New ww.Lagoa.com

[Daniel Brassard]

Surprise this has not hit the list yet!

The new Lagoa is a different to the MultiPhysics we know inside Soft. Lagoa MultiOptics deals with interactive photoreal cloud rendering, which is mainly targeted at Designers, Engineering and Architecture.

We have launched today, and yes this is a shameless plug  

More information on Lagoa MultiOptics
http://www.lagoa.com

Video
http://vimeo.com/63170024

All the best

Chinny

[Jason S]

Chinny? :)

[Daniel Brassard]

Yes, Chinny joinned Thiago last year on his new venture.

More info here:

http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/02/lagoa-debuts-industry-first-cloud-based-3d-design-platform-raises-1-6m-round-from-500-startups-atlas/

[Javier Vega]

Yes, I tested it and it's very interesting, and works very well. Recommended!

Javier Vega
javier...@gmail.com
jav...@zao3d.com

http://www.zao3d.com

http://blog.zao3d.com

[Steven Caron]

oh my... i think the 'teamup' was trademarked...

https://goteamup.com/

https://www.getteamup.com/

[Nasser Al-Ostath]

The one and the only chinny ??? .....woow...things are getting better around here

[Gene Crucean]

Soo awesome to see this finally launched!!!!!!!!

Tell ICEMAN I miss his sweet face.

--

-Gene

[Nasser Al-Ostath]

Wooooooooooooow ....this is awesome. ... chinny and thiago ... you are amazing

[Christopher]

The browser is doing all that, bullshit :) (Can I use such language on this mailing list ?)

Christopher

Nasser Al-Ostath

Tuesday, April 02, 2013 6:15 PM

Wooooooooooooow ....this is awesome. ... chinny and thiago ... you are amazing

Daniel Brassard

Tuesday, April 02, 2013 4:56 PM

Yes, Chinny joinned Thiago last year on his new venture.

More info here:

http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/02/lagoa-debuts-industry-first-cloud-based-3d-design-platform-raises-1-6m-round-from-500-startups-atlas/

Daniel Brassard

Tuesday, April 02, 2013 4:45 PM

Surprise this has not hit the list yet!

The new Lagoa is a different to the MultiPhysics we know inside Soft. Lagoa MultiOptics deals with interactive photoreal cloud rendering, which is mainly targeted at Designers, Engineering and Architecture.

We have launched today, and yes this is a shameless plug  

More information on Lagoa MultiOptics
http://www.lagoa.com

Video
http://vimeo.com/63170024

All the best

Chinny

Jason S

Tuesday, April 02, 2013 4:39 PM

Chinny? :)

[Matt Lind]

Fuck no.  We don’t tolerate that shit.

 

 

 

Matt

[Leonard Koch]

@Christopher
It doesn't really make any sense to me in that context, but sure, I don't think that there is anything wrong with it.

Is this a re-branding of team-up? (in an airport right now)
I experimented with team-up earlier this year and I was mostly very impressed.
I really liked the global asset management, the interaction through chat and render speed.
The actual user interaction and scene/property management I liked less. That part of it still felt a lot like an early beta.
It will be interesting to see how these shortcomings and strengths have developed.
Congratulations to the team for shipping it.

[Jason S]

A not the browser, but a cloud rendering backend.

Pretty cool shit none the less

[Xavier Lapointe]

I sent the announcement around at work and people were _very_ concerned about this point in the Terms of contract: 4.  Intellectual Property Rights; Restrictions.

Could you comment on that?

[Xavier Lapointe]

More specifically this paragraph:

You hereby grant to Lagoa a non-exclusive, royalty free, paid up, worldwide, sublicensable (but only to affiliates of Lagoa) right and license to use the information that you submit as part of the Services to copy, create, make derivative works of, display, or publicly perform the Renderings or any component thereof, provided that Lagoa shall not use the Renderings beyond the Privacy Settings that You and Lagoa have agreed to as part of the Scope of Services, and provided, further, that the license to any Renderings you have created until such time as you have paid Lagoa for use of the Services shall be irrevocable and freely sublicensable as long as such use of the Renderings is limited to the purposes of promoting Lagoa, Lagoa’s models, Lagoa’s services, or You, as the artist thereof, from the creation of such Renderings until the date that is six (6) months after the expiration or termination of your subscription to the Services.  You authorize Lagoa, on a royalty-free basis, to use and exploit any aggregated data regarding your use of the Services along with aggregated data regarding others users’ use of the Services, so long as such use does not identify You.

[Raffaele Fragapane]

It's pretty standard legal BS for any cloud service, without it they could be sued for holding onto the files they need to render for you with the back-end.

I very, very seriously doubt Thiago plans to use without permission any of the material rendered through teamUp for promotion or sales, but the gray area of cloud services requires some rather (overly) robust wording on the fact they have rights on the information you provide.

They don't acquire the IP or license for distribution in any form with that, those are the clauses you really have to watch out for. The former is impossible (illegal) but constitutes vice of form, the latter can plant a sizeable penis firmly up your colon, especially if you're contracting.

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Xavier Lapointe <xl.mail...@gmail.com> wrote:

More specifically this paragraph:

You hereby grant to Lagoa a non-exclusive, royalty free, paid up, worldwide, sublicensable (but only to affiliates of Lagoa) right and license to use the information that you submit as part of the Services to copy, create, make derivative works of, display, or publicly perform the Renderings or any component thereof, provided that Lagoa shall not use the Renderings beyond the Privacy Settings that You and Lagoa have agreed to as part of the Scope of Services, and provided, further, that the license to any Renderings you have created until such time as you have paid Lagoa for use of the Services shall be irrevocable and freely sublicensable as long as such use of the Renderings is limited to the purposes of promoting Lagoa, Lagoa’s models, Lagoa’s services, or You, as the artist thereof, from the creation of such Renderings until the date that is six (6) months after the expiration or termination of your subscription to the Services.  You authorize Lagoa, on a royalty-free basis, to use and exploit any aggregated data regarding your use of the Services along with aggregated data regarding others users’ use of the Services, so long as such use does not identify You.

--
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

[Xavier Lapointe]

I'm no expert in this so I was just forwarding the response ... from what you've just said it makes sense. And yes, I've no doubt on Thiago q :

Cheers

--
Xavier

[Alan Fregtman]

Even a "simple" service like Dropbox needs legal BS like that just so they can legally produce a thumbnail of a picture in your folders in the web view. They got in trouble a while back when someone saw their wording, but they clarified it later. (Lagoa should probably clarify their stance also.)

[Xavier Lapointe]

I would think it's worth clarifying, because some people seems to be interpreting the wrong way what it actually is. 

--
Xavier

[Thiago Costa]

Hi guys, good points. As Raff and Alan pointed out, these things are quite standard to operate the kind of service we do.

Xavier, you didn't paste the full clause, it reads:

As between You and Lagoa, Lagoa does not claim any rights to any Renderings or the intellectual property that You submit to Lagoa for the purpose of creating such Renderings,

For clarity: Lagoa makes no claim over the ownership of the content nor the Renderings; we agree that you are the owner of the content that you create.  
In this section, we receive a license to use the data you submit to make, among other  things, the Renderings that we are promising to make in the agreement. Without this license, we might not have the right to create the Renderings using the data that you submit and the functions conducted by our servers. If you wanted us to display your Renderings (so that others could view your work), we could not do so without this license.

To protect peoples interests, we also added that there are limits to what we can do with the Renderings you create. First, we cannot use the Renderings beyond the privacy settings that you have agreed to. If the content is made private for example we will not display it to anyone other than who you decide to give access to.

Second – if you are not a paying customer – we can sublicense more broadly, but only for certain purposes (to promote Lagoa, Lagoa’s models, Lagoa’s services, or you) and only for a limited period of time. So it's quite clear what we do.

In other words, we need this clause to operate our service.  We give some free storage and some free rendering, and the only way that we plan to use the content (created by our community) is to help the community itself to grow.  There are no hidden intentions here and we respect people's privacy.

In fact we have some real costumers doing real work in the system – it's been awhile.  So it's not like this is a new attempt. It's something proven to work and for some really large companies.

I hope that clarifies everything.

thanks,

 

-Thiago

[Xavier Lapointe]

I'll make sure to forward this. Thanks!

--
Xavier

[Paul Griswold]

Having tested it for quite a while, I can tell you for sure it is an amazing technology that's only going to continue to get better.  The days of sending your work to the render farm & then playing ping-pong for a while are pretty much over.

-Paul

[Ciaran Moloney]

The days of sending your work to the render farm & then playing ping-pong for a while are pretty much over.

I too think the new Lagoa tech is really promising, but this is just about the silliest thing I've heard all day. Still, it's early....

[Thiago Costa]

Ciaran, why do you think playing ping-pong is silly? :P

We have a nice ping-pong Tournament at Lagoa's office every year, check it out: 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/celesteshankland/sets/72157633122673384/

-Thiago

[Christopher]

I like ping pong, I'll take you on Thiago :) I may embarrass myself the first two rounds, then I'll be warmed up :) Air Hockey too :)

Christopher

Thiago Costa

Friday, April 05, 2013 7:56 PM

Ciaran, why do you think playing ping-pong is silly? :P

We have a nice ping-pong Tournament at Lagoa's office every year, check it out: 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/celesteshankland/sets/72157633122673384/

-Thiago

Ciaran Moloney

Friday, April 05, 2013 9:44 AM

I too think the new Lagoa tech is really promising, but this is just about the silliest thing I've heard all day. Still, it's early....

Paul Griswold

Friday, April 05, 2013 6:05 AM

Having tested it for quite a while, I can tell you for sure it is an amazing technology that's only going to continue to get better.  The days of sending your work to the render farm & then playing ping-pong for a while are pretty much over.

-Paul

Xavier Lapointe

Friday, April 05, 2013 1:21 AM

I'll make sure to forward this. Thanks!

--
Xavier

Thiago Costa

Friday, April 05, 2013 1:18 AM

[Jason S]

While I too have no doubt Lagoa can be trusted, the fact that such clauses can be standard for clouds gives me chills :s

I'm positive that users wouldn't have to 'agree' to too vaguely worded (or lengthy) clauses that may be potentially compromising just by accepting to use it,
and that default privacy settings would be set to what most people would set them to, if they actually made it to the settings page.
(unlike many social networks)

On 03/04/2013 12:04 AM, Raffaele Fragapane wrote:

It's pretty standard legal BS for any cloud service, without it they could be sued for holding onto the files they need to render for you with the back-end.

I very, very seriously doubt Thiago plans to use without permission any of the material rendered through teamUp for promotion or sales, but the gray area of cloud services requires some rather (overly) robust wording on the fact they have rights on the information you provide.

They don't acquire the IP or license for distribution in any form with that, those are the clauses you really have to watch out for. The former is impossible (illegal) but constitutes vice of form, the latter can plant a sizeable penis firmly up your colon, especially if you're contracting.

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Xavier Lapointe <xl.mail...@gmail.com> wrote:

More�specifically�this paragraph:

You hereby grant to Lagoa a non-exclusive, royalty free, paid up, worldwide, sublicensable (but only to affiliates of Lagoa) right and license to use the information that you submit as part of the Services to copy, create, make derivative works of, display, or publicly perform the Renderings or any component thereof,�provided�that Lagoa shall not use the Renderings beyond the Privacy Settings that You and Lagoa have agreed to as part of the Scope of Services, and�provided,�further, that the license to any Renderings you have created until such time as you have paid Lagoa for use of the Services shall be irrevocable and freely sublicensable as long as such use of the Renderings is limited to the purposes of promoting Lagoa, Lagoa�s models, Lagoa�s services, or You, as the artist thereof, from the creation of such Renderings until the date that is six (6) months after the expiration or termination of your subscription to the Services.� You authorize Lagoa, on a royalty-free basis, to use and exploit any aggregated data regarding your use of the Services along with aggregated data regarding others users� use of the Services, so long as such use does not identify You.

[Jason S]

I can see how anything cloud related can be salivated upon by  "master ass owners"
(what do people want more than their own things.. then becoming leverage-able poker chips)

But you can be sure that the (current) terms won't be getting any less confusing/self-contradictory/restrictive  now being under an invasive, all rights reserving machine.

From "Re: New ww.Lagoa.com"

__________________________________

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Xavier Lapointe <xl.mail...@gmail.com> wrote:

More specifically this paragraph:

You hereby grant to Lagoa a non-exclusive, royalty free, paid up, worldwide, sublicensable (but only to affiliates of Lagoa) right and license to use the information that you submit as part of the Services to copy, create, make derivative works of, display, or publicly perform the Renderings or any component thereof, provided that Lagoa shall not use the Renderings beyond the Privacy Settings that You and Lagoa have agreed to as part of the Scope of Services, and provided, further, that the license to any Renderings you have created until such time as you have paid Lagoa for use of the Services shall be irrevocable and freely sublicensable as long as such use of the Renderings is limited to the purposes of promoting Lagoa, Lagoa’s models, Lagoa’s services, or You, as the artist thereof, from the creation of such Renderings until the date that is six (6) months after the expiration or termination of your subscription to the Services.  You authorize Lagoa, on a royalty-free basis, to use and exploit any aggregated data regarding your use of the Services along with aggregated data regarding others users’ use of the Services, so long as such use does not identify You.

__________________________________

On 03/04/2013 12:04 AM, Raffaele Fragapane wrote:

It's pretty standard legal BS for any cloud service, without it they could be sued for holding onto the files they need to render for you with the back-end.

I very, very seriously doubt Thiago plans to use without permission any of the material rendered through teamUp for promotion or sales, but the gray area of cloud services requires some rather (overly) robust wording on the fact they have rights on the information you provide.

They don't acquire the IP or license for distribution in any form with that, those are the clauses you really have to watch out for. The former is impossible (illegal) but constitutes vice of form, the latter can plant a sizeable penis firmly up your colon, especially if you're contracting.

__________________________________

On 04/05/13 1:18, Thiago Costa wrote:

Hi guys, good points. As Raff and Alan pointed out, these things are quite standard to operate the kind of service we do.
Xavier, you didn't paste the full clause, it reads:

As between You and Lagoa, Lagoa does not claim any rights to any Renderings or the intellectual property that You submit to Lagoa for the purpose of creating such Renderings,

__________________________________

On 04/06/13 23:13, Jason S wrote:
While I too have no doubt Lagoa can be trusted, the fact that such clauses can be standard for clouds gives me chills :s

I'm positive that users wouldn't have to 'agree' to too vaguely worded (or lengthy) clauses that may be potentially compromising, just by 'accepting' to use it,

and that default privacy settings would be set to what most people would set them to, if they actually made it to the settings page.

(unlike most social networks)

[Leendert A. Hartog]

The terms you quote are reason enough for people like me to generally
distrust any service like this. The attempts to sugarcoat it as clumsy
wording is a bit problematic too IMHO: if it can be worded better, do
so: word it better! These aren't playground discussions, these are the
basis for binding contracts.
[/rant]

Greetz
Leendert

--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

[Eric Lampi]

This highlights an issue that has been on my mind as of late. I am not directing this at anyone in particular...

How to read a contract.

Art/Animation schools don't teach students anything about how to read contracts or how to manage your intellectual property rights. It's time they started and I will tell you why...

If animators had been treating this like a business and not a hobby starting 20 years ago, the landscape of VFX would look far different today.

If you're tired of creatives getting screwed by slick business people, you have to understand what you are getting yourself into and not be freaked out by legalese.

The fact is, you are not signing over any more rights than what is explicitly written in the contract. They need to be able to store, copy and display the data just for purposes of putting it on the website and their cloud service and there is a time limit for how long they can use it after you stop paying for the service. Also, you privacy is protected because while they collect data on you and other users about how they utilize the platform (presumably for user research), your personal information isn't attached to it. There is no language in there regarding IP or ownership, you have nothing to worry about.

My 2 cents,

Eric

[Angus Davidson]

Hi Eric 

Very good points.

We have been going through this at the moment as a lot of our students have been offered an opportunity. It is funded by what we call SETA’s here in South Africa. They are designed to allow people to be paid for building expertise in a commercial company. A paid internship if you will We got to see the contract when they asked for advice (which is one of the first things you need to be able to do) There was a large amount of legal speak and quite a few points that needed to be clarified. To their credit they did a good job of this.

We are only able to take a small class so we can be a bit more involved. Even so we have had past students getting in over their heads and ending up leaving the vfx community. Its a problem broader then VFX. Universities for the most part teach no life skills, fewer and fewer kids are getting them from parents or their schools. A large percentage of people leaving educational institutions are woefully unprepared for real life.

For us though we have additional issues, the expectations on people in the industry has increased far beyond those of many other industries , and this change has mostly happened over the last 20 years or so.  People have been so busy trying to meet deadlines and do amazing stuff that they have left these issues in the hands of the very people who have the most to gain from not looking after them well.

Eric has hit the nail on the head. People need to be far more circumspect about what they sign, spend more time making sure its in their best interests.

Yes it does need to be brought up the school / university level , but also needs to spread even to people who have been working a long time.

Kind regards

Angus

From: Eric Lampi <eric...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "soft...@listproc.autodesk.com" <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Date: Wednesday 29 October 2014 at 9:39 PM
To: "soft...@listproc.autodesk.com" <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: New ww.Lagoa.com

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