Crack if you can....

[swaminathan aiyar]

Can the auditor guys in this group tell us or of course, anyone can.

This question has become a big fight in my other networks about what is the correct answer.

(This was asked in IAS exam!)

A very simple but confusing puzzle.

A lady buys goods worth rs.200 from a shop. (shopkeeper selling the goods with zero profit).

The lady gives him 1000 rs note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps 200 for himself and returns rs.800 to d lady.

Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the 1000rs note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.

"How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face ?"

A. 200

B. 800

C. 1000

D. 1200

E. 2000

F. Other

What is the  answer ?

[vaidi-idapl]

I would reason like this:

 

The shop keeper has totally paid Rs. 800 to the lady.

He has given her goods worth Rs. 200 to the lady.

 

The shopkeeper has lost Rs. 1000.0 (A, credit balance) + waste Rs. 1000.0

 

The next shop guy gave this shop 1000 and then took 1000 back.  His ledger is net 0. (B)+

 

The lady got cash Rs. 800 and good worth Rs. 200. She has gained Rs. 1000.0 (C, debit balance)

 

All their balance sheets are now balanced.

 

I will vote for C.

 

Vaidi.

What is the  answer ?

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[Srinivasan Kalyanasundaram]

I full agree with Vaidy and opt for option C

Srini

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[Bhoopathy Muthiah]

Swami
The loss to shop keeper is Rs. 2000/-.
Sequence
The shop keeper already paid Rs.800/-as cash and Rs.200/- as goods to the lady.
Now by taking back the fake note from neighbour shop, he paid another 1000 Rs to him. What is left with him is a fake note.
Overall 2000/-
Regards
M. Bhoopathy

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Srinivasan Kalyanasundaram
Sent: 12-04-2014 12:52
To: 1982...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Crack if you can....

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[vaidi-idapl]

Now the fun starts:

 

I think the shop keeper lost 1800 only and not 1000 – remember he kept 200 for himself when he returned 800 to the lady. So, he was giving back  800 of his money and 200 of the next shops money that he took as change for 1000.

 

Siva would probably say that this argument is waste, we will send a nice story to the lady which will make her  feel so good that she will go back to the shop keeper and make things hunky dory again, for all the parties.

 

Vaidi.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/1982batch/8106102002945419868%40unknownmsgid.

[swaminathan aiyar]

Exactly Maams

The guys in the other networks,, all muttakkoos.... are saying its 1000 only.

Puriya vekka mudiyala...

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[Siva Kumar]

Vaidi what about the cost of the goods taken by the lady.

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அன்புடன் 

சிவா 

[Venkatakrishnan Rajaram]

Is it 800 or 1800 considering that a fake note?

Unless he gave to the next unsuspecting customer.....

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[vaidi-idapl]

Dear All,

 

In any of such transactions, there are several ways to analyse: first is to look at the final tally and see that the total gain by all participants is equal to the total loss of all participants and that is the basis on which I posted my first answer.

 

It goes like this:

 

Lady: Profit: Rs. 800 cash and Rs. 200 goods.

         Loss: None.

 

Next Shop keeper:   Profit: 0

                              Loss: 0

 

Hence the original shop keeper has to have lost Rs. 1000 only, since there has been no additional influx of goods or money.

 

 

The second way is to simulate step by step and arrive at the anwer:

 

 

Step 1:  Lady buys Rs. 200 worth goods.

                        At this point:

                        Shopkeeper loss: 200

                        Lady Profit      : 200

 

Step 2:  Lady pays 1000 to shop keeper

                        Lady:  Loss 800

                        Shopkeeper: profit 800

 

Step 3:  Shop keeper gets change:

                        Lady: Loss 800

                        Shopkeeper: profit 800

 

Step 4:  Shop keeper gives change to Lady

                        Lady: No profit, no loss

                        Shopkeeper: no profit, no loss.

 

Step 5:  Next Shop keeper demands 1000 bucks

                        Shopkeeper: 1000 loss

                        Next shop keeper: no profit, no loss

 

Method 3: Factor out the Rs. 1000 issue, assume that the lady buys it on credit, and also borrows 800 from the shop keeper (giving a promissory note for Rs. 1000) – the shop keeper does not have 800 and hence borrows from his neighbor. The lady runs away and the next shop guys asks him for 800 back, which he has to. The shopkeeper is now stuck with a promissory note worth 1000 from the lady (though worth 0 because the lady has run away) and has already spent 1000 bucks (200 to the lady and 800 to the shopkeeper).

 

Any comments?

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[Venkatakrishnan Rajaram]

"How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face ?" 

Nice Analysis Vaidi .

 Swami- Thanks for sharing the question--

- Gross loss ? or Net Loss?

what  are they are looking for will be the answer. ?!!

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[Bhoopathy Muthiah]

Vaidhi
Moonu options kodhuthu thalaya sutha vachite machi.

Regards
M. Bhoopathy

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: vaidi-idapl
Sent: 13-04-2014 08:20

To: 1982...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Crack if you can....

[Ram Lakshminarayanan]

Happy Tamil New year for all those who celebrate.

Regards

Ram

Sent from my iPad

What is the <image001.jpg> answer ?

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/1982batch/246982797247321914%40unknownmsgid.

[swaminathan aiyar]

Vaidhi

Not only  Bhoopathy I too feel the loss is 2000 rupees.

The shopkeeper who was cheated had to give 1000 back to the other shopkeeper since the note was fake.

He gave 800 bucks to the lady thinking change - while actually he was incurring a loss of 800 since the note was fake.

And he gave her goods worth 200

And that lady vanished ( don't ask how much that lady was worth :-) That is out of syllabus :-))

So more seriously Vaidhi the answer is 2000 and yet you are saying C which is only 1000.

Contradiction?

regards

Swami

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[zakir hussain]

This is an IAS exam ?  To chek ur admn quick right decision making
Fake note is an illusion to miss guide u
Shop keeper loss is 200 rs goods and cash 800
Total loss 1000
If the lady comes back he has to rtn the fake note and get a good  note to recover the loss

--

[swaminathan aiyar]

Zakir

Real -world question.. do you think the lady will come back and apologize or fall at the shopkeeper's feet and give back the note?

Seriously? Hell, no. Thats why the answer is 2000. Waiting for Vaidi. Vaidi , the total loss is 2000

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[vaidi-idapl]

Swami,

 

The answer is Rs. 1000 only. Remember your third law of thermodynamics? Analysis is exactly like that – this is the reason engineers do so well in other fields too.

(Non engineers, please excuse…)

 

Vaidi.

 

From: 1982...@googlegroups.com [mailto:1982...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of swaminathan aiyar
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 10:42 AM
To: 1982...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Crack if you can....

 

Zakir

Real -world question.. do you think the lady will come back and apologize or fall at the shopkeeper's feet and give back the note?

Seriously? Hell, no. Thats why the answer is 2000. Waiting for Vaidi. Vaidi , the total loss is 2000

On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 3:05 AM, zakir hussain <hmz...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is an IAS exam ?  To chek ur admn quick right decision making
Fake note is an illusion to miss guide u
Shop keeper loss is 200 rs goods and cash 800
Total loss 1000
If the lady comes back he has to rtn the fake note and get a good  note to recover the loss

On 12 Apr 2014 01:57, "swaminathan aiyar" <swaminat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can the auditor guys in this group tell us or of course, anyone can.

This question has become a big fight in my other networks about what is the correct answer.

 

(This was asked in IAS exam!)

 

A very simple but confusing puzzle.

 

A lady buys goods worth rs.200 from a shop. (shopkeeper selling the goods with zero profit).

 

The lady gives him 1000 rs note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps 200 for himself and returns rs.800 to d lady.

 

Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the 1000rs note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.

 

"How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face ?"

 

A. 200

B. 800

C. 1000

D. 1200

E. 2000

F. Other

 

What is the  answer ?

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[swaminathan aiyar]

Bud

I dont remember the 3rd law and its my lousy memory. Pl refresh.

Ramraj,, Muthu Siva

Your answers as businessmen. I think the loss is 2k only like Boops also said

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[vaidi-idapl]

You can ask the google devata J

 

Total value in the system is constant i.e. value of goods + cash.

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[swaminathan aiyar]

Both...

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[ccpl1 .]

The answer is 1000 only.

In any transaction the nett amount should be zero. If the lady has gained 1000 then the shopkeeper's loss is 1000.

The neighbor shopkeeper has no loss and no gain.

The main which we should remember is law of conservation of energy which states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. I think Vaidi is referring to this as law of thermodynamics.

Regards,

Muthu.

P.S. Ironically a problem which is so clearly accounts oriented, only a few acounts persons in our group has reacted to this problem. Wondering !!!!

[swaminathan aiyar]

Dear Muthu
There are 2 trans in my opinion. Will explain later. As Stalin says in his election speeches..thanks to those who replied and enlightened me. As for some auditors in this forum not replying screw them. Old prejudices, attitudes, hangovers run deep...despite exterior smiles.

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[vaidi-idapl]

Dear All,

 

I am very sorry, but I referred to the third law of thermodynamics to Swami, whereas I actually wanted to point him to the first law which is also called as the law of conservation of energy!

 

Yaanaikkum adi sarukkum – ana, adi sarukkina mattum yaanai aga mudiadhu!

 

 – my reactions on reading Muthu’s mail were really fantastic to review (post facto, of course), which prompts me to write the above sentence.

 

Sorry again guys!

 

Vaidi.

 

 

From: 1982...@googlegroups.com [mailto:1982...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of swaminathan aiyar
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:15 PM
To: 1982...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Crack if you can....

 

Dear Muthu

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[zakir hussain]

Swami

The ? Is how much  total loss
Fake note is illusion
Just imagine
Lady asking 200 rs goods and cash 800 loan to buy other things from the shop keeper
If she don't rtn
Shop keeper loss is 1000
Instead of credit purchase
She gave 1000 fake note

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[swaminathan aiyar]

Vaidi bud Zakir  Muthu

This is my view daa.. Forget this thermodynamics law but what I suggest is...

Look at total loss to shopkeeper. 

He gave a fake note to the other shopkeeper and had to suffer a loss of 1000

He gave this  lady 800 bucks

He gave her 200 bucks.

Forget transaction rules about balancing...yes, they are there, but  look from the shopkeeper's angle. Only because of this lady did he had to undergo a transaction for exchange of a fake note and then paying 1000 rupees back to his friend shopkeeper

They are all related  and hence 2000 is the loss.

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[nandha Dynamic]

Am also with swami. The absolute cash loss to the trader is rs 2k. Rest all is illusion 

Regards 

DNK 

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Have a great day!!

Nandakumar D

98402-98002/dynamic/chennai

[vaidi-idapl]

Oh, I did not know that the lady, shopkeeper and next shopkeeper were related – in what way, swami? I am sure that the lady must have been from Italy, the shopkeeper is the Indian public and the next shop keeper would be a businessman from Italy J

 

Swami, I am coming to Chennai next week – I would be the shop keeper, you be the lady and next door guy be Nanda – we will go through the same transaction and in the end, since you are more honest than the lady, you (and Nanda) will compensate my 2K loss. Lets play this game a few times on 20^th (say 20 times) – you and Nanda can switch being the lady and next door shop keeper. Muthu & Siva can be witnesses.

 

What do you say?

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[ccpl1 .]

Vaidi,

கொன்னுட்டேள்  போங்கோ  

Or should I say

கொன்னுட்டடா பாவி .  ஒரே கல்லில் எழட்டு மாங்கா என்பது இதுதானோ 

முத்து.

[ccpl1 .]

Now lets reverse the question and ask if somebody feels that the total loss to the shopkeeper is rs.2000/-, then somebody would have had to gain rs. 2000/-. Now who has gained rs.2000/-

Muthu.

P.S. Is it probably Vaidi ? ? ?

[swaminathan aiyar]

2 people have gained...lady 800 +200worth of goods and the other shopkeeper who got back his 1000 and his loss came down from minus 1000 spo to speak to zero.Why loss became zero. Answer is because he gave 1000 rupees change to first shopkeeo er thinking note is genuine and then quickly took back the money and converted the loss from -1000 to zero...this is a gain or a positive shift in other words. Hence the kady and the other shopkeeper gained 1000 bucks each...balancing our shopkeeper loss...

[S Anand]

Nice punch dialogue Vaidi. Copying it on my fb. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Anand kumar]

Friends,

 

I have 3 bedroom with A/C and modular kitchen at Sreeperambattur - Temple Green availalbe for Rent.

It has amenities like school, pool etc.,

 

Please refer if you know someone is interested .

 

 

 

Thanks

M.S.ANANDA KUMAR

[Ramraj Naidu]

what is the rent boss?

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+91 9940568886

[Anand kumar]

 

Ramraj :

 

14000 (Fourteen ). Need good people.

emailid: anan...@yahoo.com

From: Ramraj Naidu <ramrajn...@gmail.com>
To: "1982...@googlegroups.com" <1982...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: 3 BKH sreeperambattur

what is the rent boss?

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Anand kumar <anan...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Friends,

 

I have 3 bedroom with A/C and modular kitchen at Sreeperambattur - Temple Green availalbe for Rent.

It has amenities like school, pool etc.,

 

Please refer if you know someone is interested .

 

 

 

Thanks

M.S.ANANDA KUMAR

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[Vijay Krishnasamy]

Anand Kumar,

One of my friends at Sydney suggested to rent my Chennai house through http://www.hanureddyrealty.com/company-profile , as they do it professionally without cheating I believe. I have not spoken to them yet, but in case if you may want to try ?

Regards

Vijay K

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Sent: Friday, 18 April 2014 2:01 AM

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[Vijay Krishnasamy]

Additionally Ramraj and our other friends can tell us through their on the ground experience if these kind of agents are trust worthy for us or not ??

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Sent: Friday, 18 April 2014 5:13 AM