Rubber(?) beneath straps on mast

[Peter Grabow]

Hi All,

While prepping the boat for Spring, I noticed that the material (rubber?) beneath the stainless steel straps that hold the aluminum plate in place (to which the lower end of the sail track is attached.) has lived well past it's expectancy, and needs to be replaced.

I am assuming that the material is rubber and serves to insulate the stainless steel bands from the aluminum mast. Please correct me if this is wrong...

Does anybody have a source for this material in the US?  I would reach out to Mike Quill as he is always very helpful, but importing from Canada is becoming more expensive by the minute.

Specs? 

thickness, width (I should have measured, apologies)? Figuring to replace the material under all of the bands as it is 38 years old.

If you zoom in on the photo you can see some of the material hanging down below one of the bands.

Thank you,

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430 

Jersey City (weeks away from moving the boat to Stamford, CT!)

[Peter DePascale]

Peter,

I found a motorcycle inner tube and sliced it up to fit. Seems to work.

Pete DePascale 

Irish Mist 006 33’

Branford CT

Peter DePascale

203-671-2420

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[Ken Dakin]

I had to remove my tack collar to install a new Tides Marine strong track. I obtained the rubber underlay strip from Mike Quill  It’s neoprene rubber, 1/16” thick by 2 1/4” wide by 48” length. I needed 36 “ +/- for the NS 33 mast.

Ken Dakin

NS 33 #7

Sashay

Kington ON

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 11, 2025, at 4:47 PM, Peter DePascale <bathwo...@gmail.com> wrote:



Peter,

I found a motorcycle inner tube and sliced it up to fit. Seems to work.

Pete DePascale 

Irish Mist 006 33’

Branford CT

Peter DePascale

203-671-2420

On Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 4:43 PM Peter Grabow <pke...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

While prepping the boat for Spring, I noticed that the material (rubber?) beneath the stainless steel straps that hold the aluminum plate in place (to which the lower end of the sail track is attached.) has lived well past it's expectancy, and needs to be replaced.

I am assuming that the material is rubber and serves to insulate the stainless steel bands from the aluminum mast. Please correct me if this is wrong...

Does anybody have a source for this material in the US?  I would reach out to Mike Quill as he is always very helpful, but importing from Canada is becoming more expensive by the minute.

Specs? 

thickness, width (I should have measured, apologies)? Figuring to replace the material under all of the bands as it is 38 years old.

If you zoom in on the photo you can see some of the material hanging down below one of the bands.

<20250311_142500.jpg>

Thank you,

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430 

Jersey City (weeks away from moving the boat to Stamford, CT!)

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[ed.b...@gmail.com]

Peter,

 

When we bought our boat (2013) the backing plate was separated from the mast. 

 

Mike Quill sold us a kit to re-secure the backing plate to the mast. The kit included SS bands, a tool to tension the bands around the backing plate/mast, and instructions.  The kit did not include rubber materials.  I wonder how many boats have rubber under the bands.  We are on Lake Huron so maybe the kit is different for saltwater boats.  The original (1986) attachment method on our boat used an adhesive, there were no bands around the mast.  What ever glue was used, the attachment method lasted for over 30 years, so not bad engineering. 

 

I suspect that as the rubber deteriorates the band tension will drop and so its likely a good idea to remove the rubber and retighten the bands to ensure the backing plate is secured to the mast.  If you are going to use a rubber spacer/isolator, then you might want to find a material that is UV and oxidation resistant.

 

I notice from your photo that some of your bands require the tool that Mike included in my kit but that some of them are gear clamps.  Gear clamps seem simpler to install and easy to check for tightness each spring than the type I have and like some of the ones shown in you photo.

 

…..Ed

Ed and Marlene Brost

SaSeaCat - NS30U/322

Sarnia Yacht Club

 

 

 

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Peter DePascale
Sent: March 11, 2025 4:47 PM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Rubber(?) beneath straps on mast

 

Peter,

I found a motorcycle inner tube and sliced it up to fit. Seems to work.

Pete DePascale 

Irish Mist 006 33’

Branford CT

Peter DePascale

 

203-671-2420

 

On Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 4:43 PM Peter Grabow <pke...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

 

While prepping the boat for Spring, I noticed that the material (rubber?) beneath the stainless steel straps that hold the aluminum plate in place (to which the lower end of the sail track is attached.) has lived well past it's expectancy, and needs to be replaced.

 

I am assuming that the material is rubber and serves to insulate the stainless steel bands from the aluminum mast. Please correct me if this is wrong...

 

Does anybody have a source for this material in the US?  I would reach out to Mike Quill as he is always very helpful, but importing from Canada is becoming more expensive by the minute.

 

Specs? 

thickness, width (I should have measured, apologies)? Figuring to replace the material under all of the bands as it is 38 years old.

 

If you zoom in on the photo you can see some of the material hanging down below one of the bands.

 

 

 

 

Thank you,

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430 

Jersey City (weeks away from moving the boat to Stamford, CT!)

 

 

 

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[Brian M. Godfrey]

   You definitely want to keep that rubber in good shape.  Or more to the point, you really want to keep the stainless bands from contacting your aluminum mast.  I know this from painful experience as I went through a lot of work recovering from some corrosion where these small bands and the larger tack collar had been in contact with the mast for too long.

   I used these high quality 316 stainless bands.  (Measure your mast to get the right ones as you don't want a lot of extra):
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/scandvik-316-ss-solid-band-hose-clamps/13628

   And I separated them from the mast with strips of this neoprene sheeting (use the 70A durometer hardness):
https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/131/4072/9013K42

   I used a piece of scrap plywood and a 3' straightedge to cut the neoprene into strips with a snap-blade knife.  With a little practice and patience you can cut a very straight line this way.  I cut them just slightly wider than the clamps so they wouldn't look stupid.  I think I cut them 1/16" oversize, but I'm not sure.  In retrospect, I could have cut them a bit wider and it would still have looked fine, so experiment with how wide you want them before committing to a bunch of cutting.
   When placing them, I first measured and cut the strips to length.  Then I put the clamps on loosely and slid the rubber under them.  You have to fiddle with band tension and such but it's really easy to get the hang of.  There is a point of adjustment where the clamp will hold the rubber but you can still fudge it up or down.  At that point you get it all even all the way around and then finish clamping.  Buy using adjustable clamps it is really easy to do this and also to correct if you get it wrong.  It was one of the easiest parts of the whole mast project.

--Brian M. Godfrey
  Vela, NS33, San Diego
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

[Mike Quill]

Hi Peter 

At the factory, to isolate the back up pad bands, we used simple black electricians tape. You can try the same method or acquire some 1/32 rubber strips and trim to suit. 

Cheers 

Mike Quill 

[Peter Grabow]

Thank you all for the prompt and detailed responses - very helpful!

And Ed Brost - an extra thank you as I hadn't noticed that some of the clamps were not the gear clamps, which would have stymied the project... I will most likely replace all of the clamps to ensure the best job.

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

[Peter Grabow]

Following up -

Removed the four old mast clamps this past weekend, and replaced with four new clamps and rubber strips to isolate the 316L Stainless clamps from the aluminum mast.

Luckily, where the rubber on the old clamps had failed and the clamps loosened, upon close inspection there was no damage to the mast, only dirt that wiped away, so the old clamps could not have been loose for very long.

I purchased a 1ft long by 36 inch wide (that was the minimum width) piece of 70A durometer hardness neoprene sheet from McMaster-Carr, and cut strips that were slightly wider than the new clamps, and trimmed the 36" strip length to fit the mast circumference (about 32 inches for the 30U mast).  I purchased a 5 pack (only needed 4, but now have a spare) of SAE 170 worm gear hose clamps in 316L stainless from PYI. These came with 'clamp jackets' to cover the ends and protect fingers (and eyes - years ago I sliced a cornea on the protruding end of the mast-boot clamp, not good).

All went smoothly, including how to remove the two clamps that didn't have worm gear drives, but where the end was folded over and secured by tabs. I was going to add the 5th clamp in the space between the top clamp and the next lower clamp but the neoprene strip and clamp together would not fit through the opening between the mast track and that backing/reinforcement plate... I figured if it has been fine for 38 years with four clamps, it should be okay...

A couple of photos of the finished project:

    

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430

Stamford, CT

[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

I have been toying with doing this and was looking at the weird straps and wondering how to use them.  Hose clamps of the proper length - never thought of that.  And so easy to loosen to replace the whatever you use underneath.  Those caps on the end of the hose clamp strap - they will also extend the life of your sail cover canvas!

I was planning on using bike inner tubes - the racier the bike - the better thinner the tube (thinner than car or motorcycle, I suspect, and probably easier to source at a local bike shop where they throw them out instead of patching).

Is there a downside to cutting the rubber or whatever wide and then trimming it with a razor blade/Exacto knife using the edge of the hose clamp strap to guide the blade?

I have a Tides track - is it possible to switch these out while the Tides track is in place?

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U

Port Washington, NY

[Ward Woodruff]

I am questioning the strength of a perforated hose clamp compared to the non-perforated original straps. 

Ward Woodruff

N33 #8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

On Apr 21, 2025, at 8:35 PM, 'Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I have been toying with doing this and was looking at the weird straps and wondering how to use them.  Hose clamps of the proper length - never thought of that.  And so easy to loosen to replace the whatever you use underneath.  Those caps on the end of the hose clamp strap - they will also extend the life of your sail cover canvas!

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[Francis Cichowski]

Consider UV exposure when selecting insulating material.

Since bicycle inner tubes are never meant to see daylight they may not be happy outside.

The following table seems comprehensive

It is an extract from this web page

    https://www.rubberandseal.com/what-is-the-best-rubber-for-uv-resistance/

This pretty much covers anything you might wish to know about UV and elastomers

Fran Cichowski

S/V "Southpaw" NS30U   300

Cobbs Marina Norfolk VA  In transit to  Spicers Marina Noankj CT

Comparative Analysis of UV-Resistant Rubbers

Material	UV Resistance	Temperature Range	Chemical Resistance	Common Applications
EPDM	Excellent	-40°C to 121°C	Good	Roofing, seals
Silicone	Excellent	Up to 260°C	Excellent	Automotive seals, gaskets
Viton	Very Good	-26°C to 230°C	Excellent	Aerospace seals
Neoprene	Moderate	-40°C to 120°C	Good	Automotive parts
Butyl	Good	-45°C to 121°C	Good	Liners, sealants
Nitrile	Poor	Varies	Excellent	Oil seals (not outdoors)
Natural Rubber	Poor	Varies	Moderate	General use (not outdoors)

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[Francis Cichowski]

As a follow up to my previous

This is an abstract from Macmaster Carr

Adhesive-Back Sheets

							1/16" Thick.		1/8" Thick.		3/16" Thick.		1/4" Thick.
Wd.	Lg.	Max. Pressure, psi	Temperature Range, °F	Hardness	Hardness Rating	Color		Each		Each		Each		Each
1/4"	36"	650	-80° to 450°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Red	8525T171	$10.17	8525T181	$11.20	8525T191	$12.22	8525T211	$13.69
3/8"	36"	650	-80° to 450°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Red	8525T221	13.61	8525T231	14.96	8525T241	16.29	8525T251	17.64
1/2"	36"	650	-80° to 450°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Red	8525T261	17.11	8525T271	18.82	8525T281	20.58	8525T291	22.29
3/4"	36"	650	-80° to 450°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Red	8525T311	23.79	8525T321	26.20	8525T331	28.60	8525T341	31.00
1"	36"	650	-80° to 450°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Red	8525T351	28.75	8525T361	33.64	8525T371	36.67	8525T381	39.69

[Francis Cichowski]

OR This From MCMaster Carr

Adhesive-Back Sheets  EPDM

							1/16" Thick.		1/8" Thick.
Wd.	Lg., ft.

Max. Pressure, psi	Temperature Range, °F	Hardness	Hardness Rating	Color		Each		Each

1/4"	25	800	-20° to 220°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Black	8525T158	$13.05	8525T159	$14.65
3/8"	25	800	-20° to 220°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Black	8525T16	16.48	8525T163	18.50
1/2"	25	800	-20° to 220°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Black	8525T164	19.58	8525T165	21.98
3/4"	25	800	-20° to 220°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Black	8525T166	26.08	8525T167	29.30
1"	25	800	-20° to 220°	Durometer 60A	Medium Hard	Black	8525T168	33.55	8525T169	37.68

[Ward Woodruff]

Why would a couple of layers of quality PVC electrical tape not work as a galvanic isolator on these bands?  Easy to trim to width after application to band. Cheap and easy. 

Rubber would be necessary for the tack collar and sheave collar. 

Ward Woodruff

N33 #8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

On Apr 22, 2025, at 4:54 AM, Francis Cichowski <capt...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Brian Godfrey]

   A couple of layers of electrical tape will work - for a while.  Maybe for a long while in fresh water.  But then, using nothing at all will work for a while, too.  If you are in salt water I think a more durable material will last much longer and pay for the difference.
   I used (and recommended) something more substantial and durable than electrical tape because my mast had extensive corrosion beginning around the original mast bands with electrical tape.  Left unchecked it could have led to mast failure.  Thankfully I caught it when it was very minor.  The work and cost of prepping and repainting the lower portion of the mast was so great that using neoprene was a complete no-brainer.
   Look up what is required to paint an aluminum mast.  Special epoxy fillers for aluminum, two-part aluminum compatible epoxy primer, then regular two-part urethane primer if using a high quality paint system, then the paint.  And those paints don't come in touch-up size cans.  The total cost is many times the cost of some neoprene from McMaster-Carr.
   I was talking to Klacko Spars, recently (different issue) and they said they are no longer making masts for Nonsuches.  So you all should be taking care of the ones you've got.
   Alternatively you may need to have the tube made by a flagpole company and then have a marine fabricator make that into a mast. Or go with carbon fiber with its different set of problems.  Both of those sound like a lot more hassle.

Brian Godfrey
Vela, NS33, San Diego

-- Brian Godfrey

[Peter Grabow]

Lloyd - Mike Quill, in an earlier response to this thread, had suggested 1/32" thickness for rubber - I went with 1/16" as I figured it would be easier to control, especially if I was trying to install by myself (Susan was assisting so it made it much easier), and the extra thickness would add some additional separation between the clamps and mast. The added thickness did make it a bit more difficult to get both the rubber and the clamp band under the track in one or two spots but it worked.  After trimming the rubber to the correct length when wrapped around the mast, I used a little painters-tape to hold the ends in place when fixing the clamps over them - worked very well.

Perhaps the Exacto-knife I tried to use was a bit dull when I tried to cut the rubber... I ended up using a scissor to cut along the line I drew with a silver sharpie (on the black rubber).

Ward - there were two perforated clamps and two of the folded-tab type on my mast... I do not recall, and don't have any records showing that any work had been done that replaced any of the clamps previously, so I was a bit surprised when it was pointed out by an eagle-eyed Nonsucher in this thread that the clamps were different...

With that said, the perforated (the clamps purchased are more 'indented' and not actually perforated) snugged up nicely, as long as they weren't over-tightened (they did slip a bit) they seem quite tight.

Mike Quill, in a previous response to this thread, did say that the factory used electrician's tape. I am not sure when they did this, or stopped doing this, as noted above I do not believe the bands on my boat were ever replaced so they came from the factory with rubber under the bands in 1987.

Fran - thank you for all that information via McMaster-Carr.  I didn't see the adhesive backed rubber strips when looking for the neoprene sheet. This would have made the process a bit easier. The rubber was purchased before the clamps were received so the true width needed for the rubber was not certain (I cut the rubber to be slightly wider than the bands). 

Thanks!

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

[Ward Woodruff]

Peter,

I doubt the factory used worm drive clamps.

The non-perforated worm drive clamps you have are for sure stronger / more durable than perforated clamps.

Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

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[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

Regarding the use of bicycle inner tubes under the bands on the mast - it is my understanding that the good old black inner tubes are made from butyl rubber, which is resistant to UV.  See:  https://www.rubberandseal.com/butyl-rubber-iir/  Fancier latex tubes I suspect are not as resistant.

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U

Port Washington, NY