Concorde Conversion

[Michael Wong]

I’m looking at one on eBay.

Is it a good conversion candidate? What’s the biggest tires it will take? I have a Bottecchia and it will probably only take 35s at the very most

[pcb....@gmail.com]

Link? Photo? Some kind of help?

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

[Michael Wong]

Here’s the frame:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373820249992?hash=item57096c5788:g:lNwAAOSw~2Rh1N2o

Though I’m not sure pictures will help much for this specific bike.

More I’m looking for people’s experiences converting vintage steel Italian race bikes 

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[Cary Weitzman]

Michael Wong wrote on 1/18/22 12:00 PM:

> More I’m looking for people’s experiences converting vintage steel
> Italian race bikes

Dutch.

I have a Concorde Americas frame of the same era (Tange Infinity) and it
was a no-go for 650bx38 due to chainstay clearance (or rather lack thereof).

Cary
PTBO.ON.CA

[Brad]

Fast back stays create challenges for conversions.   I have a Univega Gran  Premio that was a no go at 650B x 38 .   It hangs in the basement storage area rust proofed and unbuilt.  There is a certain era of bikes that were optimize to be thin tire (feels like they) go fast 700c bikes.   I would say they are pease porridge hot bikes.  Some people like them.  My conversions tend to be older in pease porridge nine days old and restored to 650B category.

[Michael Wong]

Brad, Paul, Cary,

That’s exactly the kind of great info I was hoping for. Thanks so very very much!

I’ve been looking for an 017 or Tange Prestige frame and the price on this Concorde is great. But I don’t wanna run 25s so probably a no go.

Thanks!

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[daxo potato]

I'm partial to the early-mid 80's Fujis. their high end bikes seem to subscribe to the skinny tyre ideal that makes for poor conversions, but their upper mid-range bikes have good clearances and decent frames. I'm told their "valite" tubing was relabeled ishiwata (i read it on the interwebs so it must be true!). my current street beater is an 83-85? supreme, plenty of room for 650-42 with fenders. the frame is surprisingly light and a joy to ride. the del rey and a couple others were also very good. the best thing is these are not "sought after" classic frames so they can often be had for cheap. a lot of manufacturers had bikes in this same niche, Panasonic, Miyata, univega, lotus, etc etc.

really though for conversion candidates your best bet is checking out the frame in person. one accurate measurement beats a thousand expert opinions, as the old saying goes.

dave in nyc

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[Mark in Beacon]

I guess it's entirely possible that Valite is rebranded Ishiwata, but I doubt it is the 017 variety the OP is looking for. The real light steel frames were only just getting established when they got knocked out by aluminum, so not very easy to find frames featuring Tange Prestige or Ishiwata 017.

I converted a Panasonic DX-5000 in a year it was made with Prestige (some years it was Tange 1). It fit 650B x 38 comfortably, no fenders. The wheelset was not very light, so I put it back to 700c, but planning to build a wheelset with some 650B A23 rims this winter to give this conversion another go.

[satanas]

I wouldn't worry much about the seat stays as the brake bridge is a reasonable width. However, the chainstays are ROR rather than indented, so I doubt 38s would clear there; most road bikes will fit 32s, but more is unusual. It's also hard to see how wide the fork is, but most forks will fit 38s, if only just, unless they have integral full sloping crowns. The chainstays are almost always the sticking point, literally.

As for 017, good luck with that. You're much more likely to find 022, then 024, 019, 017 and 015 in that order, but 017 and 015 are rare and not used on (m)any production frames. I wouldn't hold your breath.

Later,

Stephen

[Michael Wong]

As Stephen and Mark say, 017 and Prestige bikes are pretty rare, one reason I’m so tempted by the Concorde. 753 bikes actually seem more common, but pricier. Also, they probably wouldn’t convert any better for same reasons sagely above

There’s also a DX-6000 on eBay rn. Good to know probably fit 38s, though I really want 42s

Probably, i should just be looking for something like a Jeff Lyon or Wiegle if I want a 7/4/7 std tubing bike, but that’s not in my current budget

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[Squire Black]

I converted a 1966 Lygie to 650B without problems.  I run Panaracer Pari-Motos 1.5" tires, which come in at around 38mm on Pacenti Brevet rims.  (Rene Herse Babyshoe Pass tires, nominally 42mm, are the same width as the Pari-Motos.)  I found some vintage RAID brakes, since most modern brakes won't reach.   On that Concorde, I would guess that you won't have enough chainstay clearance, as others have already said.  I don't see any dimples in the chainstays; I do see where the paint has been worn off by a previous wheel that wasn't quite centered.  The tapered fork with the narrow crown also looks like it won't take anything but a skinny tire. 

Assuming that you will have to for pay shipping, and then a re-paint, that frame seems expensive to me, unless it checks all of your boxes.   If you wanted to do a vintage restoration with tubs and sprints, it would be worth it.

On Wednesday, January 19, 2022 at 11:11:29 AM UTC-8 michael...@gmail.com wrote:

As Stephen and Mark say, 017 and Prestige bikes are pretty rare, one reason I’m so tempted by the Concorde. 753 bikes actually seem more common, but pricier. Also, they probably wouldn’t convert any better for same reasons sagely above

There’s also a DX-6000 on eBay rn. Good to know probably fit 38s, though I really want 42s

Probably, i should just be looking for something like a Jeff Lyon or Wiegle if I want a 7/4/7 std tubing bike, but that’s not in my current budget

On Wednesday, January 19, 2022, satanas <nsc.e...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wouldn't worry much about the seat stays as the brake bridge is a reasonable width. However, the chainstays are ROR rather than indented, so I doubt 38s would clear there; most road bikes will fit 32s, but more is unusual. It's also hard to see how wide the fork is, but most forks will fit 38s, if only just, unless they have integral full sloping crowns. The chainstays are almost always the sticking point, literally.

As for 017, good luck with that. You're much more likely to find 022, then 024, 019, 017 and 015 in that order, but 017 and 015 are rare and not used on (m)any production frames. I wouldn't hold your breath.

Later,

Stephen

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[pcb....@gmail.com]

I'd expect gobs of clearance with a '66 Lygie!

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

[pcb....@gmail.com]

Not to pick nits, but I'd suspect a fair amount of distance between a Jeff Lyon and a Weigle, price-wise. I'm not at all trying to make any value judgements, I'm just pretty durn sure you'd have to shell out an awful lot more buck$ for a Weigle than a Lyon, if you're talking new pricing. JL has a lower-cost, lower-frills frame option in addition to full custom builds. JPW is only doing full custom AFAIK, and has a backlog out the wazoo. Though he has done 650b conversions on Raleigh Competitions/Int'l/??? for folks in the past.

The idea of having a capable builder who's willing/able to affordably modify a '70s 700c sport-tour frame to 650b, with canti bosses, proper stay denting, proper fender boss positioning, proper fork rake, useful bz-ons  and decent but not exorbitant paint is something that sounds pretty cool to me. There's a fella on BikeForums and maybe now also on CR or ibob or ???? who goes by Gugie, very capable torcher who does lots of mods for folks, including custom-built racks. Gotta be careful not to talk myself into anything here. And I did talk with Gugie a while back about a custom rack for my weirdo Berthoud bag/rack...

Likely not too hard to find some full-time builders who'd do some mods?

But I think there are also a bunch of builders out there who could build the crap out of 650b purpose-built frame in std tube diameters, at a reasonable/affordable price.

Fer sure budgets can be a concern or limitation. But I also think sometimes folks wind up with a bunch of "projects" that are maybe somehow sub-optimal, and if they offloaded a few/bunch of those they could use the $$$ for one cooler thing that fits/works better.

Not aiming that statement at anybody in particular, and probably more towards myself/boku than anybody else.

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA 

 

On Wednesday, January 19, 2022 at 2:11:29 PM UTC-5 michael...@gmail.com wrote:

As Stephen and Mark say, 017 and Prestige bikes are pretty rare, one reason I’m so tempted by the Concorde. 753 bikes actually seem more common, but pricier. Also, they probably wouldn’t convert any better for same reasons sagely above

There’s also a DX-6000 on eBay rn. Good to know probably fit 38s, though I really want 42s

Probably, i should just be looking for something like a Jeff Lyon or Wiegle if I want a 7/4/7 std tubing bike, but that’s not in my current budget

On Wednesday, January 19, 2022, satanas <nsc.e...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wouldn't worry much about the seat stays as the brake bridge is a reasonable width. However, the chainstays are ROR rather than indented, so I doubt 38s would clear there; most road bikes will fit 32s, but more is unusual. It's also hard to see how wide the fork is, but most forks will fit 38s, if only just, unless they have integral full sloping crowns. The chainstays are almost always the sticking point, literally.

As for 017, good luck with that. You're much more likely to find 022, then 024, 019, 017 and 015 in that order, but 017 and 015 are rare and not used on (m)any production frames. I wouldn't hold your breath.

Later,

Stephen

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[Mark in Beacon]

Paul wrote: I also think sometimes folks wind up with a bunch of "projects" that are maybe somehow sub-optimal, and if they offloaded a few/bunch of those they could use the $$$ for one cooler thing that fits/works better.

This of course is sage advice, but I almost feel it is a "theoretical" truth. Some people do a conversion or two to try things out before committing to commissioning a custom or batch production 650B (which on this list often also infers lower trail). Some people just like any excuse to tinker around.  Probably a small minority would like to get as close as possible to a custom low trail 650B rando bike on the "cheap." In that case probably best to start out with a tried and true platform like the Raleigh Competition. Of course as 650B became more popular, the conversion discussions dropped off considerably. I sometimes  these days think, what an odd defining characteristic for a bike discussion group.

My progression was GT Tachyon (canti 700d that easily takes a 650B wheelset) to being part of the rSogn online design consulting team to trading my rSogn in and ordering a L'Avecaise to now tinkering with a couple of my 700c bikes that make interesting conversion candidates, basically to get more fat on the wheels, cause why not. It's almost just an excuse to build another wheelset. From a non-fanatic viewpoint, it doesn't make much sense. But then, neither does owning more than 10 bicycles of whatever rim size.

I also have two 650b Rivendells, a Clem L and Hubba tandem. (650B Rivs are kind of the nerds of this here 650B google group.)  And I just bought a Poseidon Redwood for my son. But I was never interested in creating a budget low trail rando (or even the more general "one cooler thing") for keeps, even though at times I was financially qualified to pursue that goal.  YMMV.

[Michael Wong]

“Try a few things”, that’s a good point. Perhaps the Concorde is just an opportunity for me to see if I like 7/4/7 std dia tubing.

Though if I do, I will still probably have trouble finding an affordable thin walled, std dia, 650-able, wide tire bike

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[Josiah Anderson]

"An affordable thin walled, std dia, 650-able, wide tire bike" sounds to me like you're describing the Crust Lightning Bolt. It is really nice for everything to just work and not have to mess with it like on a conversion (which I did plenty of before getting my Crust), although the tradeoff is that it's not quite as cheap. I definitely think it's worth it if you can afford it though, and would likely have good resale value if you decided you didn't like it.

Josiah Anderson

Missoula, MT

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[Michael Wong]

I've long admired the Crust. But it's not standard diameter is it? I thought it was 28.6/31.8 diameter with 8/5/8 walls. I'm wanting to try a bike with 25.4/28.6 x 7/4/7 tubing.

[Cary Weitzman]

Michael Wong wrote on 1/27/22 11:03 AM:

> I've long admired the Crust. But it's not standard diameter is it? I
> thought it was 28.6/31.8 diameter with 8/5/8 walls. I'm wanting to try
> a bike with 25.4/28.6 x 7/4/7 tubing.

No. The original run of the Canti Lightning Bolt is standard diameter
7/4/7 in sizes M and down and with an OS 7/4/7 downtube in Large and XL
(Jan Heine's "Mule Spec").

Another run of them has been ordered. When they show up and will be
available to purchase is anyone's guess, even Crust doesn't know.

Cary
PTBO.ON.CA

[Michael Wong]

Ah. I saw some references that it was 853. I didn't know 853 came in 1" or 7/4/7

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[Cary Weitzman]

Michael Wong wrote on 1/27/22 4:36 PM:

> Ah. I saw some references that it was 853. I didn't know 853 came in
> 1" or 7/4/7

That's the disc LB, and (I think) the older Romanceurs. The tubes on the
CLB are mystery tubing.

Cary
PTBO.ON.CA