Best options for rim-brake 650B rims these days?

[Murray Love]

So I was cleaning the rims on one of my bikes yesterday while installing new tires, and found this somewhat alarming. These are Velocity Synergies I built in 2006 or so:

This is only the worst of several such cracks on this rear wheel, but the only one that has a crack in the braking surface. They've had a good life, but I somehow think their time is up. I won't be too sorry to see them go, given the difficulty of getting tires mounted straight on them. 

So what are the best options in 650B rims these days? Requirements: Rim brake, 32H, silver, and not particularly heavy-duty.

Murray

Victoria, BC

[Ian A]

Murray

C&L Cycles in Montreal have a few options, but the CR18 in polished 650b are a superb economical option and free shipping in Canada. https://www.clcycle.ca/en/jante-rim-cr18-650b.html

ERD is likely to be quite different from the Synergy rims, but I notice C&L also have Velocity Dyads on the website. I have found Mariposa to be good for RH tires. Might be worth checking their rim stock too.

I bought a pair of the polished CR18 from C&L and Hetres mount easily and well on them. 

C&L do sell out of the CR18 rims quickly and have to wait for a special order to get them again. Might be worth buying a couple of spares if you decide on those particular rims.

IanA KitimatBC

[Andy G]

I got a Velocity A23 from Treefortbikes for $70 shipped recently. The spokes weren't the same length so I still need to order those, so I haven't ridden it yet but I never had issues with the many other Velocity rims.

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[Murray Love]

Andy, the CR18s look like just what I was looking for. I should have mentioned that, being in Canada, shipping large packages from the US is usually very expensive, so the free shipping for two rims within Canada is heaven-sent.

Now I'm trying to figure out the ERD of 650B CR18s so I can figure out what spokes I need. Very difficult information to come by, but putting the available information for other CR18 sizes into Excel, I get this:

where y is the ERD and x is the ETRTO diameter. That's a pretty nice linear relation, and it tells me the ERD for 584 mm should be about 572.5 mm.

Murray

Victoria, BC

[Greg Achtem]

Does anyone know the weight of the CR18 650B? The SUNringle site lists 440g for the 26 (I assume 559 bcd) and 470g for the 700. Pacenti Brevets are listed as 435 +/- 15g for 650B. The CR 18s seem like they are pretty much a direct match on paper at least. I could ask C&L but it’s after 10:00 PM in Montreal at the moment. 

On Apr 30, 2024, at 17:00, Ian A <atte...@gmail.com> wrote:

Murray

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[Ian A]

Edit (blasted auto correct)

C&L are very responsive to emails and they build a lot of wheelsets, so they will have the erd to hand. 

[Harry Travis]

There cannot be that many rim mfgs in Taiwan. These from

Velo Orange may match in specs snd be available as something else in Canada.

US list price is $93.

The Voyager Rim is a highly polished, tubeless-compatible, box section rim that is designed to suit the needs of even the most discerning tourer, randonneur, and commuter. With stainless steel eyelets and double-wall construction, the Voyager Rim can accept tires ranging from 38mm to 2.4" and is available in 26", 650b/27.5", and 700c/29er.

• Intended Tire Size: 38mm-2.4"
• External Width: 27mm
• Internal Width: 22.1mm
• ERD: 26": 541.7mm | 650b: 565mm | 700c: 601.4mm
• Weight: 26": 576g | 650b: 597g | 700c: 638g
• Drilling: 32 and 36 holes
• Tubeless Compatibility: Tubeless compatible. Folding bead only.
• Brake Compatibility: Rim and Disc
• Rim Material: 6061-T6 Alloy w/ Stainless Steel Eyelets

We recommend 110 kgf for these rims. You should try not to exceed 115 kgf. Due to the careful tolerances in construction, we recommend only using folding bead tires.

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Harry P Travis

17.4.1

On Apr 30, 2024, at 7:59 PM, Ian A <atte...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Greg Achtem]

So approximately 100 grams heavier and after currency conversion approximately 60 dollars more expensive before shipping, brokerage and handling fees. Thank you for adding a rim to cross off the list.

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[handw...@gmail.com]

I came across this pic from Wake Robin showing a Velocity Quill in 26". I'd be into a group buy special order from Velocity.

Paul in Ottawa

[Chintan Jadwani]

Cheaper and reliable

https://www.bike24.com/p2314887.html?sku=1098082

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[Ian A]

The Andras are not in stock in 584 at Bike24 and are very heavy rims, but good for touring. For UK buyers, SJS Cycles carry Thorn branded rims and those are great rando rims at a low price and 480g. Overseas shipping is too costly though. Tempted to pick some up on my next trip home to the UK, but TBH the CR18's are such a nice rim and shiny too! https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rims-tape/32-thorn-275-650b-584-rim-w-cnc-sidewall-black/?geoc=CA

[Ian A]

Apologies Chintan. My mistake - those Andra rims in 584 with rim brake track are in stock. 4 hours sleep last night, shift working. Weight is 756g per rim though!

On Wednesday, May 1, 2024 at 8:23:51 AM UTC-7 chintan jadwani wrote:

[Andy G]

No idea on Canadian shipping, but the lowest cost option seen lately was the Ukai from Somafab. Currently $20 but they were down to $8 each at one point. Wild guess here, but they probably aren't ultralight.

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[Cary Weitzman]

On 2024-05-01 11:37 a.m., Ian A wrote:
> For UK buyers, SJS Cycles carry Thorn branded rims and those are great
> rando rims at a low price and 480g.

These are very nice rims, I have a polished silver one on the rear wheel
of my Canti lightning bolt and a spare. Straight and built-up very easily.

I would buy them again, but there's big CAVEAT to know: The sidewalls
are deep in that way that makes it difficult to get the tire bead to
seat properly without a soap lube and overpressure to around 60psi. I
haven't been able to get any tire bead I've tried (Pari-motos,
Gravelkings or Rene Herse) to properly seat without that. In contrast to
the vintage Mavic 650b rim on the front where bead seating is a non-issue.

This is a pain in the ass when you get a flat and can't get it to tire
to re-seat have to ride home with a big hop in the tire.

I was lucky enough to buy a pair when shipping was merely expansive and
not ridiculous.

Cary
PTBO.ON.CA

[Chintan Jadwani]

I had them from my 20" so didn't really care about the weight 😅

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[Murray Love]

As Ian suggested, I emailed C&L last night to confirm that I hadn't made any dumb mistakes when ordering spokes to go with the rims.

They responded first thing this morning to say that my ERD guess was within 0.5 mm of their own measurements, and that it looked like my spoke calculations were accurate. 

So we can safely say that the 650B CR18 has a 573 mm ERD. This is significantly larger than the 566 mm ERD on the Synergies, so new spokes were needed. Got the Sapim 2.0/1.8 from C&L. 

Murray

Victoria, BC

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[Greg Achtem]

FWIW the prowheelbuilder.com spoke calculator (https://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator) has the Sun CR 18 584 ERD listed at 576mm. Will a 3 or 2.5 mm difference in measurement make any difference when actually building a wheel? That's around 1.5 or 1 mm difference in length per spoke between the two listed ERDs, right?

Murray, the Cycle CL webpage for the CR 18 rim has the ERD listed on it under specifications. I missed it on first viewing. 

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[Murray Love]

Huh, that's weird. I missed that entirely. Maybe they added it after my question this morning?

A 1.5 mm radial length difference shouldn't be too much of an issue, as long as the spokes aren't marginal to begin with. 

But going by my linear regression above and C&L's corroboration, it seems more likely that 573 mm is correct.

Murray

Victoria, BC

[Brad]

Does anyone have a history of name changes and takeovers in the rim making industry?

For example I have the same rim in my stash labelled  Exal and ZAC 19 from another buy.  My recollection is that the same extrusion has had other names over time.  

I am also curious if the CR-18 rims in 650B flavor now behave well.   Many years ago they did not, but I was a fan of CR-18 rims in 700c.

[William Lindsay]

I like the Crust 650B rims and I'm pleased that they are back in stock.  Some people have voice strong misgivings over low "max spoke tension ratings" from Crust.  They run $100 apiece so they are also not as inexpensive as some of the others on this thread.  They exist though, and Crust as a company appears committed to 650B rim brake bicycles.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Will Boericke]

Re: Ukai rims from Soma - I own two sets, in a fit of irrational exuberance.  I feel the need to call others' attention to the dimensions: 25ID/31OD.  These are wide rims.  So wide that I am struggling to conceive of a frame / brake setup where I will be able to use them in a rim-brake setting.  I see it as an interesting challenge, though, and maybe even worth building a set of wheels just to see if I can make it happen.  I think it will need to be cantilevers on a vintage mtb where I can get the pads high enough to contact the rims.

Will near Boston

[Eric Daume]

These rims are crying out for a Crust Wombat. I know, I have a pair and feel the temptation. 

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[Harry Travis]

As I think I confirmed 4 years ago with VO, the rims from Velo Orange are plug in substitutes for Synergies. Same spoke length.

For the pro wheel builder, I understand that is irrelevant, except for stocking spokes, because cost v benefit of building with used spokes isn't there. 

I carefully for opp not to flush $100 in spokes.

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Harry P Travis

Portland Oregon USA 

17.4.1

On May 1, 2024, at 9:30 AM, Murray Love <murra...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Andy G]

My Rawland cSogn has 2.6" / 66mm tires plus fenders. I think I could get up to 3.0" / 76mm without fenders but that's more than I plan on needing. Canti rim brakes and normal BB!

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[DavidP]

I also have two pairs of the 650b Ukai gravel rims  (and one pair of 700c) and consider them as inexpensive Cliffhanger substitutes. I'd run them on canti or V-brake frames (I have Cliffhangers on my Platypus with 50mm tires). I agree with Eric that the Wombat (or Florida Man) would be a perfect pairing. I still don't know the ERD on them.

-Dave (also near Boston)

[daxo potato]

from Ukai the new rims were the deal

from Soma the price was a steal

it all seemed so fair

we all bought a pair

but none were built into a wheel

-dave with ukai rims stored in a round tuit in NY

[William Lindsay]

I've been meaning to get a round tuit.  Are you glad you got a round tuit?

Bill Lindsay

storing his spare rims in a henway

El Cerrito, CA