Can I watch The Cosby Show in good conscience?

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Brian Howell

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May 2, 2016, 3:02:26 PM5/2/16
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I've seen many Woody Allen films over the years, even when he started dating his step daughter Soon Ye and and continuing after the firestorm surrounding claims of inappropriate behavior with his daughter, Dylan. I especially enjoyed Paris After Midnight.

I've seen the Mikado performed in yellowface on several occasions and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Annually, I listen to Bing Crosby sing White Christmas to get into a seasonal mood, even though I've heard—from a friend of one of his children—that he was a tyrannical father.

I greatly admire Thomas Jefferson for many reasons, even though he owned slaves and was quite possibly a rapist.

I've read and re-read Huck Finn and find no problem with Twain's colloquial use of nigger.

So, can I watch reruns of The Cosby Show in good conscience? Or should I instead flail myself for my profound lack of propriety.

Craig Good

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May 2, 2016, 3:08:05 PM5/2/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit

> On May 2, 2016, at 12:02 PM, Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, can I watch reruns of The Cosby Show in good conscience? Or should I instead flail myself for my profound lack of propriety.
>

If I couldn’t compartmentalize a person’s work from their own character there would be little art left for me to enjoy.

My soul-twister is “Chinatown”. Nuff said.

One of my most cherished memories was seeing Cosby in concert in the 70’s. It was amazing. While the victims of his abuse certainly have more claim, it makes me angry that he sullied so many of my memories.

But he is undeniably funny, and his TV shows were all good.

Maybe the ability of art to transcend the artist is what makes it great.


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David Fetter

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May 2, 2016, 4:00:03 PM5/2/16
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On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 12:02:26PM -0700, Brian David Howell wrote:
> I've seen many Woody Allen films over the years, even when he
> started dating his step daughter Soon Ye and and continuing after
> the firestorm surrounding claims of inappropriate behavior with his
> daughter, Dylan. I especially enjoyed *Paris After Midnight.*
>
> I've seen the Mikado performed in yellowface on several occasions
> and thoroughly enjoyed it.
>
> Annually, I listen to Bing Crosby sing *White Christmas* to get into
> a seasonal mood, even though I've heard—from a friend of one of his
> children—that he was a tyrannical father.
>
> I greatly admire Thomas Jefferson for many reasons, even though he
> owned slaves and was quite possibly a rapist.
>
> I've read and re-read *Huck Finn* and find no problem with Twain's
> colloquial use of *nigger*.

One of these things is not like the others.
One of these things just doesn't belong.
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

> So, can I watch reruns of *The Cosby Show* in good conscience? Or
> should I instead flail myself for my profound lack of propriety.

I draw the line at taking affirmative actions that benefit the
offender in person, and even then, it's not a hard line. I won't duck
out on movie night with friends if they've agreed to go see a Woodie
Allen movie, although I'll mention that it makes me uncomfortable to
give the guy money.

As to appreciating the work of bad people who are already dead, I
really can't see how that could be a problem.

Cheers,
David.
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Matt Fish

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May 2, 2016, 7:41:14 PM5/2/16
to David Fetter, Ipse Dixit
I'm with Craig on this one. Go ahead and separate the art from the artist. (And David is correct, the Twain example is not of a piece with the other examples.) It's not just a simple moral convenience. Or maybe it is, but I do it all the time. Life's just too difficult otherwise.

As Craig already pointed out, it is exceptionally difficult with Polanski films. Just another child rapist who happens to make great films. What is it with these guys? Chaplin was one of the greatest film artist of the early 20th century and his behavior in this regard was abhorrent. (http://modernnotion.com/scandal-almost-took-charlie-chaplin/)

Super fun topic, Brian! (not)

-Matt




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Brandon Gates

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May 3, 2016, 7:57:50 PM5/3/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com> wrote:

So, can I watch reruns of The Cosby Show in good conscience? Or should I instead flail myself for my profound lack of propriety.

I invoke a sort of sunk cost argument: the shows have been made.  Don't support any future works and your conscience can be clear.  OTOH, if he still gets royalties from you watching Cosby Show re-runs ....

Jack Saunders

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May 3, 2016, 11:13:55 PM5/3/16
to Brandon Gates, Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
If there are still reruns of Cosby, they will soon disappear, to be seen only at retro film festivals put on by fraternity row at southern colleges.
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Brian Howell

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May 3, 2016, 11:30:14 PM5/3/16
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Let's not forget Hogan's Heroes, and those funny, lovable Nazis. The show played in syndication for years. Indeed, I remember seeing it running on a backwater cable a few years ago in widescreen "high definition." (The original films werecolor corrected and then put through a telecine at a 16:9 crop, as opposed to its original 4:3. Actors heads were cut off.) And you can still buy episode collections of the show from Amazon. Just like The Cosby Show.

Brian Howell

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May 3, 2016, 11:40:34 PM5/3/16
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Potentially interesting sidebar comment about Hogan's Heroes: all four of the key Nazis (Col. Klink, Sgt. Schulz, Gen. Burkhalter, and Col. Hochstetter) were played by Jewish actors. The first three had fled the Nazis. And the actor who played Le Beau, one of Hogan's men, had been interned at a concentration camp. Werner Klemperer (son of famed German conductor Otto), who played Klink, supposedly stated, "I am an actor. If I can play Richard III, I can play a Nazi."


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Craig Good

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May 4, 2016, 12:49:29 AM5/4/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit

> On May 3, 2016, at 20:30 PM, Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Let's not forget Hogan's Heroes, and those funny, lovable Nazis. The show played in syndication for years. Indeed, I remember seeing it running on a backwater cable a few years ago in widescreen "high definition." (The original films werecolor corrected and then put through a telecine at a 16:9 crop, as opposed to its original 4:3. Actors heads were cut off.) And you can still buy episode collections of the show from Amazon. Just like The Cosby Show.


My dad could never watch that show. While he never saw combat, he was a WWII vet. It just wasn’t funny to him at all.


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alan pearson

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May 4, 2016, 1:05:11 PM5/4/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
Hi

my dad was a prisoner of war in Germany/Poland.  He was captured at Dunkirk and spent the rest of the war in a prison camp for soldiers.  my father was always quite complimentary to the german soldiers that guarded the camp.  the allied soldiers were generally quite well treated and my father reported that both the german guards and allies equally hated the nazis. the major problem he noted in his diaries was the work (he worked in mining) and lack of food. both the guards and those being guarded suffered from lack of food especially later in the war.  apparently red cross parcels were often shared. i don’t think that the nazis typically got involved in the army prisoner of war camps but maybe my father’s experience was unusual..

cheers

alan

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jack saunders

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May 4, 2016, 2:18:01 PM5/4/16
to Craig Good, Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
When conflating Hogan's Heroes with nazi propaganda, please view this brief comment by John Cleese.

Comedy is, by definition, critical.

 
 
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We Can't Have Comedy and Be Politically Correct at the S...
The essence of comedy is being critical, says John Cleese, and that means causing offense sometimes. But we shouldn't protect everyone from experiencing negative em...
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From: Craig Good <clg...@me.com>
To: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>
Cc: Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ipse Dixit] Can I watch The Cosby Show in good conscience?
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Brian Howell

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May 4, 2016, 2:34:07 PM5/4/16
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Cleese quoting Robin Skynner: "If people can't control their own emotions, they may have to start trying to control other people's behavior." 

That one statement, I believe, is the crux of the overreactive behaviors occurring on college campuses. (Think microagressions.) They don't bode well for the students when they enter the workforce, and they especially don't bode well for society as a whole.

We are raising a nation of wimps.

jack saunders

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May 4, 2016, 2:46:10 PM5/4/16
to Brian Howell, Ipse Dixit
I agree, Brian.  I expect lawsuits one day.  "How could you, as Dean, allow these young people to go out into a competitive workplace, expecting to be safe?  This was pedagogical negligence of egregious proportions."
 
 


From: Brian Howell <bdho...@gmail.com>
To: Ipse Dixit <Ipse-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Ipse Dixit] Hogan's Heroes? Listen to John Cleese....PLEASE

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Brandon Gates

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May 4, 2016, 7:56:20 PM5/4/16
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I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks so, *and* is willing to call it out.  Speaking of, this is perhaps my favourite recap of Larry Wilmore's <i>faux pas</i> at WHCD (aka, nigga-gate):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/03/larry-wilmore-responds-to-n-word-uproar-obama-knew-what-i-was-talking-about-in-whcd-speech.html

My recap: being offended by some provocative in-cultural unity is Doing it Wrong.

 
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