Diesel lift pump

[Robert Illingworth]

Nonsuch Luck's diesel lift pump seems to have died. The symptoms are the engine (W27A) starts normally and after a few second dies away slowly. Also I've changed the Racor filter on the bulkhead in the port lazarette and when the ignition switch is on the bowl doesn't refill with diesel.

It'll come as no surprise to any of you that Westerbeke want over $700 for a new pump. Has anyone had experience of a generic lift pump and what the specification of such a pump needs to be?

There are plenty of 'solid state' pumps on the Internet costing less than a hundred bucks. 

Bob Illingworth 

Nonsuch Luck 30U

Temporarily in Ipswich, UK; cruising the coast and rivers of Essex and Suffolk. 

[alst...@aol.com]

Hi Bob,

I had a similar problem on MagnifiCat, turned out to be several odd years of accumulated sludge in the fuel tank clogging the up take.  As an Old Lutonian, I know a lot about accumulated sludge !  Pop in to Bury St. Eds. cemetery and put a few flowers on the family plot for me please, I'll pay back at the next reunion. .   

Regards,

Alan Steward

30C 144 MagnifiCat

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[Peter Grabow]

Hi Bob,

I had a similar issue a few years ago on my W27A... part of the issue was that my batteries were old (8th season) and dying - check your battery output first!  I changed the lift pump at the same time as I thought that may have been the problem as well (as I had pulled it apart somewhat to clean out the internal filter and may not have got it back together properly, though it had worked for a week or 2 before giving me problems...)

The mechanic who did the work (we were on a 2+ week trip and had to get towed into New London, CT) found a Facet (part of Puralator) Gold-Flo electric fuel lift pump which has worked well.  Cost thru the marina was $249US (back in 2018) so direct from a supplier or Amazon I would venture today it would be maybe $150 to $200.  Check the flow rate, etc to make sure you get a properly sized pump... I am not sure how wide of a range their pumps cover...

It was a very straight-forward install. 

Image attached (from when I pulled my transmission to rebuild 2 years ago)

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430

Jersey City, NJ

[Bob Gehrman]

I had sludge in my fuel tank as well. I got a siphon hose and attached it to a wooden dowel so I could reach the corner of the tank after opening the fuel gauge port on the top of the tank. Pointing it at the bottom, forward corner where the fuel hose comes out I was able to suck out some nasty sludge.

I ended up draining the fuel tank, cleaning it as best as possible, and then refilling with fresh fuel.

Worth checking into that before buying a new fuel lift pump.

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 "Quickbeam"

Baltimore, Maryland

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/194969906.1670965.1649366544492%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Ken Dakin]

Another possible source of the problem may be a clogged filter in the lift pump itself.

These pumps can be opened to clean or replace the filter but I consider having a replacement gasket on hand before opening, assuming it has a gasket. My pump is not OEM and is installed so the opening is on the bottom which requires the pump to be detached at the hoses and inverted on a work bench to clean out the filter.

Ken Dakin

Sashay NS 33 #7

Kingston ON

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 7, 2022, at 5:49 PM, Bob Gehrman <b...@gehrman.net> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CACfZVSNBggqe%3D8KYeiEOhXX7mjoJy09p2-s-q1kUPDr9bGCJ3w%40mail.gmail.com.

[doncr...@gmail.com]

My NS30U with Westerbeke 31HP engine, came with a separate lift pump mounted on bulkhead next to engine, installed by PO. I assume it replaced the non-working one attached to engine. It’s a Walbro FRB-13, 12v, 7 psi, costs about US$160. According to spec’s it has a 18,000 hr life, should be good for many years.

Don

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ken Dakin
Sent: April 7, 2022 3:00 PM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Diesel lift pump

 

Another possible source of the problem may be a clogged filter in the lift pump itself.

These pumps can be opened to clean or replace the filter but I consider having a replacement gasket on hand before opening, assuming it has a gasket. My pump is not OEM and is installed so the opening is on the bottom which requires the pump to be detached at the hoses and inverted on a work bench to clean out the filter.

 

Ken Dakin

Sashay NS 33 #7

Kingston ON

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 7, 2022, at 5:49 PM, Bob Gehrman <b...@gehrman.net> wrote:



I had sludge in my fuel tank as well. I got a siphon hose and attached it to a wooden dowel so I could reach the corner of the tank after opening the fuel gauge port on the top of the tank. Pointing it at the bottom, forward corner where the fuel hose comes out I was able to suck out some nasty sludge.

 

I ended up draining the fuel tank, cleaning it as best as possible, and then refilling with fresh fuel.

 

Worth checking into that before buying a new fuel lift pump.

 

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 "Quickbeam"

Baltimore, Maryland

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/DECE5CF2-B7A8-4E91-BCA2-5E3836A481E0%40gmail.com.

[Joe Valinoti]

NAPA for $163.  Just put one in my W27.  It was in stock in my local store.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

[Joe Valinoti]

I do this every spring and never have a bad fuel problem.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Bob Gehrman

Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2022 5:48 PM

To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Diesel lift pump

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CACfZVSNBggqe%3D8KYeiEOhXX7mjoJy09p2-s-q1kUPDr9bGCJ3w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Joe Valinoti]

It’s not a filter, but a strainer.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Ken Dakin

Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2022 5:59 PM

To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Diesel lift pump

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/DECE5CF2-B7A8-4E91-BCA2-5E3836A481E0%40gmail.com.

[Ron Schryver]

Do you have a make and model for that pump Joe?

Ron

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/48F609BB5E92424DABE2CFB9850AA1C9%40DESKTOPAL8QCME.

[rum kist]

Thanks for the hint. After five years on the hard, the new to me, Universal M35 started right right up today. However, I am certain draining the tank will be the smartest thing I can do. Now I have a plan!

Harry Bloom

Typhoon Harry NS30U #512

On Apr 7, 2022, at 8:51 PM, Ron Schryver <ron.sc...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Robert Illingworth]

Thanks for all your thoughts and comments. I've had a quick look in the diesel tank and that's clean, it was replaced about five years ago. The diesel I drained from the Racor filter was clean without any water in it. The batteries are good, they were renewed two years ago and are kept charged by solar panels. The lift pump makes a soft clicking noise when it's running but it's silent now so I'm thinking it's either the pump or the wiring. I'll get the yard to have look.

Alan, 

Before I retired I used to work in the brewery in Bury St Edmunds and I drive past it between home in Cambridge and the Essex coast. I occasionally stop by to meet up with old colleagues so if I get the chance I'll pop into the cemetery, the one by St Mary's church to start with.

Bob Illingworth 

Nonsuch Luck NS30U 

Temporarily moored Ipswich, UK 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/84083370-02AA-4CF1-82B7-A55ADA16FE77%40gmail.com.

[Joe Valinoti]

Sorry, Ron.  They just looked it up under Westerbeke W-27 and found it without a problem.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Ron Schryver

Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2022 8:50 PM

To: Nonsuch Google Groups

Subject: Re: Diesel lift pump

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CAK4sQXgdZsTza5v7mr5zQhV6E4rvqR%2B2SWvv9JBVNXPO6-85EA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Joe Valinoti]

The lift pump can be easily checked by disconnecting the pump discharge line, putting a hose on it and placing the hose in a clear jar.  You should see plenty of fuel coming out of the hose. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CAHe2Ycgj7UvVx4Ya9pijTr%3DkF9TLQ8ubUZE4ohgPN2mZgRAhMg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Barry Connell]

I strongly recommend cutting a 6” porthole into the tank which can be closed tight , but which allows for a thorough cleaning of the tank. 

I’ve installed such ports in my N36, and in my previous boat (Wylie 34), and found the port to be very helpful.

barryConnell

Nocturne N36

On Apr 7, 2022, at 6:27 PM, <doncr...@gmail.com> <doncr...@gmail.com> wrote:

My NS30U with Westerbeke 31HP engine, came with a separate lift pump mounted on bulkhead next to engine, installed by PO. I assume it replaced the non-working one attached to engine. It’s a Walbro FRB-13, 12v, 7 psi, costs about US$160. According to spec’s it has a 18,000 hr life, should be good for many years.

Don

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ken Dakin
Sent: April 7, 2022 3:00 PM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Diesel lift pump

 

Another possible source of the problem may be a clogged filter in the lift pump itself.

These pumps can be opened to clean or replace the filter but I consider having a replacement gasket on hand before opening, assuming it has a gasket. My pump is not OEM and is installed so the opening is on the bottom which requires the pump to be detached at the hoses and inverted on a work bench to clean out the filter.

 

Ken Dakin

Sashay NS 33 #7

Kingston ON

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 7, 2022, at 5:49 PM, Bob Gehrman <b...@gehrman.net> wrote:



I had sludge in my fuel tank as well. I got a siphon hose and attached it to a wooden dowel so I could reach the corner of the tank after opening the fuel gauge port on the top of the tank. Pointing it at the bottom, forward corner where the fuel hose comes out I was able to suck out some nasty sludge. 

 

I ended up draining the fuel tank, cleaning it as best as possible, and then refilling with fresh fuel. 

 

Worth checking into that before buying a new fuel lift pump.

 

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 "Quickbeam"

Baltimore, Maryland

<image001.jpg>

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/01c401d84ace%24a9fe3fc0%24fdfabf40%24%40gmail.com.

[Don Crossley]

There is also a fuel filter on the engine, just after the fuel lift pump. You checked the Racor, etc, but didn't mention checking that filter too. It is easy to see in the photo posted earlier by Peter Grabow, it's in the small metal cylinder just to the right of the new lift pump.

Don

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/7910D656-8EDF-487E-8833-9FF2FA4484B6%40gmail.com.

[Thor Powell]

The pumps are made by Facet.  If there is no clicking it is toast. 

Facet Pumps for Westerbeke

[Tom Schoenhofer 26C#28 North Star Penetanguishene]

Ron

Part #301385 from Universal $246.80 - each USD

Torrensen also says a Facet 476459N same pump but cheaper

Facet Cylindrical 12v Fuel Pump, 1/8 NPT, 6-8 psi

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8118#

$117 USD + ship+tax

I couldn't find an auto parts store that sold the Facet 476459N in Canada.

A Facet pump is $180 CAD from Princess auto(unknown Facet part#)

https://www.princessauto.com/en/12v-32-gpm-solid-state-posi-flo-fuel-pump/product/PA0008606279

It looks the same as the one in Peter's photo above , it would probably work. 

These "new" pumps are electronic in that they don't have points like the original ones installed in our boats. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing, the electronic pumps may be more sensitive to lightning.

Tom

26C#28 North Star

Penetang

[Bobby's Gmail]

Thanks for all your help and advice about the diesel lift pump on Nonsuch Luck.  Being a stingy Yorkshireman I was determined not to have to spend a lot of money on a new pump.  I went over the electrics very carefully and found a loose connection behind the instrument panel.  Problem solved without any expenditure.

 

Bob Illingworth

Nonsuch Luck 30U #367 (GBR1262T)

Moored Ispwich but moving to Titchmarsh on the Walton Backwaters, Essex, UK; cruising the rivers of East Anglia, and, the North Sea.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/a544406d-c86b-4001-bcca-e7c9af5cc8a2n%40googlegroups.com.

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Titchmarsh Marina, just off the Twizzle? Seems a long way from Yorkshire. Looks like a nice Marina.

Mark Powers