Bambu user enthusiasm

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I’ve seen a lot of fan boy silliness over the years but what I’m seeing from Bambu lovers is getting kinda weird. The best example are the trolls on the Prusa XL FB group. It got so bad they had to close access and then they removed users!

How about Bambu users posting pics to show the wonderful quality their getting? I note that I’ve yet to see pic; in particular comparison pics.

Speed and automation are nice, but theyre both outweighed by durability, reliability, maintainability and how many use cases are satisfied. All of these have yet to be seen as far as Bambu is concerned. 

[James Fackert]

How old is the latest version of the prusa? Maybe 5 years plus?

Leveling is old tech, hot end is old tech, cable system is ancient tech.

Slicer is good, but not locked in to prusa. Parts and service doc are pretty dodgy too.

Not too tough to be better than that these days.

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[Kurt at VRFX]

Hey James - I hear ya. But, if you DO have the Bambu - why not post some pics of some print jobs. Since, partially - that's the complaint by Andy - that folks Talk Up the printer a lot - but, don't seem to show a lot of Proof!

As for Prusa - I believe Joselph put out a Brand new Printer - albeit one that is kinda going out of the Hobby Level price range. Andy discussed it in his Podcast. Although, will admit - I may be wrong - in regards to whether it has been actually released yet. Still...

-K

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[Mark Steele]

I'm running more complex prints this weekend, however these were to make sure PETG would print well

On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 5:19 PM Mark Steele <mstee...@gmail.com> wrote:

Running the X1 for two days now. Generic PETG at 200mms on the Voron cube and whatever ludicrous speed is on the call sign two color print.

The cube is almost dimensionally perfect, 19.98 mm on all three axis. 

sent from my mobile device.

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[Mark Steele]

hmmm - let me send the images separately.

[Mark Steele]

sent from my mobile device.

[Mark Steele]

Sorry for the disjointed emails  - the first one bounced because it was too large - her is the email body:

Running the X1 for two days now. Generic PETG at 200mms on the Voron cube and whatever ludicrous speed is on the call sign two color print.

The cube is almost dimensionally perfect, 19.98 mm on all three axis. 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Good prints, but not perfect. Far from it. Looks like slight overextruding on the corners and a pattern in the layers which could be the gantry belts, could also be motor current. The thing is with all the hype the expectation is perfection from all the automation.

Does the slicer let you adjust things like coast?

[Mark Steele]

I have not run the calibration on the extrusion yet as I am using a third party PEI sheet and the Lidar does not like it. 

Once I run the flow calibration on the smooth sheet it will likely remove the over extrusion.

I'm not sure about the slicer settings - still getting used to it - I prefer Cura so it's taking a little getting used to.

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[James Fackert]

Prusa is working on putting out a huge expensive printer, apparently trying to graduate into a whole new market, while leaving the "classic" market to decay.

Maybe it will turn out to be a brilliant move.

Maybe not.

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Well… the cheap flat pack approach may not translate well for tool changers and when more people out there have tool changers you will see real progression in 3d printing innovation starting with the elimination of break away support marring.

[John Mueller]

I have an X1 and P1P, but I canceled my pre-orders on more. The P1P is actually giving me slightly better prints but I am calling the print quality near my FlashForge Dreamer from 2014. Ha not far off. More later, testing to see if I can reply by email. 

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[Mark Steele]

Post calibration. 

sent from my mobile device.

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[Mark Steele]

Post calibration 2

sent from my mobile device.

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Pretty good, still not perfect but not bad at all. Next let’s see how well it can do an 8 hour print.

[Joseph Larson]

Going back to the original topic here, without a doubt the rampant Bambu fanbase has become one of the most blown out, insane things I've seen within this community in the history of a 3D printing community, as far as I remember. And the Prusa community has been likewise out of control lately. And honestly, I don't know which came first in this case. Did Prusa fanboys start attacking Bambu because they thought Bambu was eating their beloved's lunch, and the Bambu Community rose up in retaliation, or did the Bambu community start antagonizing Prusa first? Either way at this point I feel both sides need to address their respective communities.

The Voron community is also getting into it, but honestly, they're so small it's just cute.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

The thing is Bambu Labs didn't start this. Prusa didn't start this. Voron didn't start this. They all just did, quite frankly, the right thing. They did the best they could, not targeting anyone else. This is being entirely carried by the communities, the people around them, who decided they needed warriors that they never asked for. But whichever one of them steps up first to address their community and tell them to back off will forever be remembered as the one that made the right move first. 

As for my Bambu, I've run it for 24 hours on some detailed prints, and even run it on the ludacris speed so that the print would finish before I had to get it out, and even with high detailed surfaces, there was no print quality degradation that I was able to detect. Granted it wasn't on a print I needed mechanically sound, but I was impressed.

https://youtu.be/exxa082H0Hw?t=465

I've also had problems and was able to fix them. It's surprisingly accessible for repair, even if the parts are proprietary. 

I've been impressed with Uncle Jessie's experience as well. His 6 month revisit video shares all the ups, downs, and ultimate triumphs with the machine. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBzTEG7UhS4

And, to be clear, I'm running my Prusa right along side it at the same time. In fact, during this time I had a major fail on my Prusa that damaged the hot end. I decided to use this as an opportunity to upgrade to a Revo 6, only to have it suddenly not able to feed filament because the drive gear slipped. That took a little bit of head scratching to figure that out. I was ultimately able to figure it out, and there was a lot of people in the various communities who were able to help me do that. And now they're both chugging away, printing out like crazy, side by side, like ebony and Ivory on my piano keyboard.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

From what I have seen, a lot of the vitriol came from people who were fed up with the long delays for the Prusa XL. Prusa says they have supply chain issues, yet Bambu delivers. Some folks gave up on the wait and bought Bambu then went back and flamed Prusa for the delays. On that issue… they’re supposed to be getting their first small batch out this week, but nobody out there has gotten one yet.

[Kurt at VRFX]

Hey Joe - I just LOVED this reply of yours - its Funny - its Fun - and also HONEST - so Kudos to you!!!

The idea of these communities of folks, Obsessed with their printers - deciding its time to make a WAR - its VERY FUNNY Indeed!!!

Thanks SO Much for your Insights and your Honesty - as I really enjoy hearing from you. And, ONE of these days - we shall meet up in person again! Until then - Keep Charging Forwards with your Printers - just as I shall do the SAME!

-K

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[LukeH]

Isn’t the PrusaXL a large tool changer, and the CX1 a relatively small build volume, single extruder machine?

If we put aside that one is still vapourware at this point, it is like comparing an SUV to a Pickup, and arguing what is the “best” form of transport, when we know they are different products to cater to different market segments.

They say in marketing that is isn’t the sausage you sell, but the sizzle. About the only thing both of these printers  have in common is the hype. Neither of them are the last word in 3D printing. Neither of them will be as good as what the zealots are saying.

[Dan Flemming]

This is really fun & entertaining to read about these groups raving against each other.

The bottom line is,

3D printing has FINALLY come around to a "half way decent" product...

My Ender 3 V2 was producing about as perfect a print that ANY printer could achieve, although it was slow.

I upgraded a few items on my printer, the more I upgraded the worst my quality became.

Finally, I bought the Sonic Pad, thinking (and believing the bull poop hype) that it was a miracle!

Wrong!

I finally, after a few months of tweaking, I got it printing descent quality at 150 mm/sec.

The point is, there IS NO GREAT PRINTERS at hobby level.

Heck, even pro level they need someone to constantly keep them "tuned".

A friend of mine would spend up to $60,000 for a great 3D Printer that "didn't require constant attention!"

But that's not going to happen because they just don't exist!

We just have to wait until technology (at our expense) catches up to expectations.

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[Luke Hartfiel]

But it could be. Problem with a that reliability isn’t a feature that you can advertise, because since the bar is so low for 3D printer reliability, nobody would believe it. It also isn’t something that many/most YouTube influencers would rave about, which is what sells printers. It is all of these flashy features using LIDARS, or amazing travel speeds, or the ability to print in 150 different colours.

I’m a tinkerer. I get that, but some people just want a device that prints reliably well every time and doesn’t take forever to do so.

On 18 Jan 2023, at 10:35 am, Dan Flemming <newmi...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Joseph Larson]

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:58:24 PM UTC-7 3D Printing Tips and Tricks wrote:

From what I have seen, a lot of the vitriol came from people who were fed up with the long delays for the Prusa XL. Prusa says they have supply chain issues, yet Bambu delivers. Some folks gave up on the wait and bought Bambu then went back and flamed Prusa for the delays. On that issue… they’re supposed to be getting their first small batch out this week, but nobody out there has gotten one yet.

I hadn't heard that one yet, but I could see that being someone's excuse. 

And like Luke said, apples and oranges. Logically it doesn't make sense to say "They got their much smaller and much more limited printer out, why couldn't Prusa". But often with situations like this where people are emotional, they look for justifications for their feelings. And in the case of people who put out a reservation for an XL, and the prospect of putting out even more, could lead to buyers remorse. So the excuse, and "Well they managed to get it out" is a good one, but not the root cause. The root cause is they're worried about spending so much money.

It's the same as people seeing my Carbon X1's cover off so I could remove the nozzle and replying with "is it a $1000 pile of regret yet?" Over a nozzle change. Or the person who dug up a week old tweet to say my praise of Bambu's plethora of sensor didn't age well when Nero3d seemed to have discovered Bambu didn't have runaway thermal protection, only to have their tweet not age well when less than a day later it Bambu clarified that they did (if admittedly not nearly as aggressive as the community would have liked). But maybe the root issue is they kinda want one, but either can't or won't afford it, so instead of admitting that, they find excuses. Sour grapes, as the fable goes.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I would say to go read the posts see for yourself on the FB group…. But they deleted them!

FB almost as a rule, is filled with trolling and flaming as it is. It’s almost a cultural thing on FB. We prefer GGs for all our forum activity.
One can admin a FB group, but few group owners do it.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Im curious Joe... did you buy your Carbon X1 or did they send it to you for your YouTube thing.

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 8:45:02 PM UTC-8 joeal...@gmail.com wrote:

[Kurt at VRFX]

Luke,

I got a Real Kick out of this particular comment of yours! Why? Well, I
was in that boat several years ago (circa 2013).

I had my MakerBot CupCake - and I was printing a TON on it! But, I had
TOO MANY Fails! It was especially frustrating when I printed something
good, but, an almost similar print - would fail. And, my frsutrations
with the Fails - made me turn to StrataSys - and I got a Mojo. There was
also another factor as to why I got that Mojo - but, I won't get into it
right now. Suffice it to say - as you mentioned - I just wanted a
Printer that worked Reliably and Perfectly EVERY TIME! Yeah - I paid
thru the Nose - but, it DID its Job. I even printed stuff on there that
I feel could NOT be printed on a hobby level printer. Printing some
parts that had not only Small details, but, "hinged" type of connections
that I felt could ONLY be reliably printed with Disolveable supports.
And, the prints came out great. And, I showed off the special print at
World Maker Faire NYC - but, also, I showed it around a LOT of place.
Why? Cause it was a crazy piece that was WEARABLE! I wore it to work
Multiple times - and people were VERY Surprised by my creation!

Anyway - this reply is getting Long in the Tooth - time to end it...

-K

[Kurt at VRFX]

Dan - I'm sorry - I'm going to have to disagree with you here! Why???

My StrataSys Mojo printed KICKED Ass! There was only a couple issues
with it - but, it just printed. Yeah, when you pay for a printer THAT
Expensive (NOT $60K like your remark - but, $10K) - you get good
support. There was only One issue - and Stratasys sent to me a guy to
deal with it. It was a WHILE ago - but, oddly - I think it was a Part on
the machine that was not installed correctly. He fixed it - and BOOM -
it was working great again.

In the end - it worked GREAT for year - only a couple issues - but, I
CRANKED Out Parts - between 2013 to 2018 and nearly NO Problems! Nope -
did NOT have to keep giving it "constant attention" - as you mentioned!
Not at all. So - yeah - Been There - Done That...

And, no - my reply is NOT meant to be Snarky. Just saying - yeah - you
get a pro-level 3DP, and you can potentially use it a LOT for Years -
and you do NOT need to be giving it attention - it just Works!

As JetGuy would have said - the Sucker was almost Over-Engineered, and
that's why it KICKED ASS - my Mojo! And, when JetGuy came to visit me at
my place at one point, and he got a Close-up look at my Mojo - he was
IMPRESSED By My Mojo!!!!

Yeah - Pun intended. But, joking aside - yeah - the machine Rocked and
JetGuy then understood why!

-K

[Luke Hartfiel]

That said, you don’t need to spend $10K for reliability, but it does make printers more expensive because of the quality control (including materials selection, inspection, test, and verification) required at both the component level and at the assembled unit level. That adds to the overall cost both in component cost and in labour costs.





> On 19 Jan 2023, at 3:15 pm, Kurt at VRFX <vr...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> Luke,

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[Joseph Larson]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 1:02:10 PM UTC-7 3D Printing Tips and Tricks wrote:

Im curious Joe... did you buy your Carbon X1 or did they send it to you for your YouTube thing.

 

Yes, they did send me one for my "YouTube thing". This thing I've been working on for nigh a decade now. I know for some people that invalidates the opinion. How can I appreciate a thing the same way as someone who who put forth money for it?

That's why I made a spreadshseet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nDlsLkzX7s5A_NPLQe51ftHEMDyBCawe7HhtGvmvRoQ/edit#gid=65564132

Before I review a printer, I fill out the spreadsheet, which has been carefully balanced to answer, among other questions, "is it worth the money". It's not perfect. Nothing is. I wish the Adventurer 3 were higher on that list because I just love it so much, and no numerical analysis is going to change that. But, so far I've been pretty pleased with the results of the spreadsheet and how things land on this it. 

Now, while I can't say that I paid for this one, I would absolutely pay for a second if I had the space and the need to expand. Fortunately, this machine's speed is such that I really don't need a second one yet.  But if I had anything I needed a production run on... I might serious consider an expansion.

[bron...@gmail.com]

well I can't speak for the users on the other platforms the Bambu Discord has been very decent granted everyone there is interested in the printer  my x1carbon with ams will be here Tuesday   its the first machine I have not scratch built  so it should be interesting my current railcore-ish Corexy which prints decently fast is probably going to become a tool changer with 3 or 4 systems out there now I am sure I can adapt something

one  thing Andy will probably like about the Bambu system is they are pushing master spools and refills selling them on their site I have also recently seen Esun selling them