Freiberg

On Tuesday, January 28, 2025 at 1:59:30 PM UTC-8 rdmit...@lbl.gov wrote:

Version 8.0 of THERM and WINDOW are not approved by NFRC for certification. 

You should talk to NFRC about simulation questions. 

You might want to talk to Kevin Louder, who I believe handles the commercial program

klo...@nfrc.org

Robin 

On Tue, Jan 28, 2025 at 1:52 PM David Freiberg <mrdavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, 

I'm working on getting our products NFRC certified. I've become familiar with WINDOW 8.0 and THERM 8.0, but I have a couple questions. 

For a product that is a freezer/cooler display door and frame, what would be the option I should choose when creating the full product? Is there a way to get the performance for a multi door lineup enclosed in a frame? 

Additionally, we have two main products with the difference being the center mullion. When I look at the required cross sections for simulation for casements and doors, the two products that we have would share the exact same cross sections. Unless I am missing something, I think you only need to do a vertical meeting cross section for slider doors? 

My questions are, what cross sections do you need to simulate for a freezer/cooler door and frame and which option would you chose in WINDOW library when making the whole product? 

Thank you, 
David Freiberg

--
You can view the THERM forum online at:
https://groups.google.com/g/LBNL-THERM
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[David Freiberg]

Updated: if there is anyone else out there that finds this forum and is trying to determine whole product performance for a fenestration product like this, what you do is get the cross section of the mullion and treat it as a meeting rail. Run the therm analysis and then go to window and add the therm file as a divider. 

Then go to the window library to create a new window. Set the window type to custom single vision, input the appropriate total width and height, and then check the dividers option. Click dividers, set horizontal dividers to none and set vertical dividers to the number of mullions in the frame. Then click the divider and apply the divider you just added. You are limited to 10 dividers, but after 3 the whole product performance doesn't change by very much. 

Thanks to the guys at WESTlab for helping me out. If anyone needs consultant services for fenestration products, I would highly recommend them.

Also thanks again to Robin and the team at LBNL. You guys are great. 

-David Freiberg

On Tuesday, January 28, 2025 at 2:07:22 PM UTC-8 David Freiberg wrote:

Thanks, I will reach out to NFRC. 

Have a great day, 

David Freiberg

On Tuesday, January 28, 2025 at 1:59:30 PM UTC-8 rdmit...@lbl.gov wrote:

Version 8.0 of THERM and WINDOW are not approved by NFRC for certification. 

You should talk to NFRC about simulation questions. 

You might want to talk to Kevin Louder, who I believe handles the commercial program

klo...@nfrc.org

Robin 

On Tue, Jan 28, 2025 at 1:52 PM David Freiberg <mrdavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, 

I'm working on getting our products NFRC certified. I've become familiar with WINDOW 8.0 and THERM 8.0, but I have a couple questions. 

For a product that is a freezer/cooler display door and frame, what would be the option I should choose when creating the full product? Is there a way to get the performance for a multi door lineup enclosed in a frame? 

Additionally, we have two main products with the difference being the center mullion. When I look at the required cross sections for simulation for casements and doors, the two products that we have would share the exact same cross sections. Unless I am missing something, I think you only need to do a vertical meeting cross section for slider doors? 

My questions are, what cross sections do you need to simulate for a freezer/cooler door and frame and which option would you chose in WINDOW library when making the whole product? 

Thank you, 
David Freiberg

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You can view the THERM forum online at:
https://groups.google.com/g/LBNL-THERM
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[yal...@gmail.com]

David,

Is NFRC 100 certification required for freezer cooler doors, though I'm not an expert on that, seems a bit odd? Plus the boundary conditions for NFRC are likely not applicable.

Yalin