Choker line length and sheet connection

[murf.f...@gmail.com]

I have several newly questions. During a recent offshore sail I broke the fairlead collar which lead to breaking the choker line and the sheet connection at the end of wishbone boom.
Questions
1. NS30u size and length of choker and topping lift lines. The choker line is two parts, one connects wishbone to mast (am guessing this length to be critical) and other connects from that point to cabin. The book says 35’ x 7/16” Dacron braid choker line which seems plenty long. However, the book says 15’ x 3/8” Dacron braid topping lift line which is way short. I measured 65’ masa manos.

[Bob Gehrman]

Hi Murf -

1. There are 2 lines that make up the choker control: Identified as: "Wishbone Choker" - This short line connects to a double-block about 1/3 up the mast to the wishbone, to the front of the wishbone and then to a padeye on the mast. The second line, "Wishbone Choker Tackle" connects to that same double-block noted previously, and then back down to the base collar to another block, up again, down again, and then leads through the deck organizers to the cockpit. Pulling this line in or out brings the wishbone forward and aft. The schedule in the manual is correct: 7'-9" for the choker and 35' for the choker tackle.

2. My boat does not have that part in the middle of the boom that you show broken off. My main sheet block is attached to the lower padeye that you've 'temporarily' connected it to. The upper padeye is where the safety cable should be attached from the topping lift shackle. You appear to be missing the safety cable, which keeps the boom from killing you in the event that the "Adjustment Pennant for the Topping Lift" breaks. You are correct that the Manual does not call out the Adjustment Pennant for the Topping Lift. I don't know what the "Topping Lift Pennant" in the manual refers to. I used a 3/8" Dacron braid for the Adjustment Pennant and my notes say it is 71' long.

I'm not sure what that piece you have broken would be used for? The fact that it is mounted to teak doesn't make me think it was intended for the kind of structural forces needed to handle the main sheet tackle. Possible used to connect a boom-swing preventer when the sail is not up? I use some straps mounted to the stern corners that I clip on to keep the boom from swaying when at the dock or just motoring in big chop.

Here's a couple of pics:

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 "Quickbeam"

Baltimore, Maryland

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2. There is a shackle connection of main sheet to the end of the wishbone boom. There three separate potential connections at this location. I have temporarily connected sheet to lowest point(assume this is ok). I will have to drill and retap bolt holes in boom to reconnect original connection point(assume this necessary to take stresses at that connection).

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Murf NS30u #472
To Your Shore
Rockport, Texas

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[Bob Gehrman]

One other pic

[Bob Gehrman]

One other correction: The choker block is not a double block...

[murf.f...@gmail.com]

Great info, thank you

Murf, NS30u To Your Shore

#472, Rockport, Texas

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2023, at 4:25 PM, Bob Gehrman <b...@gehrman.net> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CACfZVSORGjC8%2BdS7k%3DS%3DJD6L%2BMJEDxPS9Mn5YWjH2Dx6MO9bjw%40mail.gmail.com.

<IMG-7064.JPG>

[BRIAN CAYER]

Bob

Nice picture of a well flaked sail and the chocker block all in one.

Brian

Boat-less in New England

On Sep 20, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Bob Gehrman <b...@gehrman.net> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CACfZVSORGjC8%2BdS7k%3DS%3DJD6L%2BMJEDxPS9Mn5YWjH2Dx6MO9bjw%40mail.gmail.com.

<IMG-7064.JPG>

[murf.f...@gmail.com]

More questions.

My fairlead collar has a black electrical tape type material that provides the separation of differing metals at the mast. What is this material and where can I source it?
Murf NS30u To Your Shore #472

Rockport, Texas

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2023, at 4:38 PM, BRIAN CAYER <b.k....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/C51D591D-D00F-4EBC-BD90-CDC0C678B72E%40sbcglobal.net.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Hi Murf -

As you may have noticed, ALL kinds of topics keep coming up for a re-visit on this forum (which makes sense - how the heck would YOU know that this was covered 2 -5 years ago ??). I made these 2 cheezy drawings to illustrate lashing the choker block to the front of the boom - not using a shackle. A shackle will wear away that nasty little hole in the aluminum casting. (Same deal at the back of the boom, BTW).  The other drawing is a BROAD simplification of how the choker line (the long line that you pull) is attached to the choker tackle (the short line that actually drags the boom back) and how the whole shebang is rigged through the blocks.

Hope they clarify things.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[BRIAN CAYER]

Thanks Ernie

I saved those works of art to my boats folder.

Brian

Boat-less in New England

On Sep 20, 2023, at 6:11 PM, Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto <ernest...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Murf -

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/58cabf28-5de6-4ee8-abb1-a4551698762bn%40googlegroups.com.

<Choker block to front of boom.jpg>

<Choker line rigging.jpg>

[Ken Dakin]

On my 33, this material is 1/16” thick neoprene rubber in the form of a belt which completely  underlies the circumference of the fairlead collar and tack collar. I think it provides galvanic isolation of the collars from the mast and may help to prevent or minimize collar rotation around the mast under load. You can find it on Amazon, typically in 10 ‘ lengths or more. In order to install a new Tides Strong Track this past spring, I had to first remove the stainless steel tack collar and I replaced the neoprene belt with the collar re-installation. For my tack collar, the belt was 2” wide.

Ken Dakin

NS 33 #7

Sashay

Kingston ON

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 20, 2023, at 5:44 PM, murf.f...@gmail.com wrote:

More questions.

My fairlead collar has a black electrical tape type material that provides the separation of differing metals at the mast. What is this material and where can I source it?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/8DFD2A4B-D8F7-4994-B213-91EE694F035A%40gmail.com.

[Bob Gehrman]

McMaster-Carr also carries a wide variety of materials suitable for this purpose. 

McMaster.com 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/75A0CCC3-4F22-4259-ACC8-2A84CF1467CF%40gmail.com.

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Murf,

If you're an INA member, these are all questions where you'd be strongly advised to take advantage of the new capability to get advice from the original rigger for all the Nonsuches, Mike Quill.  Log on to www.nonsuch.org with your membership email and password, click on the MEMBERS tab and select MAINTENANCE on the menu that pops up.

You're dealing with issues where getting advice from the original rigger is really in your best interests.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Murf -

I totally agree with Bob. No one (and I mean NO ONE) knows this stuff better than Mike Quill. Mike has , very kindly, agreed to the idea of free consults with INA members regarding their challenges (and you do have a challenge or two here - not insurmountable, by any means, but this MUST be tackled absolutely correctly otherwise ...... trouble will ensue). I hope that you are a member of the INA. If you are not, you should join. It could be the best few bucks that you spend this year, no guff.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[murf.f...@gmail.com]

I am a new owner and INA member. Mike and all of the group discussion has been a pleasant and much appreciated benefit to ownership. The ocean is not nearly so lonely with y’all in it. I appreciate the offer to send the pond liner material, but it is not expensive to purchase and I can get it cut to proper width and it has an adhesive backing which I think will be helpful when installing. Again thanks, cheers 🍻.

Murf NS30u To Your Shore #472

Rockport, Texas

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2023, at 8:07 AM, Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto <ernest...@gmail.com> wrote:

Murf -

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/476423e7-5457-4733-81b9-29f96ca9e067n%40googlegroups.com.

[INA President]

Murf,

Responding to: "The ocean is not nearly so lonely with y’all in it..."

Thanks for saying that.  

That's the whole reason for the INA's existence, summarized in eleven words.

-- Bob

   Robert Neches

   Co-President, International Nonsuch Association

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233  

[Thor (26C Brentwood Bay BC)]

I replaced a hard shackle at the clew with a roving. The roving failed. Put in a soft shackle and I that is working well...

[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

For galvanic isolation for the mast collar, I suggest you consider going to a bike shop and asking them for a punctured tire from a fat tire (you do not want a skinny tire - it will not be wide enough).  If they are worried that you will fix it and use it, tell them to cut it in half at the nozzle.  You then split it length-wise and presto, you have a longer than needed piece to put under the mast collar.  It is no real cost to you and keeps the punctured tube out of a landfill.  It has worked for me for the past decade or so.

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U, 424

Port Washington, NY

[Chrisinwilson]

By looking at what you wrote and your pictures, I’m thinking you are not talking about the choker, but the 2 part topping lift (and blocks) and the main sheet where it connects to the boom/ wishbone and the other end that connects to the deck at the stern of the boat. The pictures you posted indicates that you are in the stern by the cockpit. The choker is at the bow end. Look up to the front of the wishbone, at the bow and you will see a block right at the point of the wishbone. When the line is tightened it makes the whole wishbone go towards the stern and it flattens the sail. 

The main sheet is what is attached to the stern end. And I’m really not sure of your fair lead terminology. I think in your pic where there is a piece of teak attached to a U-bolt, that is the ubolt for the block at the stern where the lines lead up to the stern end of the wishbone. The other pic with the broken piece looks like where the main sheet block attaches to the wishbone. 

To help clarify, can you take a full side view pic of your boat and do a markup and make circles around the places you’re talking about. 

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Murf,

Chrisinwilson is giving you good advice to take a full view pic.

I took a second look at the original pictures you posted.  One thing I feel very confident about, is that something is very wrong with the attachment that came off the aft end of the wishbone.  I don't know what that teak spacer was doing there, but with or without it, bolts of the size shown in your images should simply not be shearing off.  

That indicates corrosion problems that suggest you should check into how well other fittings are bedded.  The poor condition of that teak spacer is another sign of previous neglect.   I'd also want to find out whether and why there were any unusually excessive forces on that fitting.  Something's not right when a bolt that thickness shears off that cleanly.

Once again, I strongly suggest you take advantage of the INA membership to bring in the big guns by doing a free consult with Mike Quill, the rigger who has literally been with Nonsuch boats since they were built 35-40 years ago.  

To do so, log on to www.Nonsuch.org with your member email and password, and then:

Click on the MEMBERS tab, then MAINTENANCE.

    Select the option to contact Mike Quill, the original and most knowledgeable rigger who's worked on Nonsuches since they were built. 

  Read the agreement, and click at the bottom to send him an email.

Be sure to include that yours is N30U #472 because Mike very likely may have records on your specific boat. 

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Hi Murf -

More expert advice from  Chrisinwilson and, natch ..... Bob Neches. In addition to their solid recommendations, I'd put out a new post in order to try and locate ANY Nonsuch owner that is not too far away from you.  That way, you could actually go and check out their boat and it's rigging, etc. (with notepad and camera) and talk directly to them. 

I think that this would clarify a mountain of issues.

Best of luck.

Ernie A. in Toronto