Missing items in materials library

[David Collins]

Hello,

I successfully downloaded and installed version 7.8.71.0

When I go to load a material library I see four choices (including the one currently being used: material-NFRC.lib.  The other three are

material.lib,

material-Arch.lib, and

material-PRE-7.8.71.lib. 

These are the same four libraries in the introductory tutorial I'm following. 

However, when I load the library that is referenced in the tutorial: material-Arch.lib, I do not find the materials that have been used in that tutorial, namely a few varieties of concrete and insulation.   The tutorial used versions 7.7.10 and 7.8.58.  Both of those versions had these materials (and other materials) that are not present in the libraries of my version. 

Actually, I don't see these materials in any of the four libraries in version 7.8.71.  All four of these libraries load just fine.  So, I'm thinking these libraries are not corrupt.

Are there other materials libraries?

Did I happen to get a bad version of the libraries?

Where can I find libraries with these common construction materials?

Thank you kindly.  Any help is much appreciated.

[Robin Mitchell]

I am curious which tutorial you are following that references the materials you are interested in.

The materials.lib file is the default Material Library that most people use. 

The materials-Arch.lib file was made several years ago to try to accommodate users who were modeling building elements such as walls, floors, and roofs rather than just fenestration products, which is what the materials.lib is generally used for. 

Robin

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Robin Mitchell

Building Technology and Urban Systems Division
Energy Technologies Area
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

[David Collins]

Thanks for your response.  I watched George Reichard's three videos.  From his comment section I found this group.  I just found the tutorials on the lbl.gov site.  I'll work through those next.  But first I might try reinstalling the THERM and libraries.

[Robin Mitchell]

Hmm, interesting that George's materials-Arch.lib doesn't match the one in our install (which at this point is fairly old). 

Maybe he added more materials to his THERM library, which isn't very difficult. 

He monitors this forum, so maybe he will reply !!

Robin

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[Georg Reichard]

You got me curious now what's going on and what has changed, since I made the videos at different times.
I went ahead and even installed the latest version (7.8.71.0) now if anything changed.

As Robin already mentioned, most of the standard material libraries are pretty old, as they are really just basic starting points and power users build their own libraries from manufacturers data. The Marterials-Arch.lib seems to be still the same coming with the latest install though - dating back to 2011.

I have a hunch that what you are missing (and that was not explicitly stated in the first video) is that you actually have to close the pop-up dialog once you've loaded your library. In other words, when you clicked "Load Lib", select you file, and then just check the drop-down in the "Material Definitions" pop-up window that is still open, you will not see the newly loaded material. You have to click "Close" first, then the lists are updated.
This is also when THERM checks if any of your already drawn materials are not found in the freshly loaded DB and notifies you of the missing materials. (They also would be showing with "?? Material Name ??" in the main window drop down.)

Hope that helps,

Georg

PS: The later videos may have additional materials already in there as I didn't start with a blank installation.

[Georg Reichard]

Also, it seems that the default materials library "materials.lib" from 2/8/2022 now has the architectural materials already in there, so there's no real need to load the older library anymore. I will add a note of this in the comments section of the tutorial video.

[David Collins]

Thanks George,  I appreciate your suggestions.  I had been checking the contents of the four libraries after closing the pop-up window.  My materials library has the same Feb 8, 2022 date as yours does.  The time stamps differs by an hour. 

Did you add in the concrete & insulation options shown briefly in your 2nd video?  In my material.lib, I have no concrete options and only three insulation options:

"Insulation Fiberboard"

"Insulation Fiberboard (ceiling tile, Lay-in Panel)"

"Insulation Fiberboard (Roof Board)"

Your list has includes 6 other "Insulation" options, including "Insulation, Fiberglass Batt".

Interestingly, our lists have the same 8 "glass" options.  Mine does not include the three "Gypsum" options that yours does.  However, where you have "Hard board, med density" & "Hardboard (Medium Density)", I have "Hardboard (Medium Density)" & Hardwoods (Oak, Maple)", just to name a few differences.

- David

[Robin Mitchell]

David

Just FYI, if you are modeling glass in THERM, such as for a glazing system in a window frame, you should model the glazing system in WINDOW and import it into THERM. So the Glass records in the THERM Material Library are probably not used much. 

Robin

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[David Collins]

Thanks Robin,  I wasn't aware of that, but it is good to know.

I'm actually doing Passive House modelling and the window manufacturers tend to be fairly open in regards to sharing their performance models, particularly the PH certified components.  I'm focusing on thermal bridging of structural areas such as exterior corners, exterior-interior wall intersections and exterior wall-floor intersections.

[Georg Reichard]

David - if I understand the programming of THERM correctly, when you load your "xy-material.lib" the original "material.lib" file is replaced. So once you did this load any other lib once, you will not get your original 2022-dated lib content back that came with the installation. (as mentioned in my previous post, the standard lib now has already the architectural materials in there, but only if you don't overwrite it by loading another lib)

The only way to get this back (unless you saved it under a different name before loading something else) is to go into your C:\Users\Public\LBNL\THERM7.8\lib directory, delete the material.lib in there, and do a new install (or a repair of the install).

Please note that a repair without deleting this file will not replace it, since after any changes it will have a newer timestamp and thus not be overwritten.

Robin - correct me if my understanding of this is wrong.

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[Robin Mitchell]

I'm not actually sure that is true. 

I need to test, but I think if you load a material library, it shouldn't do anything to the other libraries, so you should be able to re-load the original material.lib file and it should be unaltered (if you didn't change anything in it). 

I will test tomorrow, but I can always zip up the material.lib file in the installation and email it to anyone that needs it. 

Robin

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[Krigierka Ratajczyk]

Hello, I'm trying to calculate the thermal bridge for exterior-interior wall, but I think I'm doing something wrong. The result seems too low to me. Where it could be wrong? 

Any  suggestion would be helpful. Thank you kindly.

[Robin Mitchell]

what version of THERM are you running? 

On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 8:44 AM Krigierka Ratajczyk <krig...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, I'm trying to calculate the thermal bridge for exterior-interior wall, but I think I'm doing something wrong. The result seems too low to me. Where it could be wrong? 

Any  suggestion would be helpful. Thank you kindly.

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