Manual Windlass for Nonsuch26

[John Boquist]

Hello Nonsuchers,

I am in the process of purchasing "Pegram" a Nonsuch26 that isn't fitted with an Anchor Windlass. I like to anchor out when I'm messing about in a Sailboat. I have a Milwaukee right angle drill fitted with a winch bit from my last sailboat. Does anyone know of a manual anchor windlass that I could utilize my Winch Bit for raising anchor with??

  Cheers, John Boquist 

[Phil Harmeson]

To me, " messing about in a sailboat" sounds like anchoring in fair weather on a decent day. We spend, minimally, 20 nights a season anchored overnight. With changes in weather, even in daylight, we've had to pull up and move or adjust scope. Sometimes on short notice. I can't imagine doing this with a drill. We invested in a Lewmar windlass about 15 years ago and have never looked back. Having foot switches for rapid response raising, lowering, or adjusting the windlass has more than once paid for the investment with the safety provided. Give serious thought to moving beyond a manual windlass.

Phil Harmeson

Catharsis.

1985 Ultra 30 #295

Traverse City, Michigan

[Debbie Powell]

I have a manual windlass.  We anchor out for for about 3 months all summer.  No big deal to winch up our 60 feet with the winch handle.   What's the rush?  It is a French design, can't recall the name but doubt it would work with a drill type attachment.  There are "vertical" ones that a winch bit could drive.

https://www.velasailingsupply.com/lewmar-cpx1-gypsy-only-deck-unit/?sku=LEW69000493&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8-vvq4CX7gIVkhh9Ch3gyg0JEAQYBCABEgI9_fD_BwE

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

John,

I apologize in advance if I tell you things you already know.

I am with Phil on this for a number of reasons. I am not sure if the Milwaukee would be up to lifting and dropping the anchor several times. Very few decent manual windlasses come up for sale and the price being asked is usually pretty high. The ones in bad shape are not usually worth trying to fix.  Chances are that if you find one the gypsy will be the wrong size and you will have to buy a replacement for that. 

Some things to think about. What is the weight of your anchor and what type of rode do you have? Is it all chain or a combination of chain and rope? What is the combined weight of the anchor and chain that you expect to lift? When I first bought La Reina (26C) she had a 22 pound anchor and 30 feet of 5/16" chain. I estimated the weight for the anchor and chain to be about 50 pounds. She had a Simpson-Lawrence SL Hyspeed Double Action manual windlass. Due to the design a cordless drill would not likely work on the windlass. The lever moved back and forth not in a circle. It would have been possible to put a socket on the one end of the gypsy but it may simply have loosened the nut rather than lift the anchor. The lever was about 2' long so I don't know if the Milwaukee would have the necessary torque. A single forward and back action of the lever lifted about 3" of chain so I don't know where the "Hyspeed" came into the picture. Most of the time I would haul in the anchor by hand and only used the windlass if I could not break the anchor free. 

One stinking hot day in August a couple of years ago we were in a crowded anchorage trying to drop the hook. I was doing a poor job of selecting a location and we had to lift and reset about 5 times in a a row. We were in about 60' of water so I would let out 180' and then decide we were too close to shore or too close to another boat so I would haul in the full 180' and try again. After we finally had the anchor set the First Sea Lord announce she had found money in the budget for an electric windlass.  She felt the Powers windlass was moaning and groaning more than she could stand. La Reina now has a Lewmar horizontal Pro 1000 series electric windlass with a 22 pound anchor, 50' of 5/16 chain and 300' of rope. We tend to anchor in depths of 30 to 80 feet in this area and the standard scope of 3 to one (I know more is better but there is not room for more). I did not go with all chain because I felt the length needed would add too much weight to the bow of the the 26.

I am neither big, nor strong and you might find that where you anchor and with the rode and anchor you have that you can hoist  manually. Even with the electric windlass I drop the anchor by hand. If you are working by hand you come up to the anchor and tie the rode off and wait a few minutes for the wave action to break the anchor free. Some people have a cup of coffee to pass the time while waiting. 

If you still want to proceed with your idea you need to know that if you have combination of chain and rope you will need a gypsy that will handle both. The gypsy has to be sized to accommodate both the chain and rope. Some gypsies will only handle one or the other but not both and some will handle both. Some windlasses came with a both a chain and a rope gypsy. The Simpson on La Reina had a combination gypsy. The chain to rode splice was not done properly and would not go through the windlass. I would have to pull by hand to get past the splice. It always seemed to me that just as the splice was entering the gypsy it was time to break the anchor free. 

Windlasses come in two types, vertical (capstan) and horizontal. Most of the horizontal manual windlasses used a back and forth lever action and would not be compatible with an electric drill. Most of the vertical windlasses used a rotary action and would be compatible with an electric drill. I have not seen many manual vertical windlasses. I think you will be hard pressed to find a used one in good shape. Even tougher to find one with a compatible gypsy. Occasionally you will find a used electric vertical windlass for sale with a burnt out motor., The electrics were set up for manual back up using a winch handle so it is likely you would be able use one of those with a drill. Given they were geared so a winch handle would work it is also likely the Milwaukee would have sufficient torque. Remember, you don't use the drill or an electric windlass for that matter, to pull the boat froward to the anchor. You either pull it forward by hand or  you motor forward slowly while taking in the rode. The windlass is used to hoist the anchor.

An internet search showed one vertical electric windlass with a burnt out motor for sale. I also found one company selling new manual vertical windlasses but I did not recognize the company name and have no idea of the quality. 

If you are buying a used manual windlass there will be the purchase price and probably the cost of a new gypsy or the cost of new chain and rode. If you are buying a new manual   you may only have the cost of the windlass since you can generally order a compatible gypsy as part of the purchase.  If you are buying an electric windlass you will have the same gypsy and rode issue to spend money on but you will need some other items. You will need a breaker (often comes with the windlass), a relay switch, control switches and wiring. On La Reina I use the house bank to run the electric windlass so I need heavy wires to run to the windlass and back. When sizing the wires remember it is the total length of the run (there and back) not just the one way run. The windlass came with the breaker. I bought a remote control switch package. The  relay came either with the windlass or the remote control. I can't remember which. The wireless remote meant I did not have to drill extra holes in the foredeck for foot controls.  It was not easy but I was able to install the windlass with the mast in place. The other option is to install a new battery forward. The wiring needed to charge the battery is much lighter than the wiring needed to run the windlass from the hose battery.  All of the considerations on this choice are beyond this discussion.

 I see Thor has responded making nonsense of my thoughts and further exposing me as a wimp but since I had almost finished typing I am posting anyway.

Mark ( the power in manual windlasses) Powers 

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 4:58:44 AM UTC-8 Phil Harmeson wrote:

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Hi John -

I second Debbie Powell for the following reasons. An N30 is a helluva lot more boat than an N26. Yes, emergencies can crop up requiring urgent solutions and, it must be said, an electric windlass is a lot less "work" than a manual one. However, the Powell's boat has been in use for decades, at anchor for months, without an electric windlass and the boat that you are purchasing (no spring chicken, either) doesn't even have any machinery to raise it's anchor. It never had.

Furthermore, I think that you are in Canada, as am I. (Perhaps even Sooke, B.C. ??) We live in a wonderful country but, sadly (as our American friends sometimes forget), due to our "Monopoly" money,  most marine equipment is punitively priced up here. It is highly likely that ANY good motor-driven windless will cost you 40% - 70% more in Canada. All of the other bits and bobs will cost through the roof, as well. If you need to get someone to assist with this installation, Canadian labour generally costs significantly more. Bottom line - installing an electric windlass will cost you thousands of dollars. Even if you did all of the work yourself.

So ...... you make choices. These Lewmar jobbies (priced in USD) run electrically OR, seemingly, with a winch handle. Very cool, indeed. You have the best drill going for the job (even though it weighs almost as much as a 50-caliber machine gun). If you installed one of these Lewmar units (costly but excellent) sans motor and tried it for a while using your drill .....  Hey, if it didn't work out, OK ... cave .... and install the necessary motor, etc. But, if it does work out ?? Bingo.

I like this idea. You start with a piece of topnotch equipment and, if need be, add to it. By the way, probably like you (and lots of Nonsuchers), I have been guilty of messing about in sailboat for the last 27 years, in rain or shine or snow or whatever. That is what this is all about, no ??

Enjoy your new N26, John. It's a fantastic boat. Heck, it's almost as nice as my N22 (with no anchor windlass, I might add. My anchor is there for emergencies. I don't anchor out.).

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

John -

Further to my post (that I was literally posting when Captain Powers' post flashed up on my screen), IF that particular Lewmar series of windlasses would work for you, I still like my idea. But, having done your due diligence really well, if you decide that it won't, I would not invest in a used windlass.

And, I will tell you that Mark Powers does know a thing or two (even three) about what he speaks so I would consider his suggestions very carefully. Oh ..... and he, too, is guilty of messing about in sailboats. So you be careful !!!

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Ernie,

 I am almost certain your anchor is there for decoration purposes. 

Thor knows way more than I do. Well at least about boats.

I seem to be spending more time messing about on the internet than on boats at the moment. 

Mark Powers

[Bill Prange]

I've repeatedly anchored my NS26U without a windless.  I've needed to use the starboard mainsheet winch to assist raising the anchor on two occasions when the anchor had become fouled. Otherwise, the chain and anchor don't seem that heavy to manually lift, especially if someone is on the wheel with the motor engaged to offset strain from the wind and/or waves.

Bill Prange

Hawkeye NS26U #233

Richmond Yacht Club, SF Bay

[John Boquist]

Hello Nonsuchers...

 Thank you all who have weighed in on my anchor windlass inquiry... I will start out the season using Bill's suggested anchoring technique...using the main sheet winch to help take in the anchor.  If I will explore the other options after my first season with the boat..Thank you all!!!

 Fair Winds, John Boquist 

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[Elizabeth Powers]

What Mark did not tell you is that the Sea Lord was more concerned about the copious amounts of beer the manual windlass consumed not the the noise.

Rob Powers

Respite 26C #50

Sidney BC

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Mark is partially correct - My anchor is ALSO there for decorative purposes (and I have been told that it makes my boat look like a "proper little yacht").

I used it one in 8 years. It set and got stuck "into" a rock. I almost had a cardiac arrest getting it out. I hope to never use it again (but I, periodically, check the line and chain, just in case). It does look pretty grand, though.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[ronw...@rocketmail.com]

Ernie - you must have bought a Rockna anchor.

Ron Weber

N22 Magic Time

Punta Gorda Fl

[Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC]

Anyone who re anchors 5 times is a very wise man INHO.   Re anchoring in the midst of a thunderstorm at 2am is indicative of a less wise man.  Ask Debbie.

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Indicative of a wise man or one that has a terrible time judging distance?

I try my best to avoid the 2 a.m. reset.

Mark Powers