Re: [2600-AU] Digest for 2600-australia@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic
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Daniel Punton
Jun 18, 2021, 10:04:51 PM6/18/21
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Australia doesn't have a constitution - that's probably the foremost reason no one complains about it.
d
On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 at 10:48, <2600-au...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
- Happy Queen's Birthday Weekend! - 1 Update
"ad...@reviews.wox.org" <ad...@reviews.wox.org>: Jun 19 10:43AM +1000
What commonwealth constitution.. the same one that doesn't
recognise local council or land rates but we get charged
them anyway, the same one that defines a levy as a temp
toll to pay off a public asset; yet we have a purpetual fuel
levy that doubles the price, the same one that means the
entire Australian commonwealth has been floated on the US
stock exchange and has shareholders unknown to most of
Australia, and the same one that allows crooked politicians
when someone attempts to serve court papers on them
missusing the anti-terrorism laws to send thugs around to
beat up their mother and arrest them for no reason.
Ohh that constitution. Gotcha.
On 14/06/2021 3:58 pm, Sid E wrote:
> Today is the real reason people don't complain about the
> Constitution - a public holiday!
> --
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David Fernée
Jun 18, 2021, 10:33:31 PM6/18/21
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The late Charles 'Bud' Tingwell tells me it does... Section 51(xxxi) anyway - The Castle (1997 Australian film) - Wikipedia. If you call him a liar I might ask your teachers to discuss it with you in High School and you can create a pretty pamphlet using your IT skills: Referendum to change the Constitution - AT | The Australian Curriculum.
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ad...@reviews.wox.org
Jun 28, 2021, 10:05:25 PM6/28/21
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FYI David,
When most people say we have no constitution they usually are referring to the lack of fundamental civil rights, freedoms, and human rights in Australia. There are little to no civil protections beyond a basic discrimination framework that usually gets misued by SJW to take jobs, (or for wierdos to be allowed to cheat in sports by circuimventing rules limiting competition to age, gender or disability) and a misandrist family court system often misused by people to help themselves to all of someones assets and deprive them of their children in a relationship break up. Privacy laws in Australia? - not unless you are a politician.
When most people say we have no constitution they usually are referring to the lack of fundamental civil rights, freedoms, and human rights in Australia. There are little to no civil protections beyond a basic discrimination framework that usually gets misued by SJW to take jobs, (or for wierdos to be allowed to cheat in sports by circuimventing rules limiting competition to age, gender or disability) and a misandrist family court system often misused by people to help themselves to all of someones assets and deprive them of their children in a relationship break up. Privacy laws in Australia? - not unless you are a politician.
About the only protections in place are
political ones, which is why a vast majority of our politicians
are considered felons in some countries - but not here.
Whistleblower laws and national security loopholes protect them
from prosecution. Even the ones that should be felons. Did you
know for example Turnbull (you know the guy that destroyed our
digital economy with stupid meta data, encryption backdoor laws
and broke the NBN beyond repair) was implicated in a tax evasion
investigation into the Camen islands ? Or that a significant
number of MP's would be arrested on sight in China for providing
financial support to Chinese organised crime. (who do you think
runs all the casinos in Australia now? As it turns out a bunch of
politicians are shareholders.. conflict of interest much? Ever
wonder why lock out laws didnt apply to casinos?)
It is why local council can maintain fleets of private contractors outside of the police illegally issuing fines, with no checks and balances, who can act above the law. Effectively racketteering. Private contracting companies can issue fines with no burden of evidence. In fact back in the day if you worked for tenix or serco, you could figuratively issue a fine on a napkin with a crayon (and often did, "oh speed detector broken?, manually take a photo and write a made up speed on it.. nobody will know..") and it would be upheld in court, with no requirement to prove the one given the fine even did the crime - (except in qld apprently) although the judge could reduce the severity of the fine, you would still lose points on your licence, and it was rare they would. There are "guidelines" like not sticking a speed camera under a 70km/h sign and setting the camera to 60km/h or putting it next to railway lines where it may issue a speed fine to a motorist for the speed a train was doing. But the contractors themself are on record joking about how how they do it anyway to increase fine revenue. Serco (just Tenix renamed on the paperwork after they were banned from operating speed cameras when they send fines to one too many [politicians) at one point was even bragging on their promotional material sent to local councils how they prosecute 40% more fines than other companies because they rig it that way - and can earn a council a lot more money than companies with you know.. morals.
It is also why Australia has concentration camps running under the auspices of Herr Dutton's border protection and homeland security SS officers - and all the negative connotations that implies with regard to WW2 applied as standard practice. Ever hear of operation fortitude? (Look non-white? "Halt! Your papers!, no? lock him up offshore!") or the law to allow guards immunity from killing detention centre inmates ("Kill him! I feel threatened by his non-whiteness!") or the political incarceration law which allows people a politician reports being arrested and held without charge indefinately. ("he said bad words about me, nevermind if they are true - he is a terrorist, lock him up forever!")
Local council is not recognised by the commonwealth, and should not be charging "rent" on private property in the form of rates. It has even been upheld in court a few times anyone put up the funds to argue it. (i beleive the commonwealth requirement is local council be funded by government not rates, although they are allowed to charge for rubbish collection etc) and of course my previously mentioned "forever" fuel levy. The only reason we get away with it, is the UK really doesn't care to enforce a 200 year old colonial charter, or an even older magna carta. Too much effort.
It is why local council can maintain fleets of private contractors outside of the police illegally issuing fines, with no checks and balances, who can act above the law. Effectively racketteering. Private contracting companies can issue fines with no burden of evidence. In fact back in the day if you worked for tenix or serco, you could figuratively issue a fine on a napkin with a crayon (and often did, "oh speed detector broken?, manually take a photo and write a made up speed on it.. nobody will know..") and it would be upheld in court, with no requirement to prove the one given the fine even did the crime - (except in qld apprently) although the judge could reduce the severity of the fine, you would still lose points on your licence, and it was rare they would. There are "guidelines" like not sticking a speed camera under a 70km/h sign and setting the camera to 60km/h or putting it next to railway lines where it may issue a speed fine to a motorist for the speed a train was doing. But the contractors themself are on record joking about how how they do it anyway to increase fine revenue. Serco (just Tenix renamed on the paperwork after they were banned from operating speed cameras when they send fines to one too many [politicians) at one point was even bragging on their promotional material sent to local councils how they prosecute 40% more fines than other companies because they rig it that way - and can earn a council a lot more money than companies with you know.. morals.
It is also why Australia has concentration camps running under the auspices of Herr Dutton's border protection and homeland security SS officers - and all the negative connotations that implies with regard to WW2 applied as standard practice. Ever hear of operation fortitude? (Look non-white? "Halt! Your papers!, no? lock him up offshore!") or the law to allow guards immunity from killing detention centre inmates ("Kill him! I feel threatened by his non-whiteness!") or the political incarceration law which allows people a politician reports being arrested and held without charge indefinately. ("he said bad words about me, nevermind if they are true - he is a terrorist, lock him up forever!")
Local council is not recognised by the commonwealth, and should not be charging "rent" on private property in the form of rates. It has even been upheld in court a few times anyone put up the funds to argue it. (i beleive the commonwealth requirement is local council be funded by government not rates, although they are allowed to charge for rubbish collection etc) and of course my previously mentioned "forever" fuel levy. The only reason we get away with it, is the UK really doesn't care to enforce a 200 year old colonial charter, or an even older magna carta. Too much effort.
Constitutionally we are in a very bad
place.
On 19/06/2021 12:33 pm, David Fernée wrote:
The late Charles 'Bud' Tingwell tells me it does... Section 51(xxxi) anyway - The Castle (1997 Australian film) - Wikipedia. If you call him a liar I might ask your teachers to discuss it with you in High School and you can create a pretty pamphlet using your IT skills: Referendum to change the Constitution - AT | The Australian Curriculum.
On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 at 12:04, Daniel Punton <comp...@gmail.com> wrote:
Australia doesn't have a constitution - that's probably the foremost reason no one complains about it.
d
-- New and improved 2600... well.. ..we drew on some flames and polished it a bit.. -- Google - making sure, life is no more, than 1984... -- Bill Gates: 640k is more than enough for anybody PC guy down the road: You will never fill that 10mb Hard disk mate Abbott/Turnbull: 25Mbps is "more than enough" for the average Australian household. Turnbull: Actually 10MBs is enough for the average household really. Abbott/Turnbull: It is cheaper to put in FTTN, you get up to 24mbs/down and 256k up.. we can upgrade it more later... -- Abbott: Being an Aboriginal is a "Lifestyle choice" Abbott: Having optic fiber (FTTP) is a "Lifestyle choice" Abbott/Cabinet: People and Businesses that require broadband should move to the city. Hockey: The extra cost of fuel wont effect low income families, because they don't drive anywhere anymore. Abbott: Australians will have to tighten their belt.. put off that overseas holiday or new car this year.. Abbott: I wont apologize for the stolen generation, I would do it again. Abbott: I stopped the boats, they deserve to be locked up as terrorists. Abbott: I am sick of being told I am violating human rights. Abbott: We need to pass these extra nation wide surveillance laws as soon as possible, we can fix the issues with the scope later.. -- Adolf Hitler: And so by voting to appoint me high chancelor and to dissolve parliment you vote for a stronger germany, for stong industry and jobs for all.. we can worry about the finer details later.. Adolf Hitler: Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise. -- Joseph Goebbels: If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. -- In politics - Later never happens.
David Fernée
Jun 29, 2021, 1:24:43 AM6/29/21
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Please forgive me for being facetious. I do understand these issues are very important and perhaps attempted humour was not the best tool to use.
Regarding Human Rights, how would you see it done? Would you want an amendment to the Constitution similar to the Bill of Rights in the United States of America?
As far as I understand it, "Australia is a party to the seven core international human rights treaties": International human rights system | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au).
"The Australian Human Rights Commission also has the power to investigate and attempt to conciliate complaints of unlawful discrimination under Australia's anti-discrimination legislation." Australian Human Rights Commission | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au).
I understand that "Australia is required to periodically report to and appear before the relevant United Nations human rights treaty bodies in relation to the implementation of the human rights treaties to which it is a party." United Nations human rights reporting | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au).
If there are serious instances of abuse, have you tried these options?
Are there specific issues with the Privacy laws here that you have? Are you concerned about breaches of the current Privacy laws?
Which local council is the issue? If you are not interested in any council (the state of Victoria has 79), you could move to French Island or another area that is not administered by a council: Local Government in Victoria - Know Your Council. The State Government is not afraid of stepping in if there are issues with local councils (e.g. Local Government (Casey City Council) Act 2020 (legislation.vic.gov.au)).
I have never met The Honourable Malcolm Turnbull AC, but I am not certain he should shoulder the blame for everything there. Not sure about the situation in the Cayman Islands, but there are procedures for investigating tax evasion and there are courts here too.
I have no knowledge of what the Chinese police would do to certain MP's, but I highly doubt there would be that kind of arrest at this stage. Which Casino? I must be out of date as I thought this gentleman had something to do with some of them: James Packer | Wikipedia.
I have never met The Honourable Peter Dutton MP either but I am not sure he even speaks German ("Es ist was es ist"). Regardless, I doubt he is in the same league as the 4th Reichsführer-SS (Heinrich Himmler). They would have different answers to the "Jewish Question" to begin. I understand that same-sex marriage may not be something that he personally supports, but he is a member of a democracy and that is now legal in Australia. If he was what you say, why would that be allowed here? Which laws are you referring to specifically, particularly the political incarceration law? I should probably read that one as I say controversial things from time to time. Is there someone in prison at the moment that you are worried about?
What services should a local council provide? There are a number of services provided by the municipality I live in that I think are useful (not just the bins... Although they do that rather well and with clockwork regularity).
What part of the Constitution needs to change? I am always open to change. I might even support a referendum about something like a Bill of Rights (perhaps without the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." I still remember the victims of Martin Bryant). If you did want to propose such a thing, without the right to bear arms, you might find many Human Rights activists behind you, but, that is, if you think what is currently done is insufficient.
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Sid E
Jun 29, 2021, 6:41:10 AM6/29/21
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FIXATED PERSONS UNIT! OPEN UP!
While you are both correct mostly, David clearly understands the right words that the goonbags in power will listen to.
If we want to change the constitution, we need to first understand the specifics, and then address what exactly needs to change. No one will learn this after 8 years of law school, it's complicated...
A Bill of Rights sounds like an excellent idea, however I disagree with you on the 2A. Better gun control than Port Authur era would certainly be needed though. 2A was written to protect 1A.
Also
What used to be government is now privatized, it's capitalism infecting the government and exploiting it. When a corporation is held accountable for something no one really is, just a bunch of board members and a dollar figure.
It doesn't matter which side you're on, they are all corrupt as fuck. You can speak to a supporter of any major party, and they will have dirt on the "other" party's members. Then say they are telling the truth not the "other" party.
It's good to see some proactive discussion about issues, because that's where the real change will happen, not relying on some shitty political party to do it.
We've manage to rename a cheese lately, how does that rate on the scale of progress?
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ad...@reviews.wox.org
Jun 29, 2021, 11:36:02 PM6/29/21
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The human rights thing just needs
enough people to sit down with a politician and get it done. The
trouble is there are so many little "authoritarian" loopholes in
our laws at the moment the two would directly contradict each
other, it would require a complete rewrite (or revert) of
Australian law in general too.
As for the council rates thing. I just hate that we pay rent on property we own. All this rhetoric of sustainability, reuse, recycle, upcycle, growing your own or going off grid. It means nothing because if you are entirely self sufficient - but perhaps have little to no income - the rates mean you are always losing money - no mater what you do. Its by definition a bad design, systematically unfair.
With regard to the political incarceration thing - there was a change made (which in our more active foggy distant past on this mailing list we may have even discussed) to the national security legislation, which added a curiously open ended revision that gave a politician the power to report someone to domestic security authorities, (eg asio) and they could be (along with anyone even remotely associated with the incident) picked up and incarcerated indefinately under the guise of national security.
It even had complimentary legislation that related to people talking out against the government or policy added to another bill. Technically political satire or critisism in Australia is classified treason or insurrection. (what the hell!) Just it is rare anyone enforces it. (she'll be right mate) There was also some unrelated anti-whistleblower stuff that throws all sorts of worms in that can of nightmares added at another time too. You would think this was a communist dystopia not a free country. Our laws are in direct contractiction to our populations actual behaviour.
I mean so open ended, with the bills powers combined - even the flimsiest pretext could be used - and they could round up anyone even remotely associated with them.
A valid worst case scenario could be for example:
A journalist writes an expose' about the misconduct of a politician. Because that politician is by definition part of the government - it automatically has national security implications. Said politician then using the provisions related to punishing anti-government rhetoric, and the national security provision that allows a politician (or any "government official" as I recall the wording went - a common theme in Australian law, the same term is used on who is allowed to access our wiretapped meta data) to indicate a given person is a political threat then requires ASIO or any valid national security or anti-terrorist officer to detain and incarcerate said person until told otherwise. (same thing we do to immigrants.. I wonder if it is related.. politicians insist boat people "might be terrorists" so we lock them all up forever)
As for the council rates thing. I just hate that we pay rent on property we own. All this rhetoric of sustainability, reuse, recycle, upcycle, growing your own or going off grid. It means nothing because if you are entirely self sufficient - but perhaps have little to no income - the rates mean you are always losing money - no mater what you do. Its by definition a bad design, systematically unfair.
With regard to the political incarceration thing - there was a change made (which in our more active foggy distant past on this mailing list we may have even discussed) to the national security legislation, which added a curiously open ended revision that gave a politician the power to report someone to domestic security authorities, (eg asio) and they could be (along with anyone even remotely associated with the incident) picked up and incarcerated indefinately under the guise of national security.
It even had complimentary legislation that related to people talking out against the government or policy added to another bill. Technically political satire or critisism in Australia is classified treason or insurrection. (what the hell!) Just it is rare anyone enforces it. (she'll be right mate) There was also some unrelated anti-whistleblower stuff that throws all sorts of worms in that can of nightmares added at another time too. You would think this was a communist dystopia not a free country. Our laws are in direct contractiction to our populations actual behaviour.
I mean so open ended, with the bills powers combined - even the flimsiest pretext could be used - and they could round up anyone even remotely associated with them.
A valid worst case scenario could be for example:
A journalist writes an expose' about the misconduct of a politician. Because that politician is by definition part of the government - it automatically has national security implications. Said politician then using the provisions related to punishing anti-government rhetoric, and the national security provision that allows a politician (or any "government official" as I recall the wording went - a common theme in Australian law, the same term is used on who is allowed to access our wiretapped meta data) to indicate a given person is a political threat then requires ASIO or any valid national security or anti-terrorist officer to detain and incarcerate said person until told otherwise. (same thing we do to immigrants.. I wonder if it is related.. politicians insist boat people "might be terrorists" so we lock them all up forever)
The open ended aspects also allows the
situation that lets say the person was detained while attending
the local hair dresser. The powers in the legislation would also
allow detaining all the people present in the hair dresser, and
anyone on the street that happened to be passing by and witnessed
the incident to all likewise be detained too, and anyone that
person shares a household or workplace with. (there was a
similar abuse of this law back when the ALP discovered the liberal
party had been covering up the fact that NBN co had done a cost
analysis and found thin fibre was cost effective compared to
copper on new installs, and had federal authorities raid the
Labour party offices to find out who had "talked" - in effect the
party in power, raided the offices of the opposition for doing
their job - ye.. thats not scary at all.. )
Imagine if laws like this existed back when Rosa Parks was around... the entire civil rights movement would have ceased to exist in a single raid.
There was also no requirement for due process. Basically in a nutshell the changes meant: if a politician or government official doesnt like a person - citing "national security" they can have them investigated and locked up for life with no charges or evidence. In practice no politician is stupid or heartless enough to do it... (other than border protection) except....
The journalist incident the other week for example - was the first time (at least that made official record) where the anti-terrorism department had actually been called in by a government official using the powers of that bill. It was only dumb luck the officers at the time were not properly trained to be familiar with the powers they actually had - they appeared to be acting under normal federal officer operating procedures - which is why they only went after the phone, instead of simply making the entire household "dissappear"
I suspect the relevent anti-terrorism clerical department (up until that point a purely administrative paperwork/desk job) was caught short when a politician actually tried to use the powers of that legislation and simply allocated the first couple of federal officers they could spare and sent them out - and they acted on their normal federal police training.
It could have been a lot worse. 2600 over the last 3 decades spotted quite a lot of sneaky authoritarian powers sneaked into Australian laws. Some is probably in the google groups archive.
Imagine if laws like this existed back when Rosa Parks was around... the entire civil rights movement would have ceased to exist in a single raid.
There was also no requirement for due process. Basically in a nutshell the changes meant: if a politician or government official doesnt like a person - citing "national security" they can have them investigated and locked up for life with no charges or evidence. In practice no politician is stupid or heartless enough to do it... (other than border protection) except....
The journalist incident the other week for example - was the first time (at least that made official record) where the anti-terrorism department had actually been called in by a government official using the powers of that bill. It was only dumb luck the officers at the time were not properly trained to be familiar with the powers they actually had - they appeared to be acting under normal federal officer operating procedures - which is why they only went after the phone, instead of simply making the entire household "dissappear"
I suspect the relevent anti-terrorism clerical department (up until that point a purely administrative paperwork/desk job) was caught short when a politician actually tried to use the powers of that legislation and simply allocated the first couple of federal officers they could spare and sent them out - and they acted on their normal federal police training.
It could have been a lot worse. 2600 over the last 3 decades spotted quite a lot of sneaky authoritarian powers sneaked into Australian laws. Some is probably in the google groups archive.
I think the biggest roadblock we have -
which I have encountered quite a lot in discussing these things -
is cognitive dissonance.
These powers are so aburdly open ended, are so authoritarian, so unthinkable and have so much over reach that many people in the boomer generation are just physically and intellectually incapable of processing the possibility these things could even be allowed to exist, and cant beleive it. From what i read, I am not the only person to notice this too.
My own aunt for example had visited China, she is now convinced Australia should use the same system and just could not processes the fact that the public tourist areas are so heavily curated; and carefully controlled you may as well be visiting Disney Land for the amount of fantasy involved. She actually legitimately thought everyone in China spoke english, and that the shops are all that cheap, and never crowded, that a public transport bus would be available for her own exclusive use, and that their system is so good and well connected that any random stranger on the street legitimately could push a button on their phone and tell her bus driver exactly where to collect her and drive the bus over. That all the "helpful strangers" in perfect clothes with no hair out of place that always helpfully wandered over and offered to give directions or call her bus - were there purely by cooncidence.
It actually caused her physical distress when I tried to point out to her that all the people she encountered were working for the Chinese government to keep an eye on her and be generally hospitable.
She didn't beleive they would not have allowed her to go anywhere sensitive, she just assumed there was nothing bad to see, not that they were hiding it from her. The fact they all knew the number of her bus driver, they all spoke english, (even tho the language is spoken by a minority at best) and they always seemed to be standing helpfully nearby to serve her every whim, and knew where she needed to be - did not compute as being deliberate. You find the same thing in North Korea - only its is more obvious, since the "bad areas" have to be driven past on a given tour - there is too many to hide.
When you speak to actual residents in China, you hear a different story, crime, insurance fraud, poor quality retail outlets.. in otherwords no better or worse than any city you would find in the rest of the world for the most part - and almost nobody speaks english.
I likewise hit the same wall when talking to a mature gentleman who I see on a weekly basis, who only beleives what he see's on TV news basically. When i point out things they don't show he mentally isn't able to cope with it - and even when I show news articles or physical evidence he is skeptical, or doesn't want to beleive it- yet unconditionally accepts even the absurdest ideas pushed by popular media.
Ironically enough you go one generation older, anyone who lived through WW2 and they are right on top of the money. they can see it for what it is.. too bad they are dying by the millions of Covid. Or you go younger, and they either dont care or take the lack of freedoms and privacy for granted as they never experienced the freedoms they no longer have to begin with.
These powers are so aburdly open ended, are so authoritarian, so unthinkable and have so much over reach that many people in the boomer generation are just physically and intellectually incapable of processing the possibility these things could even be allowed to exist, and cant beleive it. From what i read, I am not the only person to notice this too.
My own aunt for example had visited China, she is now convinced Australia should use the same system and just could not processes the fact that the public tourist areas are so heavily curated; and carefully controlled you may as well be visiting Disney Land for the amount of fantasy involved. She actually legitimately thought everyone in China spoke english, and that the shops are all that cheap, and never crowded, that a public transport bus would be available for her own exclusive use, and that their system is so good and well connected that any random stranger on the street legitimately could push a button on their phone and tell her bus driver exactly where to collect her and drive the bus over. That all the "helpful strangers" in perfect clothes with no hair out of place that always helpfully wandered over and offered to give directions or call her bus - were there purely by cooncidence.
It actually caused her physical distress when I tried to point out to her that all the people she encountered were working for the Chinese government to keep an eye on her and be generally hospitable.
She didn't beleive they would not have allowed her to go anywhere sensitive, she just assumed there was nothing bad to see, not that they were hiding it from her. The fact they all knew the number of her bus driver, they all spoke english, (even tho the language is spoken by a minority at best) and they always seemed to be standing helpfully nearby to serve her every whim, and knew where she needed to be - did not compute as being deliberate. You find the same thing in North Korea - only its is more obvious, since the "bad areas" have to be driven past on a given tour - there is too many to hide.
When you speak to actual residents in China, you hear a different story, crime, insurance fraud, poor quality retail outlets.. in otherwords no better or worse than any city you would find in the rest of the world for the most part - and almost nobody speaks english.
I likewise hit the same wall when talking to a mature gentleman who I see on a weekly basis, who only beleives what he see's on TV news basically. When i point out things they don't show he mentally isn't able to cope with it - and even when I show news articles or physical evidence he is skeptical, or doesn't want to beleive it- yet unconditionally accepts even the absurdest ideas pushed by popular media.
Ironically enough you go one generation older, anyone who lived through WW2 and they are right on top of the money. they can see it for what it is.. too bad they are dying by the millions of Covid. Or you go younger, and they either dont care or take the lack of freedoms and privacy for granted as they never experienced the freedoms they no longer have to begin with.
That is not right.
On 29/06/2021 3:24 pm, David Fernée wrote:
Please forgive me for being facetious. I do understand these issues are very important and perhaps attempted humour was not the best tool to use.
Regarding Human Rights, how would you see it done? Would you want an amendment to the Constitution similar to the Bill of Rights in the United States of America?
As far as I understand it, "Australia is a party to the seven core international human rights treaties": International human rights system | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au).
"The Australian Human Rights Commission also has the power to investigate and attempt to conciliate complaints of unlawful discrimination under Australia's anti-discrimination legislation." Australian Human Rights Commission | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au).
I understand that "Australia is required to periodically report to and appear before the relevant United Nations human rights treaty bodies in relation to the implementation of the human rights treaties to which it is a party." United Nations human rights reporting | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au).
If there are serious instances of abuse, have you tried these options?
Are there specific issues with the Privacy laws here that you have? Are you concerned about breaches of the current Privacy laws?
Which local council is the issue? If you are not interested in any council (the state of Victoria has 79), you could move to French Island or another area that is not administered by a council: Local Government in Victoria - Know Your Council. The State Government is not afraid of stepping in if there are issues with local councils (e.g. Local Government (Casey City Council) Act 2020 (legislation.vic.gov.au)).
I have never met The Honourable Malcolm Turnbull AC, but I am not certain he should shoulder the blame for everything there. Not sure about the situation in the Cayman Islands, but there are procedures for investigating tax evasion and there are courts here too.
I have no knowledge of what the Chinese police would do to certain MP's, but I highly doubt there would be that kind of arrest at this stage. Which Casino? I must be out of date as I thought this gentleman had something to do with some of them: James Packer | Wikipedia.
I have never met The Honourable Peter Dutton MP either but I am not sure he even speaks German ("Es ist was es ist"). Regardless, I doubt he is in the same league as the 4th Reichsführer-SS (Heinrich Himmler). They would have different answers to the "Jewish Question" to begin. I understand that same-sex marriage may not be something that he personally supports, but he is a member of a democracy and that is now legal in Australia. If he was what you say, why would that be allowed here? Which laws are you referring to specifically, particularly the political incarceration law? I should probably read that one as I say controversial things from time to time. Is there someone in prison at the moment that you are worried about?
What services should a local council provide? There are a number of services provided by the municipality I live in that I think are useful (not just the bins... Although they do that rather well and with clockwork regularity).
What part of the Constitution needs to change? I am always open to change. I might even support a referendum about something like a Bill of Rights (perhaps without the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." I still remember the victims of Martin Bryant). If you did want to propose such a thing, without the right to bear arms, you might find many Human Rights activists behind you, but, that is, if you think what is currently done is insufficient.
David Fernée
Jun 30, 2021, 12:21:18 AM6/30/21
to 2600-au...@googlegroups.com
It appears the Castan Centre is having a Human Rights Law Conference on Friday 23 July 2021, 9.00am - 3.30pm (AEST) for free via Zoom: Castan Centre - Human Rights Law Conference - Castan Centre for Human Rights Law (monash.edu). Could be a few interesting insights there and the opportunity to raise some questions with people who are likely better equipped to answer them than I am. If they do not know the answer or the queries are not in their domain, they may be able to refer you to some people who can help with these issues.
Speakers listed on the website are:
- Kristen Hilton, Former Victorian Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commissioner;
- June Oscar AO, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner;
- Dr Tania Penovic, Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Law, Monash University, Convenor of the Gender and Sexuality Program Research Group;
- Leilani Farha, Global Director of The Shift, Former United Nations Special Rapporteur on Adequate Housing;
- Professor Jean Allain, Faculty of Law, Monash University, Covenor of the Economic, Social and Cultural Rights Program Research Group, Castan Centre for Human Rights Law;
- Emeritus Professor Rosalind Croucher AM, President, Australian Human Rights Commission; and
- Professor The Hon. Kevin H Bell AM QC, Director of the Castan Centre for Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, Monash University, Convenor of Charters of Rights Program Research Group.
Moderators:
- Professor Hilary Charlesworth, Melbourne Laureate Professor, Co-Director of Studies, Human Rights Law, Melbourne Law School;
- Dr Jessie Hohmann, Associate Professor, UTS Faculty of Law; and
- The Hon. Pamela Tate SC, Adjunct Professor, Faculty of Law, Monash University, member of the Castan Centre for Human Rights Law, Former Justice of the Court of Appeal of the Supreme Court of Victoria.
Rapporteurs:
- Daye Gang, Barrister, Consultant in human rights and North Korea and PhD candidate (restorative justice and victims of sexual and family violence);
- Andrea Olivares-Jones, Policy Manager, Castan Centre for Human Rights Law; and
- Hugh de Kretser, Executive Director, Human Rights Law Centre.
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Sid E
Jun 30, 2021, 3:19:26 AM6/30/21
to 2600-australia
The most frustrating thing about the whole friendlyjories issue is the misinformation surrounding who he is, what he does, and the way and how the arrests were conducted.
A huge problem is they aren't actually journalists, Shanks was a child model, and started doing paid videos for the ATCU, GetUp and Greenpeace (according to Wikipedia - I'm sure there was others too). He's not held under journalist standards OR protections, unlike say the Chasers crew who ARE proper journalists, and very good at it.
Journalists are meant to be non-bias, we all know they generally aren't - however they can't just say something defamatory about someone without evidence. Shanks is clearly bias towards one party, and rubs shoulders with some powerful people, so making repeated jabs at a specific MP from the other side made it look suss enough for the cops to justify the FPIU. Is it right? No - probably not, but it's the risk you take when trying to get biased content.
Now lets move on to the whole arrest, including the video he put out. Good Sir Wox, a large chunk of what you wrote was complaining about the fact the police can just came and take you away for no reason. This is true, and you are correct it's something likely in the archives, I can remember one of the laws was put in on Melbourne Cup day to avoid media attention.
In the "arrested" video Shanks pushes the message that you can't just be taken from your home. That's not true, as we all know due to the draconian laws, however he's telling people otherwise and misleading them into thinking we have freedoms we really don't - and maybe should be fighting to get back.
The arrest itself was a dramatic show, Kristo was already walking out the door peacefully and would not have been cuffed up - if he didn't turn around and start screaming MUM TAKE MY PHONE over and over. In my opinion that's one of the dumbest ways you could handle being arrested. His mums already recording, and Kristo turns around and smiles for the camera before the whole commotion went down.
So, now you have 3 pissed off FPU agents, and a phone which is red hot evidence being used to play pass the parcel. How exactly did they expect the situation to end? They didn't care about the rest of the family because that specific agency is built for lone wolf style people. If Kristo went peacefully, I wouldn't be able to pick holes in all this, so that's going to look bad on his behalf.
And this is the issue, you could almost get done for resisting arrested and interfering with evidence or something from the looks of the video. Meanwhile they didn't take any of his other personal belongings like laptop/PC/books? If he truly was a lone wolf threat they would have cleaned him for all his data, but they just wanted to serve the restraining order. A job that uniformed officers would normally do, and should have done on this occasion.
How do we stick up for political commentary and comedy, if they aren't going to act in a professional manner? It could happen to any YouTube content creator here, but the focus is violence which could have been avoided - not the fact the FPIU went after a comedian.
The restraining order (IVO/AVO not sure), is complete bullshit, if you think someone is stalking then have the 200m distance, but not being allowed to have photos or drawings of a politician is completely fucked. What happens if someone sends him a picture? Is that a crime? What if he buys a newspaper and there is a picture in that - is he breaching his AVO?
There are likely lots of things we don't know yet, I know one of the charges is stalking, and if Kristo has a bunch of photos of Bruz taken from a long distance, and made videos about him, and approached him multiple times on the street, and stayed in his AirBNB - well that's not the best look if ya get me. I'm sure Mr Dave "The Well Spoken" Fernee would know where to find the definition of the charges, and link them neatly - which I CBF doing on my phone... but yeah it's a bit of a clusterfuck on both sides.
As much as I'd like to see the case thrown out, we just don't know what the evidence is.
Anyway, plz dont come at me FPU bros - I deleted all my Tony Abbott photos, even the swim suit edition ones!
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ad...@reviews.wox.org
Jun 30, 2021, 8:51:28 PM6/30/21
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Sid,
Pretty much right on the money. A favourite saying in
Australia, (well for some more alert Australians) and many
of our US counterparts -
"I might not agree with what you are saying - but i will
defend to the end, your right to say it"
The journalist in question was one of the new wave "youtube
wannabes" but that said; lately his type of reporter seems
to be the only type of journalist actually willing to do
their job for the public interest these days. When the
Isaac Butterfields, and honest government commercials
satirists of the world are more trustworthy than people who
have been reporting news their entire lifetime you have to
laugh.. i guess that is the point. What a time to live.
Also thanks Dave Fernee, that conference seems like a good
catch to mention on the list.
Back in the day we used to share a bunch of stuff like
that.. I think it is thanks a larger part to 2600au that we
have a R18 rating for video games now.
What was it Sid - 500-5000 submissions in the last week when
it was being debated in government.. (compared to about 4
shill submissions from chicken littles in all the months prior?)
(Also want to apologise for the verbatim version of my
signiture showing up in some of my previous replies.. you
guys already had a wall of text you didnt need a bunch of
goofy quotes from back when we discussed similar topics in
the past making another wall at the end cluttering up your
smart phone screens.)
Pretty much right on the money. A favourite saying in
Australia, (well for some more alert Australians) and many
of our US counterparts -
"I might not agree with what you are saying - but i will
defend to the end, your right to say it"
The journalist in question was one of the new wave "youtube
wannabes" but that said; lately his type of reporter seems
to be the only type of journalist actually willing to do
their job for the public interest these days. When the
Isaac Butterfields, and honest government commercials
satirists of the world are more trustworthy than people who
have been reporting news their entire lifetime you have to
laugh.. i guess that is the point. What a time to live.
Also thanks Dave Fernee, that conference seems like a good
catch to mention on the list.
Back in the day we used to share a bunch of stuff like
that.. I think it is thanks a larger part to 2600au that we
have a R18 rating for video games now.
What was it Sid - 500-5000 submissions in the last week when
it was being debated in government.. (compared to about 4
shill submissions from chicken littles in all the months prior?)
(Also want to apologise for the verbatim version of my
signiture showing up in some of my previous replies.. you
guys already had a wall of text you didnt need a bunch of
goofy quotes from back when we discussed similar topics in
the past making another wall at the end cluttering up your
smart phone screens.)
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New and improved 2600... well.. ..we drew on some flames and polished it a bit..
--
Google - making sure, life is no more, than 1984...
--
Bill Gates: 640k is more than enough for anybody
PC guy down the road: You will never fill that 10mb Hard disk mate
Abbott/Turnbull: 25Mbps is "more than enough" for the average Australian household.
Turnbull: Actually 10MBs is enough for the average household really.
Abbott/Turnbull: It is cheaper to put in FTTN, you get up to 24mbs/down and 256k up.. we can upgrade it more later...
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