Conservatives' Cognitive Dissonance

[Brian Howell]

I think the following quote from an article in Salon says it all:

One thing we know for sure: The entire GOP field will blast away at the Pope’s encyclical, probably with more than few asinine comments and misstatements, because, well, it’s what they do. As we’ve witnessed during attacks on the Pope from Bush and Santorum already, the GOP pushback will include the Catholic candidates especially, and they’ll be the ones the press will seize upon for comment as often as possible.

 

Jeb Bush, in fact, has already weighed in, saying, “I think religion ought to be about making us better as people, less about things [that] end up getting into the political realm.” [Emphasis mine.]

 

This actually brings up an important point, because if there’s one crucial aspect of this which ought to be hammered by anyone within shouting distance of the Catholics in the race, it’s the issue of faith and consistency. Simply put: If it’s okay for Bush, Santorum and Rubio to simply waive the Church’s teachings on the climate crisis, why is it impossible for them to do the same when it comes to their religion-based positions on abortion, contraception and same-sex marriage?

 

[Scott Hotes]

I find it very ironic that it's now liberal's turn to defend the weighing in of religion into politics...  I think in this case,

I do agree with Bush, let's leave religion (and the dogmatic, anti-rational approach it relies on to help us make 

sense of the world we find ourselves in) out of politics.  Whether that's the religious right, which as you suggest

has been a scourge on our nation to the newly awakened liberal-moving Pope.

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” 
― Robert A. Heinlein

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ipse Dixit" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Ipse-dixit+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Ipse-dixit/f529d87b-d0cc-43a7-94aa-e2f6e4d3bb03%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Craig Good]

When media outlet A snarks at group B for something it’s sure B will do in the future, that says far more about the bias of outlet A than about the behavior of group B. It makes A look like it’s on such weak ground that it needs to prepare the battle space.

Second, cherry-picking scripture is how we made it into the Enlightenment, and why stoning in the West has fallen out of fashion since more Biblical times. Fortunately most of Christendom and Judaism already ignores huge swaths of their holy books.

On Jun 19, 2015, at 08:27 AM, Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> One thing we know for sure: The entire GOP field will blast away at the Pope’s encyclical, probably with more than few asinine comments and misstatements, because, well, it’s what they do.

--
--Craig WWWAYD?
clg...@me.com http://www.craig-good.com
Craig Good: U.S. Olympic Chutes and Ladders Team

[jack saunders]

I strongly disagree with Scott on this one.  He's telling all citizens who choose a religious career to keep their mouths shut on any matter on the political agenda....presumably out of fear they might influence the faithful. 

This would necessarily include the moral dimensions of police brutality, wars that displace millions, migration protocols that send thousands to a desperate death, gun control, nuclear weaponry.....

Actually, it becomes hard to imagine a sermon based on anything but general pieties...upon which all hold settled and comfortable positions.  The importance of kindness might be a topic.  But what to do about our common home in environmental peril?  Rule that out.

If the secular right can somehow muscle a new norm of political neuterism on clerics, it will be the death knell of religion as we know it.  Nobody under 30 would ever attend again.

 

---

From: Scott Hotes <sah...@gmail.com>
To: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>
Cc: Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ipse Dixit] Conservatives' Cognitive Dissonance

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Ipse-dixit/CAC7%2BDABGeaTdhi1%2BAzu8unE0jAKLy3LyM3CxH89043La0FtoVQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Scott Hotes]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Craig Good <clg...@me.com> wrote:

Second, cherry-picking scripture is how we made it into the Enlightenment, and why stoning in the West has fallen out of fashion since more Biblical times. Fortunately most of Christendom and Judaism already ignores huge swaths of their holy books.

I don't think that's good enough.  Damage is still being done, just by the passive retention of the objectionable

language, and not just by the opportunists who seize on them to create a wedge and do harm.  For example,

the bible is seeped in patriarchal language, which for 2000 years has served to subjugate women in the West,

something that continues to this day.  I say, rewrite it.  Here's a start:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Good-Book-Humanist-Bible/dp/0802778372

And if you don't like that, take a look at:

http://www.amazon.com/Walden-Civil-Disobedience-Henry-Thoreau/dp/0451532163/

Scott

[jack saunders]

My experience as a practicing Catholic for many years was that people read the gospels for their forkloric value and enjoyed the warm feeling of eternal truths spoken long ago.  Many get a literary rush out of the dated language.  But talk of slaves as ordinary folk merely subject to a stricter supervision for some punitive reason in seen at once as a record of ancients speaking of a world that is long gone. 

---

From: Scott Hotes <sah...@gmail.com>
To: Craig Good <clg...@me.com>
Cc: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>; Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 10:01 AM

Subject: Re: [Ipse Dixit] Conservatives' Cognitive Dissonance

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ipse Dixit" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Ipse-dixit+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Ipse-dixit/CAC7%2BDAC8iPQmu%2B3pz3kpO4XM%3DM5ve_WBXHZWBDAr5HsKsQupoA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Scott Hotes]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 10:00 AM, jack saunders <jack...@pacbell.net> wrote:

I strongly disagree with Scott on this one.  He's telling all citizens who choose a religious career to keep their mouths shut on any matter on the political agenda....presumably out of fear they might influence the faithful. 

That's not what I meant to say, but I can easily see how you would interpret what I said that way.

Of course people as individuals should be free to say whatever they want, on political subjects or

otherwise, and of course these thoughts will be shaped by their religious views, which of course

they are also free to hold.

What I am objecting to is religious institutions becoming powerful political entities that directly influence

the political process, putting hand-picked people into office, etc.  Much like the religious right is doing

now.  I think that's wrong, no matter which side of the political spectrum it finds itself.

WRT the Pope, like I said a few days ago, good for him, he's on the progressive side of this issue,

promoting environmental change.  Great.  But there is a larger issue here, that the Pope has some

kind of divine knowledge due to his singular proximity to God, so, well, it should carry more weight.

That's great when you agree with him, but not so much when you don't.  Unlike science, there's

no appeal process.  Look, I spoke to the big man, this is what he said, now sit back down.  I won't

sit back down.  And yes, the church continues to be on the "wrong side" of countless issues, such

as abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage, etc.  We will all be much better off when political

questions are resolved rationally without the weight of stone-age dogmatic thinking perpetuated

by centuries of patriarchs in false robes.

Scott 

[jack saunders]

I see the Pope, and the Dalai Lama, and the Archbishop of Canterbury (and no doubt many others of that ilk) as holy men who spend most of their time thinking about the spiritual peace of the faithful.  And since that peace depends in differing ways on fidelity to moral norms, I give these men special credibility....not because I know they are right, but because I hope they are right.

 

---

From: Scott Hotes <sah...@gmail.com>
To: jack saunders <jack...@pacbell.net>

Cc: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>; Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 10:52 AM

Subject: Re: [Ipse Dixit] Conservatives' Cognitive Dissonance

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ipse Dixit" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Ipse-dixit+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Ipse-dixit/CAC7%2BDAA%3DuL-UKQ%3DynTxy9Foe61f%2ByjbZ%3Dvij94xRU-RhYL7D2Q%40mail.gmail.com.