Corrosion behind mast bracket..

[Simon James]

I’m planning an Atlantic crossing in Dec 2021. Have discovered slight dimpling behind mast  block collars (see pics) . Depth of dimpled areas is 1/16” max.

My question: Is this a known problem/mast failure area, and what what is the thickness of the mast wall 1” above deck level. 

I will probably be lashing a 25” spare to the deck as an emergency mast.

Simon 

NS 30 #423

[Ken Dakin]

I think that you should have a conversation with Mike’s Quill regarding the mast condition, remedies and quite possibly, your plans. 

Ken Dakin

NS 33 #007

Sashay

Kingston ON 

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Simon James <ogle...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Simon -

I was going to relax tonight ... enough postings for 2020. Enough 2020, frankly. But, when I read your post about your mast, I just couldn't walk away from the old PC.

I will try not to "go on". I can't really comment on the issue (if there is one) with your mast. I totally concur with Ken Dakin, though. There is no one more knowledgeable than Mike Quill when it comes to our masts, booms and rigging. I may be mistaken but I also think that Ken was gently suggesting that you have an in-depth chat with Mr. Quill regarding your plans to cross the Atlantic in your NS30.

Mark Ellis designed our boats to be coastal cruisers. When it comes to crossing oceans, I think that conventional wisdom leans toward "don't do it". I haven't heard of a Nonsuch that has crossed an ocean (in a reasonable manner with the skipper still onboard at the conclusion of the voyage). I think that it would be a slam-bam uncomfortable noisy and rollicking trip in OK weather. In real bad weather, out there on the open ocean, I think it would be a nightmare and scary as hell. And, your boat would hate you. And you might be putting yourself at serious risk.

Perhaps I'm out to lunch on this but, honetly, if I was going to cross an ocean with a sailboat, any sailboat, I would look for one that had a reputation as a good ocean sailor (many come to mind - Contessas, lots of good British boats, Pearsons, Danas, lots of good American and Canadian boats, etc.) as opposed to a wonderful boat like a Nonsuch that was never designed to do anything like that.

All things are possible. Just because something is possible does not make it a good idea. I'd give this project a very serious think and while you do, have a happy new year.

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

I second Ken's advice of contacting Mike Quill.  As you may or may not already know,  he's the expert on Nonsuch rigging of longest standing:

Mike Quill Yacht Rigging Ltd.
32 Old Coach Rd.
St. Catharines ON.
Canada
L2N 2P5
905-935-3455
mqu...@cogeco.ca
http://www.mqyr.com/

I'd also suggest, for anyone considering going offshore who hasn't  already reviewed it,  Rob Mazza's 1991 advice memo on recommendations for upgrades before doing so.  This is available on the INA website, Nonsuch.org, by clicking on the "Members" menu and selecting "Maintenance".  As you scroll down on that page, the fourth blue horizontal bar you'll see is titled, "Spars and Rigging Technical Info."  If you scroll within that sub-collection of documents, you'll find it there.

That document covers in detail: Hanger Line Pad Eyes,  Companionway Drop Boards,  Life Raft Stowage,  Safety Lines,  Backup Mainsheet Systems, Storm Sails,  Wishbone Weldments,  Extra Snatch Blocks,  Extra Halyard Sheave and Halyard,  Emergency Steering,  Choker Safety Lines, and Roll Bars.

-- Bob
   Solar Wind
   Nonsuch 26C #143

[Mike Jennings]

I just finished reading Without Rival, Brian Shelley’s account of crossing the Atlantic in a NS30. He made it across the ditch, cruised Europe then the NS came home on it’s own.

It required a little maintenance when he got it back.
Interesting read. 

Mike Jennings.

NS005 Saltcoats.

Port Moody. BC.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2020, at 5:09 PM, Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143) <rtne...@gmail.com> wrote:



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<Where to find Offshore Prep doc.jpg>

[Joe Valinoti]

That appears to be some serious corrosion, Simon, and needs to be cleaned up so you can see how deep the pitting is.  Also, if (in your signature) you put the town where the boat is located, you might get a Nonsuch owner nearby with experience of that same problem to contact you.  

 

Happy New Year to all,

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

--

[Sprio]

Hey Simon, 

Having owned an aluminum yacht and therefor seen some aluminum corrosion issues before, this doesn't look too bad in my opinion. Could you clean it up and show another picture? Try not to scratch the surface too deep while removing the oxide.

I love your plans about sailing the NS30 on the Atlantic. What will your destination be; Bermuda, Europe, the I65 to the Caribbean or some place else? 

Mark

N36#25

nld

Op donderdag 31 december 2020 om 22:46:33 UTC+1 schreef ogle...@gmail.com:

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Simon,

I am going to disagree with Mark from the Netherlands, even though he knows far more about aluminium than I do.

Obviously the mast is critical on any sail boat. In the case of the Nonsuch the only thing holding up the mast is the integrity of the aluminum. The corrosion on your mast is located near the highest load points on the mast. Those are just above and just below the deck. Unless your mast has been replaced it is now about 33 years old and has gone through a large number of oscillation cycles. Your planned journey can put your boat and mast into conditions that it was not designed for. I think you want to be absolutely sure that it is sound. You will definitely want to see if Mike Quill is willing to provide you with some advice. You might also want to send a picture to Klacko, the makers of the mast to see what they think. They have provided suggests to Nonsuch owners in the past that did not simply involve replacing the mast.   http://www.klackospars.com

Before you head off on your planned journey you need to unstep the mast and give it a complete inspection and replace anything that is suspect. You will want to confirm that the mast joint has been updated and is sound. You will want to make sure the sail track fastenings are all in good order with no stripped threads or broken rivets. You may also want to consider a separate track for a storm trysail.

In addition to reading "Without Rival" you should also read "Dangerous Waters" by David Philpott. He had some experiences with his mast and sails that may be instructive. I agree with Bob that the Rob Mazza memo is essential reading for you. I also agree with Ernie that there are a lot of boats in a similar size that would be better suited to the journey. Ocean sailing is outside of my experience. I spoke to a fellow who sailed his 30 Nonsuch at least from British Columbia down through the Panama Canal and into the Caribbean if not completely around the world. He told me the biggest problem was running down wind at night in big seas. As the waves came through the boat would roll and the boom would dig into the wave. The boat would round up to a certain degree and the boom would come in. As the boom lifted out of the water it would slam forward. The night made it harder to see the waves coming in. I have not been able to confirm it through the results documents but the story/rumour is that a Nonsuch 30 won its division in the Victoria to Maui race many years ago.  So the Nonsuch 30 is capable of making ocean passages, it is just that there are other boats better suited to the task.

Are you planning on following the ARC group across or going on your own?

Mark Powers

[Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC]

I'd not go far with that mast.  Might be repairable in the right hands. Going sailing as is boils down what Clint Eastwood once said.... how lucky are you? 

Speaking with Mike Q.  would be a good start.

 

If you want so sail across oceans there are better sailboat choices IMHO.  Inability to heave to is a deal breaker for me, particularly when solo or short handed.

[Ken Dakin]

Elsewhere in this group, from another member, I had read that the nonsuch has too big a cockpit, too small scuppers and lacks a bridgedeck  between the cockpit and cabin for  open ocean sailing. Whether that’s the case or not I do not know. By bridgedeck, I mean a raised deck at the companionway to separate a water filled cockpit from the cabin. 

Ken Dakin 

NS 33 #007

Sashay

Kingston ON

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:40 PM, Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC <thor....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[kdwil...@gmail.com]

Simon,

I had this exact same problem in the exact same area. The insulation between the aluminum mast and stainless collar had completely worn away over the years. After enough saltwater splashed over it set up the perfect storm and was chewing through the mast. 

As others have said you need to clean it up to get a real idea of the damage. Hopefully yours won’t be as bad as mine was. After a lot of head scratching and discussions with people smarter than me (including members of this group) and Klacko spars this was the solution we came up with:

1. Clean all of the corrosion out. My yard did this with a sandblaster. 

2. Coated the area with an epoxy primer and paint to seal and to help guard against future corrosion. 

3. Re-insulated the collar with a layer of 3m 5200. Spread it on the inside of the collar and let it cure while step 4 was going on. 

4.  Klacko spars manufactured and prepped a seven foot section of aluminum extrusion and cut a slit vertically several inches wide. This allowed the guys at the boatyard to use straps to squeeze it enough to slide in to the bottom of the mast. The fit was very tight. It took them fabricating a piece to add to the bottom to sledgehammer it in using a lot of dawn soap and cussing a lot. I was not their most favorite customer for the two days it took them to position it. In essence I now have a second mast from the bottom up 7 ft to reinforce the existing one. 

This was the only solution we could come up with short of replacing the whole mast. That low down and as worn through as several areas were I was not willing to risk it. I could very easily visualize it snapping at that point in heavy weather or a hard beat. 

I have pictures of the process and the contact info for Klacko if you’d like it. Let me know if you need any of it. 

I can’t speak on crossing the Atlantic in our boats but I definitely wouldn’t do it without reenforcing that area and probably others before attempting. 

Stay safe and fair winds

Kevin Wilson

NS30 #475, “Adagio”

Biloxi, MS

[Simon James]

Thank you Kevin and Mark, and others who replied to my thread.

All the comments seem good and reasonable.

I bought the boat in Brighton, UK In May 2019. A few months after this I removed the mast and after a lot of reasearch epoxied the mast joint together permanently with west systems’g-flex’. Since then I have put the mast through its paces, and my boat is now on the sth coast of Spain for the winter.

Iclosely inspected the length of the mast and would do again before any big voyage. So far everything performs well, wedges are tight, as is mast step and mast base. There was a hairline crack (10-15mm) coming from a mast join thru bolt hole, no doubt caused by to much play in mast joint before mast joint was epoxied. I think this crack is not a concern now that mast Joint is epoxied, and the stress spread over the whole joint, but I welcome opinions on this..

The mast is likely  original. 

I have read the off shore comments from Rob Mazda, and read a few previous threads on taking these boats off shore, all good stuff.

Obviously these boats are not the best for an offshore trip, however the trip from Canneries to Caribbean is generally a predictable down wind trip, but I will be making solid back up hatch covers and solid companion way shutters for peace of mind

I read the often referred to article in practice sailor:https://www.practical-sailor.com/sailboat-reviews/nonsuch-30

About the off shore capability of a Nonsuch, good article but Im not so sure about the dangers it mentioned of such a large cockpit area in a heavy sea. If the boat got ‘pooped’ how much water would it hold, 150gallons? Not enough to cause stability problems perhaps, I wonder if this has ever happened?

Simon

[Sprio]

WOW

First, let me apologize because I was under the impression that you were in the US or Canada so I assumed that you were planning a crossing to Europe or another logic destination from that starting point. I'm so pleased and excited to read that you're actually in Europe and are going down the same route as I did - 5 years ago. It was not with a Nonsuch unfortunately, but similar preparations I guess. 

One thing I did get from your first post straight away was that you are serious. Unbolting the mast block collar is not something that you do, just for the fun of it. Emergency mast same thing. Only an ignorant idiot would NOT check anything and everything before crossing the pond. Speaking of idiots, my crossing went a bit south because of a failing chainplate on day 3. Something I neglected to do: should have dismantled the paneling to have access to the underneath of those chainplates to eyeball their construction... Doubt everything, second guessing anything: your life may depend on it.

I can't tell you much about sailing a Nonsuch across, but I do know the route, waves, wind, current, Canaries, Cabo Verde, Suriname and the Caribbean. If you need ANY help or advise or even a companion on a leg of your trip.... pLeAsE don't think twice and reach out. I would love to do the Ayamonte to the Canaries or Marok (yep) a second time. Wowie!

I'm sure Mike Quill is an expert and would speak wise words but he can't judge from the pictures you've shared here. Same goes for the manufacturer Klackospars. Another thing is that they can't help you because you are nowhere near a Nonsuch expert: you are on your own. Therefore, I would start by cleaning up that corrosion mess as well as possible. After that I would Acid wash and flush thoroughly and then judge the state of the aluminium (and showing us the pictures of course). I don't think Mark Powers would disagree, would you Mark?

 

mark

n36#25

nld

Op zaterdag 2 januari 2021 om 11:54:56 UTC+1 schreef ogle...@gmail.com:

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Mark H,

 Me, disagree?

I think carefully cleaning the area, taking careful measurements and taking good quality pictures to share with the group, Mike Quill and Klacko is a good idea.

Simon,

There are 6.23 imperial gallons in a cubic foot of water and and salt water weighs about 10.02 pounds per gallon so about 63.5 pounds per cubic foot. Your estimate of 150 gallons would put the weight at 1500 pounds. I assume (always risky) that you estimate that to be the volume of the foot well. If so the water will be able to move around as it climbs into the seating area. This creates what is referred to as free surface effect. In a seaway you could have a 100 0pounds rushing from one side of the cockpit to the other. I don't have measurements for the cockpit on the 30, however you are looking at two levels.  There is the foot well and the seating area. The companionway is taller than the coaming so if the companionway is closed the entire area could theoretically fill before water spills over the coaming. For discussion purposes I will assume the seats are 1.5 feet high and 2 feet apart and the distance from the companion way to the propane locker is assumed to be 6 feet. 1.5 x 2 x 6 gives 18 cubic feet or 1125 pounds.  Assuming the seating area is 1.5 ft deep, 8 ft long and 8 ft wide gives an additional 96 cubic ft or 6000 pounds. A life raft case measuring 2ft x 2ft x 1.5 ft used to form a bridge deck in front of the companionway would reduce the volume of the foot well by 6 cubic feet and the eight of water by 375 pounds. A worthwhile reduction. Increasing the size of the cockpit drains and adding 2 more to the front of the cockpit would also be a worthwhile activity.

A 1.5 inch hole with 1 ft of water about it 36.5 imperial gallons per minute, 2 feet of water above it will flow about 52 gpm, a 2" hole with a 1 ft head 65 gpm and with a 2 ft head about 92.5 gpm. The two 1.5" drains you currently have will drain around

73 to 104 gpm and four 2" drains would eliminate about 260 to 416 gpm. Those are theoritical flow rates and a number of factors will reduce the flow. Thiese factors would include the lenght of the drain hose run and whether the outlets are above or below the water line.

I hope my calculations are correct.

Mark Powers

[Sprio]

Good heavens Mark, are you a mathematician, or worse an accountant in daily life? :-)

If you get washed over by an enormous breaker and your cockpit would turn in to a swimming pool, it would be at-least 15,9% foam, just like a proper beer. I also think that the contents won't stay in there very long because most will splash out in seconds, just like a proper beer. The boat will not be level in such conditions... (no comment)

Seriously, I'd worry a little about the ability of closing the companionway watertight when you really have to, but that's it.

The Canaries are very close to the tropics and the Cabo Verde Islands are in. The weather is very predictable November 'till March. Temperatures get better, especially at night, every mile you get closer to the Carib. 

To be honest, getting to Europe, leaving the US, is a greater challenge. Your route will be somewhere 30°N and that's a completely different ballgame, temperature wind and current wise. Better to put it on a freighter going that direction imho :-)

mark - n36#25 - nld

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

I can't speak to the conditions that'll be encountered on this particular voyage,  That's something those taking it have to consider and factor into calculating what they decide constitutes acceptable risk.  

I would note that Mark P's weight calculations are assuming that:

1. You only get pooped once
2. None of the water from previous poopings gets below and adds to the weight from the next one

Allowing myself amazing amounts of alliteration, the commodious companionway could, if not closed off, create a crushing cock-up by conducting copious quantities of Canaries / Cape Verdean water below.    So, Simon, I'm glad to hear you're paying attention to that issue.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143

[Joe Valinoti]

Bob, that was actually and amazing amount of alliteration

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

From: Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)

Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 3:38 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Mark,

 I was not a mathematician, account or an engineer. I was much worse than that. I was and still am one of those Busy Body Know It All kind.

You know far more about crossing the Atlantic in a sail boat than I do. My calculations were intended to show that 150 gallons of water could have an impact on stability and that it might be more than 150 gallons. You are correct building a companion way door strong enough and keeping it in place may be a bigger challenge.

I my previous post I did forget to mention that there was a 36 Nonsuch that safely crossed the Atlantic from West to East about a year ago.

Mark Powers

[John Alexander Stewart]

Bob - I once owned a boat - a Contessa - that was from the moulds of an OOD design - Petersen 34 - one of the designs that had trouble in the Fastnet race where a few boats sank. Was going to bring it back from Europe, but life interfered. 

Anyway, reverse transom, no real bridge, and in the Fastnet, the issue was that, when the companionway boards washed away, the boat was going down as the seas would go up the reverse transom.

One of the outcomes was the "rule" of ensuring that the bottom companionway boards were captive, not just sitting in the groove.

(it was a fantastic boat to sail; around the Med; would have been fun to take it back to lake Ontario. I lost track of it after a few years)

John NS26C 046 Ottawa.

[John Alexander Stewart]

MarkS:

As per your "the boat will not be level" - an old (literally) friend took her NS33 from Florida where GeorgeH exhibited it at the Miami Boat Show, to the Carribean with her son. On the way there, reefed, on a port tack, they "dipped the sail in the water". 

The issues they had were a) the water caught in the foot of the reefed sail, and b) the mainsheet being cleated on the side of the boat that was below the surface.

(The lady's always calm and optimistic; words were something like "thought we were going to lose her, but she eventually came up".)

Anyway, a little story for a sunny afternoon after a bit of a snow storm!

John NS26C 046 Ottawa

[Mike BIANKA]

Simon

Your mast situation is most interesting and I dare say might be the same for many of our Nonsuches dare we were to look. So photos and updates here would be much appreciated.

Also if you could show some photos and procedure with epoxying the mast joint I'm sure it would be helpful to other owners too.

[Tom Schoenhofer 26C#28 North Star Penetanguishene]

Just for fun:

N26 Normal displacement 8500lb but for a long passage would be much higher.

Volume     cubic feet      Water lb/c ft       lb
Hull            883                         63               55629 weight of water if the total hull volume filled 
Cockpit     51                           63               3213    completely filled to the brim
footwell    15                           63               945     just the footwell filled

It may not be the first wave to fill the cockpit that is the problem but I would certainly start getting worried after the second wave if it was allowed to go below. The solid companion way door at least as high as the top of the footwell would be a good idea.

Tom

N26 #28

Penetang

[Simon James]

Hi All

I will not be back on board until around September, so will not be able to post any more news or pics on mast corrosion until then.

Have  been in touch with Mike Quill and he said that this is a common problem, and can result in a crack forming and spreading behind the mast bracket... unseen.

He recommended not Starting an ocean crossing with the mast in this condition.

Once I head back to the boat later in the year I will do a dye test on the corroded areas and make a decision from there.

Will update this thread then.

Thanks for all the feedback

Simon Cleaver

Nonsuch # 423

[Simon James]

IHi

So I made it back on board Julie Marie, have cleaned up the mast corrosion, and thankfully the mast corrosion was only 1mm max depth, although it looks deeper in the pics...

So have painted it up , and replaced rubber between mast and bracket

The Corrosion was worse on the was worse on the bracket that had thinner rubber 1/16”, so I think 1/8” rubber is the minimum to stop the metals reactiing.. here is a pic

SV Julie Marie

Also, does anyone know the wall thickness of a Nonsuch mast  at 1’ above deck level?

NSU 423

Spain

[Mike]

Simon

A few Nonsuches have crossed the Atlantic and you seem to be doing a thorough checkout. Also the Nonsuch is one tough boat as the book Without Rival has chronicled. Looking forward to hearing more our your plans and trip.

I'd also be most interested in hearing more about the mast joint Gflex epoxy joint repair. Did you do it with the mast off the boat and in a horizontal position or vertically ? An article and/or pictures would be most interesting to Nonsuch owners like myself if you can find the time.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

biankablog.blogspot.com 

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[Sprio]

Hi Simon, having seen the last picture you've posted, I think Mike Quill was right advising against an Atlantic ocean crossing with the mast in this condition. Although not all aluminium-oxide has been properly removed, severe pitting can be seen. When all oxide is taken out, the sight will worsen even more.

To still sail the boat across, I would think of an -out of the box- solution like placing a full size supporting pipe (sleeve) under decks and shortening the mast by a meter for example. I'm sure other ideas are out there.

mark, n36#25, NLD - Europe

[Mike BIANKA]

What about welding some aluminum bars around the outside of the mast to to bridge the corrosion area in question to beef up the area?

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

 

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Nonsuches, with their unstayed masts, are, IMHO, serious targets for dismasting out on the open ocean with its powerful swells, high winds and cross currents, etc. Our masts will simply never stop whipping around out there and the boom will never stop clanging into the mast. Just imagine the racket .....  To me, this simply means that boats with stayed masts are more likely to make the trip unscathed. I do realize that ALL kinds of sailboats, big and small, cross oceans but I think that their success is, at least, partially due to the key elements of the vessel (read as: the things most likely to break or the known "weak links") being in darn good shape.

I feel that most of us Nonsuchers will accept that the weakest link on our boats is the unstayed two-piece mast. And, I bet that's why the designer considered it fit for coastal voyages or a lifetime on inland waters, not a trip across the ocean. 

I really think that, unless this mast is totally re-built (if that is possible) by a highly qualified professional, such that it ends up in pristine condition, crossing the ocean will put the skipper and anyone else on board in a very risky position. Or, you'll be luckier and only lose the boat.

I'd listen to Mike Quill and give all of this a good think.

Best of luck.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Bob Illingworth]

If a new mast is required or further advice, these can be obtained from Danny Klacko at http://www.klackospars.com/

 

Bob Illingworth

Nonsuch Luck 30U #367 (GBR1262T)

Moored Brightlingsea, Essex, UK; cruising the rivers of East Anglia, and, the North Sea.

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto
Sent: 01 September 2021 22:44
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Corrosion behind mast bracket..

 

Nonsuches, with their unstayed masts, are, IMHO, serious targets for dismasting out on the open ocean with its powerful swells, high winds and cross currents, etc. Our masts will simply never stop whipping around out there and the boom will never stop clanging into the mast. Just imagine the racket .....  To me, this simply means that boats with stayed masts are more likely to make the trip unscathed. I do realize that ALL kinds of sailboats, big and small, cross oceans but I think that their success is, at least, partially due to the key elements of the vessel (read as: the things most likely to break or the known "weak links") being in darn good shape.

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[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

That url triggers all sorts of warnings from my security software, and also seems to no longer belong to Klacko Spars.

Klacko Marine, an affiliated company, has a working site at https://klacko.ca/ and could probably tell you what's going on with Klacko Spars and its website:

                                           KLACKO MARINE INC.,Telephone: +1(905)945-2579, Email: doug@klackomarine.com

-- Bob

   Solar Wind, Nonsuch 26C #143 (until next Tuesday)

   and Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233 (from now through the foreseeable future)

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Bob and Bob -

I am certain that Klacko Spars definitely exists, out in Oakville, 45 minutes west of Toronto. It is run by Danny Klacko and is the best known mast and spar specialist, I'd say, in Canada. Danny Klacko and Mike Quill work very closely together. When I had Mike Quill redo my mast (when I bought MOUSTACHES) in 2012, he showed up with Danny Klacko to pick it up with Danny's crazy long mast trailer. When it was (beautifully) finished, they both delivered it back to me. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that, just maybe, Danny did some of the work on it.

This URL   http://www.klackospars.com/   works fine (at least, on my laptop) and brings up Klacko Spars. They are VERY, VERY busy.

This URL   https://klacko.ca/  brings up Klacko Marine, a company that I haven't actually heard of, that is located another 45 minutes further down the road in St. Catharines where, coincidentally, Mike Quill's shop is located. Hmmmm ..........  

The name KLACKO is not the most common name in the world and I'm betting that there is a definite connection between these two enterprises. Possibly, they are the same outfit but, somehow, I think not. However, Danny Klacko, of Klacko Spars is the go-to guy, certainly up here, for masts and definitely for Nonsuches.

I do not know who DOUG is, with Klacko Marine. But, I'm sure that this company exists and that they, too, do darn good work.

Simon -

I hope that you are able to find an absolute expert in the area of aluminum and spun aluminum, etc.  I don't want to be reading about a Nonsuch that had its mast collapse midway through an ocean crossing.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

Apparently, both Klacko Spars and Klacko Marine are spin-offs of Bruckmann and C&C.  Originally each run by brothers Danny and Martin Klacko, respectively.  Martin Klacko at Klacko Marine retired and handed that company off to Doug. 

Klacko Spars does spars and rigging, Klacko Marine does metal fabrication, machining, welding, etc.

I apologize for making people think that http://www.klackospars.com was inactive. 

For anyone interested in the story behind the warning I posted, let me explain a small internet technical issue.  Note that klackospar's website address starts with "HTTP:"  There's actually a difference between websites that start with "HTTP:" vs. those that start with "HTTPS:"  (like this discussion group and Nonsuch.org).  The extra "S" after "HTTP" indicates a higher level of security that makes it harder for hackers to inject malware into a website.  Such malware can work its way over to your computer when you go to a site.

As a carryover from a previous life, I have very strong security software on my computer that literally refuses to take me to any site that starts with "HTTP."   Instead, it tries to see if there's an "HTTPS" version that it can take me to.  Usually, I don't notice because many places have converted over and it just works. 

I looked a little closer after seeing Ernie's message and realized the security warnings I was referring to were triggered because Klacko Spars apparently hasn't upgraded to HTTPS.  This is the computer equivalent of your store being located in a bad neighborhood.  It doesn't mean that going there guarantees customers'll get mugged, but it does mean that the chances are higher and folks going there need to be more careful. 

I'm trying to post this in a way that's fair to all.  Having worked in the field, I feel obligated to warn people about computer issues.  On the other hand, rent in good neighborhoods is a lot higher, and having state of the art computer security is damn expensive.  Small businesses have lots to deal with, and I don't want to cost Klacko any customers. 

So, I don't want to discourage people from dealing with Klacko.   I do want to encourage people to be careful with websites.  In the interests of not hijacking the thread, if anyone wants to discuss computer security questions, please email me personally using the "reply to author" button or my email address at the top of this post.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind, Nonsuch 26C #143 (until Tuesday)
   Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233 (for the foreseeable future)

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Mr. Neches -

Do not feel bad about hijacking the thread. Your IT info regarding HTTPS is very timely and useful. Much appreciated.

Regarding Klacko or the other Klacko ..... i would not hesitate to place my trust in these businesses. They have a sterling reputation (like Bruckmann, Hinterhoeller, Mike Quill, C&C, etc.).

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Sprio]

Unfortunately TS is located in Spain (Europe) and will probably not call on the services of any overseas company. Having a new mast manufactured is expensive but shipping it to Europe makes it close to double the price. Not a good idea imho.

Welding a Nonsuch mast, to my knowledge about aluminium welding, should never ever be done. There is a reason why airplanes are still riveted. Welding seriously alters the properties of the aluminium. All you have to do, to read up on this, is google it. 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=welding+aluminium+weakens

mark, n36#25, NLD Europe

Op woensdag 1 september 2021 om 22:32:57 UTC+2 schreef Mike BIANKA:

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

Re-reading this whole discussion just now brings home to me why Joe keeps urging people to put location information in their posts, because a lot of discussion and suggestions (mine included) has been somewhat misdirected due to not being aware of the boat's location and intended route. 

That said, Simon, although Mark is right that shipping costs may preclude buying or building anything outside the EU for you, Mike Quill (905-935-3455 preceded by the Canadian country code for calling from Spain, or mqu...@cogeco.ca) is your best bet for answering your question about the thickness of an N30 mast at 1' above deck level.

I'm also going to do an off-line introduction between you and an INA member who is a retired Marine Safety Engineer and may be an additional source of advice.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind, Nonsuch 26C #143 (until Tuesday)
   Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233 (for the foreseeable future)

   Marina del Rey, CA (where conditions are nothing like what an ocean crossing entails)

[Joe Valinoti]

I have this weak recollection of someone who sleeved their broken mast sometime in the past.  That may be a solution.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)

Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2021 2:07 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Subject: Re: Corrosion behind mast bracket..

 

--

[Mike BIANKA]

Joe 

I have a PDF file of someone with a 36 doing some major rework on their mast back around 2010. Must be in the INA maintenance files somewhere too.

[Joe Valinoti]

Why not put it out on the discussion list, Mike.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[John Alexander Stewart]

Mike;

I read that, too (*). Did not find it in the maintenance files on nonsuch.org, but maybe I did not look in the right place.

Here's the results of a google search:

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/34837634/nonsuch-36-mast-repair-international-nonsuch-association

It's the one I remember from the cover picture, although I did not download this from the website shown in my link above. Hopefully it's the one you remember, too.

John NS26C 046 Kingston/Ottawa.

[John Alexander Stewart]

Mike, Joe, 

the following wayback machine link may bring up the document on the 36 mast repair:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150928000127/http://www.nonsuch.org/assets/docs/articlesrepairs/mast.pdf

It does not seem to be on the current nonsuch.org site, or am I blind as usual? Probably...

John NS26C 046 Kingston/Ottawa

[David Easley]

The description of the repair is contained in a thread titled "Wintering with mast in place" from the July/August 2018 time period.  The information was provided by KDWILSON75, owner of ADAGIO.

Dave Easley

'87  NS30U  #420  BIG EASY

Port Charlotte, FL

[Michael Girardo]

Joe

I'll try to see if I can post it.

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[Mike BIANKA]

John

Yes, that is the article I have. Thanks for the info and link.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island