Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners
Le Mod Pol
memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
http://debka.com/
No details available yet
--
LP
In politics, moderation is the best policy.
Norma
"Le Mod Pol" <mod...@igs.net> wrote in message
news:409FB814...@igs.net...
> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
> http://debka.com/
>
> No details available yet
How awful... where are the complainers now? Norma
Le Mod Pol
Le Mod Pol wrote:
> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
Terrorists Open Fire On Memorial Ceremony
May 10, '04
http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
Palestinian terrorists, one of them apparently dressed
as a woman, opened fire at hundreds of Jews who came to
participate in a memorial ceremony for the Hatuel
family in Gush Katif Sunday night. "Bullets whistled
past our ears, and between our legs, and miraculously,
no one was hurt," said Gaza Coast spokesman Eran
Sternberg. IDF soldiers killed two of the attackers.
In response to the attack, IDF bulldozers have, since
this morning, been demolishing 13 houses owned by Arabs
that have been used as cover for terrorist attacks
along the Kisufim Route into Gush Katif. The residents
have long demanded such an action, which was stopped by
past Supreme Court rulings.
"It was a humiliating experience for Jews who come to
remember a slaughtered family to have to crouch and lie
down while terrorists shoot wildly around," said David
Hatuel afterward yesterday's attack. "Why can't the
army protect a road just a few kilometers long? The
houses that line the road must be torn down!" Hatuel
lost his pregnant wife and their four daughters, aged
2-11, a week ago when Palestinian terrorists shot and
killed them at point-blank range on the Kisufim
entrance road to Gush Katif.
The ceremony began at 5:30 PM, at the site where the
five were murdered. Aware of the dangers, the army
provided extra security and decided to allow the
memorial to take place. Gaza Coast Regional Rabbi Yigal
Kaminetzky, Mayor Avner Shimoni and youth director
Amatzia Yechieli addressed the crowd.
Several minutes after the end of the ceremony, in the
midst of the afternoon Mincha prayer, shots rang out -
from two sides: Dir el Balah to the northwest, and Khan
Yunis to the south. The participants immediately fell
to the ground (pictures can be seen on the katif.net
site ), trying to find protected spots behind cars and
the like, and the local security coordinators on hand
returned fire. At the same time, the soldiers in the
area opened massive fire towards the spot where the
shots originated, in order to silence the attackers and
enable the civilians to be evacuated.
Some 40 minutes later, the local council's bulletproof
buses arrived; some of them positioned themselves to
protect the participants, while the others began the
evacuation. Women and children were taken first,
followed by the men, to nearby Kisufim Checkpoint. The
private cars in which the participants arrived remained
along the road, and were to remain there until the army
completes combing the area for additional terrorists.
Shortly after the incident began, IDF forces identified
an armed terrorist in an abandoned building along the
road. An IDF tank fired a shell, killing two
terrorists. A third one is suspected to have taken part
in the attack as well.
Mayor Shimoni pointed an accusatory finger at the
Supreme Court, which has not allowed the army to raze
all the buildings along the route. "The Supreme Court's
hands are not clean," he said, "as it does not allow
the IDF to provide full security for the country's citizens."
Israel Radio correspondent Nissim Keinan noted last
night that the shots from the buildings are a nightly affair.
"We wish to make it clear over and over that the houses
positioned along the Kisufim Route present a concrete
danger to all those who travel on this, the only road
to Gush Katif," writes Moti Sender of katif.net. "The
Supreme Court decision protecting 'innocent'
Palestinians that does not allow the razing of the
structures along the road was made by the same judges
who do not care about their brothers who live in Gush
Katif and who don't try to protect them."
"Even though we're used to unpleasant situations," one
participant said after the attack on the memorial
ceremony, "I must admit that this one was scary. Some
children were crying, but on the way out, Rabbi
Kaminetzky encouraged us with words of strength."
A similar case occurred just about a month ago, when
Defense Minister Sha'ul Mofaz visited the IDF Gaza
Formation headquarters. Residents of Gush Katif arrived
outside the base and protested against his support for
the disengagement plan. Suddenly, terrorists standing
atop tall buildings in Khan Yunis fired at the
protestors, scattering them to nearby sheltered spots.
No one was hurt, and IDF soldiers did not return fire.
TheMan
> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
Were these moronic land stealing Jews on the wrong fucking side of the
border again?? Don't they ever learn!
-TheMan-
Adam Helberg
"Le Mod Pol" <mod...@igs.net> wrote in message news:409FBC40...@igs.net...
>
>
> Le Mod Pol wrote:
>
> > Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
> > memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
>
> Terrorists Open Fire On Memorial Ceremony
> May 10, '04
> http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
>
> Palestinian terrorists, one of them apparently dressed
> as a woman, opened fire at hundreds of Jews who came to
> participate in a memorial ceremony for the Hatuel
> family in Gush Katif Sunday night. "Bullets whistled
> past our ears, and between our legs, and miraculously,
> no one was hurt," said Gaza Coast spokesman Eran
> Sternberg. IDF soldiers killed two of the attackers.
>
> In response to the attack, IDF bulldozers have, since
> this morning, been demolishing 13 houses owned by Arabs
> that have been used as cover for terrorist attacks
> along the Kisufim Route into Gush Katif. The residents
> have long demanded such an action, which was stopped by
> past Supreme Court rulings.
>
Now the Arabs and their UN friends will complain about cruel destruction of homes, for
they are not being allowed free reign to kill Jews.
Adam
Richard Cranium
wrote:
>
>
>Le Mod Pol wrote:
>
>> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
>> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
>
>Terrorists Open Fire On Memorial Ceremony
>May 10, '04
>http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
>
<<<<<Snip>>>>>
I would think that this one act would be sufficient reason to bulldoze
every palestinian building within firing distance of any square foot
of land, traveled at any time, by the Israeli citizenry. In addition,
all palestinian swine that fire at the Israeli citizens, should be
hunted down like the dogs they are, and killed . . . not captured
and/or arrested . . . killed, so they cannot return to do it again.
Now I suppose we'll hear the pallies bitching about the IDF razing
their homes. Fuck 'em all! I hope the IDF is using the new John
Deere Corrie model 'dozers.
Norma
"TheMan" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
news:_0Pnc.31275$TT.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
So you think your opinion about where they should be makes it all right to
murder them? You are worse than the military in Iraq. You don't belong in
a world with people. Norma
>
> -TheMan-
>
>
Le Mod Pol
Norma wrote:
>
> "TheStupidLittleBoy" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
TheStupidLittleBoy is best ignored, He is a fascist
mission poster from Australia. He has no sense and no shame.
Le Mod Pol
The Commie justices of the Israel Supreme Court, some
time ago, had issued an injunction preventing the
razing of those buildings. One of its' number had the
scare of his life, when his car was surrounded by
people protesting that decision that was endangering
their lives.
BlackWater
>Le Mod Pol wrote:
>
>> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
>> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
>
>Terrorists Open Fire On Memorial Ceremony
>May 10, '04
>http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
>
>Palestinian terrorists, one of them apparently dressed
>as a woman, opened fire at hundreds of Jews who came to
>participate in a memorial ceremony for the Hatuel
>family in Gush Katif Sunday night. "Bullets whistled
>past our ears, and between our legs, and miraculously,
>no one was hurt," said Gaza Coast spokesman Eran
>Sternberg. IDF soldiers killed two of the attackers.
How the hell can multiple gunmen fire on a
crowd of hundreds and not HIT anybody ???
Something fishy here ...
Jonsa
"Le Mod Pol" <mod...@igs.net> wrote in message
news:409FB814...@igs.net...
Imagine the outcry if a couple of IDF helicopters just happened to fire a
few missiles at one of those wonderful funeral processions for one of the
dead hamas scumbags. With appropriate intelligence and timing, I bet they
could kill a few dozen of Hamas movers and shakers. Bet it would also stop
large congregations of masked gunmen flexing their muscles for the girls.
Le Mod Pol
Excellent suggestion <G>
Le Mod Pol
They are not noted for accuracy and there was an
element of range involved. AK 47s are useless beyond
50 yards or so
Jim E
"Le Mod Pol" <mod...@igs.net> wrote in message
news:409FB814...@igs.net...
Easy payback, next time the palis have one of their big funeral parades
complete with gun toting terrorists, just roll in the gunships.
Clean the entire street. That will give them something to snivel about for
days.
Jim E
Jim E
"BlackWater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
news:dt10a090rn803c89o...@4ax.com...
Idiots with AK's on full auto, nothing fishy except their thinking.
Good thing palis are too stupid to figure out the sights.
Jim E
>
Jim E
"TheMan" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
news:_0Pnc.31275$TT.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
They learn fast enough, they obliterated the offending structures.
Next.
Jim E
Jim E
"Jonsa" <321a...@sregor.com> wrote in message
news:qcTnc.7276$QaS....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Snake and Nape would work nicely.
Jim E
>
Dave Simpson
> Were these moronic land stealing Jews on the wrong fucking side of the
> border again?? Don't they ever learn!
"The border" = the shore of the Mediterranean in the eyes of the Man
and his terrorist buddies in the Middle East and North Africa
Dave Simpson
JGB
Israel should NAPALM every funeral procession for the Hamas scum it
knocks off.
>
> -TheMan-
Bill Levinson
Richard Cranium wrote:
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 13:32:01 -0400, Le Mod Pol <mod...@igs.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Le Mod Pol wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
>>>memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
>>
>>Terrorists Open Fire On Memorial Ceremony
>>May 10, '04
>>http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
>>
>
> <<<<<Snip>>>>>
>
>
> I would think that this one act would be sufficient reason to bulldoze
> every palestinian building within firing distance of any square foot
> of land, traveled at any time, by the Israeli citizenry. In addition,
> all palestinian swine that fire at the Israeli citizens, should be
> hunted down like the dogs they are, and killed . . . not captured
> and/or arrested . . . killed, so they cannot return to do it again.
Sounds good to me. That is the only thing they understand. When is
Israel going to spray a Hamas funeral with machine gun fire, noting that
the presence of terrorists with AK-47s makes it a legitimate military
target?
I'm ashamed of what some U.S. soldiers did to Iraqi POWs because those
POWs were ordinary men who were probably drafted into Saddam's army, and
they are entitled to the protections of the Hague and the Geneva
Convention. They had nothing to do with atrocities that were committed
by Iraqi terrorists. If our people (or the Israelis) did that sort of
thing to Hamas members or similar vermin, however, I would not give a
damn. If they had actually set German Shepherds on Hamas members or
other terrorists instead of just threatening them, I would not shed one
single tear.
On the other hand, the guards who seemed to be enjoying their work too
much, i.e. were engaging in sadistic enjoyment at the prisoners'
expense, are not the kind of people who should be in any army even if
they were doing it to terrorists instead of POWs. There is a difference
between righteous anger (and revenge) and sadism.
Then again, my opinion is that terrorists should not be taken prisoner
in the first place. Their surrender should not be requested or accepted
and first aid for terrorists should consist of the coup de grace. I hope
the two terrorists who were killed were wounded first, and were then
shot dead while begging for mercy.
Next time, the Israelis should stuff articles made of pig leather (while
making pig noises in case the terrorists don't understand what the
leather is made from) into the wounded terrorists' mouths before
finishing them off. The terrorists deserve whatever they get, and
probably worse.
--Bill
Bill Levinson
Le Mod Pol wrote:
The Polish hero Jarema Wisniowiecki, on discovering that a village's
peasants had robbed the manor (whose family was under the Duke's
protection) ordered his men to search the peasants' houses. If they
found anything from the manor, they were to drive out the women and
children, burn the houses, and "thank the serfs." In the next scene,
screaming women and children are running from the burning village while
the trees display a set of "Tyburn apples" (men hanging by their necks).
See "With Fire and Sword" by Henryk Sienkiewicz.
The Poles thought so highly of Duke Jarema that they elected his heir
Michael Korybut (Jarema having died in 1651) King in the hope that the
father lived on in the son. Jarema was a harsh man who was needed for
harsh times. http://www.omdurman.org/hudna.html
Maybe this is how the Pallies should be treated. If the homicide
bomber's wife knew of and approved her husband's intention, she is
driven from her home, the house is burned or bulldozed, and her children
are taken from her to be raised by foster parents because she is
obviously an unfit mother. Any terrorist's wife is an unfit mother, just
as an American mother would probably lose her children for living with a
drug dealer or violent gang member.
--Bill
Bill Levinson
JGB wrote:
I agree, because those funerals include gun-toting terrorists who are
legitimate military targets. Napalm has the advantage of cremating the
Pallie corpses as well as creating them in the first place.
A drive-by from an armored personnel carrier, helicopter gunship, or
infantry fighting vehicle, or perhaps a blast of 120-mm canister from a
tank, also would work.
--Bill
TheMan
"Norma" <norm...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:109vhrf...@corp.supernews.com...
Norma what happens when a Palestinian tries crossing the border and the
Israeli army catches them? Do they give them a free teddy bear?
-TheMan-
TheMan
"Dave Simpson" <david_l...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:23e7f86e.0405...@posting.google.com...
Nope Jew, the border is the green line as set out in the U.N
The Jews keep going over that line and dying... boo hoo... like anyone gives
a fuck.
-TheMan-
TheMan
"Jim E" <fatboy-p...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2gaj2f...@uni-berlin.de...
Maybe you can set up gas chambers as well...
-TheMan-
Jim E
What, you don't believe in reciprocity ?
Besides, gas chambers are infrastructure intensive, inefficient,
and it's been done.
Jim E
Fay
server.bigpond.net.au:
Why do you not want the Jews to cross the line, but it's ok for the pallies
to cross the line to go to work?
Binyamin Dissen
:>>Le Mod Pol wrote:
Yossi Sarid, Beilin, Peace Now, and Yossi (Tommy) Lapid did not have enough
time to go to court to get Ahron Barak to once again prevent the razing of the
building that shielded the terrorists that killed the Hatuel girls.
Thus the army were able to remove them.
Thus the cowardly arab moslems had to be a lot further away when attempting to
murder more Jewish babies.
:> Something fishy here ...
Try thinking.
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
BlackWater
You've obviously never fired an AK ...
The accuracy is "adequate" and the volume of
fire possible makes up for any inadequacies
that may crop up. What was it Lenin said -
"Quantity has a quality all of its own" ... ?
No WAY they could have missed everybody, unless
the shooters INTENDED to miss everybody.
Which suggests the shooters were Israelis - trying
to stir up something against Palestinians.
TheMan
"Fay" <F...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94E5E72652B...@216.168.3.44...
Because the Pallies got permission
-TheMan-
BlackWater
Please go BUY one of those semi-auto AKs and
practice with it. If you fire really fast the
accuracy obviously suffers, but you can STILL
hit the broadside of a barn - or a crowd of
people about the same size.
This was a scam. They TRIED to miss. The shooters
were Israelis, trying to stir up hatred against
Palestinians.
BlackWater
Experience with firearms is quite sufficient
here. Set the sight for the intended range
and blast away. Random chance ensures that
you'll hit SOMEBODY in a crowd, probably
lots of people.
*I* think the real shooters were Israeli
marksmen - and they missed intentionally.
Binyamin Dissen
:>Binyamin Dissen <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
:>>:>>Le Mod Pol wrote:
:>>:> Something fishy here ...
:>>Try thinking.
Perhaps, now with your gods Yassin and Rantisi dead, it is a little harder to
get an experienced shooter there?
:> *I* think the real shooters were Israeli
:> marksmen - and they missed intentionally.
Don't you and your neo-nazi brothers think that the JOOOOOOOOOOOZZZZZZZZZZZZ
are busy setting up another attack on America?
DonJose
Ukrainian peasants have hated Polish overlord for centuries, at partly
because of Wisniowiecki's behavior - although there were more complex
reasopns as well. Your suggestion concerning treatment of Palestinians
is even more stupid than the way they have been treated by Israel
since 1967.
Bill Levinson
TheMan wrote:
Quite frankly, I would not give a damn what the IDF did to a Pallie who
was trying to infiltrate Israel to commit terroristic actions. They can
give him the Abu Gharib treatment or even worse for all I care.
Terrorists deserve whatever they get.
I think Israel should mine the areas they want to secure and then, when
a raghead gets blown to bits, it will be the action of an inanimate
object. Of course, the minefield should be fenced off on both sides so
no one can claim an innocent Palestinian wandered in by mistake. (It
should also be impossible for a child or a pet that can't read "Danger;
minefield" to enter by mistake.)
--Bill
Bill Levinson
TheMan wrote:
Then I suppose you wouldn't give a f**k if some Israeli vigilantes (or
the IDF) went across the line and did a drive-by of the funeral of a
Pallie terrorist (noting that the attendees are legitimate military
targets anyway) or fired a rocket through Arafat's window.
Q: What do you call a dozen Hamas terrorists rotting in the desert and
feeding buzzards?
A: Barely a good start.
--Bill
Bill Levinson
Jim E wrote:
You know, if you set up gas showers and crematoria as a continuous
process (instead of the batch process the Nazis used), you could kill
and incinerate ten or twenty thousand Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Aqsa Martyrs'
Brigade, Al Qaida, and so on on a daily basis.
Then again, there are perhaps only a few hundred thousand Pallies who
are actually terrorists, so this might indeed be too capital-intensive.
Shooting them and tossing them in ditches is probably more cost-effective.
--Bill
BlackWater
My gods ? Sorry ... but I think the Palestinians are
the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
there. They'll all die with their hands around each
others throats.
>:> *I* think the real shooters were Israeli
>:> marksmen - and they missed intentionally.
>
>Don't you and your neo-nazi brothers think that the JOOOOOOOOOOOZZZZZZZZZZZZ
>are busy setting up another attack on America?
I don't think Jews had anything to do with attacking
America. Go hunt NAZIs elsewhere.
TheMan
Well stop whinging when terrorist U.N violating land stealing Jews get the
shit blown out of them, or shot to bits when they are caught engaging in
illegal squatting.
Good work by the Palestinians on their border controls, I give them my full
support.
-TheMan-
TheMan
Q. How do you know a Zionazi Jew is lying?
A. Their lips are moving.
-TheMan-
TheMan
Well Hitler would be proud of Sharon no doubt, afterall the Zionists used to
collaberate with the Nazi's back in WW2. They both had the same mission, to
get Jews out of Europe.
Who woulda thought the legacy lives on in Zionists today.
-TheMan-
Michael Ejercito
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 13:32:01 -0400, Le Mod Pol <mod...@igs.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Le Mod Pol wrote:
> >
> >> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
> >> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
> >
> >May 10, '04
> >http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
> >
>
>
> I would think that this one act would be sufficient reason to bulldoze
> every palestinian building within firing distance of any square foot
> of land, traveled at any time, by the Israeli citizenry. In addition,
> all palestinian swine that fire at the Israeli citizens, should be
> hunted down like the dogs they are, and killed . . . not captured
> and/or arrested . . . killed, so they cannot return to do it again.
>
> Now I suppose we'll hear the pallies bitching about the IDF razing
> their homes. Fuck 'em all! I hope the IDF is using the new John
> Deere Corrie model 'dozers.
I prefer atomic bombs.
Michael
Le Mod Pol
Speaking of cost effective, set up a pig farm and feed
them to the pigs alive. We could very profitably, keep
Europe supplied with pork products for a few years and
save money on prisons, guards etc.
chris.holt
> Maybe this is how the Pallies should be treated. If the homicide
> bomber's wife knew of and approved her husband's intention, she is
> driven from her home, the house is burned or bulldozed, and her children
> are taken from her to be raised by foster parents because she is
> obviously an unfit mother. Any terrorist's wife is an unfit mother, just
> as an American mother would probably lose her children for living with a
> drug dealer or violent gang member.
I don't understand how you can say that. Surely the children
should be shot, or maybe drawn and quartered. And their
neighbours, since you've burned their houses as well. And
maybe their little dog too, especially if it's named Toto.
--
NS
"Jim E" <fatboy-p...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2gaj2f...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Le Mod Pol" <mod...@igs.net> wrote in message
> news:409FB814...@igs.net...
> > Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
> > memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
> > http://debka.com/
> >
> > No details available yet
> > --
> > LP
> > In politics, moderation is the best policy.
>
> Easy payback, next time the palis have one of their big funeral parades
> complete with gun toting terrorists, just roll in the gunships.
> Clean the entire street. That will give them something to snivel about for
> days.
It's time for Israel to make MASSIVE SWEEPS of the Arafatistanian
Arab squatters' residences and remove all weapons, explosives, knives,
etc, from their midst.
Bill Levinson
DonJose wrote:
Poland could have handled Ukraine better. The problem was that it was
the Commonwealth of Two Nations (Poland and Lithuania) but it really
contained three: Ukraine was not an equal partner.
Wisniowiecki was, however, a very good lord for his own people. He
didn't tolerate criminal activity like robbery or banditry but he had a
reputation for treating his serfs fairly. According to Sienkiewicz, he
shared their hardships when the harvest was bad (e.g. by not requiring
them to pay as many taxes, giving them food from his own manor). He
turned vicious only when the Cossacks began to slaughter Polish nobles
and even members of the clergy (nuns being raped and killed, for
example)-- in other words, when Bogdan Chmielnicki's people began to act
like Palestinian terrorists.
Actually, I think Wisniowiecki was an ethnic Ukranian himself.
--Bill
Bill Levinson
chris.holt wrote:
> Bill Levinson wrote:
>
>> Maybe this is how the Pallies should be treated. If the homicide
>> bomber's wife knew of and approved her husband's intention, she is
>> driven from her home, the house is burned or bulldozed, and her
>> children are taken from her to be raised by foster parents because she
>> is obviously an unfit mother. Any terrorist's wife is an unfit mother,
>> just as an American mother would probably lose her children for living
>> with a drug dealer or violent gang member.
>
>
> I don't understand how you can say that. Surely the children
> should be shot, or maybe drawn and quartered. And their
> neighbours, since you've burned their houses as well.
There are people (e.g. the Romans) who might indeed have done that. They
didn't have much of a terrorism problem.
Common decency says we don't punish innocent people for the misdeeds of
others. Taking the children from terrorist parents is for their own good.
--Bill
Bill Levinson
TheMan wrote:
>
> Well stop whinging when terrorist U.N violating land stealing Jews get the
> shit blown out of them, or shot to bits when they are caught engaging in
> illegal squatting.
>
> Good work by the Palestinians on their border controls, I give them my full
> support.
Maybe the "illegal squatters," as you call them, should engage in a
little ethnic cleansing.
--Bill
Bill Levinson
Le Mod Pol wrote:
Now that is a good idea. The terrorists get turned into the feces of an
unclean animal and Europe gets low-cost pork.
Terrorists also should be processed into dog food. I saw a bumper
sticker today that protested horse slaughter so this would be a very
humane idea.
--Bill
Le Mod Pol
But the pigs do not need processed food. They like it
live on the hoof
norm...@charter.net
Isn't it amazsing that TheMan wishes to confer "teddy bears"? This
certainly say a lot about his seriousness and concern. If the
Palestinians cross the border at the check points there wouldn't be a
need for such a grand prize. Why don't they use the accepted
procedures? Norma
>
> --Bill
>
> http://www.omdurman.org/
Theodore Herzl
>
> >Le Mod Pol wrote:
> >
> >> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
> >> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
> >
> >May 10, '04
> >http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
> >
> >as a woman, opened fire at hundreds of Jews who came to
> >participate in a memorial ceremony for the Hatuel
> >family in Gush Katif Sunday night. "Bullets whistled
> >past our ears, and between our legs, and miraculously,
> >no one was hurt," said Gaza Coast spokesman Eran
> >Sternberg. IDF soldiers killed two of the attackers.
>
> How the hell can multiple gunmen fire on a
> crowd of hundreds and not HIT anybody ???
>
It is very simple, when ever the ZioNazi's squatters want to get their
way, they just frame the Palestinian's for something. Without any
investigation or legal justice for the Palestians, who are denied
their rights under international law, they just raze a few more houses
to make way for an expansion of another illegal settlement.
Of course in a few weeks, they will build new houses for Jews only
upon the ruins of the innocent Palestinian's home forcing them to
destroy even more Palestiian homes. That is the cycle of ethnic
cleansing in their continuing slow Holocaust of the Palestinian people
whose land the Jews are stealing.
Theodore Herzl
> "TheMan" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
> news:_0Pnc.31275$TT.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> > news:409FB814...@igs.net...
> > > Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
> > > memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
> >
> > border again?? Don't they ever learn!
>
> So you think your opinion about where they should be makes it all right to
> murder them? You are worse than the military in Iraq. You don't belong in
> a world with people. Norma
Actually, sadly it does make it OK to kill them Norma, as they are
part of the occupation army, which is invading, occupying and
oppressing the people of Palestine. These people are not innocent;
they are thieves and racists who should not be given one bit of
sympathy if shot and killed while in the commission of their crime.
Think of it as shooting a burglar in house to defend yourself, your
family or your property. The taking territory with civilians who are
trained and armed by the military is a very sneaky and dangerous
technique but no different in result. Why Jews have chosen to
endanger gic
The Palestinian's have every right and moral duty to kill as many
illegal squatters as they can who are invading their homeland and
killing their children. If you are in an active war zone, which the
all the illegally occupied territories are, are the bad guys in
violation of 65 UN resolutions, the UN Charter and IV Geneva
Convention, shooting you is OK.
Norma
"Theodore Herzl" <AntiZ...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a44d57.04051...@posting.google.com...
And I suppose it is just fine that they are now going to bargain with the
pieces of the soldiers bodies???? Get a grip!! This will only make things
worse, if the world lets them get by with that one. If one knows about the
Jewish religion and the importance of burying all parts of the body
together, it makes it especially egregious. But then when were the
Palestinians ever held to cultural/religious correctness??? It is people
like you who defend this that makes this possible and it will escalate more
and more. Norma
TheMan
<norm...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:9abc4e06.0405...@posting.google.com...
Why don't Jews stop breaking international laws and U.N resolutions?
Everytime a Jew crosses into one of the illegal settlement, they are
breaking international laws and the U.N resolution specifically stating they
are not allowed to. They therefore are legitimate military targets, and the
Palestinians can't be blamed for effective border controls. Stop fucking
whinging when the Palestinians take it upon themselves to secure their
borders.
-TheMan-
TheMan
I agree 100%. Just like when a Palestinian is shot trying to cross the
border illegally, why are the rules different for the Jews?
These land stealing invader Jews are in violation of not only a U.N
resolution specifically stating settlements are ILLEGAL but also the geneva
convention which states moving a population into another country is a war
crime. Now the jews will bitch and whinge in their usual fashion but the
fact remains, any illegal settlers are legitimate targets and the
Palestinians have a right to protect their borders.
-TheMan-
TheMan
Simple lesson for Illegal Jew Settlers... stop breaking the fucking law and
you won't get killed.
-TheMan-
BlackWater
>BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message news:<dt10a090rn803c89o...@4ax.com>...
>> Le Mod Pol <mod...@igs.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Le Mod Pol wrote:
>> >
>> >> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
>> >> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
>> >
>> >Terrorists Open Fire On Memorial Ceremony
>> >May 10, '04
>> >http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
>> >
>> >Palestinian terrorists, one of them apparently dressed
>> >as a woman, opened fire at hundreds of Jews who came to
>> >participate in a memorial ceremony for the Hatuel
>> >family in Gush Katif Sunday night. "Bullets whistled
>> >past our ears, and between our legs, and miraculously,
>> >no one was hurt," said Gaza Coast spokesman Eran
>> >Sternberg. IDF soldiers killed two of the attackers.
>>
>> How the hell can multiple gunmen fire on a
>> crowd of hundreds and not HIT anybody ???
>>
>> Something fishy here ...
>
>It is very simple, when ever the ZioNazi's squatters want to get their
>way, they just frame the Palestinian's for something. Without any
>investigation or legal justice for the Palestians, who are denied
>their rights under international law, they just raze a few more houses
>to make way for an expansion of another illegal settlement.
I wouldn't doubt that such things happen. The 'settlers'
ARE pretty aggressive sometimes and ARE convinced that
the whole region belongs to them ... although they can't
seem to find that deed signed by gawd to prove it.
Does it happen OFTEN though ? Hard to say.
>Of course in a few weeks, they will build new houses for Jews only
>upon the ruins of the innocent Palestinian's home forcing them to
>destroy even more Palestiian homes. That is the cycle of ethnic
>cleansing in their continuing slow Holocaust of the Palestinian people
>whose land the Jews are stealing.
The Jews say it's theirs. The Palestinians say
it's theirs. Nobody will budge an inch. No
tolerance, no forgiveness, no compromises. In
the end, they're all gonna die with their hands
around each others necks.
Sheldon Liberman
...except for the the fact that the Palestinians never had any borders,
having rejected time and again offers that would have provided them.
>
>
norm...@charter.net
If all the Settlers moved into Israel proper, then the Palestinians
would start their frequent incursions to murder. What would be our
excuse then? Norma
>
> -TheMan-
Michael Ejercito
Michael
Michael Ejercito
Weaver
> That is the cycle of ethnic
> cleansing in their continuing slow Holocaust of the Palestinian people
> whose land the Jews are stealing.
"Slow holocaust?" Slow? LOL. It's the crappest most incompetent
"holocaust" in history. This claim is just so absurd it barely
warrants a response.
During a holocaust there's a population *decrease*, so maybe you can
explain why the Palestinian population has increased exponentially
since Israel's creation?
Here's a much better current example of ethnic cleansing:
--------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3690557.stm
Thursday, 6 May, 2004, 14:58 GMT 15:58 UK
Darfur's human tragedy
By Ishbel Matheson
BBC correspondent in southern Darfur
'Scorched earth'
For months, the Islamic government in Khartoum, together with
traditional Arab militia, have been accused of pursuing a scorched
earth policy in western Sudan.
Everything we saw, everything we heard, suggests that this is true.
Strung out along our route, are more deserted, torched villages.
In all of them, the signs are of a hasty, panicked departure.
Up to one million people - a sixth of the population of western Sudan
- is believed to be on the move.
The Sudanese of African descent have been "cleansed" from their
traditional lands, forced to become refugees in their own homeland.
--------------
Steve Richter
> >
> >Perhaps, now with your gods Yassin and Rantisi dead, it is a little harder to
> >get an experienced shooter there?
>
> My gods ? Sorry ... but I think the Palestinians are
> the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
> Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
> there. They'll all die with their hands around each
> others throats.
>
Why blame the Palestinians? Blame Israel for conducting the
occupation and the US for paying for it. The violence only began
after the occupation started. Before the SDW, that is the start of
the occupation, Egypt controlled Gaza and did not allow Fatah to
operate there. Then when Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt it
refused to return Gaza. Why? Clearly not for security reasons since
Fatso now says he wants to withdraw Israeli forces from the territory.
-Steve
BlackWater
>BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message news:<glt1a0hrvcu30j0df...@4ax.com>...
>
>> >
>> >Perhaps, now with your gods Yassin and Rantisi dead, it is a little harder to
>> >get an experienced shooter there?
>>
>> My gods ? Sorry ... but I think the Palestinians are
>> the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
>> Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
>> there. They'll all die with their hands around each
>> others throats.
>>
>
>Why blame the Palestinians? Blame Israel for conducting the
>occupation and the US for paying for it. The violence only began
>after the occupation started. ...
"The violence" started well before the creation
of Israel. The Palestinians weren't especially
kind to the Jews, and got increasingly unkind
as the proportion of Jews increased following
WW-2. Once the Jews had enough numbers the
roles of "massa" and "nigger" changed. Now the
Israelis are the powerful elememt and push
around the Palestinians.
I blame BOTH sides. Each has contributed to the
current situation. Each helps perpetuate the
situation. No tolerance, no forgiveness, no
quarter, no compromises, no peace. In my opinion
everyone there is getting exactly what they
deserve - reaping the bitterness they both have
sown and nourished with blood and hatred.
It's an object lesson for the rest of us on
"What NOT to do".
Mack
If you steal someone else's land, there will be lethal consequences
Theodore Herzl
What do you base your assumption on Norma as historically, it has only
been the Israeli's who have made frequent incursions into Palestinian
lands to plunder and steal?
I also believe, while incompetent as an occupation army, that the IDF
would make excellent border patrol agents and be more than capable of
protecting Israel's internationally recognized border from being
breached. The only excuse then, would be the IDF's incompetence in
defending the borders of Israel or lack of training. Besides, if
Israeli's stopped trying to eradicate the Palestinian and steal their
land, there would be a lot less people who want to get revenge for
murders and crimes committed by Israeli's making Israel much safer.
I think Israel is starting to understand that when they are the ones
who are illegally occupying the land of another, that free people in
the world will identify with the Pedestrians struggle for freedom from
an illegal occupation of their homeland much easier than they will
identify with Israel's ambition of taking their freedom from them. I
know if I were a Palestinian living under Israel's brutal illegal
occupation, I would be killing as many Israeli's as possible myself,
who wouldn't?
Le Mod Pol
Steve Richter wrote:
>
> BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message news:<glt1a0hrvcu30j0df...@4ax.com>...
>
> > >
> > >Perhaps, now with your gods Yassin and Rantisi dead, it is a little harder to
> > >get an experienced shooter there?
> >
> > My gods ? Sorry ... but I think the Palestinians are
> > the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
> > Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
> > there. They'll all die with their hands around each
> > others throats.
> >
>
> Why blame the Palestinians? Blame Israel ...
Richter - you are totally clueless. We have a long
record of Arab violence against the Jews in the area
even before 1900, and events like the Abu Musa
massacre, 1929, led by the Mufti Amin al Husseini -
Hitlers buddy.
Then if you want to go further back - in 627 Muhammed
attacked all the Jews in Medina (it was principally a
Jewish center) killed the men and enslaved the women
and children.
Deborah Sharavi
>>My gods ? Sorry ... but I think the Palestinians are
>>the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
>>Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
>>others throats.
condo...@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote in article
<c08fe7b7.04051...@posting.google.com> :
>Why blame the Palestinians?
Oh, right. Pallies are just innocent little lambs who NEVER hurt
anybody, NEVER waved a swastika banner, NEVER praised Abu Ali.
>Blame Israel for conducting the
>occupation and the US for paying for it. The violence only began
>after the occupation started.
There goes Steverino on his favorite hobby horse again. He never
troubled his brain, such as it is, to note that Arab violence against
Jews in Palestine began long before the "occupation".
>Before the SDW, that is the start of
>the occupation, Egypt controlled Gaza and did not allow Fatah to
>operate there.
Steverino ignores facts, as usual. Egypt controlled Gaza for the
simple reason that in 1948 Egypt seized it from the projected Arab
state envisioned in UNGAR 181. And yes, Egypt did allow the Fatah to
operate there, after Terrorfat and his buddies, then in Algeria,
founded it in the early 60s. Fatah received backing from Syria, and
began its murderous raids against Israel in 1965, from its bases in
Jordan, Lebanon and Gaza.
>Then when Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt it
>refused to return Gaza. Why?
Egypt didn't want it.
>Fatso now says he wants to withdraw Israeli forces from the
territory.
>-Steve
Which should make delusional Jew haters like Steverino happy, but of
course, does not.
Deborah
BlackWater
Well now ... two major incidents over about 1300 years
ain't squat - and anything done by a fascists 'buddy'
gets included under Hitlers holocaust rather than
anything unique to the arabs/moslems.
However, Jews did become 2nd-class citizens under
arabic rule - harassed, oppressed, abused. As the
percentage of Jews sharply increased just after
WW-2 the arabs realized they could lose power and
became all the more oppressive.
Of course, militant Jews DID commit a lot of what may
be described as "terrorist acts" against the arabs.
It was push and counter-push. Did the arabs "deserve"
what they got because of the age-old oppression - or
did Jewish activists greatly exacerbate the existing
situation through aggressive tactics ?
Seems like both sides contributed to the situation.
The arabs should have been much more tolerant - like
the Koran teaches - but then people aren't perfect.
Jews could have employed far less aggressive tactics -
especially after WW2 when a more equitible political
solution might have been forged than the provocative
and rude partitioning of Palestine (and subsequent
aggressive expansion into areas outside of the
partitioned zone).
Now, everyone's screwed. The Palestinians are broken up
into many factions - each after a more powerful position
within the Palestinian community. Make peace with one
faction and the others immediately do something to
"stir the pot", "roll the dice", hoping that after
the next big shakeup their faction will rise further
towards the top. Everybody wants to be Arafat.
The consequence of these internal politics is a
neverending series of assaults on Jews. The Jews
are the MEANS to power - a facilitator. Their
reaction to attacks ensures that the proverbial
pot WILL be stirred.
At the same time, the Jews cannot allow such attacks
to go unaddressed. Self-defense IS a human right and
just because Palestinians find it useful to attack
Jews doesn't mean the Jews can or should fail to
react and/or protect themselves. Of course, they
sometimes go BEYOND mere "self defense", into
pro-active 'defense' and outright colonialism. This
serves Palestinian politics all the more.
Unfortunately, the mutually-reinforcing political
harmonic between Jewish politics and Palenstinian
politics has proven to generate a repeating loop
of events that could, in theory, go on forever
and ever. Something in the equation HAS to change,
but I don't see how that can happen. The particular
political/cultural match-up between action and
reaction here is almost "perfect".
In the end, alas, note that there are a LOT more
arabs than Jews and that the Palestinians are
spread about while the Jews are all concentrated
into one small piece of real-estate. That makes
it hard to eliminate the Palestinians - but easy
to target high concentrations of Jews.
Some or another terrorist will eventually score
a few nuclear or biological weapons ... and they
KNOW where the Jews live. The remaining Jews won't
be able to retaliate effectively for the enemy is
fluid, a shadow, and doesn't seem to mind if a
lot of their own 'civilians' die if it will win
the war.
So, I predict Israel will fall and a new Palestine
will emerge. Twenty years ? Fifty ? Hard to say.
So, if the abovementioned 'equation' is gonna be
changed it had better do so pretty SOON and quite
decisively. Can Israel NOT react so predictably
if attacked by terrorists ? Can Israel afford to
REALLY, decisively crush the Palestinians despite
the international reprocussions (including a
nuclear-armed Iran and likely sanctions by europe
and the USA) ?
The lowest-cost solution is to stop playing into
Palestinian politics. That means greatly reduced
reaction to terrorist events and building-down a
lot of the settlements. Defense and security
rather than pro-active or retaliatory attacks.
If Jews don't react, some of the factions will
try all the harder to provoke something (a
recently-seen tactic). It would be a terrible
trial, but the end result would be to break the
cycle. It's STILL a lot 'cheaper' - politically
and in terms of lives - than attempting some
sort of genocide or continuing the current state
of affairs until the "big bang".
If Israel doesn't react like it usually does
then the Palestinian power structure will
stabilize. No more rolls of the dice. Such
stability will produce ONE leader and ONE
government for all Palestinians. THEN it will
be possible to work something out and make
it stick.
Why should Jews bear the burden ? Because they
are a cohesive unit capable of acting in concert.
The Palestinians are not and cannot. One tolerant
faction out of dozens is no help.
Something HAS to be done. Those 'helpless ignorant
arabs' are emerging from their 4th-world cocoon and
becoming a well-armed force aimed mostly at Israel.
Long term, Israel CAN'T beat 'em - so it's going to
have to find a way to end this war before it starts
losing the war. It's going to suck - but ... well ...
such is life.
The USA is going to have to abandon 'pro-active
defense' tactics soon as well and concentrate on
intercepting individual terrorists rather than
blowing-up the countryside. Some WILL slip through
the net and it WILL suck. Still, even we can't
risk really uniting the entire moslem world
against us. If we cannot then Israel surely cannot.
JGB
> The moral of the story for you fucking half-wit Zionists:>
> If you steal someone else's land, there will be lethal consequences<
The consequences for Arabs squatting on Jewish land, and cutting innocent
Jewish necks hasn't even yet begun. Just wait.
Le Mod Pol
BlackWater wrote:
>
> Le Mod Pol <mod...@igs.net> wrote:
>
> >Steve Richter wrote:
> >>
> >> BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message news:<glt1a0hrvcu30j0df...@4ax.com>...
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > >Perhaps, now with your gods Yassin and Rantisi dead, it is a little harder to
> >> > >get an experienced shooter there?
> >> >
> >> > My gods ? Sorry ... but I think the Palestinians are
> >> > the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
> >> > Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
> >> > there. They'll all die with their hands around each
> >> > others throats.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Why blame the Palestinians? Blame Israel ...
> >
> >Richter - you are totally clueless. We have a long
> >record of Arab violence against the Jews in the area
> >even before 1900, and events like the Abu Musa
> >massacre, 1929, led by the Mufti Amin al Husseini -
> >Hitlers buddy.
> >
> >Then if you want to go further back - in 627 Muhammed
> >attacked all the Jews in Medina (it was principally a
> >Jewish center) killed the men and enslaved the women
> >and children.
>
> Well now ... two major incidents over about 1300 years
> ain't squat -
Evidently you do not read well - something to be
expected from the clueless and ignorant jackasses such
as you.
you are just a shiteating troll and I do not take the
bait. e mail me when they let you out of the rubber room
Theodore Herzl
> AntiZ...@hotmail.com (Theodore Herzl) wrote in message news:<3a44d57.04051...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > That is the cycle of ethnic
> > cleansing in their continuing slow Holocaust of the Palestinian people
> > whose land the Jews are stealing.
>
> "Slow holocaust?" Slow? LOL. It's the crappest most incompetent
> "holocaust" in history. This claim is just so absurd it barely
> warrants a response.
>
> During a holocaust there's a population *decrease*, so maybe you can
> explain why the Palestinian population has increased exponentially
> since Israel's creation?
So your argument is that since the world census figures for the number
of Jews in the world increased after WW2 from the census taken before
thew war, that there was no Holocaust of the Jews? You present an
interesting argument, but I doubt the Jews will buy into it.
Jim E
> >> >
> >> >> Barbaric Palestinian gunmen spray Israeli mourners at
> >> >> memorial for Tali Hatuel and four daughters
> >> >
> >> >May 10, '04
> >> >http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com/news.php3?id=62123
> >> >
> >> >Palestinian terrorists, one of them apparently dressed
> >> >as a woman, opened fire at hundreds of Jews who came to
> >> >participate in a memorial ceremony for the Hatuel
> >> >family in Gush Katif Sunday night. "Bullets whistled
> >> >past our ears, and between our legs, and miraculously,
> >> >no one was hurt," said Gaza Coast spokesman Eran
> >> >Sternberg. IDF soldiers killed two of the attackers.
> >>
> >> How the hell can multiple gunmen fire on a
> >> crowd of hundreds and not HIT anybody ???
> >>
> >> Something fishy here ...
> >
> >Good thing palis are too stupid to figure out the sights.
>
> Please go BUY one of those semi-auto AKs and
> practice with it. If you fire really fast the
> accuracy obviously suffers, but you can STILL
> hit the broadside of a barn - or a crowd of
> people about the same size.
>
> This was a scam. They TRIED to miss. The shooters
> were Israelis, trying to stir up hatred against
> Palestinians.
>
Totally unnecessary. They are already universally hated.
Jim E
NS
"Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40A215CE...@sympatico.ca...
That's right, they didn't, and never will. These Arab squatters should
return
to the Arab countries that they left when they invaded Israel's land.
Enough is enough.
NS
<norm...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:9abc4e06.04051...@posting.google.com...
Would START? That's what these Arab squatters DID before the
1967 war to destroy Israel. These slime buckete used to cross the "green
line" and
plant landmines in Israeli roads so that civilians would blow up as they
walked
or drove on the roads.. At the same time the Fedayeens used
to infiltrate from the Egyptian side and attack Israeli civilians
continuously.
It's time for the Arab squatters to get off Israel's land. They are not
welcome.
The Arab/Muslim Terrorists must be captures and snuffed. The Arab/Muslim
Terror supporters must be rounded up and DEPORTED. The rest of these
squatters can either live there peacefully or get the hell off Israel's
land.
If Sharon can't handle this simple task he should resign today!
BlackWater
Ah ... struck a NERVE did I ? Can't bear the TRUTH
that pretty much EVERY racial/ethnic/religious group
has been the victim of violence and oppression
somewhere, sometime, over the past couple millenia ???
Guess we're supposed to forget the Jewish genocide
campaign against the Philistines ... kinda set the
tone for todays treatment of the Palestinians, did
it not ? "God TOLD us to stomp 'em into the dust -
and their wives, their children and their farm
animals and pets too for WE are 'The Choosen',
better than everyone else" .......
Now we see where Adolf got his ideas ...
I'll not deny that the Jews have had it tough - that
they've been more *consistently* persecuted and, at
times, much more *severely* persecuted. But that was
in EUROPE, not in the old homeland itself, not by
'arabs'. That has been pretty low-level until just
recently. 'Arabs' had reserved most of their bile
for christians, 'Crusaders', rather than Jews since
christians had the gall to put limits on the great
march of islam way back when.
So GET OVER IT. The rest of the world is NOT going
to give Israel carte-blanche to treat Palestinians
like they did the Philistines. We don't BUY that
"choosen" crap, we don't RECOGNIZE un-notarized
territorial deeds from gawd and we can't help but
NOTICE that Israelis and Palestinians are EQUAL
contributors to the problems in that region.
Israel is SMALL and, in the end, is gonna LOSE its
war against Islam unless there's a drastically new
approach to the situation. The idea of a "Jewish
State" is as abhorrent as the idea of an "Aryan
State". The Palestinians can no longer be treated
like "niggers", no longer excluded, no longer be
second-class citizens in the land of their birth.
Le Mod Pol
NS wrote:
> "Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40A215CE...@sympatico.ca...
> > ...except for the the fact that the Palestinians never had any borders,
> > having rejected time and again offers that would have provided them.
>
> That's right, they didn't, and never will. These Arab
> squatters should return to the Arab countries that
> they left when they invaded Israel's land.
EGYPT!! - For 30+ years Gaza has been the dumping
grounds used to clear out the overpopulated Cairo slums
> Enough is enough.
--
Le Mod Pol
Nope -- you just highlighted your insanity.
--
Steve Richter
> >>My gods ? Sorry ... but I think the Palestinians are
> >>the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
> >>Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
> >>there. They'll all die with their hands around each
> >>others throats.
>
> condo...@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote in article
> <c08fe7b7.04051...@posting.google.com> :
> >Why blame the Palestinians?
>
> Oh, right. Pallies are just innocent little lambs who NEVER hurt
> anybody, NEVER waved a swastika banner, NEVER praised Abu Ali.
Right, and Bill Kristol is a Republican because he praises GWB.
>
> >Blame Israel for conducting the
> >occupation and the US for paying for it. The violence only began
> >after the occupation started.
>
> There goes Steverino on his favorite hobby horse again. He never
> troubled his brain, such as it is, to note that Arab violence against
> Jews in Palestine began long before the "occupation".
you never dispute or counter the numbers. 4 Israeli civilians, 14
total Israelis killed by Palestinian guerrilla attacks in the 30
months prior to the SDW. You've lost more in Gaza in the last 2 weeks
than you did in how many years before the occupation??
> >Before the SDW, that is the start of
> >the occupation, Egypt controlled Gaza and did not allow Fatah to
> >operate there.
>
> Steverino ignores facts, as usual. Egypt controlled Gaza for the
> simple reason that in 1948 Egypt seized it from the projected Arab
> state envisioned in UNGAR 181. And yes, Egypt did allow the Fatah to
> operate there, after Terrorfat and his buddies, then in Algeria,
> founded it in the early 60s. Fatah received backing from Syria, and
> began its murderous raids against Israel in 1965, from its bases in
> Jordan, Lebanon and Gaza.
Where is the definitive historical study of this issue? Where is the
record of the internal GOI debate on whether to occupy the territories
and why? The two latest poorly written books I am reading on the SDW
period, one by Jon Kimche, the other by Avi Shlaim, portray an Israel
with very weak political leadership at that time. There does not
appear to have been a plan for how to handle the territories.
from "The Iron Wall" by Avi Shlaim
"... It was only after military intelligence reported hours later that
King Hussein had ordered his forces to retreat across the river that
Dayan ordered the capture of the entire West Bank. That evening Dayan
met with senior officers to consider these unexpected developments.
"How do we control a million Arabs?" asked Yitzhak Rabin with
reference to the inhabitants of the West Bank. "One million, two
hundred and fifty thousand," corrected a staff officer. It was a
question to which no one had an answer. ..."
Israel had before the occupation what it needs now. Arab states to
control the territories. When raids occur Israel responds
proportionally against the Arab state. Over time the Palestinians
identify and integrate more and more with the adjacent Arab state and
the attacks on Israel lessen.
>
> >Then when Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt it
> >refused to return Gaza. Why?
>
> Egypt didn't want it.
says who? and why? An independent Gaza has to be more trouble to
Egypt than if it is incorporated. Israel can hold Egypt responsible
either way.
>
> >Fatso now says he wants to withdraw Israeli forces from the
> territory.
> >-Steve
>
> Which should make delusional Jew haters like Steverino happy, but of
> course, does not.
Fatso's plan for Gaza looks like the Allon plan for the WB. Israel
controls the perimeter, leaving the arabs inside to stew in a giant
occupation camp. A short term solution with terrible long term
implications. How many off camera screams do Jews need to hear before
they give up the occupation?
-Steve
Dave Simpson
> Nope Jew, the border is the green line as set out in the U.N
Doubly wrong, dunce. I'm not Jewish, and Israel is not obliged
legally or for any other reason to retreat to the Green Line.
> The Jews keep going over that line and dying... boo hoo... like anyone gives
> a fuck.
You probably don't -- you sympathize with terrorist vermin, hate the
West.
Dave Simpson
BlackWater
Fume away ... it won't make things any better for Israel.
It's in a war it can't really win - so it needs to END
the war before it truely, seriously, loses. Palestinians
and moslems are ALL AROUND, yet the radicals present few
targets for even Israels nuclear weapons. They'll give
Israel the death of a thousand cuts at the very least
and there's nothing Israel can do about it unless it
radically changes it's approach to Palestinians and
non-Jews in general.
Hey ... when can we expect a Palestinian to become
prime-minister of Israel - or are non-Jews always
gonna be 2nd-class and need not apply for high
office in the Israeli government ? In the US, at
least we know Colin Powell COULD have won the
presidency had he run in 2000 and we EXPECT Hillary
Rodham to become president in 2008 ... so I think
we've conquered our last social frontiers. When
will Israel become inclusive enough so the local
arabs feel PART of the process and society there ???
Until they do, forget any hopes of peace.
Binyamin Dissen
:> Fume away ... it won't make things any better for Israel.
:> It's in a war it can't really win - so it needs to END
:> the war before it truely, seriously, loses.
Exactly.
Israel should stop paying attention to KKKlansmen and other who wish for her
destruction, and apply the needed pressure to stop the cowardly arab moslems.
If that means that there are many cowardly arab moslem casualties, so be it.
When the cowardly arab moslems build a munitions factory in the middle of
their neighbors, Israel should give a ten minute warning and then blast the
area. No need to risk Jewish lives to avoid cowardly arab moslem deaths.
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
BlackWater
Sounds good, but it doesn't seem to WORK. They just
build another munitions factory, and another and
another ... and every strike against the factories
just plays into the hands of the radical factions.
In short, the aggressive approach doesn't seem to
achieve the desired results in this particular
conflict. They strike, Israel strikes - on and
on forever. Make peace with one faction and the
others, afraid of becoming nobodies, launch
attacks until Israel does something to get the
whole vengance thing started again.
The name of the game is "stir the pot". The goal
is to get YOUR faction higher up in the power
heirarchy. In defending itself, Israel winds up
helping the radical factions achieve their
political goals relative to the other factions.
They're fighting each other politically as much
as they're fighting Israel militarily.
It's all settled into a self-perpetuating pattern.
Unless the underlying equation can be changed
significantly, this will still be going on, with
few variations, a century from now. The situation
in northern Ireland is pretty much the same, a
neverending loop, a sort of 'meme' passed down
from generation to generation.
The question is WHAT can change the equation. Use
too much force and Israels allies will abandon them
and Israel isn't that big a country relative to
its arab neighbors. There's nobody to nuke because
the radicals are spread-out all over, both inside
and outside Israels borders. The terrorists will
peck Israel to death, a little at a time.
If, as I suggested, Israel gets attacked so often
because it's reaction is an essential ingredient
in Palestinian politics then the width, breadth
and style of the "reaction" needs to be changed
so it's no longer a launching platform for every
factions political ambitions.
The USA cannot sustain the sort of pro-active 'defense'
we've been employing for much longer. Even WE can't
afford what it's causing - the entire moslem world
uniting against us. If we can't do this then small,
surrounded, Israel surely cannot.
My suggestion is to switch strategies. Instead of
being pro-active in the military sense perhaps it
would be better to put those energies and resources
into creating a really good, tight, internal network
designed to intercept and thwart terrorists and their
cells inside Israels borders. CATCHING terrorists
does not have the same political utility to the
Palestinians as ATTACKING terrorists (and anyone
else who gets in the way).
If the terrorists can't get the desired reaction,
they'll have to give up their ambitions to become
the next Arafat. The political situation will
stabilize, a single ruler will emerge that controls
and speaks for ALL Palestinians and that's something
you can actually NEGOTIATE with and get results.
It's the only way I can see to "change the equation"
in a useful manner. Well, that or literal genocide ...
but then Jews, of all people, ought never think
such thoughts.
Binyamin Dissen
:>Binyamin Dissen <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
:>>On Thu, 13 May 2004 19:34:35 GMT BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
:>>:> Fume away ... it won't make things any better for Israel.
:>>:> It's in a war it can't really win - so it needs to END
:>>:> the war before it truely, seriously, loses.
:>>Exactly.
:>>Israel should stop paying attention to KKKlansmen and other who wish for her
:>>destruction, and apply the needed pressure to stop the cowardly arab moslems.
:>>If that means that there are many cowardly arab moslem casualties, so be it.
:>>When the cowardly arab moslems build a munitions factory in the middle of
:>>their neighbors, Israel should give a ten minute warning and then blast the
:>>area. No need to risk Jewish lives to avoid cowardly arab moslem deaths.
:> Sounds good, but it doesn't seem to WORK.
It hasn't been tried yet.
:> They just
:> build another munitions factory, and another and
:> another ... and every strike against the factories
:> just plays into the hands of the radical factions.
Or, on the other hand, the moslem arabs, seeing that the human shields aren;t
effective, will refuse to allow the munitions factories to be built in their
neighborhoods.
And they will use force to stop it.
Yes, it may take several destroyed neighborhoods to make the point, but, that
is what "Never Again" means.
Deborah Sharavi
>>>>the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
>>>>Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
>>>>there. They'll all die with their hands around each
>>>>others throats.
>>condo...@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote in article
>><c08fe7b7.04051...@posting.google.com>:
>>>Why blame the Palestinians?
>>Oh, right. Pallies are just innocent little lambs who NEVER hurt
>>anybody, NEVER waved a swastika banner, NEVER praised Abu Ali.
condo...@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote in article
<c08fe7b7.04051...@posting.google.com>:
>Right, and Bill Kristol is a Republican because he praises GWB.
Mind translating that into intelligible English, if you can do that?
>>>Blame Israel for conducting the
>>>occupation and the US for paying for it. The violence only began
>>>after the occupation started.
>>There goes Steverino on his favorite hobby horse again. He never
>>troubled his brain, such as it is, to note that Arab violence
against
>>Jews in Palestine began long before the "occupation".
>you never dispute or counter the numbers. 4 Israeli civilians, 14
>total Israelis killed by Palestinian guerrilla attacks in the 30
>months prior to the SDW. You've lost more in Gaza in the last 2 weeks
>than you did in how many years before the occupation??
Bogus numbers. And how many years of Arabs murdering Jews "before the
occupation" are necessary to show show that Arabs have been murdering
Jews for years?
>>>Before the SDW, that is the start of
>>>the occupation, Egypt controlled Gaza and did not allow Fatah to
>>>operate there.
>>Steverino ignores facts, as usual. Egypt controlled Gaza for the
>>simple reason that in 1948 Egypt seized it from the projected Arab
>>state envisioned in UNGAR 181. And yes, Egypt did allow the Fatah to
>>operate there, after Terrorfat and his buddies, then in Algeria,
>>founded it in the early 60s. Fatah received backing from Syria, and
>>began its murderous raids against Israel in 1965, from its bases in
>>Jordan, Lebanon and Gaza.
>Where is the definitive historical study of this issue?
"Definitive historical study" that Fatah raided Israel – good one! Of
course, Steverino has been given all this info on the Fatah before;
apparently, though, it hasn't sunk in.
See, Said K. Aburish, Arafat: From Freedom Fighter to Dictator; H.M.
Sachar, History of Israel.
Al-Fatah
From: Patterns of Global Terrorism.
United States Department of State Publication 10321
Other Names
Al-'Asifa
Description
Headed by Yasser Arafat, Fatah joined the PLO in 1968 and won the
leadership role in 1969. Its commanders were expelled from Jordan
following violent confrontations with Jordanian forces during the
period 1970-71, beginning with Black September in 1970. The Israeli
invasion of Lebanon in 1982 led to the group's dispersal to several
Middle Eastern countries, including Tunisia, Yemen, Algeria, Iraq, and
others. Maintains several military and intelligence wings that have
carried out terrorist attacks, including Force 17 and the Western
Sector. Two of its leaders, Abu Jihad and Abu Iyad, were assassinated
in recent years.
Activities
In the 1960s and the 1970s, Fatah offered training to a wide range of
European, Middle Eastern, Asian, and African terrorist and insurgent
groups. Carried out numerous acts of international terrorism in
western Europe and the Middle East in the early-tomiddle 1970s. Arafat
signed the Declaration of Principles (DOP) with Israel in 1993 and
renounced terrorism and violence. There has been no authorized
terrorist operation since that time.
Strength
6,000 to 8,000
Location/Area of Operation
Headquartered in Tunisis, with bases in Lebanon and other Middle
Eastern countries.
External Aid
Has had close political and financial ties to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait,
and other moderate Gulf states. These relations were disrupted by the
Gulf crisis of 1990-91. Also had links to Jordan. Received weapons,
explosives, and training from the former USSR and the former Communist
regimes of East European states. China and North Korea have reportedly
provided some weapons.
Created: 03/26/95
"In the course of 1964, the Syrians kept the border in
turmoil by employing artillery and armor. The Cairo
summit decision to establish the PLO gave encouragement
to Palestinian terrorists, and the Fatah began to carry
out its operations as well. On January 19, 1965, the first
explosive charge was found near an aqueduct of the Water
Carrier system, and there were seven further terrorist
incursions in the course of 1965."
- Yitzhak Rabin, Memoirs, p 62
"Nowhere were Israeli citizens more vulnerable to attack;
along the main DMZ area Syrian gun positions in the Golan
Heights dominated the Chula stretch of the frontier. It
became virtually impossible for Israeli farmers to secure
advance approval from the MAC to work the land; the MAC's
Syrian representative withheld his consent. Disputes over
cultivation rights arose essentially in the southern and
central DMZs where the land was approximately half Arab
and half Israeli, divided into narrow parallel strips.
All efforts to reach a delimitation agreement foundered,
and incidents erupted with growing frequency...Firing
from the Golan ultimately became so persistent that the
Israelis used armored tractors as standard equipment.
During an especially heavy clash in the Almagor region
in August 1963, several Israeli drivers were killed. UNTSO
promptly confirmed Syria's guilt."
- H.M. Sachar, History of Israel, p 618
"The heightened tension that developed between Israel
and Syria in the period preceding the Six Day War sprang
from the extremist character of Syria's regime--a fanatical
hatred of Israel; attempts to divert from Israel the water
sources of the Jordan River; and the Syrian army's sponsorship
of terrorism [1964]. Syria followed a more hostile policy
toward us than the other Arab states. Apart from trying to
prevent Israel from using the waters of the Jordan or
working the lands in the demilitarized zones on the Israeli
side of the international frontier, she also repeatedly
shelled Israeli border settlements [1956 - 1967]. In
pursuing this aggressive policy, Syria enjoyed a
topographical advantage, since she was able to dominate
the Jordan and Huleh valleys from the Golan Heights. Syria
also received unlimited support from the Soviet Union. To
Russia, Syria's rulers, the leaders of the left-wing Ba'ath
Party, were "Moscow's Darlings", to be petted and pampered.
"Israel suffered considerably from Syria's hostile actions
but found it difficult to reply by comparable military means.
Her artillery could not reach Syrian army bases on the high
ground, and Israel had no wish to fire on civilian villages
in reply to the shelling of her own. Border incidents between
Syria and Israel increased in number and gravity. On March 5,
1967, an Israeli tractor plowing near Kibbutz Shamir, close
of the Syrian border, went up on a mine, and the farmer was
seriously wounded. A month later there was an exchange of
fire when Israelis were plowing their fields in the
demilitarized zone near the Sea of Galilee."
"While Jordan began thinking seriously of checking terrorist
operations, Syria became more militant. She turned to Russia
for more military equipment, mostly surface-to-air missiles,
and to Nasser with the demand that Egypt join in the active
defense of Syria ... by taking military action against Israel
near the Egyptian border... Syrian spokesmen compared their
fight against Israel to that of the Vietcong and declared
they would not stop until they had conquered Israel."
- Moshe Dayan, My Life, pp 289-290
>Where is the
>record of the internal GOI debate on whether to occupy the
territories
>and why?
Where is the record of the internal debates in the governments of
Egypt and Syria regarding the Fatah? .
The two latest poorly written books I am reading on the SDW
>period, one by Jon Kimche, the other by Avi Shlaim, portray an Israel
>with very weak political leadership at that time. There does not
>appear to have been a plan for how to handle the territories.
>from "The Iron Wall" by Avi Shlaim
Read it already. Twaddle.
>Israel had before the occupation what it needs now. Arab states to
>control the territories. When raids occur Israel responds
>proportionally against the Arab state. Over time the Palestinians
>identify and integrate more and more with the adjacent Arab state and
>the attacks on Israel lessen.
"It always seemed to me that the Arabs never quite understood
our feelings or their implications, never grasped why we were
so deeply concerned and reacted so sharply when our people
were murdered, houses attacked, or roads mined by infiltrating
terrorists. On the eve of the Sinai Campaign, the terrorist
murder of Jewish workers at the Dead Sea potash works and
raids on Jewish villages near Kalkilia brought Israel and
Jordan almost to the brink of war."
- Moshe Dayan, My Life, p 290
>>>Then when Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt it
>>>refused to return Gaza. Why?
>>Egypt didn't want it.
>says who? and why?
Egypt.
>An independent Gaza has to be more trouble to
>Egypt than if it is incorporated. Israel can hold Egypt responsible
>either way.
<yawn> An "independent Gaza" is shit. Egypt didn't and doesn't want
Gaza, OR Palestine Arabs from Gaza in Egypt.
>>>Fatso now says he wants to withdraw Israeli forces from the
>> territory.
>>>-Steve
>>Which should make delusional Jew haters like Steverino happy, but of
>>course, does not.
>Fatso's plan for Gaza looks like the Allon plan for the WB. Israel
>controls the perimeter, leaving the arabs inside to stew in a giant
>occupation camp. A short term solution with terrible long term
>implications. How many off camera screams do Jews need to hear
before
>they give up the occupation?
>-Steve
It's obvious Steverino hasn't a clue what the Allon Plan. That's no
surprise, considering Steverino has never evinced that he has a clue
about Israel or the Middle East.
Deborah
Deborah Sharavi
>>>>the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
>>>>Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
>>>>there. They'll all die with their hands around each
>>>>others throats.
>><c08fe7b7.04051...@posting.google.com>:
>>>Why blame the Palestinians?
>>Oh, right. Pallies are just innocent little lambs who NEVER hurt
>>anybody, NEVER waved a swastika banner, NEVER praised Abu Ali.
condo...@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote in article
<c08fe7b7.04051...@posting.google.com>:
>Right, and Bill Kristol is a Republican because he praises GWB.
Mind translating that into intelligible English, if you can do that?
>>>Blame Israel for conducting the
>>>occupation and the US for paying for it. The violence only began
>>>after the occupation started.
>>There goes Steverino on his favorite hobby horse again. He never
>>troubled his brain, such as it is, to note that Arab violence
against
>>Jews in Palestine began long before the "occupation".
>you never dispute or counter the numbers. 4 Israeli civilians, 14
>total Israelis killed by Palestinian guerrilla attacks in the 30
>months prior to the SDW. You've lost more in Gaza in the last 2 weeks
>than you did in how many years before the occupation??
Bogus numbers. And how many years of Arabs murdering Jews "before the
occupation" are necessary to show show that Arabs have been murdering
Jews for years?
>>>Before the SDW, that is the start of
>>>the occupation, Egypt controlled Gaza and did not allow Fatah to
>>>operate there.
>>Steverino ignores facts, as usual. Egypt controlled Gaza for the
Other Names
Al-'Asifa
Strength
6,000 to 8,000
Read it already. Twaddle.
>>>Then when Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt it
>>>refused to return Gaza. Why?
>>Egypt didn't want it.
>says who? and why?
Egypt.
>An independent Gaza has to be more trouble to
>Egypt than if it is incorporated. Israel can hold Egypt responsible
>either way.
<yawn> An "independent Gaza" is shit. Egypt didn't and doesn't want
Gaza, OR Palestine Arabs from Gaza in Egypt.
>>>Fatso now says he wants to withdraw Israeli forces from the
>> territory.
>>>-Steve
>>Which should make delusional Jew haters like Steverino happy, but of
NS
>
>
> NS wrote:
>
> > "Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40A215CE...@sympatico.ca...
>
> > > ...except for the the fact that the Palestinians never had any
borders,
> > > having rejected time and again offers that would have provided them.
> >
> > That's right, they didn't, and never will. These Arab
> > squatters should return to the Arab countries that
> > they left when they invaded Israel's land.
>
> EGYPT!! - For 30+ years Gaza has been the dumping
> grounds used to clear out the overpopulated Cairo slums
>
And before that it was Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan
that dumped their refuse onto Israel's land. That's how
the MYTH of the "native" palestinian Arab was engineered.
NS
"Dave Simpson" <david_l...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:23e7f86e.04051...@posting.google.com...
> The Man wrote:
It's not a "Man". It's a rat cowering in a dark hole, wacking off.
Steve Richter
> >>>>the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
> >>>>Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
> >>>>there. They'll all die with their hands around each
> >>>>others throats.
>
> >>condo...@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote in article
> >><c08fe7b7.04051...@posting.google.com>:
> >>>Why blame the Palestinians?
>
> >>Oh, right. Pallies are just innocent little lambs who NEVER hurt
> >>anybody, NEVER waved a swastika banner, NEVER praised Abu Ali.
>
> condo...@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote in article
> <c08fe7b7.04051...@posting.google.com>:
> >Right, and Bill Kristol is a Republican because he praises GWB.
>
> Mind translating that into intelligible English, if you can do that?
You imply the palestinians are Nazis for aligning themselves with
Hitler's Germany. That's as bogus as saying Kristol is Republican
because of who he is aligned with.
> >>>Blame Israel for conducting the
> >>>occupation and the US for paying for it. The violence only began
> >>>after the occupation started.
>
> >>There goes Steverino on his favorite hobby horse again. He never
> >>troubled his brain, such as it is, to note that Arab violence
> against
> >>Jews in Palestine began long before the "occupation".
>
> >you never dispute or counter the numbers. 4 Israeli civilians, 14
> >total Israelis killed by Palestinian guerrilla attacks in the 30
> >months prior to the SDW. You've lost more in Gaza in the last 2 weeks
> >than you did in how many years before the occupation??
>
> Bogus numbers. And how many years of Arabs murdering Jews "before the
> occupation" are necessary to show show that Arabs have been murdering
> Jews for years?
Numbers matter. If the 4/14 number from Finklestein's book is wrong I
would like to know about it. Even if it is phrased as a choice between
evils, 4 killed in 30 months is preferable to the numbers being killed
now.
> >>>Before the SDW, that is the start of
> >>>the occupation, Egypt controlled Gaza and did not allow Fatah to
> >>>operate there.
>
> >>Steverino ignores facts, as usual. Egypt controlled Gaza for the
> >>simple reason that in 1948 Egypt seized it from the projected Arab
> >>state envisioned in UNGAR 181. And yes, Egypt did allow the Fatah to
> >>operate there, after Terrorfat and his buddies, then in Algeria,
> >>founded it in the early 60s. Fatah received backing from Syria, and
> >>began its murderous raids against Israel in 1965, from its bases in
> >>Jordan, Lebanon and Gaza.
>
> >Where is the definitive historical study of this issue?
>
> "Definitive historical study" that Fatah raided Israel ? good one! Of
> course, Steverino has been given all this info on the Fatah before;
> apparently, though, it hasn't sunk in.
It's not what I am asking for. I want to know what planning and
thinking was going on pre SDW re: Israel seizing the territories.
Eshkol seems to have been an intelligent man and Golda, his successor
was a political ally of his, right? It's odd that such a momentous
decision such as the occupation made by a group of politicians firmly
in control of the government would have been made without much
forethought.
I am aware that Dayan was aligned with DBG and both of those two were
deeper strategic thinkers than Eshkol/Golda. But the latter had the
votes, right? So the people who made the decisions were not the ones
who knew best what to do?
> "While Jordan began thinking seriously of checking terrorist
> operations, Syria became more militant. She turned to Russia
> for more military equipment, mostly surface-to-air missiles,
> and to Nasser with the demand that Egypt join in the active
> defense of Syria ... by taking military action against Israel
> near the Egyptian border... Syrian spokesmen compared their
> fight against Israel to that of the Vietcong and declared
> they would not stop until they had conquered Israel."
> - Moshe Dayan, My Life, pp 289-290
yet, before the SDW, Israel did not take on Syria. It's almost like
they were concerned that knocking out Syria would make things too
quiet on the WB front, removing the justification for the attack on
Jordan.
>
> >Israel had before the occupation what it needs now. Arab states to
> >control the territories. When raids occur Israel responds
> >proportionally against the Arab state. Over time the Palestinians
> >identify and integrate more and more with the adjacent Arab state and
> >the attacks on Israel lessen.
>
> "It always seemed to me that the Arabs never quite understood
> our feelings or their implications, never grasped why we were
> so deeply concerned and reacted so sharply when our people
> were murdered, houses attacked, or roads mined by infiltrating
> terrorists. On the eve of the Sinai Campaign, the terrorist
> murder of Jewish workers at the Dead Sea potash works and
> raids on Jewish villages near Kalkilia brought Israel and
> Jordan almost to the brink of war."
> - Moshe Dayan, My Life, p 290
He is saying that KH did not grasp Israel's concerns? KH met with GOI
officials from time to time, I am sure he listened to what they had to
say.
> >>>Then when Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt it
> >>>refused to return Gaza. Why?
>
> >>Egypt didn't want it.
>
> >says who? and why?
>
> Egypt.
>
> >An independent Gaza has to be more trouble to
> >Egypt than if it is incorporated. Israel can hold Egypt responsible
> >either way.
>
> <yawn> An "independent Gaza" is shit. Egypt didn't and doesn't want
> Gaza, OR Palestine Arabs from Gaza in Egypt.
The occupation has made the situation much worse than it ever was.
The US is going to win in Iraq because the fundementals favor our
position. There is no way Israel can win in Gaza. The sooner it
leaves entirely, the sooner starts the process for Egypt to regain
control.
> >>>Fatso now says he wants to withdraw Israeli forces from the
> territory.
> >>>-Steve
>
> >>Which should make delusional Jew haters like Steverino happy, but of
> >>course, does not.
>
> >Fatso's plan for Gaza looks like the Allon plan for the WB. Israel
> >controls the perimeter, leaving the arabs inside to stew in a giant
> >occupation camp. A short term solution with terrible long term
> >implications. How many off camera screams do Jews need to hear
> before
> >they give up the occupation?
> >-Steve
>
> It's obvious Steverino hasn't a clue what the Allon Plan. That's no
> surprise, considering Steverino has never evinced that he has a clue
> about Israel or the Middle East.
I have a map of the Allon plan. Israel would control basically all the
open space of the territory. There is a palestinian controlled
corridor between palistinian populated areas and Jordan. All the
other territory along the Jordan river belongs to Israel.
-Steve
Weaver
> So your argument is that since the world census figures for the number
> of Jews in the world increased after WW2 from the census taken before
> thew war, that there was no Holocaust of the Jews? You present an
> interesting argument, but I doubt the Jews will buy into it.
Since that's a lie, they don't need to buy into anything:
---------------
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005687
JEWISH POPULATION OF EUROPE IN 1945
About six million Jews died in the Holocaust. Jewish communities
across Europe were shattered. Many of those who survived were
determined to leave Europe and start new lives in Israel or the United
States. The population shifts brought on by the Holocaust and by
Jewish emigration were astounding.
According to the American Jewish Yearbook, the Jewish population of
Europe was about 9.5 million in 1933. In 1950, the Jewish population
of Europe was about 3.5 million. In 1933, 60 percent of all Jews lived
in Europe. In 1950, most Jews (51 percent) lived in the Americas
(North and South combined), while only a third of the world's Jewish
population lived in Europe.
The Jewish communities of eastern Europe were devastated. In 1933,
Poland had the largest Jewish population in Europe, numbering over
three million. By 1950, the Jewish population of Poland was reduced to
about 45,000. The Soviet Union had the largest remaining Jewish
population, with some two million Jews. Romania's Jewish population
fell from about 980,000 in 1933 to about 280,000 in 1950. Most of
these demographic losses were due to the Holocaust, the rest to
postwar emigration from Europe.
The Jewish population of central Europe was also decimated. Germany
had a Jewish population of 565,000 in 1933 and just 37,000 in 1950.
Hungary had 445,000 in 1933 and 190,000 in 1950. Czechoslovakia's
Jewish population was reduced from about 357,000 in 1933 to 17,000 in
1950 and Austria's from about 250,000 to just 18,000.
In western Europe, the largest Jewish communities remained in Great
Britain, with approximately 450,000 Jews (300,000 in 1933) and France,
with 235,000 (225,000 in 1933). In southern Europe, the Jewish
population fell dramatically: in Greece from about 100,000 in 1933 to
just 7,000 in 1950; in Yugoslavia from about 70,000 to 3,500; in Italy
from about 48,000 to 35,000; and in Bulgaria from 50,000 in 1933 to
just 6,500 in 1950 (the reduction in the Bulgarian Jewish population
resulted from postwar emigration). The demographic focus of European
Jewry thus shifted from eastern to western Europe.
Before the Nazi takeover of power in 1933, Europe had a vibrant and
mature Jewish culture. By 1945, most European Jews--two out of every
three--had been killed. Most of the surviving remnant of European
Jewry decided to leave Europe. Hundreds of thousands established new
lives in Israel, the United States, Canada, Australia, Great Britain,
South America, and South Africa.
Copyright © United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Washington, D.C.
---------------
Steve Richter
> condo...@yahoo.com (Steve Richter) wrote:
>
> >BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message news:<glt1a0hrvcu30j0df...@4ax.com>...
> >
> >> >
> >> >Perhaps, now with your gods Yassin and Rantisi dead, it is a little harder to
> >> >get an experienced shooter there?
> >>
> >> the other half of this problem - as blameful as the
> >> Israelis. It's a mutual, synergistic, hate-fest over
> >> there. They'll all die with their hands around each
> >> others throats.
> >>
> >
> >occupation and the US for paying for it. The violence only began
>
> "The violence" started well before the creation
> of Israel. The Palestinians weren't especially
> kind to the Jews, and got increasingly unkind
> as the proportion of Jews increased following
> WW-2. Once the Jews had enough numbers the
> roles of "massa" and "nigger" changed. Now the
> Israelis are the powerful elememt and push
> around the Palestinians.
How do you explain the 1.2 million palestinian arabs who live
peacefully in Israel? And Israel's closest neighbor, Jordan, has
always been well inclined towards it. If the Palestinians were
inherently hostile to Jews as you say then the Israeli Arabs would be
perpertrating a lot more violence on Jews than is the case.
> I blame BOTH sides. Each has contributed to the
> current situation. Each helps perpetuate the
> situation. No tolerance, no forgiveness, no
> quarter, no compromises, no peace. In my opinion
> everyone there is getting exactly what they
> deserve - reaping the bitterness they both have
> sown and nourished with blood and hatred.
> It's an object lesson for the rest of us on
> "What NOT to do".
The arrangement in Israel/Palestine is fundamentally unfair towards
the Palestinians. They are half the population of the region yet are
promised in even the best deal for them a fraction of their share of
the land.
But what is most crazy in this is that the US not only sides with
Israel but it also pays for the occupation. And this happens without
political debate in the US. What reason do Palestinians have to think
that non violence will gain them anything close to their fair share of
the land?
-Steve
chris.holt
> Israel should stop paying attention to KKKlansmen and other who wish for her
> destruction, and apply the needed pressure to stop the cowardly arab moslems.
>
> If that means that there are many cowardly arab moslem casualties, so be it.
>
> When the cowardly arab moslems build a munitions factory in the middle of
> their neighbors, Israel should give a ten minute warning and then blast the
> area. No need to risk Jewish lives to avoid cowardly arab moslem deaths.
Are you willing to kill six million people in the process?
--
Binyamin Dissen
:>Binyamin Dissen wrote:
:>> Israel should stop paying attention to KKKlansmen and other who wish for her
:>> destruction, and apply the needed pressure to stop the cowardly arab moslems.
:>> If that means that there are many cowardly arab moslem casualties, so be it.
:>> When the cowardly arab moslems build a munitions factory in the middle of
:>> their neighbors, Israel should give a ten minute warning and then blast the
:>> area. No need to risk Jewish lives to avoid cowardly arab moslem deaths.
:>Are you willing to kill six million people in the process?
I have no problem killing as many of you neo-nazis as necessary.
You will have the choice to either stop killing Jews or suffer the
consequences.
BlackWater
I suspect there are about six BILLION "neo-NAZIs"
using your scattergun definition. Israel can't
fight that, ought never try and doesn't NEED to.
All Israel needs to so is shift away from the
kinds of tactics which so successfully rally
Palestinians and the whole arab world against
Israel. When "kick ass" fails, and fails, and
fails ... time for something ELSE.
BlackWater
>On Thu, 13 May 2004 20:56:12 GMT BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
>
>:>Binyamin Dissen <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
>
>:>>On Thu, 13 May 2004 19:34:35 GMT BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
>
>:>>:> Fume away ... it won't make things any better for Israel.
>:>>:> It's in a war it can't really win - so it needs to END
>:>>:> the war before it truely, seriously, loses.
>
>:>>Exactly.
>
>:>>Israel should stop paying attention to KKKlansmen and other who wish for her
>:>>destruction, and apply the needed pressure to stop the cowardly arab moslems.
>
>:>>If that means that there are many cowardly arab moslem casualties, so be it.
>
>:>>When the cowardly arab moslems build a munitions factory in the middle of
>:>>their neighbors, Israel should give a ten minute warning and then blast the
>:>>area. No need to risk Jewish lives to avoid cowardly arab moslem deaths.
>
>:> Sounds good, but it doesn't seem to WORK.
>
>It hasn't been tried yet.
Close enough ... many, many times. Instead of making
things better it only makes your enemies more determined
and better supported.
>:> They just
>:> build another munitions factory, and another and
>:> another ... and every strike against the factories
>:> just plays into the hands of the radical factions.
>
>Or, on the other hand, the moslem arabs, seeing that the human shields aren;t
>effective, will refuse to allow the munitions factories to be built in their
>neighborhoods.
>
>And they will use force to stop it.
No, they won't. They'll do the opposite. A stiff
"resistance mentality" has set in. All the kinds
of "punishment" meted out to terrorists and anyone
or anything that just happened to be in the vicinity
has made Palestinians DETERMINED to resist.
>Yes, it may take several destroyed neighborhoods to make the point, but, that
>is what "Never Again" means.
Israel is CREATING an "again" situation.
What's the definition of insanity ... doing the exact
same thing over and over and over again and expecting
different results ? The hyper-aggressive aspects of
Israeli "defense" are failures. Still, Israel keeps
doing the same thing (with cosmetic variations) over
and over and over again - expecting different
results.
A paradigm change is imperative.
Binyamin Dissen
:>Binyamin Dissen <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
:>>On Thu, 13 May 2004 20:56:12 GMT BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
:>>:>Binyamin Dissen <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
:>>:>>On Thu, 13 May 2004 19:34:35 GMT BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
:>>:>>:> Fume away ... it won't make things any better for Israel.
:>>:>>:> It's in a war it can't really win - so it needs to END
:>>:>>:> the war before it truely, seriously, loses.
:>>:>>Exactly.
:>>:>>Israel should stop paying attention to KKKlansmen and other who wish for her
:>>:>>destruction, and apply the needed pressure to stop the cowardly arab moslems.
:>>:>>If that means that there are many cowardly arab moslem casualties, so be it.
:>>:>>When the cowardly arab moslems build a munitions factory in the middle of
:>>:>>their neighbors, Israel should give a ten minute warning and then blast the
:>>:>>area. No need to risk Jewish lives to avoid cowardly arab moslem deaths.
:>>:> Sounds good, but it doesn't seem to WORK.
:>>It hasn't been tried yet.
:> Close enough ... many, many times.
It has not been tried at all.
:> Instead of making
:> things better it only makes your enemies more determined
:> and better supported.
They have been murdering Jews for centuries.
How can one make them more determined?
By destroying the targets without risking innocent lives one makes them less
supported.
:>>:> They just
:>>:> build another munitions factory, and another and
:>>:> another ... and every strike against the factories
:>>:> just plays into the hands of the radical factions.
:>>Or, on the other hand, the moslem arabs, seeing that the human shields aren;t
:>>effective, will refuse to allow the munitions factories to be built in their
:>>neighborhoods.
:>>And they will use force to stop it.
:> No, they won't. They'll do the opposite. A stiff
:> "resistance mentality" has set in. All the kinds
:> of "punishment" meted out to terrorists and anyone
:> or anything that just happened to be in the vicinity
:> has made Palestinians DETERMINED to resist.
So you assert.
You would assert anything that will lead to more Jewish deaths.
:>>Yes, it may take several destroyed neighborhoods to make the point, but, that
:>>is what "Never Again" means.
:> Israel is CREATING an "again" situation.
Classic blame the victim mentality.
:> What's the definition of insanity ... doing the exact
:> same thing over and over and over again and expecting
:> different results ?
That is what you are suggesting.
That the JOOOOOOOOOOOZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ yet again give in and hope for the best.
Your ilk has shown that there isn't the way to save Jewish lives.
:> The hyper-aggressive aspects of
:> Israeli "defense" are failures. Still, Israel keeps
:> doing the same thing (with cosmetic variations) over
:> and over and over again - expecting different
:> results.
That is why I suggest stopping the method you prefer, of giving in to
terrorism with minor attempts at stopping it, with hitting those who would
murder Jews hard.
Yes, I know that seeing Jews win makes you uncomfortable, but, then again, why
should I care about making your ilk happy?
:> A paradigm change is imperative.
True.
Binyamin Dissen
:>Binyamin Dissen <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
:>>On Sat, 15 May 2004 16:52:28 +0100 "chris.holt" <chris...@ncl.ac.uk> wrote:
:>>:>Binyamin Dissen wrote:
:>>:>> Israel should stop paying attention to KKKlansmen and other who wish for her
:>>:>> destruction, and apply the needed pressure to stop the cowardly arab moslems.
:>>:>> If that means that there are many cowardly arab moslem casualties, so be it.
:>>:>> When the cowardly arab moslems build a munitions factory in the middle of
:>>:>> their neighbors, Israel should give a ten minute warning and then blast the
:>>:>> area. No need to risk Jewish lives to avoid cowardly arab moslem deaths.
:>>:>Are you willing to kill six million people in the process?
:>>I have no problem killing as many of you neo-nazis as necessary.
:>>You will have the choice to either stop killing Jews or suffer the
:>>consequences.
:> I suspect there are about six BILLION "neo-NAZIs"
:> using your scattergun definition.
You would love to believe that there are that many that share your hate of
Jews.
There aren't.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
:> Israel can't
:> fight that, ought never try and doesn't NEED to.
"Never again" bring anything to mind?
:> All Israel needs to so is shift away from the
:> kinds of tactics which so successfully rally
:> Palestinians and the whole arab world against
:> Israel. When "kick ass" fails, and fails, and
:> fails ... time for something ELSE.
"Kick ass" has not yet been tried.
chris.holt
> On Sat, 15 May 2004 21:39:16 GMT BlackWater <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
> :>Binyamin Dissen <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
> :>>On Sat, 15 May 2004 16:52:28 +0100 "chris.holt" <chris...@ncl.ac.uk> wrote:
> :>>:>Are you willing to kill six million people in the process?
> :>>I have no problem killing as many of you neo-nazis as necessary.
>
> :>>You will have the choice to either stop killing Jews or suffer the
> :>>consequences.
> :> I suspect there are about six BILLION "neo-NAZIs"
> :> using your scattergun definition.
> You would love to believe that there are that many that share your hate of
> Jews.
>
> There aren't.
You seem determined to do your best to create them, however.
--