Braking power – Tektro r559s VS Mafac Raids

[L DB]

Hello there,

I have currently installed  some Tektro r559 on my 650b conversion and the braking is OK...but not great. A few sudden stops during mythe last ride were very ...exciting to say the least. 

In the meanwhile I have found a couple of mafac raid, and I wonder if it is worth installing them (no brazing posts...yet)

Now the question is : who has a direct experience of the two different brakes? How do they compare?

If the mafac is substantially more powerful,  I may consider installing them, otherwise I will probably switch to 700c tyres.

Thanks,

Luca from France

[Ryan Witt]

I’ve had good luck with Tektro R559 on two different bikes, one heavy 650b and one relatively light 700c. I have good braking performance on both.

Possibly relevant factors:

- My pads are in the middle of the slots for both bikes, not at the far end of reach.

- The heavy 650b bike has Kool stop salmon road style pads on VO Diagonale rims. These pads work better stopping power in the wet than the kool stop MTB pads I first tried.

- The lighter 700c bike has stock Tektro pads on machined rims, and they work great, but rims are still new.

- I’m using Tektro’s own RL340 levers On both bikes, so the pull ratio may be matched to the brakes, plus, the levers themselves are long.

I’m currently restoring some Mafac Raids for a new build but don’t have experience using them yet. I’ll try and remember to send you a note when I finish.

Ryan 

On Jun 4, 2020, at 6:05 AM, L DB <luca...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[L DB]

I am already using Kool stop pads with campagnolo 10 Speed levers. I am near the bottom of the slots though

[Ryan Watson]

I have Tektro R556 on two bikes, and have used them on many others. As far as I can tell, the 556 and 559 are identical. 

I have brazed-on Raids on one bike. And I’ve used bolt-on in the past. 

As far as absolute braking power, they’re the same to me. I seek out steep, twisty mountain roads and definitely put them to the test. 

I use the same red Yokozuna “Mathauser” style pads on both. The original pads on both the Raids and Tektros are terrible in my opinion. Definitely upgrade the pads on your 559s before giving up on them. 

The Raids look really cool and have better clearances, but it’s a constant struggle to keep them quiet. They squeal horribly unless adjusted just right with a lot of toe-in.

The Tektros never make a sound and are easier to set up and adjust. 

Good luck!

Ryan

[Max]

All things equal, the Tektros will reduce parasitic cable flex relative to Raids. 

But a lot depends on where the pads sit in the slots, and which brake lever you're using. In my experience, much of the differences in the impression of these brakes comes from running the pads at the bottom of the slots vs. mid- or upper portion of the slot (due to fork design). I ran them on an older road frame with 700c rims, pads high in the slot, and they were great. I switched to 650b with pads low in the slot, and there was a loss of power and pads would ride up to the sidewall of the tire on some hard descents. 

On that latter point, my biggest beef with the 556/559 brakes has to do with the play in the pivots / bushings of the brake arms... I have set up 4 separate pairs of these calipers over the years, and on 2 of them there was excessive play, compared to say my Ultegra Tri-color set. There may be a way to tighten, so I may attempt that next time I'm trying them out. 

But regardless of the brake chosen, I recommend Shimano "aero" levers, particularly the "105" model from the single-pivot era, which seem to give a nice high mechanical advantage. When I run these with older single-pivot calipers (from the days immediately following descent from the trees, when grip strength was still high), the braking improves. Quality pad and holders are important also – Yokozuna holders with thinnish orange pads tends to work well, IME. Finally, you may want to take some wet sandpaper to the rims, in case they're some kind of dark anodized Campagnolo from the aforementioned ancient times... 

- Max "grip of steel, brakes of marshmallow" in A2 

[Luca De Battista]

Thanks. I am using compressionless outers and look stop salmon pads. They are a bit old so I can swap them for a newer pair that I have lying around.

My brake levers be are campagnolo veloce 10 speed, ultrashift.

[Collin]

I've had exceptionally good braking performance with the R559s using the following setup:

• Koolstop e-bike compound pads
• Pads are about mid-height in the slot
• TRP RRL brake levers (to a comment above, since they are the same company they probably design the brakes and levers to a similar cable pull)
• Super slick brake cables: Jagwire elite sealed brake housing. On this note, I have noticed a greater gain in the brake performance with cables and housing that are super slick rather than the compressionless variety.

Hope this helps a bit,

Collin in Sac

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[Greg Walton]

Max, I'm interested in the Yokozuna holders/shoes you are referring to - could you provide a link or photo?

Greg

Seattle

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[Steve Chan]

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 10:42 AM Collin <collinm...@gmail.com> wrote:

• Super slick brake cables: Jagwire elite sealed brake housing. On this note, I have noticed a greater gain in the brake performance with cables and housing that are super slick rather than the compressionless variety.

    It looks like for the "super slick" aspect of the Jagwire Road Elite vs Jagwire Pro Compressionless, the Road Elite uses an additional polymer coated brake cable. Maybe you can get the best of both worlds by using the Jagwire Pro Compressionless housing with the Road Elite brake cables.

https://jagwire.com/products/inner-wire/road-elite-ultra-slick-brake-inner-wire

[Max]

https://www.yokozunausa.com/shop/category/components-brakes-pads-shoes-715 

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[Collin]

That's what these do, albeit at a premium price:

https://jagwire.com/products/diy-cable-kits/2017road-elite-link-brake-kit

It has the slick liner, smooth cables, and the compressionless outer. I haven't tried them, mostly because the setup I have works well, but might be worth trying if you have the budget and still experience squishy/poor braking.

Collin

[Max]

... now that I look at it, I'm mighty puzzled at the fact that the old-fashioned looking ones cost more than twice what the newer-looking ones! is that just because the amount of the pad material is larger?.. 

[Evan Estern]

I can't compare them to Tektro 559s, but I use Mafac Raid brakes with 4 dot salmon Koolstop pads on my Norther Lyon 650b and the stopping power and modulation is excellent, up there the best brakes I've used on any bike. 

[L DB]

Well, I guess they sit on braze ons, mine won't .

[Ryan Witt]

Luca, I’m riding my 650b with the Tektro R559 today and realized the pads are lower on the arms than I said. So I guess it is possible to get good performance toward the end of the slot. The performance is much better with these smaller road pads.

I brake regularly with fairly heavy loads (60lbs in addition to rider and bike). Can easily skid but not lift the back wheel unloaded.

[Steve Chan]

   There is a difference between what I described (Pro Compressionless housing) and the road elite - the road elite is "low compression", and you can see that it is still spiral housing, albeit more firm, while the compressionless housing has lengthwise steel wires for additional stiffness.

   That being said, I don't know how much difference there is in the amount of compression.

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[Collin]

Ah, sorry about that! I haven't given the compression-less combo with the slick cable a try yet, but that would be a cheaper alternative to the "link" style cables that are $$$.

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[L DB]

Thanks Ryan.

Any amount of flex in the brake arms?

[L DB]

[Luca De Battista]

Yeah, then the problem lies probably in the caliper. I have two pairs of r559s on two bikes, one  silver with the pads halfway and one black with the pads low in the slots. 

The first performs ok even without koolstops, the second not so much.

I thought the problem lied in the pads placement, but this conversation made me realize that the black pair flexes much more than the silver one. 

Did I get a dud? Different runs with different quality standards?

Who knows...

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020, 08:17 Ryan Watson, <rswa...@me.com> wrote:

Not that I've noticed.

> On Jun 5, 2020, at 00:04, L DB <luca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Ryan.
>
> Any amount of flex in the brake arms?
>

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[Ryan Witt]

Luca, I now recall a loose arm issue with my second pair of R559s that I got used. You might try reassembling the mounting post bolt as shown here: http://www.kurtkaminer.com/tektro_nutted_r556.html

I wish I had found this page when I was mounting these brakes! Especially apart about that funny shaped nut being usable with a normal wrench...

That top pivot was key to the overall stiffness and was dangerously loose on my pair.

On Jun 5, 2020, at 2:41 AM, Luca De Battista <luca...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Luca De Battista]

Thanks! I will definitely double check my front brake

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Luca De Battista

[Bill M.]

Luca,

There have been several threads on this subject.  The common factor among those those complaining of poor performance with the Tektro calipers seems to be the use of Campagnolo levers.  I use the Tektro calipers with SRAM brifters and Swiss Stop blue pads and have fine braking performance.  I'm sure Tektro's own levers would work fine.  

I know a rider who complained about his Tektro brakes when he used them with a Campagnolo group, but is satisfied with them now that he uses Shimano.  He was happy with the Shimano standard-reach calipers with his Campagnolo levers, that might be an option for you is you can find a set.  I wonder if the Velo Orange Grand Cru calipers would be a better match for the Campagnolo levers but have never used them myself.

I have no experience with Mafac brakes.  

Good luck!

Bill

Stockton, CA

[Eric Daume]

I disagree, I’ve experienced lousy power from long reach Tekros with all kinds of levers: Shimano aero, Shimano non aero, Tektro, etc. 

Mtb brake levers work best, or really least bad. 

Eric

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[Ryan Witt]

FWIW, I was just able to lift the back wheel using Tektro RL340 levers on this 23lb bike with “endurance road” geometry and stock pads at this height:

On Jun 5, 2020, at 1:34 PM, Eric Daume <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

I disagree, I’ve experienced lousy power from long reach Tekros with all kinds of levers: Shimano aero, Shimano non aero, Tektro, etc. 

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[Sean, PNW]

Bill's advice on the use of Campy levers impacting the brakes' performance strikes me as sound.

As corroborating evidence to that line of thought, I recently bought a set of Paul Klampers for a project, admittedly an entirely different universe of brakes, however, Paul offers the Klampers with different length actuator arms so that they may be used by various brake levers and their correlating cable pulls.

They're available 3 lengths:

Short Pull

Long Pull

&

Campy Pull

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/brake-parts/klamper-actuator-arm-kit/

It seems to me that if Paul has gone to the trouble of developing and manufacturing a Klamper actuator arm specifically to address the difference in cable pull associated with Campy levers, those differences in pull length would impact other brakes as well.

[Alex I]

Great info, happy to be following. This is relevant information for me, as I use R559s with Shimano 105 9s brifters on my 650b. Regular cables/housing (current Dura Ace color kit if I recall). Braking is pretty darn good, pulled em hard today a few times after reading the first part of this thread, and no complaints at all. Note it's a lot better on the Pacenti Brevet rims with MSW than it was on the old Weinmann Zac 19 NMSW I had on there before. My pads are actually further down in the slot, but it is a different caliper (had to go nutted when I changed forks). So a number of variables changed. I also have a pair of Chorus 10s Ergos I was going to rebuild and try via Shimergo. If I get around to that anytime soon I'll post any subjective differences. I'll also try to check my older recessed front, and see if I can tell if either has more or less flex or the pivot doesn't seem snug, that's an interesting observation!

Alex, stopping short in CO

[Josiah Anderson]

I agree with Eric- I tried the 559s with all sorts of levers and the braking performance ranged from scary to barely passable. This was with Koolstop pads, not the terrible stock ones. Switching to Mafac Racers improved the braking significantly. I haven't used Raids, but I'd expect them to be similar. 

People often complain that Mafac centerpulls feel "mushy," but when properly adjusted, they never let the levers hit the bars (for me, with abnormally large and strong hands, riding down steep hills in the rain). The "mush" that people talk about is likely because of the high mechanical advantage, which is really a good thing. 

The Tektros, on the other hand, would let the levers bottom out on the bars, even when the pads hit the rim at the very beginning of the travel. My conclusion was that they were excessively flexible.

If the alternative is going back to 700c, I would definitely recommend trying the Raids first. I think you may find a significant improvement over the Tektros.

Josiah Anderson

Tacoma, WA

[Murray Love]

Agreed. I use RAIDs with the standard brake mounting bolt, with salmon pads close to the bottom of the slots, and they brake perfectly well with a small amount of lever travel. They've never come anywhere close to the bars.

I used some first-generation R556s (not sure if they ever modified them), and my wife still has a set on her Bleriot, and I was never impressed with them. The braking power is pretty unimpressive, and the return spring is so light that you need to have very low friction in the cables to prevent the levers from rattling. They may (or may not) have made running changes to the design since the early ones, but I have no experience with those.

Murray

Victoria, BC

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[Ryan Witt]

the return spring is so light that you need to have very low friction in the cables to prevent the levers from rattling

I think they actually have changed the spring strength considerably. Recent R559s have a pretty beefy spring, as my thumbs remember.

[Max]

Once again, for any given brake lever, a lot depends on the position of the pad in the slot... 

Pad high in the slot = more mechanical advantage (more "power") 

Pad low in the slot = less mechanical advantage (more caliper travel & rim clearance for a given amount of brake lever pull) 

The slots on these brake calipers are rather long, and if you examine the lever ratio, it can make for ~50% difference in required effort (my WAG, but I can measure). 

But also, do check for play in the arms. If the arm shifts enough to partially come off the rim, or applies the friction force non-uniformly, you'll get a perceived loss of power. 

- Max "Archimedes" in A2

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[Sean, PNW]

DB, with your set up already utilizing compressionless housing and salmon pads, I would recommend trying Ryan's suggestion of overhauling the calipers' pivots as well as swapping the levers for something other than Campy as Bill mentioned.

While the Raids have a very committed and loyal following, there seem to be an equally, if not larger group who have tried them and reported either underwhelming impressions or immensely difficult to correct brake squeal; I have never personally used them so am merely relaying what I've read and heard.

The 2 or 3 bikes I've built and ridden over the years w/556/559s have all been paired w/either Tektro road or FL750 levers and worked very well, regardless of minor differences in pad position, cable/housing, or pad brand/compounds.

All were smooth, amply powerful, and offered linear and predictable modulation, and I'm a bit obsessive in ensuring bikes I build and/or ride have solid strong brakes.

It's always interesting to hear how radically different other peoples' impressions are of seemingly the same product. I wish I knew whether to chalk it up to variances in production runs and quality, differences of set up or tuning, merely subjective tastes, some other unrecognized variable(s), or a combination of all the above.

That said, I do think there are some universal elements crucial to any brake working optimally, which taking individually may not make much difference, but when combined can drastically impact feel, power, and performance:

-Match the lever pull to caliper pull, too little or too much pull = poor braking

-Use compressionless housing, compression = poor braking

-Use slick cables, friction = poor braking

-The higher the pads are in the caliper arm the better, flex = poor braking

-Position the pads well, square and solid rim contact, often w/some toe in = the best braking

-Run thinner pads, thicker pads compress = poor braking

-Deglaze the pad surface w/sandpaper or file, less friction = poor braking

-Clean the rims' brake tracks, contamination = less friction = poor braking

-Clean, service, and lube caliper pivots, friction or slop = poor braking

I think often these small details can be forgotten or taken for granted, their importance was impressed upon me a while back when trying to dial in a set of cantis and someone suggested Mike Varley's, of Black Mountain Cycles, guide w/tips for making sure cantis are set up correctly, -https://blackmtncycles.com/get-the-most-out-of-your-canti-brake/

It's impressive how a series of minor and seemingly trivial adjustments can so substantially influence some brakes' performance.

[Lena Berg]

I like Sean's list of obsessive details to attend to get the most out of brakes. One more:

-Ensure the brake cable housing at the housing stop/cable hanger forms a continuous curve with the exposed inner cable.

A discontinuity at an articulating hanger might result in the hanger vibrating, squealing, and pulsing at the lever.

[Floyd Tiny]

On my '73 Raleigh Competition I had bolt on (no posts) Raids with brake pads near the bottom of the slot. I found them to be pretty bad. They had the original bushings, with orange pads (from RH) in the original shoes. I am either going to braze on posts or go with cantilevers for that bike.

FB in NY

[Floyd Tiny]

I forgot to add that the levers are Campapgnolo 10 speed (old style).

FB in NY

[satanas]

When people make comments about brands of brake levers this isn't (IMO) at all helpful unless they specify *exactly* which models they're referring to. It's probable that almost all brands have had varying cable travel and mechanical advantage over time; that's certainly true of Shimano, and I expect Campagnolo as well. Since AFAIK there's not any database with actual, objective measurements out there, and since neither I nor anyone else has seen or measured everything it is useful if people specify what they're referring to.

Re Paul Klamper disc calipers: Yes, there are now three actuator arm lengths. I suspect the standard road arm was designed for current 7900+ Shimano STI levers, which have longer cable pull and lower MA than older Shimano levers. The long pull option is non-controversial since Shimano established this standard with V-brakes in the 90s, and most people have adhered to it. The "Campagnolo" arms are presumably intended to match the v3 Ergopower levers, which have higher MA than current Shimano; v2 Ergos should be very similar, lever shape excepted, since I don't think the calipers which match v2 and v3 levers are different in any significant way.

If you're going to pair Klampers with some other non-V-brake drop bar levers then either the road or Campagnolo actuator arms might work, but which ones might be best will depend in the brake feel desired and the MA of the particular levers used; ideally one would try both arms. This also applies to matching levers with rim brake calipers; some trial and error when using parts not designed together would seem to be almost inevitable.

Later,
Stephen

[Ryan Watson]

> On Jun 8, 2020, at 19:25, satanas <nsc.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> When people make comments about brands of brake levers this isn't (IMO) at all helpful unless they specify *exactly* which models they're referring to.

I've had excellent braking with both Tektro R556 and MAFAC Raids using the following levers:

Cane Creek SCR-5
Tektro R200
(I think these two are identical other than the name)

And Shimano 7400 STI levers.

Ryan

[satanas]

Thanks Ryan. As far as I can tell, the 7400 STI levers have effectively the same brake fuction as do the following:

1. Shimano 7 & 8 speed brake levers from 105SC onwards, including the current R400
2. All road STI levers with exposed gear cables, with the possible exception of recent low-end 8/9 speed ones; decoding Shimano's brake-speak is confusing
3. However, all of the recent 10 & 11 speed STI levers with hidden gear cables (starting with Dura-Ace 7900) use the more recent longer cable pull and lower MA; this is compensated for in the matching calipers. This can make braking power significantly and noticeably lower when used with older calipers, but probably helps with mechanical road discs.

Re 2 & 3 above: I don't know what Shimano have done with the recent Sora or Claris stuff, so good luck with those.

Later,
Stephen

[L DB]

After some research, some more context.

From the smallest to the highest cable pull:

1. Campagnolo 

1. SRAM

1. Shimano SLR/super SLR  everything from  the latest 80s : 7 speed to  8, 9, and 10 speed shifters with external cables*

2. Shimano super SLR new 10 speed shifters with internal shifter cables

3. Shimano super SLR EVO. 11 speed shifters 

* those three seems to share the same cable pull ratio...

The main difference between Campagnolo and old shimano seems to lie in the brake actuation : Campagnolo is progressive, so the harder you pull, the harder is squeezes 

Shimano is degressive, so the harder you pull, the less is squeezes

Now, I wonder how all this fit together and how a progressive or degressive cable actuation can in practice influence brak performance...

--

Luca De Battista

[satanas]

Please note that AFAIK the difference between "New Super SLR" and "SLR Evo" isn't in the cable pull or levers but rather in the brake calipers. The former use the v1 style dual-pivot calipers, while the latter are what is sometimes referred to as "centrepull" (v2) dual-pivot calipers. The former have more lateral clearance while the latter have a bit more reach (51 versus 49mm) and thus potentially more vertical clearance. (Personally, I like the 7403 and 7800 brakes better than the more recent ones.)

In practice, most relatively modern levers and calipers *except* Shimano 7900+ should be compatible, but YMMV. This comment does not apply to everything pre about 1990, and certainly does not apply to Mafac or Universal levers (which are outliers).

Later,
Stephen

[woode...@yahoo.com]

I'm gathering parts to replicate this set up and was wondering which Kool Stop E-bike Pads to use with Tektro R559 calipers? The ones with holders are listed a  "V" brake pads and I remember haveing problems trying to use "V" brake pads with canties a while back. Thanks

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 1:42:52 PM UTC-4 collinm...@gmail.com wrote:

I've had exceptionally good braking performance with the R559s using the following setup:

• Koolstop e-bike compound pads
• Pads are about mid-height in the slot
• TRP RRL brake levers (to a comment above, since they are the same company they probably design the brakes and levers to a similar cable pull)

• Super slick brake cables: Jagwire elite sealed brake housing. On this note, I have noticed a greater gain in the brake performance with cables and housing that are super slick rather than the compressionless variety.

Hope this helps a bit,

Collin in Sac

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 10:26:48 AM UTC-7, Luca De Battista wrote:

Thanks. I am using compressionless outers and look stop salmon pads. They are a bit old so I can swap them for a newer pair that I have lying around.

My brake levers be are campagnolo veloce 10 speed, ultrashift.

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020, 16:12 Ryan Watson, <rswa...@me.com> wrote:

I have Tektro R556 on two bikes, and have used them on many others. As far as I can tell, the 556 and 559 are identical. 

I have brazed-on Raids on one bike. And I’ve used bolt-on in the past. 

As far as absolute braking power, they’re the same to me. I seek out steep, twisty mountain roads and definitely put them to the test. 

I use the same red Yokozuna “Mathauser” style pads on both. The original pads on both the Raids and Tektros are terrible in my opinion. Definitely upgrade the pads on your 559s before giving up on them. 

The Raids look really cool and have better clearances, but it’s a constant struggle to keep them quiet. They squeal horribly unless adjusted just right with a lot of toe-in.

The Tektros never make a sound and are easier to set up and adjust. 

Good luck!

Ryan

On Jun 4, 2020, at 04:05, L DB <luca...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello there,

I have currently installed  some Tektro r559 on my 650b conversion and the braking is OK...but not great. A few sudden stops during mythe last ride were very ...exciting to say the least. 

In the meanwhile I have found a couple of mafac raid, and I wonder if it is worth installing them (no brazing posts...yet)

Now the question is : who has a direct experience of the two different brakes? How do they compare?

If the mafac is substantially more powerful,  I may consider installing them, otherwise I will probably switch to 700c tyres.

Thanks,

Luca from France

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[Brad]

I have used Mafac Raids on two bikes without braze ons.  I am very happy with the result.  When paired with a Tektro or Cane Creek lever they are very very nice.  It takes a lot of force to bend the backing plate .  If you have both you could install the Mafac Raid on the front and the R559 on the rear.   The rear gets less force on it and the cable run is more of a challenge for a center pull.

[Bruce Herbitter]

I have exactly this set up on one of my bikes.  The front has the Mafac center pull and the rear has the Tektro. Tektro levers. The centerpull stops very well. The wheel has a Velocity Synergy rim.

[dane...@gmail.com]

Similar question here to this, for someone in an aesthetic conundrum.  

Ill be getting a custom fixed gear/single speed all roady/rando style bike soon.  Will mostly be ridden fixed (both brakeless and with a front brake).

but I would like to spec it with a rear brake mount for possible single speed coasting at some point in future just incase...

Basically I'd like it too look clean when riding brakeless/with just front brake and for that reason alone was leaning towards Tektro 559s.... but anyone who has experience with both the tektros and a braze on mounted Raid/Rene Herse/Paul center pull feel that I may regret the decision in the braking performance department in the long run?  Should I just get over aesthetics of protruding braze on posts when not running the brake(s) or is the performance somewhat comparable?  

Ill obviously be talking it over with the builder too but figured I'd ask around. 

Thanks

-DAn

[Ryan Witt]

I just converted the SS Lightning Bolt (maybe relevant to you?) from brakeless to braked and had issues with Mafac Raid flexing with the big Mafac style pads from RH. My rims braking surface is fairly narrow, so there wasn’t much margin.

Might have been able to fix the issue with kool stop thinline pads, but I ended up having issues fitting the bag I wanted with the RAIDs.

So, I switched to r559 in the front and the braking power has been sufficient. Since I also have my legs, I’ve had no issues. I also tried r559 in the back but it only reaches if the wheel is slammed very far forward. With my chain length, it doesn’t have enough margin, so I’m going to switch to RAID or possibly the Dia-Compe 750 for the back. You’ll need about 75mm of reach to be safe (if we’re talking about the same bike).

Ryan

[Dan Vee]

Hey

Thanks for the info Ryan. Yah I currently have the same bike but I’m talking about a custom frame I’ll be getting that I’m wondering if I should spec brazedon posts for center pulls(rene Herse/raid) or just stick with the tektro 559 brake mounting to keep it cleaner looking when not running a brake/brakes. 

[Ford Bailey]

I had complained about the Mafac Raids on my Raleigh Competition. They were mounted without braze ons and I used the old fashioned pad holders with Kool Stop pads from RH.

When I built up another Raleigh last summer I used the new style Kool Stop pads and the results were night and day. My Raleigh Gran Sport stops as well as any bike I've ridden now. Only things changed were the pads- and the wheels.

So I take back what I said earlier about the Raid brakes.

Ford in Ghent, NY

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[woode...@yahoo.com]

Couple  questions:

!.  Where do Dia-compe 750's fall on the scale between Tektro''s  and Raid's?

 2. How do  traditional external cable brake levers compare to Aero levers for braking power? 

I was planning to use late  80's Shimano traditional levers with Tektro' 559's, but could use Tektro aero levers if that  was optimum for function over form.  

[Stephen Poole]

That's 5 gratuitous apostrophes plus a set of quotation marks in one post. The Apostrophe Police will be coming for you at midnight.

Be afraid, be very afraid...

Later,

Stephen

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/650b/d484395d-d204-4538-b4e2-a649591caff9n%40googlegroups.com.

[David Cummings]

You will need cable hangers for RAIDS or Dia Compe 750’s. That will make swapping brakes in and out more of a pain. Brazed on studs will not look clean. I am one of the people who have had good luck with 559s - they are dead simple to swap in and set up. That would be my choice in your situation. It would also be very simple for your builder to place the brake bridge such that your frame would work with 559s in the rear as well as up front. 

David in MT

[woode...@yahoo.com]

One more tangential: mispunctuated question:   Does any one have experience with  CLB Demi Balloon Racers? I've got  a couple of NOS sets with  Guidonnet levers that I've never tried on a bike. I think they have more than 80mm of reach. 

[Dan Vee]

Thanks David. Yeah I think your right seems like the way to go.

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