It's 1/20/2022 what rims are you buying?

[William Lindsay]

I may have a rim brake road wheelset to build in the near future, and as of 1/20/2022 a lot of the road 584 BSD rims that I like buying are not around.  What rims are you buying these days, that you are finding on the shelves?  I see Velocity A23s available for ~$100 which is decent.  Ideally I'd prefer a little more width and a little taller brake track.  

I'm seriously considering springing for one (or two) of the Crust wheelsets.  I wish that rim was available to try out separately.  I may end up disassembling a wheelset and using the pieces in various spots in my stable.  

What else should I consider for a light, 32 hole rim brake 584 rim that is available?

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Nat Lichten]

A23s aren't a bad option, even though they're a bit narrow by current standards. I built a pair up a while ago and I really like them--easy to build up for a novice like me, relatively light and they've taken nearly 4 years of mixed surface riding and some heavy hits without issue. I haven't run anything bigger than 38mm on them, though.

That said, the Crust wheels look like a great deal if you want/need the dynamo.

Nat Lichten

Just outside Detroit, MI

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[Alex Wetmore]

I ran Switchback Hills (50ish mm) on A23s.  They are a little narrow, but it was good enough that I took 4 years to swap over to something wider.  I'd have no concerns around running 42mm tires on them.

Alex

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Subject: Re: [650B] It's 1/20/2022 what rims are you buying?

 

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[Alex I]

I will be running 42mm (currently measure ~40) Hetres on Grand Bois Papillon 650b rims. Will add any observations over time. But they're not really light at 512g per spec (I don't have a scale to weigh and didn't before building). Built up well, little bit of extra attention at the seam, which I understand isn't too unusual. Really pretty polish look, not sure on braking surface yet as the bike build is in progress. But I wanted a Japanese rim for a Fuji, 650b, and classic style so they fit the bill. Apparently I didn't write down my measurements, but they seemed to match the Pacenti Brevet width (I used the old rubber rim strips I'd got from Pacenti but didn't put on my Brevet build). I need to clean these up, they're a little more shiny and mirrored in person believe it or not.

https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/gb_r_b_pw.html

[Ryan Watson]

I have a stash of Velocity Synergies that should last at least as long as my legs :-)

Ryan 

On Jan 20, 2022, at 11:14, William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I may have a rim brake road wheelset to build in the near future, and as of 1/20/2022 a lot of the road 584 BSD rims that I like buying are not around.  What rims are you buying these days, that you are finding on the shelves?  I see Velocity A23s available for ~$100 which is decent.  Ideally I'd prefer a little more width and a little taller brake track.  

--

[etorg...@yahoo.com]

The weight weenie in me is sad that I can no longer get the Stans Ztr 355 650b rim brake rim that came in at about, well, 355 grams.  These did develop cracks at the eyelets, however.  (Having said that, my commuter still runs the generator hub with these rims clocking 5000 miles per year of mostly pavement, but often enough dirt routes.)

I too have an A23 rim I am using for a couple of years.  I think the BCD was the same as the Stans, so a no brainier.  (I irreparably damaged the Stan rim crashing on the Crusher in the Tushar so needed to swap out.) If I were to build up something new, I was seriously thinking of the Velocity Quill and the Belgium (plus?) although each of these is a little pricey.  I have no complaints with the A23.  Currently it is shod with the Umtanum Ridge (650b x 55mm) tire on my Monster Cross, being ridden rather hard on MTB Cross Country single track.  I don't think the relatively narrow rim is an issue even at 55mm. 

As has been said before, "back in the day" we ran (and I actually still do) Mavic x517s with tires up to 55mm (2.2") not uncommonly.  The 517s have an Internal width of 17mm!

Eli

In Albuquerque

[Ray Varella]

I had this very question myself and ended up with the Velocity Quills. 

They ticked all the boxes and supply chains being what they are, the price was manageable. 

Ray

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Ray Varella

IAABC Parrot Division

Supporting Member

[Dan Vee]

I’ve been using the Pacenti Brevets with no problems.  I believe the Crust rims will be available separately soon enough. 

-Dan

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[esoterica etc]

Bill, I just got an email update from Rene Herse saying that Pacenti Brevet rims will be back in stock in February (28, 32 and 36 hole).

 

I recently had a wheelset built by prowheelbuilder.com with 28h Brevet rims and I've been really happy with them so far- they look great and are nicely lightweight at 435g, and are 23mm external width. My extralight RH Babyshoe Pass tires come out to just over 40mm mounted with tubes. 

~Mark

On Jan 20, 2022, at 13:14, William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I may have a rim brake road wheelset to build in the near future, and as of 1/20/2022 a lot of the road 584 BSD rims that I like buying are not around.  What rims are you buying these days, that you are finding on the shelves?  I see Velocity A23s available for ~$100 which is decent.  Ideally I'd prefer a little more width and a little taller brake track.  

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[fordb...@gmail.com]

Plus one on the Pacenti Brevet rims. They're light, good looking and mine have held up well to off road abuse.

Ford

Ghent, NY

[JohnS]

Bill,

I'm riding a pair of HED Belgium + rims on my LB-Canti and am very happy with them. I got them nearly two years ago built up with WI T11 hubs for ~ $500, slightly used from a bike shop on E-Bay. They've been great! I ride them on the road and gravel roads, a few times when I was some what under-biked for the gravel road conditions. No issues with them at all, even with 28, flat bladed spokes. Unfortunately there on the expensive side at $185 each now.

John

[ThermionicScott]

If I had a time machine, I'd go back to ~2014 and stock up on a few more V1 Pacenti SL23 rims.  They were not the lightest 650B rims ever (about 420g), but you got a full-size brake track and the 26mm depth let you use shorter spokes, which saved a bit of weight.  At the time I got into these (late 2015), roadies were having problems with cracking in the low-spoke-count 700C versions, so I hesitated to sink too much money into extras.  And apparently it wasn't as popular with the 650B crowd, so Kirk blew out the last of his stock for cheap.  In the 5600 miles since, though, I've had no issues with cracking at all, and haven't read of any other people having trouble with the 650B version.  Perhaps it was just a high-pressure skinny-tire thing...

A 650B roll of the Forza (especially the asymmetric rear version) would be sweet.  I'm not holding my breath, since the market probably isn't big enough for that and the Velocity Quill...

As for what's available today:  I'm very curious to hear how these Crust rims do in the real world.  Do they have enough material to resist cracking?  Will the lack of eyelets make a difference in wheelbuilding or durability?  I really like the specs on their complete wheels, but hope they offer the rims separately at some point.  

Brevets seem to be holding up really well for people, so they would be my first choice if waiting a couple more weeks is acceptable.  (I have a couple in my basement, but they are earmarked for a build -- sorry!)

- Scott in Cedar Rapids

[William Lindsay]

Thanks for the responses.  There's several options:

HED Belgium C2 Plus.  I love these rims, and bought the last two 32 hole that Rene Herse had.  I need two more.  If somebody had 32 hole for sale, I'd consider buying them

Pacenti Brevet.  These look good.  I've subscribed for in-stock notification from Rene Herse

Crust.  I'll keep thinking about buying a wheelset.  If I knew if/when rims are going to be available and what they'll cost it would be helpful 

Pacenti SL23.  I actually have one of these.  Maybe I can find a singleton somewhere.  

A23.  Decent fall back

Quill.  Might be better width  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[bernard smith]

Another worth looking out for seems to be a little under the radar - Araya TX-310F comes in 650B. Found via this excellent resource which may be worth a consult:

https://supplelifeblog.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/650b-rimz/

I'm reading 11.6mm for the brake track. Gravelking Slicks in 42mm ran great, but I've dropped back to 38s because I had very little margin at the chainstays.

The profile's fairly classic/ double eyelet. Not the lightest (mine came in at ~510gm each in 36 holes, though listed as 475gm). They built up well & I've been really pleased with how they've gone, they haven't budged in the year or so since built. ERD 573 to the nipple head. There is a little more shape to the profile than Panceti Brevits. Grand Bois/ etc offerings, but it's subtle.

They did seem tricky to find though - some places would have them in 32H, others 36, but very few stockists outside of Japan. Sites in the Philippines & Indonesia had them, but none who'd export from there. It seems as though Araya kept going after the 80s yen crash, but just retained a focus in the asian market perhaps? Or perhaps this rim is just in a niche they're not really wanting to bother marketing.  

I got mine from Grand Bois - about 2/3 the price of their own equivalent 650B double eyelet rims, but even with shipping they landed at about the same as I've paid for 700c rims (Mavic A719 & Open Pros). Once I'd measured them to calculate spokes (ERD ~573mm to top of Sapim Polyax nipples) the whole world went into lockdowns - so I had two separate orders from the EU collapse on me & six months before I could get the spokes I was after & build them up!

here's one site with specs & stock:

https://alexscycle.com/products/araya-tx-310f-650b-clincher-rim

The decal looks hideous on most sites, but I was relieved when they turned up with a far more classic red/ gold Araya label. Which has faded in the sun, but oh well.

best regards,

Bernard

Paekākāriki, Aotearoa

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[Chris Cullum]

On Fri., Jan. 21, 2022, 12:16 ThermionicScott, <thermio...@gmail.com> wrote:

If I had a time machine, I'd go back to ~2014 and stock up on a few more V1 Pacenti SL23 rims.  They were not the lightest 650B rims ever (about 420g), but you got a full-size brake track and the 26mm depth let you use shorter spokes, which saved a bit of weight.  At the time I got into these (late 2015), roadies were having problems with cracking in the low-spoke-count 700C versions, so I hesitated to sink too much money into extras.  And apparently it wasn't as popular with the 650B crowd, so Kirk blew out the last of his stock for cheap.  In the 5600 miles since, though, I've had no issues with cracking at all, and haven't read of any other people having trouble with the 650B version.  Perhaps it was just a high-pressure skinny-tire thing...

No it wasn't. I had 2 SL23 crack badly in 650B 32h, paying close attention to spoke tension and running 42mm tires. Kirk sold them cheap because the product was defective and had a near 100% failure rate. That's why the new owners offered a "rim amnesty discount" on new rims. The Brevet and the Forza have been good ime. The PL23 also was a disaster however.

A 650B roll of the Forza (especially the asymmetric rear version) would be sweet.  I'm not holding my breath, since the market probably isn't big enough for that and the Velocity Quill...

As for what's available today:  I'm very curious to hear how these Crust rims do in the real world.  Do they have enough material to resist cracking?  Will the lack of eyelets make a difference in wheelbuilding or durability?  I really like the specs on their complete wheels, but hope they offer the rims separately at some point.  

Brevets seem to be holding up really well for people, so they would be my first choice if waiting a couple more weeks is acceptable.  (I have a couple in my basement, but they are earmarked for a build -- sorry!)

- Scott in Cedar Rapids

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 3:37:23 PM UTC-6 etorg...@yahoo.com wrote:

The weight weenie in me is sad that I can no longer get the Stans Ztr 355 650b rim brake rim that came in at about, well, 355 grams.  These did develop cracks at the eyelets, however.  (Having said that, my commuter still runs the generator hub with these rims clocking 5000 miles per year of mostly pavement, but often enough dirt routes.)

I too have an A23 rim I am using for a couple of years.  I think the BCD was the same as the Stans, so a no brainier.  (I irreparably damaged the Stan rim crashing on the Crusher in the Tushar so needed to swap out.) If I were to build up something new, I was seriously thinking of the Velocity Quill and the Belgium (plus?) although each of these is a little pricey.  I have no complaints with the A23.  Currently it is shod with the Umtanum Ridge (650b x 55mm) tire on my Monster Cross, being ridden rather hard on MTB Cross Country single track.  I don't think the relatively narrow rim is an issue even at 55mm. 

As has been said before, "back in the day" we ran (and I actually still do) Mavic x517s with tires up to 55mm (2.2") not uncommonly.  The 517s have an Internal width of 17mm!

Eli

In Albuquerque

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[William Lindsay]

Chris Cullum rather emphatically stated:

"I had 2 SL23 crack badly in 650B 32h, paying close attention to spoke tension and running 42mm tires"

Was is two, as in front and rear?  Or was it two rears?  When you say you paid close attention to spoke tension, do you mean Pacenti provided a max value and you paid close attention to go close to that value?  

My current application would be totally dishless.  Do you think that matters, or do you think it's a lousy rim across the board?

You state the Forza is OK.  Is that a 650B rim?  You state the Brevet is OK.  Is that something that can be bought from anyone in January 2022?

Thanks for the info.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[William Lindsay]

Adding to my own list of options, it looks like I can get 32 hole Papillion rims from Grand Bois.  I was thinking of buying some of their $30 latex tubes anyway, and my birthday is coming up.  Perhaps I'll treat myself.  

BL in EC

[Chris Cullum]

On Sun., Jan. 23, 2022, 21:59 William Lindsay, <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris Cullum rather emphatically stated:

"I had 2 SL23 crack badly in 650B 32h, paying close attention to spoke tension and running 42mm tires"

Was is two, as in front and rear?  Or was it two rears?  When you say you paid close attention to spoke tension, do you mean Pacenti provided a max value and you paid close attention to go close to that value?  

2 rears. Pacenti recommended max tension of 100 which I adhered to. 

My current application would be totally dishless.  Do you think that matters, or do you think it's a lousy rim across the board?

FTR the fronts were fine until the brake track wore out. I wear my front rims out fairly quickly because it rains a lot here. It's possible the rear would be OK in a dishless application. After being burned twice, one of which happened during a 1200k brevet, I would be a bit circumspect. It was a nice rim with a good sized brake track, built up nicely, tires seated well and was lightweight. It's Achilles heel was that the spoke bed was prone to cracking. 

You state the Forza is OK.  Is that a 650B rim? 

No but I think you know that. It's the direct replacement for the SL23 but only available in 700C. Asym, normal and disc version.

You state the Brevet is OK.  Is that something that can be bought from anyone in January 2022?

That I have no idea. Perhaps you do? If available it's a very good option.

Thanks for the info.  

No problem! Good luck! 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 8:32:56 PM UTC-8 Chris Cullum wrote:

On Fri., Jan. 21, 2022, 12:16 ThermionicScott, <thermio...@gmail.com> wrote:

If I had a time machine, I'd go back to ~2014 and stock up on a few more V1 Pacenti SL23 rims.  They were not the lightest 650B rims ever (about 420g), but you got a full-size brake track and the 26mm depth let you use shorter spokes, which saved a bit of weight.  At the time I got into these (late 2015), roadies were having problems with cracking in the low-spoke-count 700C versions, so I hesitated to sink too much money into extras.  And apparently it wasn't as popular with the 650B crowd, so Kirk blew out the last of his stock for cheap.  In the 5600 miles since, though, I've had no issues with cracking at all, and haven't read of any other people having trouble with the 650B version.  Perhaps it was just a high-pressure skinny-tire thing...

No it wasn't. I had 2 SL23 crack badly in 650B 32h, paying close attention to spoke tension and running 42mm tires. Kirk sold them cheap because the product was defective and had a near 100% failure rate. That's why the new owners offered a "rim amnesty discount" on new rims. The Brevet and the Forza have been good ime. The PL23 also was a disaster however.

A 650B roll of the Forza (especially the asymmetric rear version) would be sweet.  I'm not holding my breath, since the market probably isn't big enough for that and the Velocity Quill...

As for what's available today:  I'm very curious to hear how these Crust rims do in the real world.  Do they have enough material to resist cracking?  Will the lack of eyelets make a difference in wheelbuilding or durability?  I really like the specs on their complete wheels, but hope they offer the rims separately at some point.  

Brevets seem to be holding up really well for people, so they would be my first choice if waiting a couple more weeks is acceptable.  (I have a couple in my basement, but they are earmarked for a build -- sorry!)

- Scott in Cedar Rapids

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 3:37:23 PM UTC-6 etorg...@yahoo.com wrote:

The weight weenie in me is sad that I can no longer get the Stans Ztr 355 650b rim brake rim that came in at about, well, 355 grams.  These did develop cracks at the eyelets, however.  (Having said that, my commuter still runs the generator hub with these rims clocking 5000 miles per year of mostly pavement, but often enough dirt routes.)

I too have an A23 rim I am using for a couple of years.  I think the BCD was the same as the Stans, so a no brainier.  (I irreparably damaged the Stan rim crashing on the Crusher in the Tushar so needed to swap out.) If I were to build up something new, I was seriously thinking of the Velocity Quill and the Belgium (plus?) although each of these is a little pricey.  I have no complaints with the A23.  Currently it is shod with the Umtanum Ridge (650b x 55mm) tire on my Monster Cross, being ridden rather hard on MTB Cross Country single track.  I don't think the relatively narrow rim is an issue even at 55mm. 

As has been said before, "back in the day" we ran (and I actually still do) Mavic x517s with tires up to 55mm (2.2") not uncommonly.  The 517s have an Internal width of 17mm!

Eli

In Albuquerque

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[Chris Cullum]

On Sun., Jan. 23, 2022, 22:00 William Lindsay, <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Adding to my own list of options, it looks like I can get 32 hole Papillion rims from Grand Bois.

That's a decent option too, especially if the Brevet is not available currently. It weighs a bit more than the Brevet and it isn't tubeless compatible but that may not be a factor as you mention latex tubes.

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[ericni...@gmail.com]

Having built and worn out many Velocity A23s and Pacenti Brevets, which are both fine rims, my current favorite is the Velocity Quill. Slightly wider, significantly stiffer radially, they build up straight and even. When you factor in the deeper section which takes a shorter spoke, they are also lighter than the A23 and Brevet. They are also currently in stock.

Eric in NH

[wg ws]

While I think the Velocity Quills are, as Eric said, a fine rim, there is one minor difference with the Brevets - the brake track on the Brevets is a couple of mm's wider than the Quills'. This lets me run 60 mm tires on my canti Seven Expat. With the Quills maybe I could make it work so that the brake pads didn't rub the tire, but I was glad I didn't have to try. 

But, as Eric also pointed out, the Brevets are out of stock (although it does look like the 28 h version may be available).

geoff s

arlington, ma

[Pat Smith]

I bit the bullet and paid for a pair of the Velo Orange Voyager rims. They look beautiful but I haven't had a chance to lace them up. Heavier than the Quill and Brevet but this is for a dynamo wheelset on my touring/townie bike.

Pat, DC

[Andy G]

I had 6 or more cracks in the rear rim after a few thousand miles, but it was before the amnesty program so I got a slight discount. I had bought the rims at $50 each though, but it was just before the rim cracking issue was apparent. I think Pacenti was trying to offload the junk to try to recoup costs, which is a bit infuriating. My front rim still has no cracks, but I have a replacement Brevet and spokes ready to swap in. I was about 165lb during the time my rear rim cracked. I definitely wouldn't try to find old ones to savage at this point.

[ThermionicScott]

Rats!  Thank you for the correction and info, Chris.

- Scott in Cedar Rapids

[William Lindsay]

Earlier I listed one of my options would be to buy a Crust Rim-brake wheelset.  Now I notice they have a disc-brake wheelset at the same $525 price point.  It looks like a sensational deal, and it comes all-silver.  This wasn't something I needed, but dang, it's a strong offering.  They appear to be crushing it (Crusting it?):   Crust Disc Brake Wheelsets – Crust Bikes

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 2:24:04 PM UTC-8 William Lindsay wrote:

[Chris Cullum]

On Tue., Jan. 25, 2022, 09:54 William Lindsay, <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Earlier I listed one of my options would be to buy a Crust Rim-brake wheelset.  Now I notice they have a disc-brake wheelset at the same $525 price point.  It looks like a sensational deal, and it comes all-silver.  This wasn't something I needed, but dang, it's a strong offering.  They appear to be crushing it (Crusting it?):   Crust Disc Brake Wheelsets – Crust Bikes

Wow. $525 for a dynamo disc Wheelsets is a good deal with those specs. >1800g for said wheelset is very respectable as well. 

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[David Hays]

I just picked up a Brevet 28 spoke wheel set direct from Pacenti but seriously considered the wheel set Crust is offering with the dynamo.

Has anyone here tried it? What light are they using with it?

I’ve purchased a number of Pacenti 650B wheel sets and have never had a problem.

David Hays

Buffalo, New York  

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[Evan Estern]

My Quill rims have been rock solid for over 5k miles, including 2 D2R2s.

[Jim Bronson]

Well, that was an interesting post about your affinity for the SL23.

I have a pair of these 650B SL23's that I have been afraid to use after I found out about the cracking issue, especially considering my weight gain over the last few years into the 300+ range.  I'm 6'7" so it's not the end of the world for me personally but I felt better in the 250-270 range.  Was 255 the last time I did a 1000K rando ride in 2014, for example.

Maybe the cracking is not such an issue after all with the 650B version of the SL23 from what you said, but still I think my wife would appreciate me selling them.  We are considering moving to take advantage of the runup in house prices and I probably won't have a 3 car garage anymore to store all my bike crap (my wife's definition) / stuff or stash (my definition).  It's fantastic to have a whole garage bay for your bikes, tools and parts stash but I can't really justify the cost again, it's an expensive add-on whether you're building new or buying resale.  Probably cheaper to just get a shed if one has a big enough backyard.

Anyway, now that I have belabored the point, I would entertain an offer for the SL23's if someone wanted to buy them.  I'm not going to give them away but I would entertain a reasonable offer.

How about $120 for the pair and buyer pays actual shipping?  That's probably considerably less than what you could buy a rim brake 650B for these days through most channels.

-Jim

Leander, TX

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[John Hawrylak]

Velocity Atlas (584), wide enough, and strong enough.  Ordered in June 2021 and had to wait until Sept 2021 for them, reportedly the Velocity hold up was due to polishing.  The LBS said they built up very well.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 1:14:30 PM UTC-5 tape...@gmail.com wrote:

I may have a rim brake road wheelset to build in the near future, and as of 1/20/2022 a lot of the road 584 BSD rims that I like buying are not around.  What rims are you buying these days, that you are finding on the shelves?  I see Velocity A23s available for ~$100 which is decent.  Ideally I'd prefer a little more width and a little taller brake track.  

I'm seriously considering springing for one (or two) of the Crust wheelsets.  I wish that rim was available to try out separately.  I may end up disassembling a wheelset and using the pieces in various spots in my stable.  

What else should I consider for a light, 32 hole rim brake 584 rim that is available?

[Harald Kliems]

I recently built up a front wheel with the Hed Belgium Plus, and it was a joy. More money than what I would have liked, but they were the only ones available with 28 holes at that point.

RE the SL-23s: I'm one of those folks whose SL-23s have been unproblematic, and I'm certainly not the lightest rider. So when I had an old Synergy wheel crack, I rebuilt the wheel with one of the two SL23 rims I still had sitting around from the 40-dollar-a-pop sale. http://ride-or-pie.blogspot.com/2021/04/the-cracking-bike-rim-from-one-cracker.html

 Harald in Madison (WI)

[Michael Mann]

I just finished building my third wheelset with HED Belgium/Belgium + rims and I concur that they are a joy to build, as well as excellent riding, durable, and light. I've also found them to be among the easiest rims to set up tubeless that I've had experience with. I've been able to install with just a floor pump, never had a tire blow off these rims, and never had that annoying inability to get the tire to seat round.

Mike M

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Michael Mann

[jeff.b...@gmail.com]

Bill, 

I bought Pacenti Brevet rims through Pro Wheel Builder. Cheaper than RH and very personable staff with great email support. I had to email them to check stock & they were very straight forward about pre-existing pre-orders, how many were in their container, when I should order to get in on the next shipment and when to expect the rims to ship.

That being said, I haven't built the wheels yet, but Ive taken the measurements to run them with a Kasi Dynamo & Dura Ace 7900 rear hub on a Norther Lyon. Probably planning on tires in the range of 38-42mm. 32 spokes as well.

My guess is that if they are good enough for Jan on his PBP Herse,  they should work for me in the Sacramento valley. I remember a post though saying that HED Belgium rims were lighter but didn't come in a 36 hole for his application.  

I had a Specialized Sequoia that I built with 650b HED Belgium rims because I've had great success with them on my Roadini, albeit 700c. Longest lasting true wheels, ;probably going on7 years with no broken spokes or major truing. The HED rims built up really easily on the Sequoia but I sold that bike so I do not have any. long lasting experience with HED 650b rims with 42mm tires.

[William Lindsay]

I just recently got a restock email from Rene Herse about the Pacenti Brevet rim.  I would have bought, but I wanted to use my Amex to get to a miles threshold.  I went over to Pro Wheel Builder and sure enough they were $20 cheaper per rim, and take Amex, so I bought a pair there.  

So now I'm a little bit better stocked for rims.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Jeff Bertolet in Raleigh, NC]

It was time to replace the SL23 rims as the brake track was wearing out. I went with the Quill, since the ERD is close enough to reuse spokes. Bummer the brake track is so narrow, it is hard to believe they wouldn't have fixed something like this by now. 

I also have a set of Brevet rims waiting for the Brevet wheelset brake tracks to wear out. If Brevets continue, they will probably be my default rim. I don't use high-offset (11speed) hubs, or low spoke counts, so don't really need the extra stiffness of the Quill.

I replaced one SL23 when the brake track got to 1.0mm, the other one I will wait and see if I can wear it out some more (maybe til ~0.8mm or less before replacing).

[njh...@gmail.com]

The last couple of pairs of 650B wheels I've built have been disc wheels, and as the rims don't wear from braking, I used carbon fibre rims. The first pair I built using Light Bicycle AR36 rims, and the second pair I used some MCFK rims that I managed to buy at a substantial discount - at their normal price, I would never have considered them. Both pairs were built using Sapim D-Light 2.0/1.65/2.0 spokes.

Nick

[Mark in Beacon]

Nick wrote: The last couple of pairs of 650B wheels I've built have been disc wheels, and as the rims don't wear from braking, I used carbon fibre rims.

The OP was looking to purchase rim brake rims, which are getting a bit scarce on the ground. Curious about your carbon build, though. I always think of them as having a few carbon spokes, not an array of butted metal spokes.  Does this affect the sound of the wheels, that echoey rumble? Or did they develop some kind of noise cancelling technology, a la RH knobby tires? What happens if you hit a pothole or something else that would deform or put a bump in an alloy rim? I really don't know anything about them, but I presume they are very light and build up like an alloy rim would?

Since I am building wheels for my recently arrived, sparkly Canti LB, I ordered the Pacenti rims from Pro Wheel about 2 weeks ago. I kind of almost didn't  believe they had them in stock, and for a solidly good every day price.

I like the classic box look of the Pacenti. I'm planning to use an 11-speed Suzue high flange rear hub that I got at an amazing blow out price a couple years back.

Jeff mentioned the high offset of 11 possibly being an issue, but with 650 size, 32-spoke, and high flange, I don't think that will be much of a factor--but I'm not a wheelbuilding guru by any means. Actually slightly more concerned about the cassette body being alloy, as I hear the metal cassettes can dig in and cause issues. I generally space out  7 or 8 cassettes on a 10-speed body, so I was planning to do something similar here. Will my low end cassettes cause a problem? Should I switch out to a steel body? I assume it will take a Shimano as a replacement.

I couldn't track down a matching high flange front, and most of the vintage ones are 36-hole, so I am going to build it with an SP hub from Velolumina, even though I won't be riding this bike much at night. Not much downside. Seems like it will make a classic-rimmed 650B wheelset more useful going forward. You never know.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 3/23/22 7:00 AM, Mark in Beacon wrote:

Nick wrote: The last couple of pairs of 650B wheels I've built have been disc wheels, and as the rims don't wear from braking, I used carbon fibre rims.

The OP was looking to purchase rim brake rims, which are getting a bit scarce on the ground.

Rene Herse has two excellent options, the Pacenti Brevet and the HED Belgium.  Veocity has the A23, the Cliffhanger and the Atlas.  That's five right off the top of my head.  I have the Brevets on my Weigle, and they're lovely rims.  There may not be a huge number of choices, but as long as there are a number of good choices that's sufficient, I think.  I'm personally familiar with the Brevet and the A23, and a friend has a set of HED Belgiums.  These are all superb choices.  By all accounts, the Atlas are great heavy duty rims too.

I just received a pair of Blunt SS disc brake 650B rims from Velocity.  They're for a new custom gravel e-bike scheduled for building on April 14th, an Alchemy eRonin. You might well refer to this as the Antichrist: carbon frame, hydraulic disc brakes, Shimano GRX DI2 shifters and 1x11 drive train, and Fazua e-assist motor.  It also features a carbon seat post, stem and handlebars.  Except for the fact that it's a hand made custom, you might well refer to this a full bodied embrace of the Dark Side.  No half-measures here!  Aluminum rims, though. 

Wheels in the current supply environment proved a real challenge.  For complete bikes, Alchemy provides a choice of several build groups: Shimano GRX DI2, SRAM Force XO1 Etap, Force XPLR, SRAM Red.  The wheels in all cases are Industry Nine 700C carbon, but I wanted 650B and I needed something with a weight limit high enough to accommodate a weight that has sadly grown substantially during my past year and a half of forced inactivity.  I found one, but then Alchemy received word that Industry Nine is running 22 weeks behind due to supply chain issues.  The Fulcrum Red wheel set Alchemy found has a 250 lb weight limit, but a perusal of the fine print revealed that is not rider weight, but rather rider plus bicycle plus luggage, and so inadequate.

I turned to my local builder, who had a set of White Industries thru-axle disc brake hubs in stock, a good thing because White Industries is also running a couple of months behind on orders due to supply chain issues.  They couldn't purchase rims because they shop he works out of was just purchased by Trek and any orders not received before the transition (which was last week) would be canceled, so I had to order the rims myself.  But it's working out for the best: the rims came last week, and I dropped them off yesterday, so they'll definitely be built in time; and the end result will be something I can be certain will be strong enough that I need not fear weight-overload related failures. 

[Patrick B. Smith]

I haven't tensioned them up yet but the "new" Velo Orange Voyager are very pretty. 

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[Mark in Beacon]

It's true that there are still options. I have a set of 650 A23 that I bought on close out a few years ago, and I had a set of the original SL23 Pacentis. My Clem L currently sports the lovely Atlas rims, and my Hubba has Cliffhangers. 

For some reason I thought the A23 in 650b were out of production. Looks like Carson City bike shop has them for $66.29 a piece

I was alluding not so much to the number of rim brake models still available, but the fact that they often seem to be out of stock. Perhaps that is true for all rim types in all sizes. But I do think rim brake rims are most vulnerable if manufacturers start to look at trimming offerings, or to where in the production schedule they get relegated.

I'm a fan of RH, but when a reputable wheel dealer is selling the Pacentis for $40 less a set, non-sale price, that's a big incentive. Plus I have done business with Pro Wheelbuilders in the past.

[daxo potato]

once one opens the Pandora's box of disc rims the selection is literally mind-blowing, but as mentioned this is a rim brake rim thread. i for one am appreciative of the mildly retro focus of this group (it is the 650b group, not the 27.5 group, no?) and likewise the smaller selection of rims available to us. i suffer from analysis-paralysis and the idea of having hundreds of rims to pick from, well that's just too much.

in addition to the fine rims mentioned here there are quite a few others that i hear about less if at all: Soma has or had a couple, the VO rims don't get discussed much, and velocity has a much broader range than is usually spoken of here (i have cliffhangers on our tandem, would've gotten the polished Atlas but $$). there is even the single wall weinmann 519 if you want to go really cheap ( i have a pair that I'll probably never build up, if you are interested and local)

@Chris Cullem, emphatically stated regarding the sl23's

" the product was defective and had a near 100% failure rate."   I'm curious how you derived this information. there is certainly a lot of anecdotal information from list members who haven't had failures, including myself. i have a black set i built up as a fixed gear set a few years ago, though they haven't seen regular use until this year. so far so good, but the bad experiences reported by some make me wary to build up the other pair i have-maybe they will remain as spares in the event the current ones crack

dave "rim brakes" in NYC

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