suggestion for appropriate size 2 speed self-tailing winch for main halyard

[Mike Massagli]

Hi all.

The original factory-installed winch for the main halyard on my Nonsuch 26C is a Barient  18 2-speed.  I would like to replace it with a similar sized and power 2-speed self-tailing winch.

Your suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Michael Massagli

NS26C, #61, Tenacious

Nantasket, MA

[Richard Lane]

I replaced my main sheet winch with an Anderson 22ST and retained the Barient halyard winch, adding a rubber Wincher, since that winch is far less frequently adjusted than is the sheet winch.

Dick Lane

NS26c #35 Swoose

Port Townsend.

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 27, 2021, at 9:18 AM, Mike Massagli <mikema...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all.

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[Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC]

I have a self tailing winch as well as a main sheet winch. It is useful but a rubber wincher will do the same job, I have them on the topping lift and one of the reef winches. As well I have a jam cleat aft of the main sheet winch and it makes adjusting the sheet much easier than fiddling with the winch.

[Richard Lane]

Correction, Anderson 28ST, not 22ST.

Dick Lane

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 27, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Richard Lane <rql...@aceweb.com> wrote:

I replaced my main sheet winch with an Anderson 22ST and retained the Barient halyard winch, adding a rubber Wincher, since that winch is far less frequently adjusted than is the sheet winch.

[newelljc9]

Hi Mike,

You would be happy with an Anderson 28ST and even happier if you mounted it next to the hatch so you can make full use of the two speeds. This is assuming you sail with a dodger which prevents the winch handle rotating through a full 360 degrees. We changed our winch positions last year and regret that we did not get around to changing it years ago. The Anderson is well made and easy to service.

John Newell

Mascouche 26C1

Toronto

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Mike -

Anderson winches are, truly, a thing of beauty. Defender has a #28 ST, 2 speeds, on sale for around $675.00. However, look at the handy chart from Anderson that specs winch sizes for applications. I believe that your sail is is around 420 sq. ft. In poking around that chart, i found that for a halyard winch for a mainsail of 430 sq. ft., they recommend a #40, not a #28. Furthermore, they go on about heavy displacements and why one should go with the "next higher size". Defender (ahhh .... Defender - just that name gets me excited) is selling the Anderson #40 for around $805.00. For the extra $125.00 and a slightly, slightly bigger footprint, I'd buy the Anderson #40 in a heartbeat. I never, ever heard anyone complain about an Anderson winch. They are built in Denmark (a delightful country).They are like a Rolex.

I've attached a link to this rather interesting chart:   https://drive.google.com/file/d/1arRBLWm9WWos4VnC7yA3pS74_i4NjebE/view

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Sorry, all - 

I forgot to sign out !!

Here goes:  Ernie A. in Toronto

[Robert Horne]

I have a Lewmar 40 electric with an extra switch mounted by my heel area while at the helm. Never a problem. Bob Horne, 1989 N26C, ENCORE, Pocasset, MA

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[Joe Valinoti]

Just a caution on powered self tailing winches.  They’ve been known to remove fingers because you can’t release the line quickly or easily. 

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Mike Massagli

Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 12:18 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

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[Elizabeth Powers]

We have an Anderson 28 ST on our 26C for the halyard and one for the mainsheet. Have been happy with them but for the halyard sometimes think bigger might be better. Do not mind that I can't swing the handle in a full circle.

You may want to look at the Pontos winches,  see yachtingworld.com  for an article. They also have a newer smaller size. as well. Expensive but cheaper than a power winch.

Rob Powers

Respite 26C #50

Sidney BC

[Fred Rachwitz]

Joe is right about ST electric winches being dangerous. And, for me it's not just rumor. It is not me who was injured but I sailed with a gentleman who lost 2 fingers on his own boat from a ST electric. His hand was not a pretty sight. 

Fred Rachwitz

Concerto

NS 30U #445

Harbor Springs, Michigan

Northern Lake Michigan

Sent from Fred's iPad Air Gen 3

Sent from Fred's iPad Air Gen 3

Fred Rachwitz

Concerto

NS 30U #445

Harbor Springs, Michigan

Northern Lake Michigan

On Mar 27, 2021, at 7:54 PM, Elizabeth Powers <ejpsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

We have an Anderson 28 ST on our 26C for the halyard and one for the mainsheet. Have been happy with them but for the halyard sometimes think bigger might be better. Do not mind that I can't swing the handle in a full circle.

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[Cedric Guthrie]

100% agree with Joe and Fred on the installing/ use of an electric ST winch.

Manufacturers should be required to include a complete list of all potential hazards and results whilst using an Electric ST winch

Safe Sailng

Cedric- Single Malt

26 C # 207

Chester Nova Scotia

Sent from my iPho

On Mar 27, 2021, at 22:08, Fred Rachwitz <fredr...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Add me to the "I agree" list. One of my club members here in Toronto almost lost a few digits with his electric winch. 

I truly believe that a good #40 (2-speed) ST winch will raise the sail on an NS26 with absolute ease, provided that you have enough room for the winch handle to utilise both speeds. If it still is too much of a grunt, add a battery-operated small but hi-torque 1/2" drill with a $50.00 Winchbit (which also turns every other winch on the boat into an electric winch, not that one needs to).

I use a discontinued Hilti. 1100 inch pounds. It's small and light and the quality is superb. There are plenty of others available. IF, though, you want a right-angle drill (better ergonomics), the gold-standard is a Milwaukee but it is bigger and heavier. it is a helluva good tool, though.

There is a ton of info and many posts about this very subject on this discussion board.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Joe Valinoti]

I have a manual and an electric non-ST winch.  The only time the electric is used, is if I’m alone.  Otherwise, someone jumps the halyard at the mast and a half a turn with the manual winch to tension it.  Also, all lines leading to the cockpit run through clutches.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[David Darmstadter]

I replaced my old Barient with an Andersen 28ST on my 26 last year and have been very happy with it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:25 PM, newelljc9 <newe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mike,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/e1e7fac3-9ca4-4c91-bf12-5b5795f1c244n%40googlegroups.com.

[ken...@gmail.com]

I purchased some medium size Barton Winchers but was disappointed to find out they won't fit my original equipment Barient 18 halyard winch. I checked with Barton and they agreed they wouldn't go on because of the large top flange (41/4") and the large size would be too big for the drum.  Have you guys (Dick, Thor) found otherwise? 

Ken Julian

"Idyll Hours"  NS26C#9

Fredericton, NB, Canada

[ken...@gmail.com]

Does one need a 2 speed winch if using a drill (Milwaukee M28) or is a 1 speed preferred?

[Paul Miller]

I have an M28 and it does help to switch to low gear for the last bit to tighten the luff. However the chuck as purchased depends on an Allen screw in reverse and the force of tightening your luff can easily break it. The fast solution is to remove the Chuck and put red Locktite on its threads. My solution as I needed a lower profile to clear my dodger window was to replace the Chuck with a modified (drilled and tapped) Cranker bit.

Paul M

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[Joe Valinoti]

Be very wary of powering self tailing winches.  They’ve been know to cause bodily harm.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

e

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Paul Miller

Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2021 9:51 AM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Subject: Re: suggestion for appropriate size 2 speed self-tailing winch for main halyard

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/43aeca61-7214-4f35-84a4-42f8d52c3250n%40googlegroups.com.

[Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC]

Adding a jam clear aft of the winch is a good idea....  easier to manage than the self tailing winch feature,

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

I second Joe's opinion - electric winches scare me (and they are not cheap and tend to make great head bangers in your galley). If you use a drill (or not) and if you are going to replace a halyard winch, make it a self-tailing 2 speed. If you are not replacing the winch (as I did not replace my Lewmar #18 single-speed ST winch), your drill-Winchbit combo should work on a single-speed winch (but if it's a big boat with big sail, your drill will thank you for offering it an easier time, in lower gear).

Ernie A. in Toronto

[ken...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the advice once again, guys.  If I have to replace it, it sounds like a 2 speed would be a good idea and probably go with the Anderson.  I would really like to just put a Wincher on but I have no idea how Dick & Thor got one to fit on a Barient 18.

Ken Julian

Idyll Ours  NS26C#9

Saint John, NB, Canada

[Richard Lane]

Ken, I don’t recall the Wincher size I found in our long gone marine surplus store, I believe they come in at least 3 sizes and even on a warm day using SailCote and a bike tyre lever it was a struggle. Hoisting the sail I use an old Sears 29v NiFe 1/2” drill, first in forward, then in reverse. I use the Cunningham cringal and small adjacent Barient to tighten the luff with a Barient reversible winch handle found at said store.

Dick Lane

Ns26c #35 Swoose

Port Townsend

Sent by Richard Lane 

On May 15, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[ken...@gmail.com]

Thanks Dick.  That inspires my to try again with the Wincher.  I'm going to get the thing seriously hot and soapy and see what I can do!

Ken Julian

"Idyll Ours" NS26C#9

Saint John, NB, Can.