SOMA Grand Randonneur vs Elephant National Forest Explorer

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can anyone give some first hand comparisons and/or opinions on the SOMA Grand Randonneur vs the Elephant National Forest Explorer in the following contexts:

- used as a daily commuter (rough pavement) w/ rando rack and rando bag (and occasional pannier or two on front low rider rack)

- used for weekend long road and (light) gravel rides w/ rando bag & rack

- used for occasional bike-camping/touring duty w/ rando bag & rack, small/front panniers on low rider racks, full frame bag, and bikepacking style seat bag. 

i know the Elephant NFE is made by hand one at a time and likely much higher quality, but is it worth the extra $800 for the frameset? 

would the SOMA frameset be too light-duty for the bike-camping/touring loads I described?

any other light-ish steel 650b bikes I should be looking at similar to those?

[Harry Travis]

On Sep 14, 2022, at 6:47 PM, Harry Travis <travis...@gmail.com> wrote:

Joshua:

You should say something about the load YOU put on the bike - your weight and strength. And the size frame you are interested in. You matter more with light frames than 10-15 lbs of close-coupled bag.

And: Close coupled, as I just assumed? I’m stunned by the dynamic twisting loads some people are hanging out, a la mode, high up and behind their seat post collars.

--

Harry P Travis

Portland, OR usa

15.7

On Sep 14, 2022, at 5:26 PM, -=- * -=- <joshuac...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[randal...@gmail.com]

I'm interested in this question as well. We seem to have quite a few people with NFE experience and V1/V2 Grand Randonneur but I don't believe anyone here has ridden the newer Soma Grand Randonneur. Happy to see an update if I'm wrong.

For the past few years I've been using a Soma Fog Cutter with their low-trail fork and 650bx48, for your first two use cases all the time. I'm not a big camper but I have had it loaded for a couple S24Os including one mixed terrain. It's been absolutely perfect, handles a regular rando load well and adding front panniers with overnight load was great too. Increased flop a bit but still felt lively and intuitive. So that would be a slightly stouter and 9/8" threadless option.

IMO Soma frames as relatively light in weight as well as spritely - for production frames - the overall bike + rider + load limit for the V3 Grand Randonneur is 250-270 lbs depending on size. That's fairly low in an ISO-centric disc brake world. 

I think the Crust Lightning Bolt is a good option to consider as well.

Randy Daniels

Atlanta, GA

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Hi Harry, 

i'm about 150lb, i'd be looking at a size 52 Grand Randonneur or an NFE in size Medium, and when i'm fully loaded up for camping/touring my bike tends to look like this:

as mentioned before, most of the time i usually just have have that rando bag on there and maybe a front pannier (or two) depending on my grocery runs...

_jc

oakland, ca

[Justin, Oakland]

I’dlovetoseepicsoftheFogCutter

[Justin August]

I’d also love to use spaces? Unless I’m writing down Dillinger Four song titles. 

On Sep 15, 2022, at 9:38 AM, Justin, Oakland <justin...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’dlovetoseepicsoftheFogCutter

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[lj mangin]

I can give some info, but first to clarify my versions. My NFE is "semi-custom; stack of a large, reach of a medium. I purchased it from John in 2019. It seems that the idea was to max out the triangle size. The reach is typical for a medium, but stand over is higher than typical for a medium size. 

My Soma is the GR version 2.

I also have a Lightning Bolt. Did I mention that I love bikes and riding?

My NFE is probably more flexy than a typical medium. I have it set up rando style with a front rack, as are the other two. They all handle the front load nicely. I have done long gravel on all 3, and the are all capable. I have done overnight trips on the NFE and it handles the frame bag, rear bag, and front load well, but I do notice some flex. The handling is great. The Soma is the stiffest, and again v2. The Crust is a superb production frame, and I highly recommend it. It wants to go hard every time I get on it. 

So, all 3 are great commuter and gravel bikes. For the ones I have, the NFE and the Crust see more miles than the Soma V2.

If I can add more, please let me know.

John M in Loveland 

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[Michael Wong]

John, is the LB must be much more flexible than the NFE right (though I realize your cust dims might up the flex)? It's 7/4 std tubing while the NFE is 8/5 os so I'd assume so.

I find the NFE a bit stiffer than I'd like (so I'm guessing the GR is much stiffer still, since it's so much heavier). John's experience seems to bear this out. Which is ok with me, because I can put a rear load if I want. But for riding around I'd like the NFE to be a bit more comfortable. Though for me, the stock geometry is spot on.

Also, the GR high BB gives me pause. I can't see choosing over the NFE except to save money (which is totally fair).

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[lj mangin]

My NFE feels similarly flexy to my LB, but as mentioned, the dimensions of my NFE are a little different than stock. So, maybe a stock NFE in medium is a little bit stiffer than the LB; that would make sense to me. 

For the record, I am about 155 and just under 5'10.

John M 

[Chris Cullum]

On Thu., Sep. 15, 2022, 11:31 Michael Wong, <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

John, is the LB must be much more flexible than the NFE right (though I realize your cust dims might up the flex)? It's 7/4 std tubing while the NFE is 8/5 os so I'd assume so.

Do we know for sure that the Lightning Bolt is 7/4/7 std tubing? I can't find the spec, maybe it's in a blog post or instagram or YouTube or tiktok or coded message somewhere?

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[randal...@gmail.com]

I bet you've seen it before. I used to post quite a bit when this group was more active. The current iteration of my low-trail Fog Cutter is as a wet weather gravel race bike, given low-trail's preferable handling in sloppy conditions. I've had it out twice as such and it works great in the role - in addition to regular daily rider and solo gravel adventurer.

Here's a more classic build that I fielded a few questions for the builder during the parts gathering phase: https://imgur.com/4v6jkJH

They come out nice, curious to see if anyone goes for low-trailing the current blue iteration - or perhaps the disc V3 Grand is fulfilling enough.

Randy Daniels

Atlanta, GA

[lj mangin]

I do recall it being 747, from when I purchased mine approximately 2 years ago. I thought it said that on their website, so possibly the site has changed?

John M 

[randal...@gmail.com]

The last couple times the Crust tubing question came up I don't believe anyone provided a good source - probably because the spec changed a few times. Reed Kennedy's ultrasonic spreadsheet has the canti version listed as 7/5/7 and there's a post is this group that states larger sizes were/are 8/5/8. The bike definitely has a reputation for planing so important to remember that tube thickness is one part of the story. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XeS2nJhBPSDRbqgG1-F2VOI_vK1QZnZmysARDJWyGps/

[Michael Wong]

It's a good question. I've heard a number of citations of 7/4/7 and I also thought it used to be on their website.

But I can't find an official seeming reference now and I also can't find anything that says there's such thing as an 853 28.6x7/4/7 DT

[-=- * -=-]

so generally, would it be safe to say that the this would be the order of the aforementioned frames (in stock / non-custom geo) from "flexy" to "stiffer"?:

• Crust Lightning Bolt
• Elephant NFE
• Soma Grand Randonneur

Randall, that Fog Cutter looks great set up with that low-trail fork (i have the 700c canti version of that fork on my New Albion Privateer) - i hadn't previously considered that as a 650b steel rando/camper/commuter. where would you say that fits in with the frames above in terms of flex/stiffness and weight?

thanks for all the info/thoughts, y'all

_jc

oakland, ca

[Sean, PNW]

"...i'd be looking at a size 52 Grand Randonneur or an NFE in size Medium..."

Have you considered a medium Crust Romanceur?

I ask b/c it seems it would check most of your boxes and I've watched as this one has been on the Seattle CL w/some pretty nice parts for more than 3 weeks; you might be able to pick it up for an attractive price:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bop/d/seattle-crust-romanceur-medium/7525253737.html

[lj mangin]

Based on the frames I have, I think that sounds about right for the relative order.

John M 

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