Considering electric conversion

[Ron Weber]

I would greatly appreciate input from members who have already completed a conversion or even contemplating the move. I am seeking opinions of the system you chose and the reasons why and are you happy with the result. It looks like near home sailing will be our foreseeable future so I am not that concerned about extended range. We have to motor for about 1/2 hour at 4-5 knots to get to open water depending on the tide state.

I am excited about the prospect of electric and look forward to hearing from those who have already done the work. 

Thank you,

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Ron,

Based on responses to the informal poll I did a few months ago on the discussion group, there are at least nine electric Nonsuch owners out there.

If you go forward, you'll find it much quieter and maintenance will go to near zero.

Are you currently inboard or outboard powered?  And what's the HP on your current engine?

Are you considering doing it yourself, or paying someone to design and/or just install it?

There are a range of options depending on your answers.  

If you're looking for more information to decide which way to go, here's my personal experience.  I did most of the work myself on installing an ElectricYacht Qt 10.0 with 8 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) 100 Amp batteries configured to serve as a 48V 200 Amp power source.  Physically removing the diesel required youth and equipment that I lacked.  Otherwise, I found doing the work myself completely doable as someone who's reasonably handy but nowhere near a master craftsman.  There's a long account of it on the Nonsuch.org website under Members Tips & Projects.

Short summary: I'm happy with it.   I spent the considerably extra money on LiFePO4 rather than Lithium Ion or AGM because I was attracted to the longer lifetimes, greater fire safety, and lighter weight that made it feasible to install more in a smaller space.  ElectricYacht was reasonably helpful, well-priced, and made it easy to configure a plug-and-play kit of motors, controllers, chargers, monitors, instruments, and throttle controls. 

In the 15 months since I committed to them, some of their competitors have come out with spiffier looking products at competitive prices, so today I would take new looks at EPropulsion, Torqueedo, Elco, and OceanVolt.  If you're very skilled at electrical systems and don't need your hand held to configure your own system, ThunderStruck is also worth a look.   But ElectricYacht is still a simple, reliable choice.

Under similar usage conditions to yours, of 45-60 minutes under power at 5 kts per average sailing outing, my approx. 9500 lbs. displacement N26 usually uses at most 10% of the available battery power.  There have been days when things came up that required more speed and motoring for longer periods, but I've yet to use more than 20% of my 200 Amp capacity.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[RONALD WEBER]

Bob,

 

Thank you so much for that thorough assessment and sharing your experience.

 

I have a Westerbeke W10-2 and I too am getting past the point where crawling into the cave to do maintenance is no longer my favorite Sunday thing to do.

 

I was looking at the Electric Yacht Quiet Torque 5.0 KW system. I really like the simplification of their installation, it seems like an easy swap out and the controls should be a no brainer to install.

 

I was pondering the battery bank that I would need and it seems like Renogy has a good solution. I have used their solar panels and am happy with the quality.

 

I wasn't sure where to find that information on the INA website, so I appreciate that tip for Tips and Tricks.

 

Thanks again for sharing and I am happy to see that you are pleased with your system

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Mike BIANKA]

Ron

Having the first Nonsuch to convert to electric propulsion back in 2008 I can honestly say I never regretted the move. Though back then it was a leap of faith as so few boats had removed their engines an put in electric motors. Some of my thinking back then went like this:

I choose a Thoosa 9000 system from ASMO Marine now Eclean Marine. They were an established European supplier and provided a turn key system. They used an off the shelf LEMCO motor. Which I liked just in case I should ever need to replace or find parts for it no matter where I was with the boat. Happy to say I never had any issues with the motor in the 15 years since BIANKA went electric.

I also went with with 8A4D 200 Amp hour AGM batteries. Again back then I was thinking that if I was heading down the Intercoastal waterway and developed a bad battery I could replace it within 24 hours locally and be on my way. Lithium batteries were just coming on the market but they were expensive and had long delivery times. That has changed and this years I pulled out the 400 pounds of 200 Amp AGM batteries and replaced it with a single 100 pound 105 Amp Allied Lithium battery this year which has made a great improvement in my system.

It's one nice things about going electric besides low maintenance is that is easy to upgrade as the technology changes.

I chronicled the conversion of my Nonsuch on my boat blog starting with this post:  https://biankablog.blogspot.com/2008/05/going-electric.html

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Ron -

I may be wrong but I think that yours would be the first NS 22 to convert. I believe that all the rest are bigger (heavier, beamier) boats. My NS 22, fully loaded up, with outboard attached, in the slings, weighs 5800 lbs. The empty weight of an NS 26 is 8500 lbs. Big difference.

All the best with this.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mike BIANKA]

Ernie

Electric conversion weight should not be an issue even on a Nonsuch 22. The electric motor on my 30U weighs just 45 pounds. I carried it on board my boat for the install in a boat bag. My new Allied 48 volt 100 amp Lithium battery weighs about 100 pounds. I imagine Ron's current Westerbeke weighs more than both combined.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

We looked a several manufacturers when we decided to go electric.  Thoosa was my first choice, but when I talked to them they told me that they were so backed up it would be at least a year before they could provide a system for me.  We went with Electric Yacht for the simple reason that everything would come from one source no hassles if something went wrong.  We have been more than happy with them and with our conversion.  There is an outfit called Thunderstruck that is interesting, much cheaper, but you are more or less building your own system, they are certainly worth considering if you are resourceful and electrically handy.  We did all of the work ourselves and nothing was difficult except my obsession with running the controls up through the binnacle  instead of hanging them on the out side.  That took two of us an entire day.  We had been advised not to try it, but I wanted that clean look. In the end I am glad that we did it, but that was the toughest part of the whole project. 

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[Tim Cordes]

I just spent my first weekend on my conversion project.  The motor was a removed for me by a mechanic last week, and I spent Saturday and Sunday cleaning the engine room.  My engine room was exceptionally dirty, because the reason I decided to convert was serious leaking around the exhaust elbows.   There was so much soot in there that it looked like the entire tunnel had been evenly sprayed with vanta black paint.

Tim - I am interested in your approach of running the Electric Yacht control cables up the pedestal.  I plan on removing the old shifter and throttle levers and shafts, and passing the control cables through one of the empty holes.  My concern is chafe from the steering cables, so I was thinking of bundling the control wires in either wire loom or a PVC pipe inside the pedestal.  I've got to open the pedestal anyway to replace the wheel brake and refill the compass.  Do you think a pipe/loom solution is a good idea, or will everything just stay out the way on its own?  How did you do yours?

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Joe Valinoti]

As soon as you open that pedestal, Tim, start soaking those 4 bolts and tap on the heads as often as you can.  They do not like to come out!!

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[RONALD WEBER]

This is really good advise - been there done that.

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[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

Tim, Chafe was a big concern of mine.  We used two 1/4" PEX tubing fed from below up through the pedestal.  The hardest part was removing the old control cables. Lots of "magic" words were used.  You can just barley see the PEX sticking out and tied off to one side with a zip tie.  We led the tubing toward the forward bulkhead in gentle curves.  I'll try to find a photo of that.

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

Here is a photo showing the PEX coming out at the bottom of the pedestal.  We used the two holes that the control cables had used.

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[Tim Cordes]

I hadn't thought of using PEX as "sleeves" for the cable.  That would essentially make the cables behave almost like the old control cables.  I will be swiping that idea.

Thanks for the tip on the pedestal bolts, Joe.  I had heard they can be difficult.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Tim Cordes]

That looks great, Tim.

I was planning on putting my batteries as far aft as possible to have my cockpit scuppers drain better.  I'm using two 48v96AH Dakota LiFEPo batteries at 71 pounds each, and with the Electric Yacht QT 10 weighing in at 77 lbs, I thought that moving weight aft would offset the removal of my 290 lb Westerbeke 13a diesel.  I have a little shelf in the port laz that I guess used to hold a refrigerator compressor, and the cardboard mock-up of the battery fits nicely.  I'll have to tab in a similar shelf to starboard, but I thought that I would drill a 2-inch hole in the aft rudder post support to run the wires through from port to starboard.   Does all that seem reasonable?

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Mike BIANKA]

I added a PVC tube behind the wheel to act as a conduit for not only the boats motor control wires but, also Chartplotter, AIS display, 12 volt power outlet and wires to my homemade battery monitor display. It made running wires very easy. It came in very handy two years ago when I installed a helm mounted VHF mic and made the wiring run very easy as well.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island 

[RONALD WEBER]

Very nice looking installation. And thanks for sharing.

 

Ron

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[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

That's very nice Mike.  There is no way in the world that I could ever get a third wire up through the pedestal.  As I said, running those two PEX conduits up through the pedestal took two men a full day. 

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Tim,

That looks like a very good plan from a balance standpoint.  My 8 LifePo4 batteries added up 248 lbs. so I'm impressed that you're getting almost the same total amps for 100 lbs less weight.  Mine are placed just forward of the rudder post rather than aft, and with 20-20 hindsight I'd put them further back. 

There are a lot of forces on the rudder, and the rudder post supports are structural  to resisting them.   As an alternative to drilling through one, you might consider running a conduit just above it for the wiring to pass through.  That would keep it neat and avoid any risk of compromising a key structural unit.  I'm not an expert, so you may be ok with doing it as a cut-through -- but the cost would be high if it didn't work out.  

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

FWIW, I ran the wires to the pedestal by putting some cable glands in the cockpit floor.  Drilled two holes, sealed the sides of each with epoxy.

I ran the wiring up a tube secured to the sides of the pedestal with hose clamps.   

Not nearly as clean as Tim's job on White O'morn, but saved a lot of time and cursing.

If I'd wanted to make it nicer, I probably could've secured the cables directly to the vertical stainless and popped some kind of a cover containing both.  I did separate cable clams for the two cables but you can also buy single units that handle both.

My cockpit sole is covered with an outdoor plastic tile that costs about $3-4 a square foot.   I'm very happy with it.  I've got great traction and drainage.   If I ever get to doing a tighter, cleaner job of the cut-out around the cable glands and pedestal foot, I'll have to replace one tile.  I can probably handle that cost.  

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233   

[Mike BIANKA]

Tim
With each new project my thinking leans to how can I make this an easy installation and how will I access it if I have to repair or change it. With helm conduit project I was pleased to find that the deck fill fitting I used to fill the hole in the deck also fit a PVC fitting that I used as part of the conduit run. 

project

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Tim Cordes]

Bob - Thanks for your thoughts on drilling the rudder post support.  I was concerned about the same thing.  I think I will probably go with the conduit idea.  I was concerned about loose cables fouling the steering, but a conduit would take care of that problem.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Tim Cordes]

That looks like a very neat install, Mike.  I just have such an aversion to making new holes in the hull or deck that the thought of going up the pedestal seems worth the work.  That being said, a while ago I did make a new hole underneath the pedestal guard rail to run power for my chartplotter through the tubing.  I don't think I let the epoxy I filled the hole with cure long enough before I drilled it out, though, and now I think I have epoxied the wire in place.

I probably need get over my phobia about new holes and focus on making them tidy and watertight like yours.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Mike BIANKA]

Tim

Something you might want to consider in your plans is that while the wires may be able to run through the pedestal the connector may not. Which will require rewiring the connector after running the wire.  The PVC tube I used as a conduit had enough space to run the motor control wire with the connector. As well as other wires I needed at the helm. I'm glad I went this route as the install was so much easier especially as I get older. :)

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

You are right Mike, we did have to cut the wires and reattach, but that was easy to do.  Sometimes you get stuck on an idea and you just have to follow through, I'm glad I did, but next time I will go the easier route.

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[Rob Powers]

Hi Tim,

We had a similar leak in our old Westerbeke 21. The engine room looked like yours.

We used something called Oil Lift available in Canada. Should be in the U.S. as well.

Non toxic, cleans up with water, does not damage paint or gelcoat or your skin.

Great for oil spills anywhere on the boat.

Rob Powers

Respite 26C #50 1982

Sidney BC

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Tim,

One way to make a hole and protect the deck is to drill it a bit oversize, gouge out a bit of the core between the two fiberglass outer layers, and fill that gouged area with epoxy so that you end up with a smooth bore hole that presents epoxy all around to the outside world.  That lets you change cables later more easily.

Then bed whatever fitting you put over that  in your choice of caulking (I prefer Bed-It butyl tape myself, https://bed-it.com/).  Mike's repurposed fill fitting is one approach.  I prefer Blue Seas cable clams myself, https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/23/Cable_Clams.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[RONALD WEBER]

Bob,

 

Thanks again for the details of your installation. I am considering 2 X 50AH 48 volt batteries as adequate (and affordable) for my installation. What charger are you using for your system - 12 or 48 volt.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

On 09/11/2023 12:21 AM EDT Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233) <rtne...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

Ron,

 

Based on responses to the informal poll I did a few months ago on the discussion group, there are at least nine electric Nonsuch owners out there.

 

If you go forward, you'll find it much quieter and maintenance will go to near zero.

 

Are you currently inboard or outboard powered?  And what's the HP on your current engine?

 

Are you considering doing it yourself, or paying someone to design and/or just install it?

 

There are a range of options depending on your answers.  

 

If you're looking for more information to decide which way to go, here's my personal experience.  I did most of the work myself on installing an ElectricYacht Qt 10.0 with 8 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) 100 Amp batteries configured to serve as a 48V 200 Amp power source.  Physically removing the diesel required youth and equipment that I lacked.  Otherwise, I found doing the work myself completely doable as someone who's reasonably handy but nowhere near a master craftsman.  There's a long account of it on the Nonsuch.org website under Members Tips & Projects.

 

Short summary: I'm happy with it.   I spent the considerably extra money on LiFePO4 rather than Lithium Ion or AGM because I was attracted to the longer lifetimes, greater fire safety, and lighter weight that made it feasible to install more in a smaller space.  ElectricYacht was reasonably helpful, well-priced, and made it easy to configure a plug-and-play kit of motors, controllers, chargers, monitors, instruments, and throttle controls. 

 

In the 15 months since I committed to them, some of their competitors have come out with spiffier looking products at competitive prices, so today I would take new looks at EPropulsion, Torqueedo, Elco, and OceanVolt.  If you're very skilled at electrical systems and don't need your hand held to configure your own system, ThunderStruck is also worth a look.   But ElectricYacht is still a simple, reliable choice.

 

Under similar usage conditions to yours, of 45-60 minutes under power at 5 kts per average sailing outing, my approx. 9500 lbs. displacement N26 usually uses at most 10% of the available battery power.  There have been days when things came up that required more speed and motoring for longer periods, but I've yet to use more than 20% of my 200 Amp capacity.

 

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 6:26:19 PM UTC-7 Ron Weber wrote:

I would greatly appreciate input from members who have already completed a conversion or even contemplating the move. I am seeking opinions of the system you chose and the reasons why and are you happy with the result. It looks like near home sailing will be our foreseeable future so I am not that concerned about extended range. We have to motor for about 1/2 hour at 4-5 knots to get to open water depending on the tide state.

 

I am excited about the prospect of electric and look forward to hearing from those who have already done the work. 

 

Thank you,

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

 

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Ron,

I'm using the Delta-Q IC 1200 48Vdc 25A charger that ElectricYacht recommended for my installation.  I think if you've got 48V batteries, you need a 48V charger, although I could be wrong.

-- Bob

[Tim Cordes]

Tim (White O'morn): Did you replace the chain and wire on your pedestal while you had it cracked open?  Mine is almost certainly original, and even though a close visual inspection of the cable and sheaves shows them looking very good, they were installed in the early 1980s.  The boat has been freshwater its whole life (Great Lakes), and appears to have been relatively lightly used, but Edson's product videos have me a bit worried about "invisible stress cracks" in the chain.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

. . ."invisible stress cracks"  . . . .   Man I wish you hadn't said that.  Now I probably won't sleep tonight.  No, we did not replace the chain, it looked like new.  I will have to go through the PO's collection of receipts.  I hope he did replace it.  Maybe it's time to practice with the Emergency Tiller.

Seriously though, thanks for pointing that out.  For anyone else contemplating the switch that should be added to the checklist.

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[doncr...@gmail.com]

Speaking of the emergency tiller, you might want to ensure it fits properly on the top of the rudder shaft. Mine was a little tight and would only go on about ¼ of the way. I enlarged the square hole on the tiller a little with a metal file… fits fine now.

 

Don

’87 NS30U #369 - Breezin’

Vancouver, BC

 

 

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn
Sent: September 18, 2023 1:04 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Considering electric conversion

 

. . ."invisible stress cracks"  . . . .   Man I wish you hadn't said that.  Now I probably won't sleep tonight.  No, we did not replace the chain, it looked like new.  I will have to go through the PO's collection of receipts.  I hope he did replace it.  Maybe it's time to practice with the Emergency Tiller.

 

Seriously though, thanks for pointing that out.  For anyone else contemplating the switch that should be added to the checklist.

 

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

 

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 12:57:21 PM UTC-5 Tim Cordes wrote:

Tim (White O'morn): Did you replace the chain and wire on your pedestal while you had it cracked open?  Mine is almost certainly original, and even though a close visual inspection of the cable and sheaves shows them looking very good, they were installed in the early 1980s.  The boat has been freshwater its whole life (Great Lakes), and appears to have been relatively lightly used, but Edson's product videos have me a bit worried about "invisible stress cracks" in the chain.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:38:01 AM UTC-4 Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn wrote:

Tim, Chafe was a big concern of mine.  We used two 1/4" PEX tubing fed from below up through the pedestal.  The hardest part was removing the old control cables. Lots of "magic" words were used.  You can just barley see the PEX sticking out and tied off to one side with a zip tie.  We led the tubing toward the forward bulkhead in gentle curves.  I'll try to find a photo of that.

 

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

 

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-5 Tim Cordes wrote:

I just spent my first weekend on my conversion project.  The motor was a removed for me by a mechanic last week, and I spent Saturday and Sunday cleaning the engine room.  My engine room was exceptionally dirty, because the reason I decided to convert was serious leaking around the exhaust elbows.   There was so much soot in there that it looked like the entire tunnel had been evenly sprayed with vanta black paint.

 

Tim - I am interested in your approach of running the Electric Yacht control cables up the pedestal.  I plan on removing the old shifter and throttle levers and shafts, and passing the control cables through one of the empty holes.  My concern is chafe from the steering cables, so I was thinking of bundling the control wires in either wire loom or a PVC pipe inside the pedestal.  I've got to open the pedestal anyway to replace the wheel brake and refill the compass.  Do you think a pipe/loom solution is a good idea, or will everything just stay out the way on its own?  How did you do yours?

 

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

 

 

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-4 Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn wrote:

We looked a several manufacturers when we decided to go electric.  Thoosa was my first choice, but when I talked to them they told me that they were so backed up it would be at least a year before they could provide a system for me.  We went with Electric Yacht for the simple reason that everything would come from one source no hassles if something went wrong.  We have been more than happy with them and with our conversion.  There is an outfit called Thunderstruck that is interesting, much cheaper, but you are more or less building your own system, they are certainly worth considering if you are resourceful and electrically handy.  We did all of the work ourselves and nothing was difficult except my obsession with running the controls up through the binnacle  instead of hanging them on the out side.  That took two of us an entire day.  We had been advised not to try it, but I wanted that clean look. In the end I am glad that we did it, but that was the toughest part of the whole project. 

 

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

 

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[RONALD WEBER]

Don,

I'm glad you pointed that out about the fit of the emergency tiller, now I'll make sure to carry an emergency file just in case.

 

I have finally pretty well settled on my upgrade to electric. I am ready to order the 10KW system from Electric Yacht Co. I am initially going to install 100AH batteries at 48volts which actually operates the motor at 5KW which should be adequate for my N22. If more range or power is desired it can be accomplished by adding another 100AH.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Re fit of the emergency tiller -- as originally produced, I believe I read somewhere that the hole in it which fits over the rudder post was ever-so-slightly tapered.  Try flipping it over first before breaking out the files.

Ron, I'm not sure I understand your post.   I'm not sure what saying you're getting a 5 kW motor means.   It sounds like you're ordering the ElectricYacht QT10, since that's what they sell as their 10kW offering.  It runs on 48V power.  The Amperage Hours (AH) of the batteries refer to their capacity, that is, how long they take to drain (1 hour drawing 100 Amps or 100 hours drawing 1 Amp).  I don't think a the AH rating of your battery bank reduces the motor's power, just how long you can run it at a given speed.   How much a 10kW motor draws depends only on what speed you're running it. 

Adding more batteries later increase your range, but you should have all the power you need from the get-go. 

-- Bob

    Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Mike Jennings]

It's a good idea to check the emergency tiller. When I checked mine it was an adjustable wrench frozen at the wrong width and jammed into a plastic tube that was too long to go between the tiller stock and the wheel.

It could never have worked anyway because the angle of the wrench was wrong for the square on the stock.

Now, I really need to get mine out of the trunk and onto the boat.

Mike Jennings.

NSC5 Chancy (I'll say)

Port Moody, BC.

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[RONALD WEBER]

Hi Bob,

 

I share the same thoughts, however the rep for Electric Yacht stated that the 5KW and 10KW are the same motor - and they are the same price. 200AH is recommended for the 10KW and according to him the higher power consumption of the 10KW would be harmful to a 100AH battery so the controller is programed for 5KW max power. When an additional 100AH capacity is added then the max of 10KW power usage and/or extended range is achieved. So that's what I was told. True or not I plan to use two 48volt 50AH batteries and carry a back up generator in case I should ever need it. It may be a ploy to sell me more of their merchandise, but I plan to purchase the batteries from Renogy at almost half the price of the Dakota 100AH single battery they offer. I'm not sure I could even handle the 77 pound weight of the Dakota battery to install it in the confined space of the N22 engine compartment. All my comparison research indicates that the Renogy batteries are at least equal to the Dakota battery and I've had good experience with their other products so I am comfortable with that choice. The 5KW motor is rated as the correct size for my boat so either way it should be OK, I'll just run the same speed with my 100AH power source and should get the same range.

 

If I am missing something here I would be grateful for your guidance as you certainly have more experience with this system than I. My plan is to order it this Friday unless something comes up.

 

I have to admit, I won't miss all that extra stuff I had to carry around for the diesel maintenance. If I was planning on doing long distance trips the diesel would be appropriate but then again I'd need a bigger boat.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Michael Jabara]

Be VERY careful with Renogy batteries. I have their Solar Controller and was considering replacing my 464 Ah lead acid US Battery house bank with their Lithium batteries so I called their customer service. 

They confirmed that NONE of their LiPO4 batteries are ABYC or marine-rated and they do NOT warranty nor indemnify them for that use. 

If God forbid you had a runaway thermal condition or Battery Management System (BMS) failure which caused a catastrophic fire, and there was an investigation by the insurance company, they may disclaim coverage.

For what it's worth...

Michael Jabara

Hobbes II 1995 NS 354

San Rafael, California

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[RONALD WEBER]

Michael,

 

That is a very important point. 

Here is an article from Panbo addressing the recently adopted ABYC E-13 standards for Lithium batteries.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[RONALD WEBER]

Michael,

 

Having followed your lead I have examined your concerns as they may apply to my circumstance. It seems that E-13 encompasses not only battery specifications but also installation and following manufacturers' operating requirements. As such it is impractical for a battery manufacturer to certify their product according to ABYC E-13. One of the important aspects of E-13 recommendations is a "Battery Management System" which most Lithium batteries of this class have built in systems. In reference to Renogy batteries, they their COS perimeters are clearly stated. In addition they have a monitor which connects to the BMS and a Blue tooth adapter for sending a code warning to your cell phone.

 

So it seems the only remaining concern is insurance, this is the devil in the details. Obviously insurance companies have an interest in minimizing their risk and one tool commonly used is exclusions to your coverage. Only market pressure will force an insurance company to include certain risk factors in their policy, which means that until the majority of insurance carriers accept Lithium battery risks their standard response will be an exclusion. That amounts to an arbitrary and individual insurance carrier's position on this issue.

 

All that being said, I'm curious about the widespread use of Lithium batteries in trolling motor applications. I see that many Lithium battery manufacturers specifically promote their product for this application. How are fishermen dealing with this insurance conundrum? They are far more numerous than us humble sailors.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[RONALD WEBER]

P.S. to the insurance issue. We face many risks when we go upon the sea for recreation and there are no guarantees of our ultimate safety. So it comes down to each individual's risk assessment and their willingness to accept that risk.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[INA Nonsuch Discussion Group]

I just changed from four 200 Amp AGM batteries which I have used since 2008 when I converted my NS 30U to electric propulsion. This year I installed a single Allied 48 volt 105 amp Lithium Battery. It has a number of certifications including the UN/DOT 38.3. Some of the tests required for the battery to receive this certification is as follows:

 UN/DOT 38.3

T2 – Thermal Test (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries)
Test covers changes in temperature extremes from -40C to +75C. Batteries are stored for 6 hours at -40C (12 hours for large cells/batteries), then 6 hours at +75C (12 hours for large cells/batteries), for a total of 10 cycles.

T3 – Vibration (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries)
Test simulates vibration during transportation. Test is a Sine Sweep: 7Hz – 200Hz – 7Hz in 15 Minutes; 12 Sweeps (3 hours); 3 mutually perpendicular axes.

T4 – Shock (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries)
Test also simulates vibration during transportation. Test is a Half-Sine pulse: 150G/6ms for small cells/batteries; 50G/11ms for large cells/batteries; 3 pulses per direction; 6 directions (+/-z, +/-x, +/-y).

T5 – External Short Circuit (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries)
This test simulates an external short to the terminals of the cell or battery. At temperature of +55C, apply short circuit (<0.1ohm) across terminals. Maintain at least an hour after sample temperature returns to +55 +/-2°C. Pass criteria are: Case temperature does not exceed +170°C and no disassembly, rupture, or fire within 6 hours of test. Fuse, current limiting circuit, and venting mechanism activation are allowable.

T6 – Impact (Primary and Secondary Cells)
This test is only applicable to primary and secondary cells. For cylindrical cells >20mm diameter, it simulates impact to case of cell.

T7 – Overcharge (Secondary Batteries)
This test is for secondary or rechargeable batteries only. It simulates an overcharge condition on a rechargeable battery: 2x the manufacturer’s recommended charge current for 24 hours. Then battery shall be monitored for 7 days for fire or disassembly.

T8 – Forced Discharge (Primary and Secondary Cells)

This testing simulates a forced discharge condition for primary and secondary cells only. 

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

"Lithium batteries" is an umbrella term for several different types, all of which contain Lithium, but which differ in the other elements used in their chemistry.

Lithium IRON PHOSPHATE -- or maybe it's Potassium, I can never remember -- is abbreviated as LiFEPo4., is the newest type in contrast to the the better-known LiON batteries you see in laptops and the like.  LiFEpo4 is generally regarded as much more fire-safe than previous technologies.  I don't have it at my fingertips, but there's a link to a BOAAT/US article to that effect in the write-up on my installation that's in Members Tips and Projects on the www.Nonsuch.org webseite.

I explicitly informed my insurance company (Markel) that I was switching to electric, and described the configuration.  They raised my rates by $30 USD / year.  I never got a good explanation of the reason for that.  Maybe it was increased risk.  But, it could also have been for the value of the brand new installation, or simply because this gave them an excuse to raise it, or even (one can dream) the increased resale value of the boat.  In any case, insurance was not an issue.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[RONALD WEBER]

Hey Bob,

 

Thank you for that input. I am with Progressive so I hope they would be as accommodating. What I have been considering is only LIFEPo4 batteries. These batteries containing their own BMS are widely used in other applications such as golf carts and trolling motors as well as industrial equipment so I would think they have been thoroughly tested in the real world and the hazard of "run away" isn't widely considered as a serious hazard for these batteries.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Ron Weber]

So far it has been a real education and enlightening conversation. With the guidance of fellow Nonsuch owners I have ingested a wealth of information about electric propulsion in our vessels. Someone addressed the issue of enhanced resale with electric propulsion and my thoughts are that a new electric motor is far more reliable than a 35–40-year-old diesel which may have had questionable maintenance over it's lifetime. So when you decide to sell your beloved vessel you may have to educate a potential buyer. It's a technology still in it's infancy for marine applications but I think because of the current EV automotive market folks are being convinced of it's benefits. I just hope I don't get "rolling coaled" by some errant diesel boat owner.

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

[Brian M. Godfrey]

   About resale.  I don't know how other buyers would react, but I think a quality electric installation is worth a lot.
   When I was looking to buy a Nonsuch, I actually kind of hoped I'd run across a really nice one with a trashed engine so I could justify and afford to convert to electric.  My motivation was as much for the quiet running as for the lower maintenance and confidence that it will always start when I need it.  (As long as I keep it charged, which can also apply to keeping the fuel tank full.)
   Of course it's all hypothetical, but if I had found two comparable boats, one with diesel in good condition and one with a well done electric installation I would probably have paid a premium for the electric. 
   What actually happened is that I got a boat with a diesel that appears to be in good condition and which is entirely boxed in with sound deadening material.  It's still louder than electric, but is tolerable.  So I guess I'm probably stuck with it forever.

--Brian M. Godfrey
  Vela, NS33, San Diego
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

I recall one of the INA electric owners saying that he'd bought his sight unseen BECAUSE it was already electric.

However, I don't think we've got enough data to know impacts on resale value yet.  

My expectation is that there's a smaller pool of more enthusiastic buyers, but it's not clear yet what that means for how much one gets or how long it takes.

My hope is that this will be my estate executor's problem rather than mine.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[RONALD WEBER]

Well Bob, you and Brian have expressed some optimistic views but I do like your "don't sweat the small sh*t" approach.   ;- )

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Mike BIANKA]

The response I got from the insurance company back in 2007 when I told them I was going to change my Nonsuch to electric propulsion was "YOU"RE GOING TO DO WHAT?"  At least today insurance companies have gotten use to boats with electric propulsion. Though I think it a little outrageous they would raise you rates even $30.00. Especially since you've eliminated the liability of a fuel and oil spill by going electric.  Meanwhile in New Zealand an all electric commercial tugboat made it's debut last year. :

https://youtu.be/Rj305HdU46c?si=Y-WKwZgEBiAK4SZp

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Tim Cordes]

Here's an update on my progress with some pictures.

I painted the engine tunnel with two coats of Rustoleum enamel:

No more diesel smell, but a strong odor of enamel paint drying now.  In the lower photo you can see the 1x12 plank I used to bridge over the prop shaft and flange from the engine stringers.  It works really well and I have almost 2 inches clearance above the flange when I wriggle in and out.  

Cut and shaped a 3/4" Birch plywood battery shelf for starboard to match the port shelf.  This will be coated with epoxy, tabbed to the hull with chopped strand mat and 8" wide 8 oz. fiberglass cloth tape, and supported inboard with 2X2 cleats underneath.  It also slopes slightly inboard for drainage.

  
I decided to put buss bars to connect the port and starboard batteries on the starboard plate glassed to the transom that previously supported the strap clamp holding the exhaust hose in place.  I'll need to add the negative engine cable to the top buss bar, and add the negative and positive wires from the battery charger to the top and bottom bus bars, but I will still have a couple lugs free on each if I add more batteries later.  In the middle is the 250A fuse for the positive motor lead.  (I'm really annoyed that I ran out of red heat shrink for the starboard battery lug lower left.) 

I ran the 2/0 ga cables across the transom by attaching wire clamps to the ends of the transom ladder bolts with new 1/4x20 stainless nylock nuts, and added two final wire clamps to the port plate glassed to the transom that supports the strap clamp holding the bilge pump hose.

QUESTION FOR BOB AND TIM:  Since you both did the Electric Yacht install, did you just use 12 ga wire from the  Delta Q IC1200 charger?  The length of my proposed wire run will just be the length of the starboard laz from the bulkhead to the transom, so about 6 feet, but I don't know the amperage it puts out.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:56:15 PM UTC-4 Tim Cordes wrote:

That looks great, Tim.

I was planning on putting my batteries as far aft as possible to have my cockpit scuppers drain better.  I'm using two 48v96AH Dakota LiFEPo batteries at 71 pounds each, and with the Electric Yacht QT 10 weighing in at 77 lbs, I thought that moving weight aft would offset the removal of my 290 lb Westerbeke 13a diesel.  I have a little shelf in the port laz that I guess used to hold a refrigerator compressor, and the cardboard mock-up of the battery fits nicely.  I'll have to tab in a similar shelf to starboard, but I thought that I would drill a 2-inch hole in the aft rudder post support to run the wires through from port to starboard.   Does all that seem reasonable?

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 12:30:00 PM UTC-4 Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn wrote:

Here is a photo showing the PEX coming out at the bottom of the pedestal.  We used the two holes that the control cables had used.

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:38:01 AM UTC-5 Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn wrote:

Tim, Chafe was a big concern of mine.  We used two 1/4" PEX tubing fed from below up through the pedestal.  The hardest part was removing the old control cables. Lots of "magic" words were used.  You can just barley see the PEX sticking out and tied off to one side with a zip tie.  We led the tubing toward the forward bulkhead in gentle curves.  I'll try to find a photo of that.

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-5 Tim Cordes wrote:

I just spent my first weekend on my conversion project.  The motor was a removed for me by a mechanic last week, and I spent Saturday and Sunday cleaning the engine room.  My engine room was exceptionally dirty, because the reason I decided to convert was serious leaking around the exhaust elbows.   There was so much soot in there that it looked like the entire tunnel had been evenly sprayed with vanta black paint.

Tim - I am interested in your approach of running the Electric Yacht control cables up the pedestal.  I plan on removing the old shifter and throttle levers and shafts, and passing the control cables through one of the empty holes.  My concern is chafe from the steering cables, so I was thinking of bundling the control wires in either wire loom or a PVC pipe inside the pedestal.  I've got to open the pedestal anyway to replace the wheel brake and refill the compass.  Do you think a pipe/loom solution is a good idea, or will everything just stay out the way on its own?  How did you do yours?

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

TIm, I used 10ga because that is what I had and bigger never hurts.  They did not have the Delta Q IC1200 charger when I bought so they substituted the Quiq 1500 charger.  Be careful on where and how you install the charger, our Quiq 1500 has indicator lights that tell you the state of charge and the charging status, had I installed this in a different location I would be able to view those lights without having to hang down into the lazarette.  I don't know if the Delta Q has lights like that or not.

Your install is looking good so far, congrats.

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Tim,

Both of you Tims with your shiny white repaints are making me hang my head in shame.  My engine compartment started out looking like an engine compartment, and still does.  You guys' repaints make it look like you could eat off your floors.

It looks like you're doing a beautiful, and extremely well-thought-out, job.

I do have a DeltaQ and used whatever size wire they spec'ed.  I don't have it in front of me, but if you say they spec'ed 12 gauge, then that's what I used.  It looked tiny compared to the 2/0 used elsewhere, and I'm still wrapping my head around the idea that this scrawny-looking wire will do the job.    My installation had a very short run, though, so I'd lean toward upsizing if you're worried about it.  It certainly does no harm.

The layout of Classic and Ultra are a bit different, so what I did for the charger may not work for you.  I put it on the port bulkhead just inside the engine compartment as accessed from the interior.  On the Ultra, that places it higher than you can do on a Classic because that's the exterior of the aft of the refrigerator compartment rather than there being a quarterberth in the cabin.   My Classic had cut-throughs on both sides of the engine compartment so that you (or at least maybe some child of Gumby's) could (in theory) "access" various Westerbeke fittings.

I do agree with Tim in STL that you'll really want to place the charger somewhere that makes it easy to check its status lights.  My recollection of where I had my house battery charger on my first 26 (which was a Classic), was that it was about where you're planning to put your 48v charger.  I could read its display sort of ok by leaning deep in through the starboard locker from the cockpit.  When I needed to check it, I usually ended up having to hold my phone camera down there to take a picture and then looking at the picture. 

I don't have a brilliant suggestion off the top of my head for where would be best on a Classic because I'd need to look at one to refresh my memory.   Maybe there's enough room forward of the quarterberth access panels?  Otherwise, I doubt you can do better than where you've already chosen to put it.

Small side issue: it looks in your picture like the now-unnecessary engine raw water intake at the front of your compartment has a gate valve rather than a ball valve for shutting it off.  I don't have bragging rights on this topic, because all I did was wiring my ball valve lever in the closed position and put a plug above it as a second level defense.  But, gate valves don't have great reputations, so I hope you're taking lots of precautions to ensure that through-hull is really well protected against water coming through.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Tim Cordes]

Bob,

The new paint is nice, and it has eliminated any diesel smell, but it really highlights all the leaves that come in the laz when I open them to work below.  Oh well, the tree next door is almost bare now.

I don't love the gate valve either, but I don't want to buy a new through hull fitting when I'm not sure if I will ever use it for anything.  Being on the cradle right now, It's no big deal, but I will have to figure out a way to have a trustworthy cap on it before I do sea trials.  I also need a solution for the exhaust port.  It seems like there is 5200 on the fitting, and I can't budge the hose stub off the end.  I might just cut the whole thing off with an angle grinder.  I was thinking of just covering the hole from the outside with a disk of stainless (Amazon sells precut disks of 304) and then using a lot of Bed-It butyl tape.  It's above the waterline, but will probably get submerged in following seas.  I don't think it would be worth glassing and gelcoating to try to match the transom finish - even if I felt like I had the skills, which I don't.  Maybe I could just cut a circle out of G10 and epoxy it over the hole.

Bob - You're right that my 12v charger is on the aft side of the buklhead at the end of the starboard quarter berth.  That's where the 120v shore power line leads to, and I thought I'd just put a waterproof junction box and tie the shore power and both chargers together there.  Going to Tim's point, though, that means I will only see the display if I stick my head down the laz or use the cell phone camera trick.  (Heck, I use that all the time just so I can magnify small print on things that are out in the open)  I have space on the bulkhead outboard of the laz opening so the cooling fan will be less likely to get rained on, but it is tempting to move it forward into a more protected and accessible location in the engine bay as Tim suggested.

Tim - I wish I had "extra" spools of 10 ga just lying around, but I only have 12 ga.  With the conversion costs mounting, I think I might just go with 12 ga, unless I do move the charger forward.  That would probably justify spending more money for the 10 ga wire since it would be a longer run.

I decided to cut the ends of the controller cables and run them up through the pedestal, like Tim, so I'll have to crimp on all new connectors and get my fat fingers into that tiny box, but they came up pretty easily when they were taped to the old throttle and shifter cables.  It does make for a neat install on deck.  I want to see if I can find a rubber grommet that will fit the old throttle lever hole so I can make it a bit more watertight.  

I wimped out on changing the steering cables.  I looked at them very closely and they seem to be in really good shape - plus the eye bolt is currently a swage fitting and I didn't think I could be as neat making new ones up with the saddle clamps in the kit.  Tim - you and I both will have to sweat it out over "invisible stress cracks" for the foreseeable future.  I'll let you know how the emergency tiller works if I guessed wrong.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"

Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[BRIAN CAYER]

Tim C

We have a golf cart that seemed to inexplicably drive up into our yard when it was most needed.

It was what we could afford at the time, and a blessing as well.

It came with the original 48v charger .

We charge it with an 15’ extension cord, 12ga most likely, maybe less.

It works as expected.

No Worries!

Brian

Brian Cayer

SV Spirit~Wind N30U 419

Deep River, CT

On Oct 9, 2023, at 4:25 PM, Tim Cordes <timc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob,

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[Jim Johnston, 1985 NS30U "Minou", Ottawa]

Hi Ron,

My Minou (NS30) was converted in 2019 to electric in a boat yard on Georgian Bay when I was seeing a variety of small issues with the Westerbeke becoming big ones. The motor that was installed on the recommendation of a dealer in Nova Scotia is a 14kw Lynch Motor Company from the UK and batteries 2x3500W Lithium XXX 48 V torquedoes.  I believe there may be a connection between the LMC and the Thoosa origins.

What I didn't learn until later was that my electric motor is not happy with a folding or feathering prop, so this spring I installed a fixed Michigan 'sailor' prop and performance results are much better. With the folding/feathering prop reverse would just not work and the motor would stall.  I was told that this is a problem common to all electric motors, but I haven't confirmed that. If anyone is interested I have both an old Autoprop and a Kiwi feathering prop for sale.

A dockside test where I let the motor run until the batteries were depleted (about 2&1/2 hours) suggested a range of 14-15NM @ 4.1kts.  A slower speed would give me further range. I used to carry a honda generator just in case but that was sold as I gained confidence.

We got struck by lightning in 2020 and everything was replaced (thank you insurance) at a second boat yard, so between that and covid I have really only starting using the electric configuration this summer. And I love it: quiet, clean, easy to maintain. I had some issues at the start of the summer and the team in England walked me through servicing over the phone.

If I was doing it again, I would consider the torqeedo battery and sail-drive unit as an alternative but other manufacturers in the market look to offer excellent products which I think are only going to become better and more widely used in future.

Good luck.

On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 9:26:19 PM UTC-4 Ron Weber wrote:

I would greatly appreciate input from members who have already completed a conversion or even contemplating the move. I am seeking opinions of the system you chose and the reasons why and are you happy with the result. It looks like near home sailing will be our foreseeable future so I am not that concerned about extended range. We have to motor for about 1/2 hour at 4-5 knots to get to open water depending on the tide state.

I am excited about the prospect of electric and look forward to hearing from those who have already done the work. 

Thank you,

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

TIm,

Re the gate valve,  a good plug is probably good enough.  

Re the exhaust thru-hull:  all I did was leave it there with enough hose on the interior side to raise it well above the water line.  Then, like the raw water intake, I put a plug in it.  Here's a fuzzy picture:

As this illustrates, I'm a "good enough is good enough," kinda guy.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Bill M]

It might be a little late but there is a YouTube channel called "Sailing Uma" that just posted video #367 about converting to electric propulsion. They make a lot of good points based on their experience with their electric motor.

Bill Mortensen

NSU 30 #335

Noank, CT

[RONALD WEBER]

Bill,

 

That is the benchmark amongst the Youtube sailing related videos. One key point they made was that they started on a shoe string budget by locating a boat that had no functioning engine - along with other problems. They cobbled together an electric propulsion system which I believed was based on a golf cart motor, and later were gifted a new system from Ocean Volt. Their ingenuity and willingness to do their own research and labor should be an inspiration to all of us sailors. I think an important message is that this couple with a vision of the future chose the arena of sailing to pursue that vision.  

 

I am in the process of converting my N22 to electric, and was so happy to remove all those diesel things from my boat. Maybe I should put it in a big pile and take a picture for my scrap book alongside other memories from my sailing past like RDF navigation. With the elimination of Loran and paper charts by the government and the constant evolution of sailing electronics it's with a deep gratitude that we now have better options for propulsion systems. It's been a long while since diesel replaced galley slaves and steam and I welcome the future.

 

To the nay sayers that always emphasize range limits I remind you that our vessels are sailboats that were designed primarily for wind power. Mine will be a hybrid using both wind and electric.

 

I just started installation today of the new system and will post on the INA group as I make progress.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Ken Dakin]

Very Nice video series 

Go right to 4 minute mark for the “real start”

Helen Dakin

N33 #7 Sashay

Collins bay in kingston Ontario 

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 27, 2023, at 9:43 PM, Bill M <wmorten...@gmail.com> wrote:

It might be a little late but there is a YouTube channel called "Sailing Uma" that just posted video #367 about converting to electric propulsion. They make a lot of good points based on their experience with their electric motor.

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[JohnS]

Hi Ron - First, no problem with going electric from me. Just a pat on the back for figuring out your usage requirements and shutting out the noise.

Sailing Uma started with a forklift motor, and went from there. The guy grew up somewhere in BC, and obviously learnt how to "bodge" (in a good way) when a kid, as he problem solves well. Kudos to them. One of their first videos, they stated that if they had to anchor and wait out tides, no problem, they are in no rush.

I've got an electric outboard (an E-Propulsion unit) that we love - quiet, comes apart for ease of moving and storage, no gas to worry about. It does take overnight 110v plugging-in to recharge, so when we are away from shore-power for a while, I do envy (sometimes) those who "recharge" their outboards in about 10 seconds from the gas-can.

I think that the power/weight of lithium vs. diesel fuel is something like 40:1, which is a huge reason why we'll not be seeing an electric Boeing 777 soon, and why some boats will remain diesel. 

I think we all forget that the Pardys sailed the world without an engine, Donald Street, of the Transatlantic guides, sailed the world without an engine, and even the International 14 that I had decades ago did not have an engine. 

Please keep telling us how it goes.  - John NS26C 046 Bath ON.

[Tim Cordes]

Latest updates:

Glassed in port battery shelf  

Cut off exhaust stub with angle grinder and laid in 4 layers of fiberglass and epoxy

Installed aft and outboard battery cleats and batteries

Wired 48v charger to buss bars

Wired new 30A breaker from shore power to 12v and 48v battery chargers 

Installed 48v charger and current sensor

After this, all I have to do is install the QT10 motor mounts, align the prop shaft coupler, crimp new ring terminals on the cockpit control cables, and install the controller lever and display.  I'm hoping I can do all that next weekend, so I can shut up the boat and have it shrinkwrapped until sea trials next spring.  It's starting to get kind of chilly in the boatyard.  I picked the last day in the low 60s to do my fiberglass work, but now it rarely gets over 50 at the boat all day. 

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"

Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Looking good, Tim!

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Tom Schoenhofer 26C#28 North Star Penetanguishene]

Interesting Tim.  This engine compartment looks exactly like my C26#28 except for the soot. Cant wait to see photos of the QT 10 install.   I'm wondering how it will get bolted to the angle iron engine beds. It looks like you removed or sawed off three of the original bolts. Were these bolts welded onto that angle iron?

Tom

[Tim Cordes]

Hi Tom

I had a local mechanic do the removal of the W13a diesel, and he sawed off all the bolts save the one that is still sticking up.  The bolts coming up through the angle iron might be welded, but I suspect they are hanger bolts lagged into the plywood engine stringers underneath.  I plan to drill new holes through with a corded half-inch drill, and use the lag bolts that came with the motor mounts from Electric Yacht.  We'll see if that works this weekend.  I'll cut off the last bolt with an angle grinder if it is in the way, otherwise I might just leave it.

The last remaining bolt has actually been pretty handy up to this point as a stop to keep my planking from sliding around.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Brings back a happy memory from my experience...

Yours looks well on its way to a very nice installation, Tim.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[RONALD WEBER]

Removing all that old iron and associated gear, parts, and fluids sure put a smile on my face. Hard to believe how much stuff I had to carry to support that smoker.

I have begun my installation and hope to be completed by Thanksgiving. I also decided to go with Electric Yacht for my installation. It may not have been the least expensive but made it easy enough for me to do the work myself. I really didn't want a yearlong project at this point. So far everything is falling into place quite nicely. I will provide pictures upon completion and open to any technical questions from prospective converts.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl. 

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[Mike BIANKA]

Tim

Nice install. FYI make sure you don't try to charge the Lithium battery if it's temperature is 32 degrees Fahrenheit or below over the winter. You could destroy the Lithium battery $$$. Best to wait for spring and warmer temperatures. Luckily the Lithium does not self discharge like Lead acid/ AGM does over the winter. I've already disconnected my solar charger and will disconnect the remaining battery wires when I get back from Key West and connect them back up in the spring..

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Tim Cordes]

Thanks for the tip, Mike.  I charged both batteries up at home prior to installing them in the boat in my warm kitchen using the Dakota chargers that were included with the purchase of each battery.  My concern now is actually the other way - I have read that it is not advisable to keep the LiFePo batteries at full charge for long-term storage.  I will be running them down a little bit when I connect the motor for testing in the cradle this weekend (hopefully), but I don't think that I will be able to drain them to the 50%-75% charge that I have heard about.  I will be shutting the boat up and shrink wrapping it after this weekend, since it is getting too cold to work in the boatyard and we had a little bit of snow already on Halloween night.  I'll try and spin the motor a little extra, but with no water resistance on the prop, I will probably still be storing them overwinter at 90%+ capacity.  I don't have solar or shore power at the boatyard, so the batteries won't get any additional charging before Spring launch and sea trials. 

Referencing back to the earlier post with the video from "Sailing Uma" (whom I have followed regularly for years) they said that the number of charge cycles specified for LiFePo batteries will last them more than a decade, so maybe if I shorten the life of the batteries a little bit by keeping them charged in excess of recommendations, they will still outlive me.  Fingers crossed.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Tim,

The one thing I'd like to add as a caution is to be careful and gentle in the final stages of installation.

I've been trying to figure out how to phrase a balanced message. 

I'm overall very happy with ElectricYacht, both product and service.  And, I'm very happy with my conversion.  I like that other people are doing it.  It's not for everyone, but it's a very good choice for some of us. 

However, I don't want to give the impression that it's 100% unicorns and rainbows.  In the course of my installation, I noticed that it was very easy to strip threads on the posts if you overtorque while hooking up cables to the motor.  

I had to remove and replace the controller because the original I received was defective.  (Again, let me emphasize, excellent service from ElectricYacht.  Their president spent literally two and a half hours on the phone with me walking through debugging it before concluding it was defective, the replacement was sent that day, and it arrived FedEx as soon as possible.)  

I also had to change the gearing -- my fault, that one, because I didn't have good data on my propeller when I ordered and guessed incorrectly.  That led me to have to open up the motor even further than replacing the controller had. 

In the course of doing these things, I did notice that there are a lot of places where stainless steel screws are going into aluminum housings.  I don't expect this to be a problem in normal usage. There may be some long term risk of corrosion, but I think that my engine compartment is far less conducive to that now that there's no longer multiple potential trouble spots like water and exhaust hoses.  

My primary point is not to critique their choices of material.  It's just to point out that, because of the difference in hardness of the materials, it's another reminder to be careful about overtorquing. 

I'm one of those guys whose go-to solution approach is brute force.  That's not the winning strategy here.  

If anyone regards any of the above as discouragement for doing a conversion, let me offer an alternative interpretation: if I could do it, then it really can't be that hard.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 326U #233

[RONALD WEBER]

Bob,

 

Nice summation and good points made. I have been approaching mine with "measure 5 times cut once" mind set. So far it hasn't proven to be any more difficult than other boat projects that I've completed. The biggest challenge for me was the necessary learning curve that I felt would guide me to good decisions. So far that time has proven to be well spent making my choices easier. Of course it's not done till it's done and when that prop turns in the right direction and nothing goes up in smoke I will smile and have a double shot of Pyrat rum. I will add the comment that for us amateurs the Electric Yacht kit is a very good starting point. A lot of folks built their own battery bank, but I liked the ready built batteries with integrated BMS. A little more money but I like that they are designed and tested as a compatible unit each with its own BMS, as well as any potential warranty issues. My battery installation is all planned and just waiting for wiring, so it's looking good to complete by Thanksgiving.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Tim -

Can you not connect a light bulb to the batteries and just let it slowly run the batteries down, even if you are not there ?? Once the boat is shrink wrapped, you'll still be able to get aboard through some kind of port or door, right ? We (barely) missed snowflakes on halloween ( but, boy oh boy, was it ever chilly).

Otherwise, good on you, sir, for going electric. 

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Oh ..... almost forgot ..... in the words of the venerable Mike Quill " A product called Tefgel allows you to mix different metals without creating corrosion."

It's very good stuff.  https://www.tefgel.com/#

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Tim Cordes]

Thanks Bob.  I am a little worried about being appropriately gentle.  I took the motor out of it's shipping box when I got it and left it in the back of my pickup truck for more than a month (I have a cap and a rubber floor mat).  When my cousin and I finally lifted it aboard, it appeared that the mounting bolts had loosened a bit, and the belt was quite loose on the shaft gear.  Turning it rightside up seemed to make everything fall into place, but I will need to re-tighten some of the mounting bolts.  I also foolishly laid the motor on its side in my truck and there was some considerable chafe on the cable bundle coming out the rear of the motor.  I think it is just superficial, and I wrapped the chafed area solidly with electrical tape, but I would recommend to anyone else considering Electric Yacht to leave the motor in the shipping carton until ready for installation.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Tim Cordes]

Interesting idea, Ernie.  I don't have a 48v inverter, and I don't have any lamps that are specifically rated for 48v, but I might be able to gen something up that would deplete the batteries a bit.  Nice job "thinking outside the box"!

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 3:45:06 PM UTC-4 Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches" wrote:

[Tim Cordes]

Ron - I found the wiring design to be the real wild card.  When you have essentially a blank canvas to start with, even simple decisions like "where to I put the main 48v switch?" can cause analysis paralysis.  For me, two full weekends were used up cleaning the soot out of my engine room, and one more was spent putting on 2 coats of enamel paint, but every night I was using MS Paint to lay out and think about where I would put my wire runs.  I paid special attention to trying to get the positive and negative cables close to one another to avoid EMF problems, but up until I screwed it in I was back and forth about the location of the 48v charger.  In the end, I was pretty satisfied with my decisions, but I could have gone any number of different ways with it.  In a parallel universe I probably came up with the ultimate layout, but I think the way I went will do OK.  I posted a lot of pictures so other folks can learn from the experience I had, just like I learned a lot reviewing the excellent write-up that Bob Neches did for his install.  Tim's installation on White O'morn convinced me that I wanted a pretty, freshly painted engine room - especially after the sooty nasty mess that the old leaky diesel left behind.  And Mike's great Bianka blog was pivotal to me believing that an electric conversion would fit my sailing style.

Not to get mawkish about it, but this discussion board really allowed me to "stand on the shoulders of giants" and any little bit I can give back with my random snapshots of my own install makes me feel good.  Best of luck with your conversion Ron, and I look forward to seeing your additions to the body of knowledge that is being amassed here.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Thanks for the kind words, Tim. 

I spent a lot of time with MS-Powerpoint playing with my wiring runs, then made some changes during installation (no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy).  In addition to the concerns you mentioned, one other worth mentioning might be keeping things accessible when needed but protected the rest of the time.

I was just re-reading Jorgen Moller's article in the Spring/Summer 2015 INA Update (V6, #11, pp. 4-7, downloadable from www.Nonsuch.org) about his 2011 conversion of Pondus, and realizing that the links in it were key to the start of my educational process.  So let's add him (while giving MIke another back-pat, since Jorgen cites him as an inspiration), to the list of people we e-boaters want to acknowledge.

This is my 50th year of sailing and I'm now on my seventh boat, so I feel I've got a good data set upon which to base my conclusion that the Nonsuch crowd is the best and most helpful owners group you can find.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Ward Woodruff]

Put 4 -12Volt light bulbs in series on 48 Volt system.  A 120v incandescent light bulb will work. 

Another way would be to connect a 120v heating element. It will work at less than 1/2 output. 

Ward Woodruff

N33 #8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

On Nov 2, 2023, at 11:00 PM, Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233) <rtne...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Ward and Tim -

I was going to suggest that but then I wondered, because the batteries put out DC voltage, would that be a problem ?? I dunno ....

Initially, I was going to suggest this:

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mike BIANKA]

Tim

I'm currently in Key West about to head back and have BIANKA pulled for the winter. My battery is currently at 93% capacity. I went with an Allied 48 volt 105 amp hour Lithium battery to replace the four 8A4D AGM lead acid batteries.

https://alliedlithium.com/products/allied-commercial-48v-lithium-batteries-golf-and-utv

Here is what their website says about long term storage of their Lithium batteries:

"  Allied batteries are great for long term storage.

To store correctly: fully charge the battery, unplug charger, flip the golf cart switch to tow mode and press the power button on the side of the Allied Battery. 
Great for long winters or snow birds leaving for months."

Not sure if it would be the same for your Dakota battery but a check with the manufacturer should get you the correct procedure.  

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Tim Cordes]

Hi Mike

Thanks for your post.  I re-read the Dakota LiFePO4 battery literature, and then downloaded an additional user manual from their website.  Aside from teh usual warnings about not actively charging the batteries cold, they seem to recommend full charge for storage:

"LiFePO4 batteries have a low self-discharge rate of 3 – 5% per month, so they can be left in a partially discharged state for over a year without damaging the battery. This is 5X less than the self-discharge rate of VRLA batteries, but it is higher than some other lithium based systems.

L.F.P. batteries should be stored well charged at a temperature between 40 – 95°F, however, they need to be above 32°F to charge. We recommend charging your lithium batteries every two months to ensure they do not completely drain" 

While this statement isn't as crystal clear as the Allied Battery text  "Great for long winters or snow birds leaving for months", I think I'll be OK overwintering with a full charge.  I can't even remember where I read about the "50% capacity for storage" because I have been researching this electric conversion idea for so long. 

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Tim Cordes]

Only a couple pictures this week, but boy am I sore.  I spent five hours laying in the engine tunnel getting the motor mounts installed yesterday.  I thought that leaving the mild steel L-brackets on top of the engine stringers would make for a more secure install, so I had to drill eight 3/8" clearance holes through the steel for the motor mount feet lag bolts.  Using copious amounts of motor oil for lubrication, and trying to use as low speed as possible with my 1/2 corded drill, it still took all afternoon to get them drilled and bolted down.  In retrospect, either removing the L-brackets and using a drill press, or just taking them out altogether might have been a better option.

I used Bob's idea of screwing on wooden handles to the side flanges to make it easier for my cousin and I to move the engine in and out to check alignment:

It took three tries before we were able to mark the locations for the lag bolts in the mounting feet, because we started with side flanges at the lowest set of bolt holes, which on my engine stringers put the coupler about 3 5/8" too high.  We moved the flanges up to the second highest set of holes and were able to get good alignment with the couplers by raising the aft nuts almost to the top of the mounting foot bolts.  We also adjusted the angle of the flanges by loosening the lower flange bolt and swinging the entire motor a bit using the semi-circular lower bolt slot.  I had a .004" feeler gauge as recommended, but after a couple of adjustments we went from almost a 1/8" gap at the bottom of the coupler to fully flush with no discernable gap at all.

Since there is very little room for adjustment forward and aft on the slots in the side flange, I was very concerned about getting the prop shaft at the right position in that orientation.  I found that adding four zip ties to the shaft between one of my shaft anodes and the cutless bearing strut kept my shaft in the right position based on the smooth patches on the shaft that had no marine growth because they were inside the cutless bearing.  Fortunately, there seemed to be almost no play up or down or side to side at the stuffing box end, so I feel relatively confident that the flax packing won't leak any more than it has in the past.  I won't really know about that or any vibration until I launch for sea trials in the Spring.

Since I am too portly to fit up through the lazarette, we had to remove the motor after our final test fit so I could get out of the engine tunnel.  I will have to bolt the couplers together through the starboard berth access opening I cut last year, but I think that should work.  Both my cousin and I were absolutely beat after drilling and bolting in the mounting feet, and it was getting pretty dark and cold, so we didn't get everything connected to test the motor yesterday, and I think I need today as a recovery day for my back and shoulders.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Mike BIANKA]

Tim

I think the 50-60% charge state over the winter was dependent on the type of Lithium chemistry the battery used. Maybe the Allied and Dakota's use the newer type chemistry. This will be my first winter with the Allied Lithium battery. I will need to charge to 100% before I pull the boat for the winter. Temperatures in my area should be warm enough for a month or two to do so. One of the things with the Allied battery that I really like is it has a bluetooth app. In addition to charge data the phone app shows the voltage of each individual cells and most important it has three sensors that monitor battery temperature. So I should be able to do an occasional charge over the winter if the battery temperature shows it won't harm the battery and if it really needs a charge.  It will be interesting to see how things go over this first winter.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[JohnS]

 Tim - watch out for marketing fluff. 

VRLA AGM batteries discharge at about 3% per month. Last year, charged, then immediately disconnected AGM batteries survived the October to May Canadian Season, with the Victron monitor showing over 96% charge still when re-connected in the spring. I expect the same (or close) next spring.

So, the Dakota battery statement should read "0X" rather than "5X",  or even "-0.5%" .

Marketing - great if you are in the business of selling, not so great if you are on the receiving end!

If their marketing was correct, then I'd have had to replace my AGM batteries last spring. They worked just fine. ;-)

(this is NOT to take away from what you, or any of our Nonsuch group are doing with regards to 

batteries, and propulsion or sails, or... - it's all great, interesting stuff and keep posting your progress)

JohnS NS26C 046 tucked away for the winter in Bath, ON.

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Tim,

I'm very sympathetic to your comment:

On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 8:41:49 AM UTC-8 timc...@gmail.com wrote:

Only a couple pictures this week, but boy am I sore...  and I think I need today as a recovery day for my back and shoulders.

I've got back problems, so I -- very literally -- feel your pain.  

My conversion schedule slipped several months and went several thousand dollars over budget because of them.

My problems were pre-existing, but the project certainly wasn't therapeutic for them.   

I now strongly urge everyone who's working on boat projects to do find out what the proper stretching and strengthening exercises are for the areas that seem most prone to hurt.  Stop at regular intervals and do those stretches.  (I learned this from a nephew who works as mechanic on trains;  it turns out his employer doesn't just suggest this to their employees -- they require it.)

Pain is very highly overrated as a source of pleasure.  Suffering for the greater good is heroic.  Suffering unnecessarily is best left to professional athletes (who are highly paid to do it) and Youtube/Tiktok celebrities (who seem to be begging for it).

None of this is intended to imply that doing the conversion is particularly risky.  It's like using a power saw -- if you insist on putting your hands near the blade, it's risky.  If you don't, less so.

As a matter of fact, having  back problems was a significant factor my conversion decision.  I thought about how much time I could expect to spend in the engine compartment with my diesel vs. with an electric.  The ultimate reduction in maintenance time afforded by switching over was part of the decision.  

 At the current pace, I'll have put 50 hours of use on my new system by the end of its first year.  The next major recommended maintenance for it is to add grease through an easily accessible zerk fitting -- when it reaches 500 hours.   

I'm conservative enough that I'll certainly be checking more frequently than every ten years.  But I like the idea (or, at least, the hope) that my trips into the engine compartment will be when I feel like it rather than when my diesel's decided to demand TLC.

[RONALD WEBER]

Bob and Tim - I hear you loud and clear. Being 77 years young, I find working in the engine room is no picnic. Like you, I am really looking forward to the promise of giving up all that maintenance. It is one thing I never imagined would stand in the way of my sailing. I am hoping that the electric propulsion will extend my sailing days. My wife loves the boat and stood in the way of me selling it so this conversion may hold the key to "a happy wife makes a happy life".

 

Chin up and keep going Tim the pain won't last forever.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time 

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

You go, Ron (and Mrs. Ron, too)!

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Actually, Ron ...... I'd imagine that Mrs. Ron is in far better shape than you (because that's always the way, isn't it ..... ). As she loves the boat (which is always good), perhaps you should suggest HER presence in "Schubert's Unfinished Basement" to get some of that nasty stuff done. Not all of it but .......

Another great idea from the fertile mind of:

Ernie A. in Toronto

[RONALD WEBER]

Brilliant plan Ernie, but I avoided the problem altogether by moving here to Florida where we have no basements.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magis Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Of course, I meant the basement under your cockpit. THAT has been my basement as I have had no engine to befoul the surroundings. My (former) boat is an outboard version.

Ernie A. in Toronto (where buildings must have basements)

[Tom Schoenhofer 26C#28 North Star Penetanguishene]

Sorry to burst you bubble Tim but  " I had a .004" feeler gauge as recommended, but after a couple of adjustments we went from almost a 1/8" gap at the bottom of the coupler to fully flush with no discernable gap at all"   is a little early.

The builder recommends you align the engine while the boat is in the water preferably a few days after it goes in because the stands don't support the hull the same way water does. It's nice to start with a fully flush coupler but you have to check it again after splash.

Tom

26C #28

[Tim Cordes]

Thanks for pointing that out Tom.  I hadn't thought about that, but it is obvious when I consider  how I experienced hull deformation on my prior boats.  I had an Endeavour 37 where the head and stateroom doors refused to close on the jackstands, but they were both absolutely fine when I was in the slip.  I'll back off the coupler bolts a few turns when I launch in the Spring and remeasure with the feeler gauge. 

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 "ENCORE"
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Tim Cordes]

Final connections and first test.  There is still a lot of wiring spaghetti in the engine room, so next spring I will need to install a bunch more cable clamps.  I'll also need to sort out the 12v system now that the cables can no longer ground through the engine block. 

After a successful test of forward and reverse, I dropped the boom for the winter, and called the shrink wrap company.

Now I just have to wait until spring for sea trials.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch e26C #32 "ENCORE"

Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Jim Johnston]

Congratulations on a job well done.

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[Mike BIANKA]

Tim

Make sure you keep your motor/battery monitoring display covered when not in use. I had an XBM battery display go bad because it saw to much sun.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Nice job, Tim. Clean and neat as a pin.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Tim Cordes]

Hi Mike,

I was concerned about that as well.  Turns out that even with the additional bulk of the display and controller, my Sunbrella pedestal cover still fits pretty well.  It rides a bit higher, so the bottom 8" or so of the pedestal is uncovered, but it still fits over the chartplotter and new controls.  Maybe next year I will sew up a new cover that fits more elegantly, but till then, my current one will keep the display out of the UV rays.  I remover my wheel every time after I'm done sailing, so the pedestal cover is essentially a long cylinder in shape, so it shouldn't be too hard to remake with a skosh more room.

The bigger problem is that I reached out to grab the guardrail through the cover for balance and wound up bending the display support bracket a little bit.  It bent back pretty easily with no obvious lasting harm, but I will have to remember that I have to be more careful where I grab now when everything is covered up.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch e26C #32 "ENCORE"

Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Tim,

I had a similar grab and bend experience, and ended up building an extra guardrail around the controls.  Still a bit of a work in progress, as you can see from the lashings.  This picture makes it look like the right vertical support is somehow attached to the throttle box, but it actually runs forward of it.

I've found it extremely handy in moving about the cockpit, in addition to protecting the controls.  Now that I have it, I'd want it even if I didn't need it to protect anything.

This created problems for my pedestal cover, but I'm planning to replace that soon anyway (I'm looking at the Sailrite cover packages (https://www.sailrite.com/Sail-and-Canvas-Kits/Sail-and-Canvas-Covers/Wheel-Covers), which seem pretty reasonable.

[RONALD WEBER]

Two questions for Bob and/or Tim:

1. If you are using multiple batteries in parallel did you route positive from the first battery and negative from the last battery to balance the load? I've read this to be the proper way to get even distribution of battery charge and discharge but it wasn't included in the recommendation if that also applies to Lithium batteries with built in BMS. 

2. When doing the configuring if I set the power to 50% will that limit the input to 5KW? What setting did you use? If I don't plan to use regeneration should I just set that value to "0"? What is the physical effect of various regeneration settings?

 

Finishing up my installation today or tomorrow and then the appropriate testing to first be done tied in the slip. I plan to operate at different power levels for a specific time period to gauge available run time. I am using four 48volt 50AH LifePo4 with built in BMS. I am speculating 2-4 hours to 20% SOC at a power setting of 3-4KW which should provide 4knts to 4.5knts. 

 

Guess I better take some "before the fire" pictures which I will share.

 

Really excited about this whole thing and working in the engine room sure is a lot cleaner. It should be nice to not constantly check cooling water flow, oil pressure, engine temperature, alternator output, and visually inspecting for leaks and broken stuff. We shall see.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Ron,

I sent you the contact info directly for the best guy at ElectricYacht to ask these questions. 

I did my batteries as you describe, drawing positive from the first and negative from the last.  But my batteries didn't have their own BMS's and I don't know whether that complicates things or doesn't matter.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Tim Cordes]

Hi Ron,

I spent a fair bit of time thinking about this myself.  If my batteries had been adjacent, I probably would have gone that way, but since I wound up placing them outboard to port and starboard, it was difficult to think of a way to do that easily.  In the end, I connected both negatives to a buss bar and both positives to another buss bar, and then ran the positive and negative lead of the charger to its respective buss bar mounted on the transom.

In the picture below, you can see the negative buss bar top (yellow cables) then the 250A fuse below that, and finally the positive buss bar on the bottom.  The 10GA black and red cables coming in from the left of the picture go from the 48v charger to the top and bottom buss bars.  Since in a parallel wiring configuration both batteries would have their positives and negatives connected no matter how it is done, I reasoned that it might not make too much difference if the charger wires came in anywhere along those connections.  I am sure that someone with an electrical engineering background could explain about ohm resistance and voltage drop as opposed to having the charging wires directly connected to the opposite battery poles, but I felt that the more secure and simple layout I designed would outweigh those concerns.  I hope that I am right.

Good luck finishing up, Ron.  I'm very jealous that you are still able to be in the water.  The season is over here in Michigan for all intents and purposes, so I will have to wait for Spring to truly enjoy the results of all this work.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch e26C #32 "ENCORE"

Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan 

[RONALD WEBER]

I hope that we are right. This is new to me and although it all looks good on paper the real test is yet to come. I based this entire project around what I envision as the future of my sailing so I hope I didn't overlook anything.

I will have to confess that in my sailing youth I would only resort to the motor in preference to selling my soul to the devil. That didn't endear my wife to the joy of sailing when there was little wind and summer heat on the Chesapeake. I guess she just wasn't into the finer points of sail trim for light air.

 

I will provide updates and pics as I proceed through the initial phases.

 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

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