Rigging slab reef line for Nonsuch 260 carbon boom.

[329a...@gmail.com]

Morning,

Can anyone kindly provide a line drawing or info as how to rig the single reef line for a Nonsuch 260?  This is a slab reefing method where the clew line runs inside the carbon fiber wishboom and connects to the tack as well. In other words , one line is used to reef both the tack and clew line simultaneously from the cockpit. It’s duplicated for the second reef. 

At the bow end of the boom there are two lines that exit the boom and when you pull on one, the other tensions up and visa versa. I don’t comprehend how the line running back to the clew connects to this setup.  Scratching my head here. Thnx..

Gary Forster / Aloki (not a 260) 

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

This is also called "jiffy reefing". I never knew that this method was used on Nonsuches (but maybe, it has to do with carbon fibre booms). Interesting.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Paul Miller]

IMHO slab reefing would be difficult on a Nonsuch because 

a) the “boom” is not directly below the sail

b) the “boom” is not at a fixed fore and aft position relative to the mast

You would have to give up draft control and I think you would be stressing the wishboom in directions it wasn’t meant to be stressed.

Paul M

NS20U #211, Sandpiper

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[newelljc9]

I ran my first reefing outboard pennant through the starboard aluminium wishboom and the topping lift through the port side. They decluttered the wishboom while reducing windage and havens for spiders. I never contemplated using slab reefing with the wishboom. It is imperative that the tack reefing pennants be kept drum tight when reefed to prevent the choker ripping out the tack in heavy weather.  I doubt that can be accomplished with slab reefing with a wishbone. It is one of the reasons I adopted my gaff rig so I could use slab reefing. It has proved itself over the years and has been particularly useful for single handed sailing in my 80's.

The gaff rig is far better balanced which allows me to sail with full sail with winds up to 30 knots. I only have one reefing pennant even though my sail is set up for two since it is unlikely that I would go sailing in winds that would justify the second reef. However, if I were caught out in a full gale, it would not take long to thread the reefing pennant through the second reef pennants.

John Newell

Mascouche 26C 1

Toronto

Mascouche running through the western gap at speed with a single slab reef deployed. Photo taken by Dr. Norman Freedman, Nonsuch 30U, National Yacht Club

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Gary,

Because the single-line reefing system was introduced with the newer boats, most of us -- including me -- have little to no experience regarding it.

I did take a look at the manual on-line, though, and found some information which might help.

If you download the Nonsuch 260 manual from the www.Nonsuch.org website, you'll find the diagram I think you're looking for on the very last page.   That page is numbered as page 68 in the text, but the PDF counts only 65 pages, so it appears that the on-line copy is missing a few somewhere.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[329a...@gmail.com]

Many thanks Bob, I found it. Only issue I now have is how to thread two lines around that double block.wish me luck. Gary 

[Paul Miller]

Slick!

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay B.C.

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Gary,

Go to the 260 manual in the Membership section of the INA site. The diagram is the last page of the manual. Page 68 of the manual 66 of the PDF.

Mark Powers

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

I definitely wish you luck on threading lines through that double block, Gary.

As near as I can figure out from the drawing, the double block has to somehow be able to slide forward (and backward) in the boom because the forward lower part of the reefing line being drawn back to the cockpit looks like the key to tightening both forward and aft ends of the reef.

If that block can be slide back close to the one of the line entry holes through the boom, that might make it easier. 

I have a flexible "picker" gadget that I got at hardware store that's kind of like this one at McMaster-Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/small-parts-pickup-tools/retrievers~/ that also might help with easing the line through.

But, this is a good one for Mike Quill -- he was the rigger, he must have done this for the boats.

Have, um, "fun" and let us know how it goes.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233

   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Richard Westin]

I am Richard Westin,  proud new owner of Intuition IX and confused by the rigging diagrams and language.

I know the manual is supposed to be all one needs,  but given how novel the boat is to me I would be grateful for any photos of how the all reeling lines are organized.  

On Sunday, June 2, 2024 at 8:01:01 AM UTC-4 329a...@gmail.com wrote:

[Richard Westin]

Thank you.  I wonder if I do not understand the terminology.  

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[Joe Valinoti]

Richard:  One of the reasons that we sign each post with the name of the boat and where the boat lives is that you may find another boat like yours nearby. 

Regards,

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[Darren Plumbe]

I have an NS22, and it has 4 reefing lines (2 tack, 2 clew lines), and often wondered about the feasibility of using a 2 line jiffy reefing system (2 tack/clew lines). In an earlier post, it appears that someone has this?

Is anyone using a jiffy reefing system?

Darren Plumbe

SV Madeline Grace NS22 #20

Presqu'ile YC

Brighton, Ontario Canada

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[Richard Fried]

Richard:

Congratulations on your acquisition and joining a most exclusive but welcoming club of savvy sailors.  For me, it would be helpful for you to share photos of your existing reefing line arrangements, so I can get a sense of what you have as a basis to offer thoughts on options and alternatives.  Is that possible and would it be helpful to you?

Richard Fried

Melita - NS36 02

Marblehead, MA

On Jan 8, 2025, at 8:25 PM, Richard Westin <rwe...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am Richard Westin,  proud new owner of Intuition IX and confused by the rigging diagrams and language.

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[Richard Westin]

I am in Marsh Harbour, Abaco, The Bahamas.

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[Richard Westin]

All I can detect in my diagram that I can understand is that there are two lines, one each per reefing grommet.  Each is tied to the boom, goes to the grommet, returns, enters a local block, runs forward through leads to the forward block, down, through another block and turns to the cockpit. 

 From these conversations, there seem to be a second set of lines that I do not understand.  Perhaps the terminology is confusing me.

I was hoping for a photo, but an explanation of the "second lines" would be great.

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[Richard Westin]

Thank you, it would, but there are no reefing lines installed.

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[Don Crossley]

Richard,
Unless I missed it, your reef description seems to only include the line attached to the sail's clew. There's a second line at the mast that attaches to a cringle on the sail luff. Actually there are two pairs of reef lines for each of the first and second reefs.

Cheers,
Don
'87 NS30U Breezin'
Vancouver BC

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[Richard Westin]

Thank you  very much. Do you happen to have any photos of the rig?

Also, is my description of the "first" set of lines (from clew) correct?  

What is the function of the second set of reefing lines?

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[Paul Miller]

As I understand single line slab reefing, it would be hard to accomplish with a wishbone rig where the forward end of the “boom” is high above the tack of the sail reefed or not.

In the slab reefing I have used on previous boats, the line would start aft on the boom, go up through the reef cringle, return to the other side of the boom aft, run along the boom to the forward end, turn up and go through the tack reef cringle, return to the forward boom, and then run aft to the cockpit. This obviously requires the boom to be at the bottom of the sail.

(Even on a much smaller sail this line becomes VERY LONG)

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay B.C.

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Richard,

If you're an International Nonsuch Association member and haven't already seen it, you might want to download the New Nonsuch Owners Quick Guide.  On the MEMBERS tab at www.Nonsuch.org, click on MANUALS and you'll find it sitting right between the Naiad 18 and Nonsuch 22 manuals.

Pages 15-28 cover rigging.  There are a lot of pictures.  Although the pictures are for a 26, you'll find that they apply reasonably well to your boat.

Some of the newer models had single-line reefing systems, entailing a lot of complicated arrangements inside the boom.  You could find a sketch in the N260 or N354 manuals, I think.  IMHO, though, that arrangement looks easy to jam, hard to maintain, and even harder to retrofit to a boom that wasn't assembled with it at the factory.   I've never seen a Nonsuch with it, however, so an owner who has one might have a different take on the concept.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

   Marina del Rey, California

[Bob Gehrman]

These are pics of my NS36 - I had to configure and run all new rigging. When I bought it all the running rigging was on the starboard side, there was no topping lift adjustment on the deck (it was on the boom), and there was no 2nd reef. These are before pics with my notes for changes and my after pics installed. I think I may switch the reefing outhaul/downhauls so that the downhauls are next to the halyard to make that maneuver a bit simpler.

Bob Gehrman

NS36 #52 "Fortunate"

Greenwich Bay, Rhode Island

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[Richard Westin]

Thanks.  This is really good.  Looks like  I need a few more brakes and  cleats.

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[Brian M. Godfrey]

Hi Richard,
   There have been 5 different sizes of Nonsuch made in probably at least 10 different models and over a period of maybe 20 years with variations (hopefully improvements) made each year.  So it would be helpful to know which boat you have.  Otherwise it will be really hard to answer your question.  One boat may have one set of reefing lines while another may have two sets and some owners have added a third.  And we're probably not even sure that what you call a "set" is the same as what we call a "set".  So please help answer your question by telling us what the boat is.
   Also, if you tell us where you are located, there may be someone nearby who would actually show you their reefing setup.  Or look at yours.  I know that, if you were in San Diego, I'd help - though I'm still barely intermediate in reefing skills myself.
   In the meantime, some basics (I at least know these!)
   A Nonsuch has a really big sail for the size of the boat.  But only one sail.  Sloops and multi-masted boats have lots of options to reduce sail area, but we have only one: reefing.  So you are smart to try and figure it out.
   Our three cornered sails are attached to the mast at the bottom corner called the "tack".  They are hauled up the mast by the halyard which is attached to the sail at the "peak".  The third corner of the sail is pulled out towards the aft end of the boom and that corner is called the "clew". 
   Reefing is a way of "shrinking" the sail.  So if we have a "tack" reefing point a few feet up from the tack corner of the sail and a "clew" reefing point a few feet up from the clew corner of the sail we can pull the sail down and attach it at those points.  This basically eliminates the lower portion of the sail from generating power.
   If the sail has a second tack reefing point above that first one and a second clew reefing point above that first one, then your sail has two reefs.  Using the second reef points allows you to shrink the sail even smaller.
   Each reef point has a control line that runs back to the cockpit.  It appears that Ellis (maybe everyone) calls the one that controls the tack point the "tack line" and the one that controls the clew point the "reef line".  (Don't know why it isn't the "clew line", but there's probably some reason.)
   Below is a very busy little drawing that I snipped out of my owner's manual.  You will notice that there are two tack lines within the red circle and two reef lines in the green circle.  1st Reef, 2nd Reef, 1st Tack, 2nd Tack.  They are arranged in a logical order, probably so as to prevent confusion in case you have to reef during a period of vigorous excitement.  :-)   I'm willing to bet that other boats have different layouts, even if using the same lines because one person's "logic" may not be the same as the next person's.
   On my boat, the 1st tack line leads from the cockpit to a block at the base of the mast, then up through the first reef point (a grommet in the sail a few feet above the tack corner of the sail), then back down and is tied off somewhere at the base of the mast.  Various models seem to have different arrangements for all of the blocks and attachment points at the base of the mast, hence our requests to know what kind of boat you have.  Going up and back down like that reduces the pull on the tack line by roughly half.  Kind of like running a line through a block does.
   The 2nd tack line parallels the first, but goes through a second grommet above that first one.
   The 1st reef line follows a more complex route and I get the impression that it varies much more from one model of Nonsuch to the next.  Basically, it leads from the cockpit to a block at the base of the mast, then up the mast to the wishbone boom.  From there it might enter the tubing of the boom or it might run through guides along the outside of the boom - in either case it leads towards the aft end of the boom.  When near the aft end of the boom it passed through a block, then up through the 1st clew reef point - again, a grommet in the sail a few feet above the clew corner of the sail, then back down and is tied off to the wishbone boom tubing on the opposite side from that last block. 
   The 2nd reef line parallels the first, sort of, but goes down the other side of the wishbone boom, presumably to reduce tangling or something.
   At the most rudimentary level, reefing entails slacking the halyard while pulling down the tack line, tying off the tack line, re-tensioning the halyard, then tightening the clew reef line.  Thus shrinking the sail.  I did it that way the first time and it worked.  But that crude process can apparently result in damage under certain circumstances.  Other members have made very helpful suggestions and suggested a couple of documents which have been helpful in proceeding toward mastery of reefing.  Some day...
   Here is a link to the thread where that was discussed.  I urge you to look through it and find those references and read them.  And you'll see a video of the boat with the sail reefed if that helps explain anything.  It doesn't show any detail about where the lines lead.  https://groups.google.com/g/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/c/VNU5Wi6NFVI
   And here is that illustration, as promised:

--Brian M. Godfrey
  Vela, NS33, San Diego
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[Richard Westin]

I believe the seller's agent told me it is hull # 4 of the Nonesuch 36 line.   Your message was very useful because  I could not figure out the tack line concept.   I sent the sail out for repairs but I do not remember anything on it that would allow the tack reefing. Also the setup in the cockpit suggests there were only 2 reefing lines and those were aft, sio it seems I have a simplified version, which is OK with me.  I will mostly be single-handing the boat so I consider that " less is more"  even though it might produce more stress.  The winds around here (Abaco) tend to be pretty mild so if I am thoughtful I should be able to avoid major stresses...

Again, thanks, and I will follow up as you suggested.  I love the boat.

RW

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[Brian M. Godfrey]

   You have to reef both forward (tack) and aft (clew) ends of the sail at the same time.  If it has two clew reefing lines and no forward (tack) lines, then either it has some alternate system or you will need to add the tack lines.  It seems likely to me that you have all of the hardware and so on, but are just missing the actual lines, themselves.  If you look in the manual it will give you the lengths and colors for the tack lines.  They are easy to replace, though you are likely to come back to us with more questions when that time comes.
   Also, you might contact the sailmaker who is doing your repairs and ask if it has reef points.  San Diego also has light winds most of the time, but it's that exception when you will need to reef.

--Brian M. Godfrey
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[Richard Westin]

Thanks.  I will ask him when he is about to return the sail because I do not want to make him search for the tack end grommets in the middle of the job.  

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[Captain Greg]

Hi Darrin

I have a bit of experience with the single line reefing setup, on two previous boats. One at a time:

- first was a Brewer 22 Cape Cod Catboat, traditional gaff rig and wooden spars. Was originally set up with slab reefing using ties through grommets along the reefed foot of the sail. I ran a single line for each of 2 reefs from cockpit, through turning block at base of mast, up to tack reefing cringle, back to turning block on boom, aft along boom to another turning block and up through the clew reef cringle then straight down tied to the boom. I ran a line like this on either side of the boom, one for each reef. This made it plausible to reef single handed from the cockpit. I did not have an autopilot on this boat so that was handy. In practice, there was so much friction on this setup that I tended to set the reef before leaving the dock, as it was much easier to release it than to set it when under way. That boom was about 18 ft long and a very heavy sail (plus the weight of the gaff).

- second was an Intercat 1500 – an unusual boat – a cat-rigged catamaran of 28 ft LOA x 14'+ beam. Sail area and boom length very similar to the Nonsuch 26. This was a 1990 build which we acquired in Punta Gorda Florida in 2020 and used it as a winter liveaboard  there for a few years. This vessel came with an in-boom reefing system which took me a while to figure out until I saw the same thing on a friend's Island Packet and was able to identify it as an Isomat Reefing System. I have attached a diagram of that here. I was very careful not to lose any of the lines (two at aft end, 4 at foreward end) inside the boom as I had no idea how I would fix that problem. We sold the boat last year, after surviving Hurricane Ian on the hard; and thankfully before the recent Hurricane Milton, while it was moored by last owner in Charlotte Harbor and is now 'lost'. In fact the whole marina where we were based (Fisherman's Village) was pretty much destroyed by Milton. My friend's Island Packet docked there wound up a few blocks inland impaled on a fence as a result of the very high tidal surge. It was sadly written off due to significant damage.

I see from Gary's (Aloki) post and diagram of June 2.24 in this thread, above, that there was a similar system to the Isomat rigged for one, or some Nonsuches. It looks like it would be a challenge to fix it if anything goes wrong inside the boom. I would not recommend this type of system due to its complexity. Also, any single line system would not permit the prescribed routine for setting a Nonsuch reef, which requires separate setting of the tack reef and halyard before setting the clew reef and choker. One interesting difference between the Isomat system and the one Gary showed is that the downhaul reefing lines to the tack cringles are dead-ended in the tack cringles with stopper knots rather than returning to the base of mast.

My practice with any sailboat now is to reef before I leave anchor or dock if there is any hint I might need it - as I find it easier to release the reef than set it especially single handed. 

My preferred set up on my Nonsuch is the factory approach, external to wishbone. I run my 2 tack reefs to the cockpit on port alongside the halyard, and the clew reefs on stbd. I use a distinct separate colour for the 1st and 2nd reef lines, with matching colour for each pair (my next ones will be yellow for 1st, red for 2nd). I encourage anyone who hasn't yet, to read Botts Thots on how to route the tack reef in particular. See that document on the INA website Members Page under 'Sailing a Nonsuch - Guidance' for reefing and lots of other helpful tips.

Just for fun I've attached a picture of the Intercat 1500 under full sail, and one of the Brewer Cape Cod Cat with a reef in.

Best regards,

Greg Silver

Misty Cat, 26C #121

St. Peter's, Cape Breton,

Nova Scotia

[Richard Têtu]

I used the diagram to replace all lines on my 260 this summer. Just make sure to tie a figure 8 or more before pulling a chase line, or you will have to try to rethread lines internally. Such a mistake cost me two or three extra hours.

[Darren Plumbe]

Greg, Thanks for the detailed response. I can see how friction could be a challenge. Nice boats!

Darren
Madeline Grace
NS22 #20
PYC, Brighton ON

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