Nonsuch 33 - Sail Stack on the Bimini

[Steve Romeyn]

As I am assessing this boat, I discovered that my 6'3" height fits perfectly down below but not under the Bimini! The Bimini canvas, which is stretched tight, is on my head and the sail is resting lightly on the Bimini. I am looking for a clue as to what is wrong and how to solve the problem. I am totally new to the Nonsuch and am relying on the vast wealth of experience represented here on this forum. Please help!

[Michael Jabara]

The topping lift can raise the sail stack (make sure to loosen the mainsheet first)

Have you hoisted the sail and see where the boom sits vertically then?

Michael Jabara

Hobbes II - 1995 NS 354

San Rafael, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Steve Romeyn <st...@windsonglife.com> wrote:

As I am assessing this boat, I discovered that my 6'3" height fits perfectly down below but not under the Bimini! The Bimini canvas, which is stretched tight, is on my head and the sail is resting lightly on the Bimini. I am looking for a clue as to what is wrong and how to solve the problem. I am totally new to the Nonsuch and am relying on the vast wealth of experience represented here on this forum. Please help!

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

You did not mention whether the sail was up or laying in the lazy jacks when it was resting on the Bimini. When the sail is in the bag or at least not hoisted you can lift the boom with the topping lift so that it is well clear of the Bimini. When the sail is fully hoisted it should be clear of the Bimini. Except in rare circumstances you will have the topping lift fully off (loosened) when sailing otherwise it will interfere with the sail shape. Are there floor boards in the cockpit? If yes you can remove them to give more clearance. If no floor boards to remove the only real way to gain more head room is to have a taller Bimini. If you were to go that route you will need to make sure it is not so high that it interferes with the sail  or boom when you are sailing. On the 26 Nonsuch Bimini height is limited to about 6'. I don't know how high you can safely go on a 33. Hope fully a tall person with a 33 will be able to tell you.

Mark Powers

[ronw...@rocketmail.com]

I am approaching the same situation with my N22. I am hoping to achieve standing headroom in the cockpit, which should also give good visibility when seated at the helm. My boat came with a 3 bow frame but no canvas for the bimini, so I am ready to proceed with designing one. First I need to measure the height of the foot when the sail is hoisted, I am assuming that will be the baseline for the design. If it's not high enough to allow for my 5'6" height, I have been considering having about 6" removed from the head of the sail to allow a greater hoist. I am hoping to build a cover that extends somewhat over the companionway (for rainy days), and aft to the steering pedestal. Aft of that I plan to have another bow which will allow mounting of a solar panel and serve as a boom crutch. The solar panel will provide shade over the helm. The aft bow will be near the rear of the cockpit coaming, so it can also serve as guide for the sheet. I plan to get a top opening sail cover made so I can adjust the height with the lines from the boom.

Has anyone here already done a similar bimini for a N22? Are there any fatal flaws with this plan?

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

[Richard Lane]

I am/was 6’3” tall and cannot stand completely erect under my dodger or bimini, however I already have to bend like a jackknife to enter/exit the boat with bimini up.

Bott’s sail up, TL slack, there is some 4” clearance for the boom, lazy jacks and top zipper sail cover. My son who is 6’5” complained about the headroom, but he rarely sails with me. If the boom clears OK but the sail foot doesn’t, why not just shorten the last three lazy jacks?

Richard Lane

NS26c #35 Swoose

Port Townsend

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 17, 2021, at 7:29 AM, 'ronw...@rocketmail.com' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I am approaching the same situation with my N22. I am hoping to achieve standing headroom in the cockpit, which should also give good visibility when seated at the helm. My boat came with a 3 bow frame but no canvas for the bimini, so I am ready to proceed with designing one. First I need to measure the height of the foot when the sail is hoisted, I am assuming that will be the baseline for the design. If it's not high enough to allow for my 5'6" height, I have been considering having about 6" removed from the head of the sail to allow a greater hoist. I am hoping to build a cover that extends somewhat over the companionway (for rainy days), and aft to the steering pedestal. Aft of that I plan to have another bow which will allow mounting of a solar panel and serve as a boom crutch. The solar panel will provide shade over the helm. The aft bow will be near the rear of the cockpit coaming, so it can also serve as guide for the sheet. I plan to get a top opening sail cover made so I can adjust the height with the lines from the boom.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/3c1de3a9-002a-48ee-bab3-e496d4dfe5a3n%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Valinoti]

Steve:  Without extending the bimini height, I don’t have an answer.  I just want to mention that you will see how we normally sign off with our names, what we have and where we are.  It really helps in getting answers to your questions.

Welcome aboard,

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Ron -

Don't move too quickly on this. Sail the boat a little while on various points of sail before making real plans - Don't just let the sail drop and measure.

Like you, I'm a leprechaun  (5'6"). A nod to St. Patrick, BTW. I can't understand why you'd have issues with stuff being too low or getting conked on the head.

Erin Go Bragh

Ernie A. in Hogtown   (OK, OK .... my last name is not Irish. But, today, we are ALL Irish.)

[ronw...@rocketmail.com]

Thanks all for your usual thoughtful responses. 

Dick - Thanks for the encouragement. Reading between the lines, you confirmed my thinking that the foot may be inconsequential when using a sail bag that is permanently attached. I would surmise that it would be OK to get the required height by simply raising the lazy jack lines as necessary. There seems to be more than enough skirt on my sail that could be raised up without harm.

Ernie - I shall take your advice and not be in a hurry. I guess one serious concern I have is to be able to stand erect behind the wheel and to have decent visibility at the same time. I'm thinking that if the bimini interferes with the foot of the sail, or the sail bag, that it may not be an occurrence except when tacking. When the sail is down, my plan is to have the boom rest on the aftmost bow which would keep it at the right height and relieve the mast of it's weight. Actually I probably won't be able to rush this thing with other projects to be completed. Hopefully I can get in some sailing time in between. My lack of physical height was redeemed when Japanese cars made their appearance in this country and they fit me just fine. The one problem that remains however is the top shelf at the grocery store where they put all the stuff that I want. I am grateful that you spelled it out clearly "LEPRECHAUN".  Back in school they just called me Lepy which I resented. Of course the Irish girls would always follow me for the fictitious (still) pot of gold. 

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punt Gorda Fl

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

hi ron -

Always a pleasure to (attempt to) assist another, especially an NS22 sailor (cuz WE rock). In the "it takes one to know one" department, I have the inclination that you, like me, are prone to worry a little. Fear not - this is a sign of superior intellect (and real humility). I mention this because you are bringing up a lot of interesting scenarios that might arrive but ....  I do not know if you have actually gone sailing with this boat, a few times, at least.

Specifically, our masts are MADE to sit, for decades, slightly bent backwards due to the weight of the boom and the sail. I have never heard of a Nonsuch sailor creating a "boom rest" purely to avoid the mast having to take this weight. A boom rest (any type) is handy, I suppose, for keeping the boom still while motoring or just to keep it from swinging around. The whole boat, mast and all, are impeccably designed and aluminum (like glass) is very flexible.

If I am correct in my assessment .......  stop worrying, go sailing and, just like the rest of us, flail around only a little (unless you are out in a full gale). You'll get all of these queries answered, pronto !!

Enjoy and stay healthy.

Ernie A. in rainy and grey Toronto

[Fred Rachwitz]

I certainly have not seen a Nonsuch of any size using any type of support like a boom crutch. When at rest or motoring the topping lift is more than capable but can be augmented with a halyard if desired. Plus, you will want to use a short fixed line tied to one of the stern quarter castings with a snap hook at the other end. Connected to the boom end when at rest or motoring and sized so that it pulls the boom over and down a bit it does wonders to stabilize and minimize erratic boom movements.  It triangulates the forces to stabilize.  Just remember to un-snap it before raising the sail. Hope I have described it well enough. Someone likely has a picture. I can get one in a few months here in the frozen north if you still need clarification. 

Fred Rachwitz

Concerto
NS 30 U #445

Harbor Springs, Michigan

Northern Lake Michigan

Sent from Fred's iPad Air Gen 3

Sent from Fred's iPad Air Gen 3

On Mar 18, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto <ernest...@gmail.com> wrote:

hi ron -

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/2536273e-5305-4aa7-931e-a8afa591557dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Somehow the sailors of the 22s have moved this thread into a new direction. Hopefully an owner of a 33 will pipe up with some information for the original requester.

I use a pole to support the weight of the boom when at the dock or at anchor. I don't think it is necessary but it just something I do. I use a nylon strap with an adjuster and two hooks and  a 4:1 block and tackle with snap shackles to hold the boom in place (I refer to them as preventers). I never have the support up when the boat is moving. I rarely use a preventer when I moving. If so only one to pull the boom to one side.  If the sail is not hoisted I generally just lift the boom all the way up on the topping lift.  The 4:1 tackle is available to use as part of a man overboard recovery system that was developed by a couple of people in the Nonsuch Niagara North West fleet. 

I will try to attach a photo showing the preventer set up. Hopefully one of you will be able to identify the strange white growth on La Reina in the photos.

Ron,

I would suggest that you not fix the boom to a boom rest (gallows) when motoring. If the boom is not hoisted on the topping lift and not attached to the gallows, the boom will bounce up and down hitting the gallows as you go over waves. If you fix the boom down and don't slacken off the topping lift, as the mast head pumps forward and backward as you go over waves the topping lift will try to rip the boom off of the gallows or the gallows off of its attachment points. To try to avoid this you could let the topping lift right off but I suspect there will not be enough slack. The top of the mast is very flexible and has an amazing range of movement. I think you will be better off to simply lift the boom on the topping lift when motoring.  If it does not lift high enough you might have to shorten the standing part of the topping lift tackle.

If you go to the Nonsuch Photo Gallery for the 22s   22_gallery   both Comet and Katika have photos of their Biminis that you might want to look at. Katika also has a solar panel on top. Based on the clearances in the photo of Katika  ( 123306085 ) if she were mine I would be inclined to shorten the standing part of the topping lift tackle. Katika looks to have a 3:1 purchase on the topping lift, so for each foot the standing part is shortened, an extra 3 feet of running tackle will be needed. 

Mark Powers

[ronw...@rocketmail.com]

Ernie - you are right, I guess I do worry too much. I heard the same words from the dealer who was a experienced trimaran sailor, when I addressed him with some of these concerns about the Corsair I purchased from him. He was also correct with his advice. So I will submit to the will of the wise and spend more time sailing and less thinking.

Fred/Mark - I am confident that your solutions are based on experience, so I will put off re-inventing the wheel and opt for your guidance instead.

Mark - I believe that white stuff covering your boat is dandruff from a visit by old man winter. I would recommend a sunshine shampoo with a beer rinse to get rid of it.

P.S - I did access my boom at the mast by climbing a ladder. It wasn't too disturbing but I did have a drink afterward for practice. While up there I discovered some of the Nonsuch magic. Reaching around the mast, I found the nav light lens to be loose and the screw stripped. Carefully removing the cover to find a remedy, the LED bulb was knocked out. Odd that I didn't hear even a tiny splash, but when I descended the ladder, there it was lying on the deck. 

Hoping that summer comes soon for all of you up North.

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

[Steve Romeyn]

Big thanks to everyone who provided remedies and counsel for my bimini problem. This is a highly engaged group of Nonsuch lovers! 
On my sea trial yesterday, having adjusted the bimini frame legs, I found adequate headroom under sail!

Thank You,

Steve Romeyn

Roswell , GA

Shopping for a 33 or 30 Ultra

[John Hartley]

Very shortly after the purchase of our NS26 I found that I had a real problem with the wishbone smashing around when motoring in chop. We have a narrow lake here and sometimes beating into the wind causes me to revert to the Iron Jib conveniently located below the cockpit. When doing this the wishbone flailed all over the place. A bridle and hardening all the other available lines (Topping Lift and Main Halyard) in my mind only reduced the flailing somewhat and greatly increased the stress on all the components.

In my mind the solution was so simple I could not believe it was not a part of the boat from square one!

Two pieces of PVC cut to a suitable length around 7’ or so (to position the Wishbone above the Bimini) that would be resting against inside of the foot of the rear Stanchions and attached to the end of the Wishbone.

 

The conduit is roughly 7’ in length is 1 ½’ and with 1” dowel inside (to provide added rigidity and flotation if dropped overboard). The conduit is capped at each end with the standard PVC cap, and a large eye screw is screwed through the cap into the dowel at one end of each 7’ length of the conduit. A chain connector link is used to join the eyes at the end of the conduit and a snap shackle attached to the eyes that will join them with the snap end used to attach the Gallows to the end of the wishbone. With the Gallows attached to the Wishbone and the lower ends resting against the bottom of the Stanchions and the Mainsheets hardened the Wishbone does not move and the Gallows stay in place. The Topping lift can be eased completely removing stress and continued bend of the mast.

The boat is kept this way when not in use in the Harbour and this is also used for winter storage.

The Gallows are simple to attach. Simply mark the Topping Lift at a point where it can be brought to and the Gallows can be easily attached to the Wishbone and allowing the lower ends to be put in place against the inside of the Stanchions. Ease the Topping Lift and harden the Mainsheets and nothing moves with all the stress relieved.

The Gallows are always convenient because when not in use they are stored out of the way across the stern of the boat, in front of or behind the Mainsheet block with the snap shackle clipped onto one of the eyes on the rail. Always handy just a short reach away. I have seen a lot of Nonsuch boats in person and in photos but never seen this used except for the 3 boats I installed them on in the Elbow Harbour.

Sorry tried to add photos but it would not let me. Email me for info at above or jhar...@sasktel.net

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

If the primary concern is the boom bouncing too much while motoring, another alternative is to run a bridle or two from the stern chocks to the aft boom fitting.

Here's one example of what that might look like.

I have both lines adjustable with trucker's hitches, running to a hook that grabs a soft shackle hanging off the fitting.  Tighten those and the mainsheet, and the boom is held from three points.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143