Front racks that don't sit far above a 650b tire?

[Patrick B. Smith]

I've been using my Rawland front rack in combination with a front rando bag for a while now, and I really like the design and build. However, on top of my 650b x 47 tires + fenders it still sits more than 2" higher than it needs to. I'm using a rather large rando bag so this causes it to sit higher than my handlebars. I don't see any practical way of lowering the rack height with the way the Rawland is constructed, and I'm wondering if there are other off-the-shelf front racks out there that sit lower or are designed for 650b tires/wheels. It looks like the offerings from Nitto, Soma, and VO are all fairly standard in design and likely don't sit any lower.

Thoughts?

Pat in DC  

[Wilson Wilson]

Pat, an easy way out if you have the welded version is to cut the legs off. Then go over to Bicyclespace and ask for rack struts and mounts. Get the longest ones you need and a tubing cutter. If you can wait, I will be back in DC in a week or so for a day or two to help you out. The reason I mention that bike shop is I know they sell Tubus and other touring type racks, so they are likely to have quality struts over ordering online and painful shipping times. Velo Orange, I believe, has struts and mounts as well.

Wilson

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 12:40:38 PM UTC-5 randal...@gmail.com wrote:

It has adjustable stays right? I have the rawland rando rack and I lowered it with a DIY steel-plate drop bolt. Looks a little busy but works fine. My research suggested 1x 2.5mm plate would have been fine but I did 2x. It's no less stiff than the stock mounting. I suspect you could bridge a 2" gap no problem with the same set-up. I've got a little more than 10k miles on it with no small amount of gravel and singletrack and it's been perfect.

Not necessarily the answer you were looking for, I suppose, but something to think about.

https://drandalls.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/img_4413.jpg

[Michael Mann]

You don't say whether you have mid-fork braze-ons. If you do, the Nitto M-1 (Mark's Rack) that Rivendell sells (currently out of stock) will go as low as you want it to go. I have one on my 650b Sam Hillborne and just had to raise it last night as the front light tab was contacting the fender when I rode rough stuff.

https://www.rivbike.com/products/nitto-marks-rack-m1-20108

I also just got a Velo Orange Flat Pack Rack that's going to go on my Black Mountain 650b Road+. I suspect (but don't know yet) it will go as low as you want as well, especially if you were to flip the point that mounts to the fork crown.

https://velo-orange.com/products/flat-pack-randonneur-rack

Mike M

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Michael Mann

[Patrick B. Smith]

Thanks Mike. I also have the BMC Road+ with mid fork/marks rack brazeons. Looking at the Marks rack photos it always looks like there's a good chunk of space between the tire and the bottom of the rack. 

Id be real interested in how that VO flat pack rack works for you. Very few reviews of those out there.

Pat in DC

[Michael Mann]

"Id be real interested in how that VO flat pack rack works for you. Very few reviews of those out there."

Russ did a review on Path Less Pedaled awhile ago, but doesn't really touch on clearance. He mounted the fork rod upside down and it looks pretty low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1anFvCSoV2M

[Brad]

A couple of caveats about the Nitto M-1.  It's height above the tire is controlled by the diving board.

If you create your own attachment for that function and affix it either underneath the brake (if not a canti) or underneath the fork you can get lower.

A second caveat is that Nitto uses a 7mm aluminum strut (which is the same size as the stud on a canti or mafac brake pad).   Did I say wiggly? 

The Mark's rack implementation doubles the struts so they ought to wiggle less. 

I think it would be nice to be able to buy a 7mm steel strut for Nitto racks.  It would be a problem solver.

This is a problem that has had my attention for a couple of years since the TA Mafac racks seemed too small.  They aren't way up in the air.

[pcb....@gmail.com]

Surly makes/sells rack struts that have their own clever rack-side mounting hardware that provides a fair amount of flexibility for adding struts/rigidity. They ain't cheap, but they can come in handy.

https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126224083

Whether front or rear, when I do racks I prefer them as low and as rigid as possible. Front racks can be more persnickety than rears, especially the bigger ones. I used a couple pairs of the Surlys to stiffen up a VO Porteur Rack on an Ocean City Rambler. The thin stamped steel l-bracket supplied with the VO rack is pretty seriously inadequate and flexy, especially given the size/weight of the rack. The Rambler fortunately had both fork crown and mid-blade rack mounts, so I used both, and the VO rack has lots of tubes for strut attachment. The Rambler rambled on to another owner some years back, but I still have receipts. If I wasn't using fenders I'd have gone one hole lower:

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

[pcb....@gmail.com]

Ooops, apologies to Rob, Ocean _AIR_ Cycles...

PB

[Michael Mann]

I too had an Ocean Air Rambler I put 10's of thousands of miles on before it broke. I always rode it with a front rack - the Marks's rack on my Riv was originally on the Rambler in a different configuration. I also ran it for a long time with a Nitto Campee. 

Your picture illustrates one of the problems with emphasizing stiffness in a front rack. IF fork flexibility and springiness is important to you, a stiff rack - especially one mounted at the dropouts and fork crown AND mid-point braze-ons, essentially braces your fork and works to prevent fork flex. Depending on how I set my racks up, I noticed it affecting the handling of the Rambler which had an overbuilt and in my opinion too-stiff fork (Zen Fab Ramblers did anyway. The few Bantam and Page Street Ramblers that were produced I assume had lighter forks since I know what Bob K and Chris Igleheart usually turn out.)

Even on disc brake forks I try to avoid mounting a rack that attaches to the dropouts since I don't feel the need to further brace against fork flex.

Mike M

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[Pat Smith]

Thanks for the replies everyone, and interesting solution you came up with for your Rawland , Randal. (though it looks like you deleted your post?). I'd be interested in buying a set of that hardware off you if you have a spare.

Wilson, thanks for the BicycleSpace suggestion. They are my go to shop as I live nearby and used to have a friend who worked at their old K St location. Actually hoping to drop off a frame tomorrow to have it cold set, maybe I can spitball some ideas with them. Though my current Rawland rack has adjustable struts, it has a fixed fork crown attachment as shown in my photo. I suspect someone with the right tools could either heat and bend that fixed attachment or cut it off and weld a new one on, but at that rate I'm probably better off just buying a new rack that sits lower.

It seems designs with the "diving board" fork crown attachment can be made to sit lower. I guess I'll keep exploring those options as none really seem to stand out as they are all likely made with large 700c tire clearance in mind. 

Pat in DC

[William Lindsay]

On my Black Mountain Road+ I'm using a Rene Herse UD-1.  I measure 20mm from the leather washer on the fender attachment lug to the 650x48 tire, which I consider pretty ideal fender clearance.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick B. Smith]

Thanks Bill. That does sit a fair amount lower. 

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[Erik Jansen]

For a long time, I had a Nitto M18 mounted to mid-blade eyelets and then bolted directly to the fender for the third mounting position, and that was it. Worked a dream, ran heavy loads with no problem. Just put a long strip of leather between the rack and the fender and drilled through. It was as low as you can possibly go.

I just took fenders off and bought like a $10 kit of cheap alloy fender mounting stays and bent one to work with the rack low. Again, the struts are taking all the weight, the alloy stay is just stabilizing the rack so it doesn't tip forward or backwards it doesn't need to be a particularly strong piece of metal unless you're running something like a porter-rack load.

[Patrick B. Smith]

So you didn't even attach it to the fork crown? Interesting!

Pat in DC

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[Erik Jansen]

Nope. It was a stainless Berthoud fender bolted to the threaded eyelet under the fork crown, I just let the fender act as the stay.

[Yellowsheep]

Hi Pat,  A little late but for my 650b, I'm using a Nitto F20 Campee front rack.  This rack has removable low rider attachments.  The bottom of the rack sits 15 cm above my 650b x 2" tires.  I'm still waiting (6 months) for Berthoud fenders to be back in stock but clearance should not be an issue.

This Nitto rack is made for 26" mtn bikes.  The measurement for the rack mount hole (beside axle) to the bottom of the top rack is 36 cm.

 

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 12:37:31 PM UTC-4 pbsm...@gmail.com wrote:

[David Pertuz]

There are high rider racks, and then there’s a rack sitting 15cm above the wheel :)

David

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 7, 2021, at 1:15 PM, Yellowsheep <yellow...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Pat,  A little late but for my 650b, I'm using a Nitto F20 Campee front rack.  This rack has removable low rider attachments.  The bottom of the rack sits 15 cm above my 650b x 2" tires.  I'm still waiting (6 months) for Berthoud fenders to be back in stock but clearance should not be an issue.

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[Andrew Demack]

Hey Pat

I had exactly the same issue with the Rawland Rando rack on a 650B build. Sounds extreme but I found a local welder who cut off the central strut and re-welded it for me. Think he charged me $40.

--Andrew in Brisbane.

[Yellowsheep]

Measures closer than it looks:

[Pat Smith]

Thanks all. On my 650b BMC Road+ I had a welder re weld the Rawland rack strut. On my 650b Jamis Aurora Elite I bought the VO campeur rack that has multiple mounting heights and that fit perfect. 

[Pat Smith]

And the BMC. Still need to paint