What defines "racist"?

0 views
Skip to first unread message

Brian Howell

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 12:40:21 PM1/8/16
to Ipse Dixit
People tend to date within their own ethnic and cultural groups. We feel more comfortable being with people like ourselves, who share the same values and perspectives. I learned that working at Match.com. Of course that is changing: in 1970 only about 1% of marriages were interracial, compared to about 12% in 2013; overall, about 6% of US marriages are interracial.

The online dating market is well developed, with many niche sites catering to particular religions or cultures. Examples include JDate.com (Jewish), AsianDating.com, IndiaMatch.com, and BlackPeopleMeet.com.

Now comes news of a new dating site targeted specifically at white people: WhereWhitePeopleMeet.com. The site has, naturally, created a mini-firestorm of protest on racist grounds and that it promotes segregation. The founder insists that he isn't a racist: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/05/wherewhitepeoplemeet-dating-site-not-racist-utah. So, is the site really racist? And, if so, why? Because white people are at an economic advantage? Or because they so heavily influence American culture?

Scott Hotes

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 2:38:33 PM1/8/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com> wrote:
Now comes news of a new dating site targeted specifically at white people: WhereWhitePeopleMeet.com. The site has, naturally, created a mini-firestorm of protest on racist grounds and that it promotes segregation. The founder insists that he isn't a racist: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/05/wherewhitepeoplemeet-dating-site-not-racist-utah. So, is the site really racist? And, if so, why? Because white people are at an economic advantage? Or because they so heavily influence American culture?

Sites like jdate and blackpeoplemeet are there to solve a practical problem.  Market leaders like match are dominated by white people, and in turn it can be difficult to interact with, or get the same value out of, the service if you are not white, or of you are looking for someone who is not white.  Race or racisim aside, that is a practical problem, and these sites solve this problem for these customers.

This is not a trial, and I assume you are not asking a legal question here.  In my mind, wherewhitepeoplemeet is not solving a practical problem.  Rather, it is making a political or social statement.  Given the information I have, I would tend to believe that that statement is motivated by racial and racist ends.  The fact that no accommodation is made for same-sex couples reinforces this conclusion.

The argument that if wherewhitepeoplemeet is racist then it must be true that blackpeoplemeet is also racist is not supportable.  It is turning a social question into a purely legal one.  That is, that it is out of bounds to discuss the social aspect of racism independent of what is enforced by law, which is a simple fallacy.

Scott

Brian Howell

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 2:46:25 PM1/8/16
to Ipse Dixit
How does a lack of accommodation for same-sex couples reinforce the idea that the site is motivated by "racial and racist ends"? Because racists are generally homophobes as well? Not that I disagree, but your conclusion is prima facie unsupported and I just wanted clarification.

And yes, Match.com is 77% caucasian. (Of course, East Indians are also caucasians, though I am sure few would self-identify as such.)

Scott Hotes

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 2:56:50 PM1/8/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com> wrote:
How does a lack of accommodation for same-sex couples reinforce the idea that the site is motivated by "racial and racist ends"? Because racists are generally homophobes as well? Not that I disagree, but your conclusion is prima facie unsupported and I just wanted clarification.

Happy to clarify.  My point was that wherewhitepeoplemeet was not solving any real practical problem for users, but rather was a political/social statement.  The fact that they *also* discriminate against same-sex couples was not meant in any way to imply that such discrimination is racist, but rather that it enforces the point of their making a political/social statement.

Scott

jack saunders

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 2:59:09 PM1/8/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
This is a marketing coup.  You want to enter a very crowded field.  It will cost you a minimum of $50 million to build national awareness.  Or.....you can do something like this and get the job done for free.

 




From: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>
To: Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 9:40 AM
Subject: [Ipse Dixit] What defines "racist"?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ipse Dixit" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Ipse-dixit+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Ipse-dixit/ec491558-2906-4dca-838f-054301919d06%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


jack saunders

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 3:15:21 PM1/8/16
to Scott Hotes, Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
I clicked on the site and saw no sign of racial animus -- and every sign of a revenue-generating orientation.  

I can, however, see the site attracting racists, and benefiting from such zeal to spread the news.
 


From: Scott Hotes <sah...@gmail.com>
To: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>
Cc: Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ipse Dixit] What defines "racist"?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ipse Dixit" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Ipse-dixit+...@googlegroups.com.

jack saunders

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 3:22:38 PM1/8/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
My mental model holds that homosexuality occurs in approximately 5 percent of the human race, and it is no more or less likely among racists.  

I will grant that people whose social network is overtly racist are more likely to choose a closeted strategy.  But white racist sex contact brokers would not be any more likely to leave money on the table than asians or arabs.
 




From: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>
To: Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [Ipse Dixit] What defines "racist"?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ipse Dixit" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Ipse-dixit+...@googlegroups.com.

jack saunders

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 3:34:49 PM1/8/16
to Scott Hotes, Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
Fine reasoning going on here.  I like it.  Scott's point seems to be that if the site is a straight-up profit-maximizing business, it would not reject gay customers.  Rejecting potential sales is a considered choice.  Some other value is being served.  So the question becomes this:  Is there a category -- a legitimate specialization -- that sells social leads to white heterosexuals only?

Scott's take is that since white heterosexuals can find mates on most dating sites, a specialty site for them becomes, ipso facto, a racist political organization.  If so, what would be its "mission"?  What would be the "vision" of its creator?  Solve for that and you might get a very interesting picture of the future.

 



From: Scott Hotes <sah...@gmail.com>
To: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>
Cc: Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 11:56 AM

Subject: Re: [Ipse Dixit] What defines "racist"?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ipse Dixit" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Ipse-dixit+...@googlegroups.com.

Larry Rosenthal

unread,
Jan 8, 2016, 6:22:28 PM1/8/16
to Ipse-...@googlegroups.com
a recently registered customer pictured on the site
Profile picture of Jodell Black

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Larry A Rosenthal PhD, Program Director
Center on Civility & Democratic Engagement
Goldman School of Public Policy
UC Berkeley
l...@berkeley.edu
ph 510 642 2062 office
     415 971 3762 cell
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages