If you thought Iran was bad ...
Pope Pompous XVIII
Follow the links on this page to see what they do to babies in England,
all funded by the taxpayer and performed or outsourced by the National
Health Service. But it's all perfectly legal because the rulers they
keep electing tell them so.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. They do this to 190,000 of their
babies every year. Christ was there ever a more evil regime in the
world? And they pride themselves on their enlightened and educated
views.
Laughing my fucking arse off!! I'd rather live in Tehran any day of the
week. With my most sincere apologies to all the decent and respectable
Englishmen shocked by such a statement. Not to mention the photographs.
Vengeance will be so sweet! Don't come crying to Me mentaldickhead when
the buildings are tumbling all around you. For years you've had a
prophet in your midst but you refused to listen to his voice, as he
prepared a path for the Lord. Now it's payback time. Suffer and die
shithead.
--
"Everybody thinks that the tomb signifies death. Not at all, the exact
opposite. The Shroud and the tomb signify an unbelievable beginning,
because in the depth of the collapsed event horizon, there is something
which science knows as 'singularity'. This is exactly what started the
universe in the 'Big Bang'. We have nothing less in the tomb of Christ
than the beginning of a new universe" - Dame Isabel Piczek, particle
physicist, 2007 documentary /The Fabric of Time/
Baldoni
> ... wait till you see how they treat their citizens in England.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y3jgtz9
>
> Follow the links on this page to see what they do to babies in England,
> all funded by the taxpayer and performed or outsourced by the National
> Health Service. But it's all perfectly legal because the rulers they
> keep electing tell them so.
>
> And that's just the tip of the iceberg. They do this to 190,000 of their
> babies every year. Christ was there ever a more evil regime in the
> world? And they pride themselves on their enlightened and educated
> views.
>
> Laughing my fucking arse off!! I'd rather live in Tehran any day of the
> week. With my most sincere apologies to all the decent and respectable
> Englishmen shocked by such a statement. Not to mention the photographs.
>
> Vengeance will be so sweet! Don't come crying to Me mentaldickhead when
> the buildings are tumbling all around you. For years you've had a
> prophet in your midst but you refused to listen to his voice, as he
> prepared a path for the Lord. Now it's payback time. Suffer and die
> shithead.
They have had Moses, the Prophets and Jesus Christ to show them the way
and still they don't get it Pope. What more can be done for them,
damned if I know.
--
Count Baldoni
In hoc signo vinces
Pope Pompous XVIII
I think if London went up in smoke they'd soon change their tune
Baldoni. Have you a place in the country you could bring your family
for a weekend?
Lawrence Jenkins
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
news:slrnhsu3vi.gpc....@slackware.popes.news...
> ... wait till you see how they treat their citizens in England.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y3jgtz9
>
> Follow the links on this page to see what they do to babies in England,
> all funded by the taxpayer and performed or outsourced by the National
> Health Service. But it's all perfectly legal because the rulers they
> keep electing tell them so.
>
> And that's just the tip of the iceberg. They do this to 190,000 of their
> babies every year. Christ was there ever a more evil regime in the
> world? And they pride themselves on their enlightened and educated
> views.
>
> Laughing my fucking arse off!! I'd rather live in Tehran any day of the
> week. With my most sincere apologies to all the decent and respectable
> Englishmen shocked by such a statement. Not to mention the photographs.
>
much , you are right however to bring this to our attention. Imho the
increasingly frivolous use of abortion is scandalous. It's taken me many
years to really grapple with this issue and I feel ashamed that at one time
in my lefty life I would have tried to defend the indefensible.
For me one of the major ironies of this situation is that the left are the
champions of abortion and seem to feel no remorse, shame and regret in the
killing of an innocent child who never asked to be conceived yet was
callously left to die struggling with its every fiber to try and breath as
it was left to die. Yet this same left with its callous coldness towards
this slaughter of the innocents also fight with very sinew to alive terrible
criminals who have taken and ruined millions of lives, how odd that these
monsters lives are sacred when weighed against the lives of unborn babies.
There is something fundamentally wrong that we allow this to happen as a
right because of a capricious whim.
chuck-spears
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
news:slrnhsu3vi.gpc....@slackware.popes.news...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y3jgtz9
>
> Follow the links on this page to see what they do to babies in England,
> all funded by the taxpayer and performed or outsourced by the National
> Health Service. But it's all perfectly legal because the rulers they
> keep electing tell them so.
>
> And that's just the tip of the iceberg. They do this to 190,000 of their
> babies every year. Christ was there ever a more evil regime in the
> world? And they pride themselves on their enlightened and educated
> views.
>
> Laughing my fucking arse off!! I'd rather live in Tehran any day of the
> week. With my most sincere apologies to all the decent and respectable
> Englishmen shocked by such a statement. Not to mention the photographs.
>
> Vengeance will be so sweet! Don't come crying to Me mentaldickhead when
> the buildings are tumbling all around you. For years you've had a
> prophet in your midst but you refused to listen to his voice, as he
> prepared a path for the Lord. Now it's payback time. Suffer and die
> shithead.
>
I would be surprised if the motive for any of the abortions you tell us
of was payback or malice. It's not possible for us to know the reasons
behind the choices these people made in having the abortions, I'm guessing
not one derived any pleasure from these abortions and most will end up
regretting having them, to some extent but the individuals concerned will
have that to deal with the choices they made.
It's the gratification you appear to derive from your predicted
payback that bothers me. If you derive pleasure from contemplating your
predicted payback, then you are indeed a scary man.
Lawrence Jenkins
"chuck-spears" <chuck-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Z4Fzn.19244$bH6....@newsfe13.ams2...
I don't believe in any god yet I find this almost flippant response to mass
murder very worrying.
In the USA alone since 1971 nearly 50 million abortions. Here are the
reasons straight from Wiki
Reasons for abortions
In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions.[26] Another
study, in 1998, revealed that in 1987-1988 women reported the following
reasons for choosing an abortion:[27]
a.. 25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
b.. 21.3% Cannot afford a baby
c.. 14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
d.. 12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
e.. 10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
f.. 7.9% Want no (more) children
g.. 3.3% Risk to fetal health
h.. 2.8% Risk to maternal health
i.. 2.1% Other
chuck-spears
"Lawrence Jenkins" <lawre...@sky.com> wrote in message
news:4bcf1f6e$0$7491$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
It's not a flippant responce, reasons a. to f. are unacceptable to me
and I suspect anyone that used those reasons would have problems dealing
with their choice later in life.
I also have problems with the people that set these laws but realise
that at the end of the day, if someone is determined to have an abortion the
probably will. It then boils down to whether society treats them and anyone
else involved as murders or not.
Personally I would like all those that request an abortion for reasons
a. to f. be required to convince authorities of why an abortion should be
granted, rather than make it an automatic right, in fact I hope this is the
case right now.
Pope Pompous XVIII
>
> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
> news:slrnhsu3vi.gpc....@slackware.popes.news...
>> ... wait till you see how they treat their citizens in England.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/y3jgtz9
>>
>> Follow the links on this page to see what they do to babies in England,
>> all funded by the taxpayer and performed or outsourced by the National
>> Health Service. But it's all perfectly legal because the rulers they
>> keep electing tell them so.
>>
>> And that's just the tip of the iceberg. They do this to 190,000 of their
>> babies every year. Christ was there ever a more evil regime in the
>> world? And they pride themselves on their enlightened and educated
>> views.
>>
>> Laughing my fucking arse off!! I'd rather live in Tehran any day of the
>> week. With my most sincere apologies to all the decent and respectable
>> Englishmen shocked by such a statement. Not to mention the photographs.
>>
> Pope I can't bring myself to look at the images as they would upset me too
> much , you are right however to bring this to our attention. Imho the
> increasingly frivolous use of abortion is scandalous. It's taken me many
> years to really grapple with this issue and I feel ashamed that at one time
> in my lefty life I would have tried to defend the indefensible.
You were honest enough to see the error of your ways Lawrence. Too many
people would rather lie than admit what they know to be true - that
abortion is murder, and government-sanctioned abortion on an industrial
scale, genocide. What scares me is that such a thing can be allowed to
happen in the freedom-loving democracies of the West without so much as
a whisper from the general population. Government plans to liberalise
the abortion laws in Spain drew a million people onto the streets of
Madrid last year; when did that ever happen in the UK?
Is that how far the UK has come since 1945 - that they are now prepared
to let this genocide pass without a fucking whisper?
People should be on the streets breaking shop windows over this lie they
have been told. It's having a catastrophic effect on every aspect of
their lives - economic and social included - and ultimately abortion
will reduce the country to rubble and dust. How in the name of God can
people think this is a fucking right they have - to murder in cold blood
and with the most savage methods a child in the womb? You now have
millions of drug- and alcohol-dependent women in the UK living with the
trauma of what they have done. You have completely random violent crime
committed against 18-month-old toddlers and 80-year-old pensioners. And
why not!? This is the message your rulers are putting out loud and clear
- if another human being gets in the way destroy it!
LMFAO! And still they don't see.
But they will. One way or another they will be brought to their knees.
If these people won't listen to right reason when it's put in front of
them they will surely listen when the walls are crashing down around them.
This is not about the price an individual pays for procuring an
abortion. She will pay the price an individual pays. This is about an
entire society allowing and encouraging procured abortion. This society
will pay a price commensurate with a corporate sin on this scale. If the
media, the health services, the legislature, the education sector, the
judiciary and the police are in on this together, then you have a
society responsible for it, not a collection of individuals. And it is
society that will suffer as a result.
Carry on proclaiming this message from the rooftops Lawrence,
irrespective of whether or not the people are listening. You will have
done your duty, and you will get your rewards for doing so.
God's right hand of justice will not be stayed for much longer on this.
People can laugh at me and mock me all they like. Very soon they are
going to see God taking direct and immediate action against those
nations who flagrantly reject his laws. It will be spectacular and
painful for those who have most vociferously rejected them.
Pope Pompous XVIII
If I have to sit here and take abuse from shitheads like you regarding
my church, my faith, and my intellect then you should expect me to give
a little back. Not all of us are going to sit here and turn the other
cheek. If we pay the price for that so be it. I'll gladly pay the price
once I can get the boot in hard first.
Lawrence Jenkins
Chuck one day we all will hopefully have the scales fall from our eyes and
see just how self motivated we've been to murder our babies for what are in
most cases it would seem, are a moments personal pleasure. Abortion is a
new phenomenon , in the past when infant mortality was so unbearably high
and life expectancy so short life was sacred now its a nuisance an
afterthought and an impediment to our lifestyles.
Red Rackham
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
Abortion = More tragic proof that there's no such thing as intelligent
design.
If an intelligent designer wanted to render the obscenity that are abortions
redundant, he should have made sure that humans were incapable of producing
unwanted babies in the first place.
Red Rackham
So a better solution would be for all unwanted babies to be born? Have you
any idea how many that would add to the population of the world? The strain
on our already limited resources?
How many children are already on the edges of society, practically feral,
unwanted, unloved, a danger to themselves and others.
Think it through.
Lawrence Jenkins
"Red Rackham" <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:15Gzn.98430$5x6....@newsfe04.ams2...
Come on Ian that is just so feeble, stupid and morally disgraceful.
I ask this question as someone with whom this terrible penny has dropped. If
we turn our heads and shove it to the back of our minds then maybe just
maybe it will go away. Our TV screens and media have no qualms whatsoever
in showing us tragic infants hanging on for dear life-and rightfully so, Yet
if we had those same images of a feotus struggling against all odds and
losing whilst trying to live then our minds and opinions would rapidly
change but this scandal is kept well hidden, FFS we care more about fucking
hunting foxes than the murder of those that never had any choice in being
conceived. It really is a horror story for the twentieth and twenty first
century humanity.
If we get through the next hundred years we will look back in horror at what
we've done and justified. We have the absurdity of freaks like Maddonna
promoting a promiscuous society, surpporting mass murder and then going on a
shopping trip to Africa to get a child accessory she feels will make her
look cool. This is our message and its so so wrong.
Lawrence Jenkins
encourage sex onto minors and treat the foetus so flippantly that has led to
this awful attitude that the left encourage and chide those that don't as
being right wing reactionaries-why? Because we are horrified by the
uneccessary suffing of innocents.
Our society is morally bankrupt. What you are saying if you think it through
is that abortion is the answer for those scum parents who would only
mistreat their kids anyway. Sreilisation is the answer for those have shown
no care to their off spring but what we get in lefty Britain is its a womens
right to have babies and its a womens right to kill them all paid for by
those that are responsible and love their kids,
Either way the children suffer either aborted and left to die or neglected
abused and left on the streets what has post war society become.
Pope Pompous XVIII
Think it through, he says, in yet another of his sneering replies, as
though only those on his side are capable of thinking things through.
Do you know how many fucking fields are lying idle around me here in
Ireland Timmy, with farmers paid by the EU *not* to farm them?
Do you know how many people the Irish agriculture sector could actually
support? Do you know how many people the vastly underused lands of
Russia could support? And Canada? Do you know how much water they would
be able to pipe from the Himalayas to the Middle East if they set their
minds to it the same way they set their minds to piping gas under the
Baltic?
As I said, it's idiots like you who justify murder, and idiots like you
who will pay.
Pope Pompous XVIII
Jesus Christ you are retarded.
God doesn't exist does he? So how the fuck can he be responsible?
People are the product of blind evolutionary forces working on raw
biological and chemical material. Therefore deliberate abortion is not a
sin.
But your fucking problem is that if you're going to toe this line you're
going to have to admit clerical sex abuse is not a sin either. You
can't have it both ways mate.
chuck-spears
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
How can we respect a person who tells us that he believes in a god,
that has given him rules, when that person then selectively ignores those
rules. You tell us that we are less worthy than you because we do not share
your views and we will suffer because of this, as you look on in great
pleasure. Please explain what you think our approach to you should be. Your
last sentiments contradict the moral code you tell us you believe in.
Luke 6:27-36
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate
you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone
strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your
cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks
you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to
others as you would have them do to you.
Red Rackham
So you're saying it's better to have another couple of million people
walking the streets?
Red Rackham
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
You'll have to elborate for me pope, I don't understand the connection.
Lawrence Jenkins
FFS Chuck this is about the morale justification of wholesale abortion not
Pope. You are trying like Ian to deflect it into a religious argument. So 50
million babies in the US alone aborted and in many case left to die in
some hospital side room is justifiable?
Just answer that question.
Red Rackham
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
You seem to have a bit of an inferiority complex.
>
> Do you know how many fucking fields are lying idle around me here in
> Ireland Timmy, with farmers paid by the EU *not* to farm them?
Are you saying we should fill all our fields with unwanted babies?
>
> Do you know how many people the Irish agriculture sector could actually
> support? Do you know how many people the vastly underused lands of
> Russia could support? And Canada? Do you know how much water they would
> be able to pipe from the Himalayas to the Middle East if they set their
> minds to it the same way they set their minds to piping gas under the
> Baltic?
Do you know the world is already overpopulated. We don't have the means to
look after all its people as it is.
>
> As I said, it's idiots like you who justify murder, and idiots like you
> who will pay.
>
Again pope, I don't understand why you love the unborn child so much, and
hate them once they're popped out.
Your belief system is rife with contradictions.
We've all read you nonsensical sig now. Please change it to something
shorter.
TIA
chuck-spears
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
Clerical sex abuse is against the law, you may think it is a sin because
you say you believe in a moral law handed down by a god. If you think that
there probably is no god controlling various religious franchises around the
world, then there can be no sin or moral law.
Lawrence Jenkins
post war liberal tidal wave to encourage kids and adults to have sex at the
drop of a hat. Where I differ with rhe Catholic Church is in that
contraception is better than murder and unwanted kids by dispicable a shite
drug addled mother and any drug addled cunt of a bloke who may have shagged
her.
However the real answer lies in society and people being resonsible for
their actions. FFs how many babies have been conceived purely to get up the
social housing list and believe I know.
Rocket Head
> prophet in your midst but you refused to listen to his voice, as he
> prepared a path for the Lord. Now it's payback time. Suffer and die
> shithead.
>
And the difference between a zealot catholic and a fundamentalist muslim is
now nothing. They must wring their hands with glee to see they have now
brainwashed catholics to their way of thinking too. Well done pope, thats
the way to get support for your "religion". I now class you as religiously
inept as fundamentalist islamics.
Sad sad boy.
Rocket Head
>
> They have had Moses, the Prophets and Jesus Christ to show them the way
> and still they don't get it Pope. What more can be done for them, damned
> if I know.
>
> --
And Moses did show his people the way, and they are there - the promised
land, Canaan, Eretz Yisrael. Moses wasn't a Christian y'know.
chuck-spears
This is what I responded to,
"If I have to sit here and take abuse from shitheads like you regarding my
church, my faith, and my intellect then you should expect me to give a
little back"
As I have already said, religious views on abortion are no more relevant
than any other views.
Lawrence Jenkins
"Rocket Head" <Eeji...@eejitheadltd.com> wrote in message
news:VY6dnRrAGaiDpVLW...@bt.com...
Still nowt to do with the justification of mass murder though, is it?
Lawrence Jenkins
Ermm Chuck was that meant to be in response to my post it seemed directed at
Pope.
Pope Pompous XVIII
>
> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
> news:slrnhsucq3.6v2....@slackware.popes.news...
>> On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So a better solution would be for all unwanted babies to be born? Have
>>> you
>>> any idea how many that would add to the population of the world? The
>>> strain
>>> on our already limited resources?
>>>
>>> How many children are already on the edges of society, practically feral,
>>> unwanted, unloved, a danger to themselves and others.
>>>
>>> Think it through.
>>
>> Think it through, he says, in yet another of his sneering replies, as
>> though only those on his side are capable of thinking things through.
>
>
> You seem to have a bit of an inferiority complex.
Believe me Timmy I really don't no matter how much you and WTH and
Mentalguy say it. But I can spot a superiority complex a mile off - when
somebody's first response to practically everything they don't agree
with is either "Think it through" or "Use your brain" then I can be
fairly certain that person is an arrogant, utterly dislikeable sneer,
convinced of his own intellectual superiority and convinced also of the
mental emasculation of those he disagrees with. And if they are
religious, all the better.
What you don't like is that somebody has blown the doors wide open on
the subtext of everything you say, and shown the world that after you've
exhausted all your sneers and insults you really have nothing much to
contribute.
>> Do you know how many fucking fields are lying idle around me here in
>> Ireland Timmy, with farmers paid by the EU *not* to farm them?
>
>
> Are you saying we should fill all our fields with unwanted babies?
There he goes again, sneering.
No - I'm saying quite openly the world's resources are vastly
underexploited, despite what the population control fascists in the UN
tell you.
It has been estimated that Ireland alone could feed 50 million by the
way - 10 times its population.
>> Do you know how many people the Irish agriculture sector could actually
>> support? Do you know how many people the vastly underused lands of
>> Russia could support? And Canada? Do you know how much water they would
>> be able to pipe from the Himalayas to the Middle East if they set their
>> minds to it the same way they set their minds to piping gas under the
>> Baltic?
>
>
> Do you know the world is already overpopulated. We don't have the means to
> look after all its people as it is.
No it is *not* overpopulated you prick.
It's fucking pricks like you who justify murder and enable governments
to go ahead and carry it out.
Overpopulation indeed. Are you going to point the finger at those
people who are guilty of overpopulating the planet?
Well?
What are the odds it won't be the obese Englishman or American but the
starving Bangladeshi you point the finger at? Prick.
Lawrence Jenkins
Listen Chuck and Ian stop ducking the central question that Pope has every
right to pose and I as an ahtheist happen to agree with.
let me pose three questions
Is mass abortion acceeptable
Should Fox hunting be banned
Do you support capital punsihment.
There three simple well known questions but so illustrative in showing the
mess we've got ourselves into.
Lawrence Jenkins
have a right to live even when they a cold blooded killers
Lawrence Jenkins
So lets get this straight Chuck.
Because shirtlifters infiltrated the Catholic church to get access to young
boys that then justifies murdering unborn boy and girls?
Cos that's your logic.
Pope Pompous XVIII
Wow - genius detective work there chuck. And now for your verdict on
clerical sex abusers?
If there is no god and no moral law there can be no sin, correct?
Oh that's different isn't it?
chuck-spears
Have you actually read any of my posts in this thread? Lets do this a
different way, what in my posts do you disagree with?
chuck-spears
That is correct, it is directly under his post. You need to read others
posts properly or you will get confused.
Lawrence Jenkins
Okay easy nowl I'll go and read them all.
Red Rackham
>
> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <
>>
>> God doesn't exist does he? So how the fuck can he be responsible?
Yes, that is the subtext of what I'm saying, what I believe to be true. That
if he did exist he surely would have done a better job of designing us.
What I don't understand with all you god-botherers is how you all say he's
true and he created everything and isn't he great, then you go moaning on
about all the bad stuff he's done like abortion, etc.
>>
>> People are the product of blind evolutionary forces working on raw
>> biological and chemical material. Therefore deliberate abortion is not a
>> sin.
It depends on your definition of sin. The OED has it as the breaking of a
moral or divine law. Now, as I've explained to you ad infinitum you do not
need a god to have a moral law. In fact morals are more absolute without a
creator and his promise of heaven or damnation depending on your behaviour.
>>
>> But your fucking problem is that if you're going to toe this line you're
>> going to have to admit clerical sex abuse is not a sin either. You
>> can't have it both ways mate.
You really don't make any sense sometimes pope. Child sex abuse is certainly
against morality, therefore a sin.
>>
>
>
> Clerical sex abuse is against the law, you may think it is a sin
> because you say you believe in a moral law handed down by a god. If you
> think that there probably is no god controlling various religious
> franchises around the world, then there can be no sin or moral law.
Simply not true. Moral law is all the more potent without the thought that
you are just behaving morally in order to enter heaven.
>
Pope Pompous XVIII
LMFAO! This gobshite here is now quoting the bible to me!
Tell you what chuck: I'll answer your question when you answer mine.
It's also from Luke's Gospel; perhaps you're already familiar with it?
"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and
wife and children and brothers and sister, yes, and even his own life,
he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26).
chuck-spears
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
I don't believe there is a moral law handed down by a god, so there can
be no sin as defined by the various religions, nor do I think that there
will be a punishment when we die.
JAB
So then when do you class it as murder and exactly who do you think
should be prosecuted as a murderer - the woman, the doctors?
Red Rackham
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
It's very hard to have an enlightening conversation with someone calling you
'prick' at the end of every sentence.
We have differing beliefs. No matter how you might feel all I want to do is
understand how people as seemingly intelligent as you can believe such
utterly unbelievable things. And why a belief system that has done so much
evil, so much harm to so many people is a desirable thing to perpetuate in
the first place.
You have to see that your belief in eternal life is a desirable thing for
everyone. It must be such an enormous comfort to humans who, like me,
contemplate death every day. So naturally we all want to believe in god and
heaven. We just can't.
Not only do those who believe do so without any justification whatsoever,
but the system that shapes their belief is so utterly corrupt, controlling,
murderous and downright evil that it's a source of fascination that in the
21st century there are still those who toe the line and spout passages from
a 2000 year old book to back up their madness.
Again, I have no idea what you're frightened of in discussing such things
openly. You know what you believe is 'true'. Why should someone coming along
and saying they don't think it is make you so angry?
Red Rackham
"Lawrence Jenkins"
> Well Ian why do you hate unborn children so much yet love them and feel
> they have a right to live even when they a cold blooded killers
I think you're misunderstanding my point.
chuck-spears
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
You don't own the bible or have exclusive access to it. What makes this
"me" you refer to so important. Do you have a copyright on the bible?
JAB
... and in pope's view if god says it's ok to shag young boys up the
arse then it's fine.
Mentalguy2k8
> Again, I have no idea what you're frightened of in discussing such things
> openly. You know what you believe is 'true'. Why should someone coming
> along and saying they don't think it is make you so angry?
It's the hallmark of most people who believe these fairy stories. While they
have the right to believe in talking donkeys and earthquakes caused by
someone having a fumble in a camel-shed, nobody else has the right *not* to
believe it.
Just imagine how many Fatwas this fucking idiot Pope would be issuing if by
some quirk of fate he was born to, and brought up by, zealots of the Muslim
faith. Members of the Catholic Church and Islam are only different in that
Muslims slaughter infidels personally, while Catholics pray that their God
will do it for them. Charming people, all.
Mentalguy2k8
"JAB" <noch...@nohope.com> wrote in message
news:S4Izn.73411$Pu5....@newsfe30.ams2...
I think he's saying that if we don't believe in God, then we don't have the
right to get worked up about the buggering of children. Rather strange, as
it's the weirdos who *do* believe in God and his moral code that are
buggering children.
Either way, it's a piss-poor way of abdicating responsibility on behalf of
the thousands of nonces in his church. You'll note that at no time has he
ever said that sexually or physically abusing children is wrong or
repulsive.
Mentalguy2k8
Nobody should be prosecuted, as it's perfectly legal.
Pope Pompous XVIII
>
> It's very hard to have an enlightening conversation with someone calling you
> 'prick' at the end of every sentence.
believe me, it's far harder having an "enlightened" conversation with
somebody who thinks we should control the population of the planet by
doing away with unwanted human beings. In my opinion a person who
believes that is a person straight out of the Dark Ages, not the
Enlightenment.
>
> We have differing beliefs. No matter how you might feel all I want to do is
> understand how people as seemingly intelligent as you can believe such
> utterly unbelievable things. And why a belief system that has done so much
> evil, so much harm to so many people is a desirable thing to perpetuate in
> the first place.
I'll happily reply to that last question when you give me a satisfactory
definition of evil and how you measure it without God. And I'm not
interested in listening to a long and boring and ill-considered spiel
about how atheists and agnostics can be moral beings. What I want to
know is why they *must* be moral beings.
> You have to see that your belief in eternal life is a desirable thing for
> everyone. It must be such an enormous comfort to humans who, like me,
> contemplate death every day. So naturally we all want to believe in god and
> heaven. We just can't.
I don't care whether you believe or not. I do care if you lie about
religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.
>
> Not only do those who believe do so without any justification whatsoever,
> but the system that shapes their belief is so utterly corrupt, controlling,
> murderous and downright evil that it's a source of fascination that in the
> 21st century there are still those who toe the line and spout passages from
> a 2000 year old book to back up their madness.
You say we have no justification for belief whatsoever? What that means
is that you have decided the Resurrection did not happen, and it is not
a fact of history. Can you show me the steps you have taken to arrive at
this conclusion, and point me to the documents supporting it?
Secondly, you say the religious system shaping our belief is corrupt,
controlling, murderous and downright evil? I take it you have
Catholicism in mind as usual. Can you point me to a single instance in
history when the Catholic Church (not her adherents or clergy, but the
official teaching office of the Church) advocated murder?
Mentalguy2k8
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
Nope.
Lawrence Jenkins
Jab
It's a life terminated .
You know what Jab my late father in law was a professor of pediatrics, he
was passionate about saving young life that had not made the full gestation
period. He was loved and admired by all those around him for the work that
his baby unit did. Most times the babies if they survived grew up with all
sorts of physical problems yet regardless life was precious. Yet those same
people didn't think anything about pulling out all the stops to save the
life of a 24 week old baby and showed the same zeal in killing babies up
until the 26 gestation week. Can you explain that? Can anyone?
Pope Pompous XVIII
but if you don't accept the Bible why do you keep referring to it in
your crusade against Christianity? If you don't believe it then stop
fucking quoting it to attack Christianity.
Pope Pompous XVIII
Just as stoning women for adultery is perfectly legal in Iran.
*Bullseye*
Pope Pompous XVIII
Amusing how the 4% clerical sex abuse rate in the catholic Church gets
you all so worked up yet the higher abuse rate in the Protestant
churches and Jewish synagogues not to mention domestic families means
nothing to you.
These are official and government facts by the way - sex abuse by
Catholic clergy is lower than sex abuse by Protestant clergy and Jewish
rabbis, as proven by the number of cases taken to US insurance companies
every year. Sex abuse by Catholic clergy is also 6000 times more likely
to be reported by the media.
Red Rackham
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
> On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's very hard to have an enlightening conversation with someone calling
>> you
>> 'prick' at the end of every sentence.
>
> believe me, it's far harder having an "enlightened" conversation with
> somebody who thinks we should control the population of the planet by
> doing away with unwanted human beings.
And yet, strangely enough, I've never said that.
In my opinion a person who
> believes that is a person straight out of the Dark Ages, not the
> Enlightenment.
And if I said that to you you would call me an arrogant condescending prick.
>>
>> We have differing beliefs. No matter how you might feel all I want to do
>> is
>> understand how people as seemingly intelligent as you can believe such
>> utterly unbelievable things. And why a belief system that has done so
>> much
>> evil, so much harm to so many people is a desirable thing to perpetuate
>> in
>> the first place.
>
> I'll happily reply to that last question
No you won't. You never reply to the questions I put that you find
difficult.
when you give me a satisfactory
> definition of evil and how you measure it without God.
It's probably not that different to most believers. I was going to say
'yours' but I don't think you're representative. I fucking hope not.
This is usually the point you vanish from our threads but I'll try again.
Any moral code that is observed solely to score points to gain access to
heaven and to avoid hell is utterly worthless. It's things like this that
demonstrate that religion is a man-made thing as it's been so badly
thought-through.
Which is the better deed pope?:
Someone who does good for the sake of it, for the pleasure of the deed and
because someone else will benefit from it
or
Someone who does good because god is watching and he'll move them up a rung
or two on the ladder to heaven and away from eternal damnation.
Clue: One is a selfless act. The other is totally self-serving.
And I'm not
> interested in listening to a long and boring and ill-considered spiel
> about how atheists and agnostics can be moral beings. What I want to
> know is why they *must* be moral beings.
There is no 'must' involved. That's what makes is so much more valuable. If
you 'must' do something you can claim no credit for actually doing it.
And, here's another you won't answer, is it a moral thing to burn women and
children at the stake?
Is it a moral thing to take part in the genocide of another race?
Is it a moral thing to rape innocent children under your care?
A simple yes or no to all the above if you would.
>
>> You have to see that your belief in eternal life is a desirable thing for
>> everyone. It must be such an enormous comfort to humans who, like me,
>> contemplate death every day. So naturally we all want to believe in god
>> and
>> heaven. We just can't.
>
> I don't care whether you believe or not. I do care if you lie about
> religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.
Example?
>>
>> Not only do those who believe do so without any justification whatsoever,
>> but the system that shapes their belief is so utterly corrupt,
>> controlling,
>> murderous and downright evil that it's a source of fascination that in
>> the
>> 21st century there are still those who toe the line and spout passages
>> from
>> a 2000 year old book to back up their madness.
>
> You say we have no justification for belief whatsoever? What that means
> is that you have decided the Resurrection did not happen
There is no empirical evidence for this whatsoever. The gospels all totally
contradict each other to the extent that at least 3 of the 4 must by
entirely wrong.
, and it is not
> a fact of history. Can you show me the steps you have taken to arrive at
> this conclusion, and point me to the documents supporting it?
Yes. Every day I see no proof of an event that is biologically and
physiologically impossible I further believe that it didn't happen.
Can you point me to documents that prove leprechauns, unicorns, fairies and
yetis don't exist?
>
> Secondly, you say the religious system shaping our belief is corrupt,
> controlling, murderous and downright evil? I take it you have
> Catholicism in mind as usual.
Not at all. I think all religions that preach murder and subjugation are
equally evil.
Can you point me to a single instance in
> history when the Catholic Church (not her adherents or clergy,
Ooh, I feel a get-out clause on the way.
but the
> official teaching office of the Church) advocated murder?
Inquisition.
JAB
... but you didn't answer the question so I'll repeat it again ...
Baldoni
>>>>>
>>>>> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>>>>>> ... wait till you see how they treat their citizens in England.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y3jgtz9
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow the links on this page to see what they do to babies in England,
>>>>>> all funded by the taxpayer and performed or outsourced by the National
>>>>>> Health Service. But it's all perfectly legal because the rulers they
>>>>>> keep electing tell them so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that's just the tip of the iceberg. They do this to 190,000 of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> babies every year. Christ was there ever a more evil regime in the
>>>>>> world? And they pride themselves on their enlightened and educated
>>>>>> views.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laughing my fucking arse off!! I'd rather live in Tehran any day of the
>>>>>> week. With my most sincere apologies to all the decent and respectable
>>>>>> Englishmen shocked by such a statement. Not to mention the photographs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vengeance will be so sweet! Don't come crying to Me mentaldickhead when
>>>>>> prophet in your midst but you refused to listen to his voice, as he
>>>>>> prepared a path for the Lord. Now it's payback time. Suffer and die
>>>>>> shithead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> us of was payback or malice. It's not possible for us to know the
>>>>> reasons behind the choices these people made in having the abortions,
>>>>> I'm guessing not one derived any pleasure from these abortions and most
>>>>> will end up regretting having them, to some extent but the individuals
>>>>> concerned will have that to deal with the choices they made.
>>>>> It's the gratification you appear to derive from your predicted
>>>>> payback that bothers me. If you derive pleasure from contemplating your
>>>>> predicted payback, then you are indeed a scary man.
>>>>
> any idea how many that would add to the population of the world? The strain
> on our already limited resources?
>
> How many children are already on the edges of society, practically feral,
> unwanted, unloved, a danger to themselves and others.
>
> Think it through.
That is not the point the issue here is the mass murder of human beings
which is taking place in so called civilised nations.
--
Count Baldoni
In hoc signo vinces
David Simpson
<chuck-...@hotmail.co.uk> typed:
Not scary, just stupid.
--
Regards
David Simpson
(Unattached MM, Victoria, Australia)
So this is it. We're going to die.
Baldoni
> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>> On 2010-04-21, chuck-spears <chuck-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>> my church, my faith, and my intellect then you should expect me to give
>> a little back. Not all of us are going to sit here and turn the other
>> cheek. If we pay the price for that so be it. I'll gladly pay the price
>> once I can get the boot in hard first.
>>
>> -- "Everybody thinks that the tomb signifies death. Not at all, the exact
>> opposite. The Shroud and the tomb signify an unbelievable beginning,
>> because in the depth of the collapsed event horizon, there is something
>> which science knows as 'singularity'. This is exactly what started the
>> universe in the 'Big Bang'. We have nothing less in the tomb of Christ
>> than the beginning of a new universe" - Dame Isabel Piczek, particle
>> physicist, 2007 documentary /The Fabric of Time/
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVQea5Uca24
>
>
> Abortion = More tragic proof that there's no such thing as intelligent
> design.
>
> If an intelligent designer wanted to render the obscenity that are abortions
> redundant, he should have made sure that humans were incapable of producing
> unwanted babies in the first place.
Now you want to put God Almighty to the test, is that it ?
Mentalguy2k8
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
I think child sex abuse is wrong no matter who commits it. The only
difference is, I don't hear Protestants or Jews promoting their religion in
here or hypocritically telling me in one breath that they are serving God in
a righteous way, and next minute telling me they hope I die in a horrible
way. If they did, then they can get fucked too.
Mentalguy2k8
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
Which is what happens when you let religious nutjobs run important things
like countries.
Lawrence Jenkins
Jab no one should be porsecuted it should just eventually stop. People, all
of us need to realise its wrong..
Now answer mine.
Mentalguy2k8
Maybe you're confusing life with quality of life. It's easy to be idealistic
when a) you're getting paid to be and b) you don't actually have to look
after a severely disabled child for umpteen years.
I'm not sure any doctor performs a termination "with zeal".
Baldoni
>>>>
>>>> "chuck-spears" <chuck-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:cTFzn.6366$8f2....@newsfe27.ams2...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "chuck-spears" <chuck-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Z4Fzn.19244$bH6....@newsfe13.ams2...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... wait till you see how they treat their citizens in England.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y3jgtz9
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Follow the links on this page to see what they do to babies in
>>>>>>>> England,
>>>>>>>> all funded by the taxpayer and performed or outsourced by the
>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>> Health Service. But it's all perfectly legal because the rulers they
>>>>>>>> keep electing tell them so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And that's just the tip of the iceberg. They do this to 190,000 of
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> babies every year. Christ was there ever a more evil regime in the
>>>>>>>> world? And they pride themselves on their enlightened and educated
>>>>>>>> views.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Laughing my fucking arse off!! I'd rather live in Tehran any day of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> week. With my most sincere apologies to all the decent and
>>>>>>>> respectable
>>>>>>>> Englishmen shocked by such a statement. Not to mention the
>>>>>>>> photographs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vengeance will be so sweet! Don't come crying to Me mentaldickhead
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> prophet in your midst but you refused to listen to his voice, as he
>>>>>>>> prepared a path for the Lord. Now it's payback time. Suffer and die
>>>>>>>> shithead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tell us of was payback or malice. It's not possible for us to know the
>>>>>>> reasons behind the choices these people made in having the abortions,
>>>>>>> I'm guessing not one derived any pleasure from these abortions and
>>>>>>> most will end up regretting having them, to some extent but the
>>>>>>> individuals concerned will have that to deal with the choices they
>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>> It's the gratification you appear to derive from your predicted
>>>>>>> payback that bothers me. If you derive pleasure from contemplating
>>>>>>> your predicted payback, then you are indeed a scary man.
>>>>>>
>> we encourage sex onto minors and treat the foetus so flippantly that has
>> led to this awful attitude that the left encourage and chide those that
>> don't as being right wing reactionaries-why? Because we are horrified by
>> the uneccessary suffing of innocents.
>>
>> Our society is morally bankrupt. What you are saying if you think it
>> through is that abortion is the answer for those scum parents who would
>> only mistreat their kids anyway. Sreilisation is the answer for those have
>> shown no care to their off spring but what we get in lefty Britain is its a
>> womens right to have babies and its a womens right to kill them all paid
>> for by those that are responsible and love their kids,
>>
>> Either way the children suffer either aborted and left to die or neglected
>> abused and left on the streets what has post war society become.
>
>
> So you're saying it's better to have another couple of million people walking
> the streets?
You buggers would kill off all the old age pensioners if you could have
your way. Life is sacred and no man has the right to take it away.
Mentalguy2k8
How many unwanted or severely disabled children have you adopted mate?
Baldoni
>>
>> They have had Moses, the Prophets and Jesus Christ to show them the way and
>> still they don't get it Pope. What more can be done for them, damned if I
>> know.
>>
>> --
>
>
> And Moses did show his people the way, and they are there - the promised
> land, Canaan, Eretz Yisrael. Moses wasn't a Christian y'know.
Do you by chance know which books of Holy Scripture are contained
within the Bible ?
Mentalguy2k8
"Baldoni" <Baldo...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:8394p8...@mid.individual.net...
Maybe you could remind Pope of that next time he's applauding IRA bombers
and gunmen.
Baldoni
> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>> On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Lawrence Jenkins" <lawre...@sky.com> wrote in message
>> though only those on his side are capable of thinking things through.
>
>
> You seem to have a bit of an inferiority complex.
>
>
>>
>> Do you know how many fucking fields are lying idle around me here in
>> Ireland Timmy, with farmers paid by the EU *not* to farm them?
>
>
> Are you saying we should fill all our fields with unwanted babies?
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Do you know how many people the Irish agriculture sector could actually
>> support? Do you know how many people the vastly underused lands of
>> Russia could support? And Canada? Do you know how much water they would
>> be able to pipe from the Himalayas to the Middle East if they set their
>> minds to it the same way they set their minds to piping gas under the
>> Baltic?
>
>
> Do you know the world is already overpopulated. We don't have the means to
> look after all its people as it is.
>
>
>>
>> As I said, it's idiots like you who justify murder, and idiots like you
>> who will pay.
>>
>
>
> Again pope, I don't understand why you love the unborn child so much, and
> hate them once they're popped out.
>
> Your belief system is rife with contradictions.
>
> We've all read you nonsensical sig now. Please change it to something
> shorter.
>
> TIA
Luke 16:19-31
[19] "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and
lived in luxury every day. [20] At his gate was laid a beggar named
Lazarus, covered with sores [21] and longing to eat what fell from the
rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to
Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. [23] In hell,
where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with
Lazarus by his side. [24] So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have
pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and
cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
[25] "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you
received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now
he is comforted here and you are in agony. [26] And besides all this,
between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want
to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to
us.
David Simpson
<popepomp...@popes.news> typed:
>On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>I'll happily reply to that last question when you give me a satisfactory
>definition of evil and how you measure it without God. And I'm not
>interested in listening to a long and boring and ill-considered spiel
>about how atheists and agnostics can be moral beings. What I want to
>know is why they *must* be moral beings.
>
They are moral beings because they believe that morality is in the
best interests of society not because they are being threatened and in
fear of their immortal souls. To me that makes them more moral than a
religious person who is only moral because he is scared for his place
in the afterlife.
>> You have to see that your belief in eternal life is a desirable thing for
>> everyone. It must be such an enormous comfort to humans who, like me,
>> contemplate death every day. So naturally we all want to believe in god and
>> heaven. We just can't.
>
>I don't care whether you believe or not. I do care if you lie about
>religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.
Religions developed as a means to:
a) explain natural phenomena when no mechanism for producing the
effects was understood.
b) control people by making them feel guilty (The Catholic Church is a
past master at this)
>>
>> Not only do those who believe do so without any justification whatsoever,
>> but the system that shapes their belief is so utterly corrupt, controlling,
>> murderous and downright evil that it's a source of fascination that in the
>> 21st century there are still those who toe the line and spout passages from
>> a 2000 year old book to back up their madness.
>
>You say we have no justification for belief whatsoever? What that means
>is that you have decided the Resurrection did not happen, and it is not
>a fact of history. Can you show me the steps you have taken to arrive at
>this conclusion, and point me to the documents supporting it?
>
Since it is impossible to prove a negative I would ask you to provide
documentary evidence that the events in the Gospels did, in fact, take
place. The Romans were noted as fanatical record keepers yet perusal
of their documents has not produced any evidence that the Crucifixion
ever took place as described in the Gospels. If the Crucifixion did
not happen then the resurrection is not possible.
Looks as if your church leaders have been lying to you for millennia.
>Secondly, you say the religious system shaping our belief is corrupt,
>controlling, murderous and downright evil? I take it you have
>Catholicism in mind as usual. Can you point me to a single instance in
>history when the Catholic Church (not her adherents or clergy, but the
>official teaching office of the Church) advocated murder?
Easy, the Inquisition. Now add to that the cover-up, abetting and
concealment of child molesters by the current Pope and his coterie of
sycophants. Just in case you think I'm misreading your question the
Pope IS the Catholic Church.
--
Regards
David Simpson
(Unattached MM, Victoria, Australia)
You will be audited by the Australia Taxation Office.
Baldoni
Mental I think Pope was referring to the Irish struggle for
independence in 1917.
Mentalguy2k8
CHAPTER VII. A Mad Tea-Party
‘Have some wine,’ the March Hare said in an encouraging tone.
Alice looked all round the table, but there was nothing on it but tea. ‘I
don’t see any wine,’ she remarked.
‘There isn’t any,’ said the March Hare.
‘Then it wasn’t very civil of you to offer it,’ said Alice angrily.
‘It wasn’t very civil of you to sit down without being invited,’ said the
March Hare.
‘I didn’t know it was YOUR table,’ said Alice; ‘it’s laid for a great many
more than three.’
‘Your hair wants cutting,’ said the Hatter. He had been looking at Alice for
some time with great curiosity, and this was his first speech.
‘You should learn not to make personal remarks,’ Alice said with some
severity; ‘it’s very rude.’
chuck-spears
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
Again you say things about me that are not true. I think most of
messages in the bible are common sense will always be useful, as a guide for
a fair and happy society . It is the supernatural aspect of religion that I
have a problem with along with the exclusive/devisive aspects.
You have, in this thread, shown that you are perfectly willing to ignore
what the god you believe in advises you to do, in even trivial situations.
That's why I made the reference to the bible. What use is all this religious
Paraphernalia, if you are prepared to ignore your god at the drop of a hat.
Mentalguy2k8
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
> God's right hand of justice will not be stayed for much longer on this.
> People can laugh at me and mock me all they like. Very soon they are
> going to see God taking direct and immediate action against those
> nations who flagrantly reject his laws. It will be spectacular and
> painful for those who have most vociferously rejected them.
Uh-oh... he's a mental. David Icke Junior.
Baldoni
> Since it is impossible to prove a negative I would ask you to provide
> documentary evidence that the events in the Gospels did, in fact, take
> place. The Romans were noted as fanatical record keepers yet perusal
> of their documents has not produced any evidence that the Crucifixion
> ever took place as described in the Gospels. If the Crucifixion did
> not happen then the resurrection is not possible.
>
Where are these documents to be found Simpson ?
Baldoni
Wine is a mocker, Mental.
Baldoni
Only fools ask questions that wise men can not answer !
Karl
So how many abortions are carried out anywhere near 26 or even 24 weeks?
24 weeks is the time limit in the UK in most cases, except certain
cases where the mothers health is threatened. The statistics for 2008
(the last year there are figures for) can be found here:
They show that 90% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks
gestation and 73% were at under 10 weeks. Other figures show that only
1% of abortions are over 20 weeks while 0.1% were at the legal limit of
24 weeks. So while the rhetoric about killing 26 week old babies may
impress some, the vast majority of abortions are carried out when the
cluster of cells inside the mother cannot even be called a baby. Its
just an appeal to emotion to call an aborted fetus a baby.
chuck-spears
The aspect of this that you're ignoring is that a baby of less than a
certain number of week supposedly cannot survive independently of it's
mother. You cannot demand that the mother puts her life at risk to save the
baby, this must be her choice. That's why I would only make abortion legal
under certain circumstances. If making abortion illegal, under any
circumstances, actually stopped abortions happening then it might be a
great idea. I don't think it would, so this muddled law is the best society
can do.
I can't see any other approach that would work better, unless you think
China's one child per couple policy is right.
Lawrence Jenkins
it and a baby at 24 weeks if you want to save it, Bollocks absolute twisted
bollocks.
What do you expect at 24 we fight and spend lots of money to save 'em and
and at 24 weeks spend lots of money to kill them .
http://www.circleofprayer.com/abortion-poster5.html
Have a look and remember that fox hunting raises more passions, poor fox
eh?
"Karl" <ka...@nope.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0vOdnfWbHvIb_lLW...@giganews.com...
Lawrence Jenkins
"Mentalguy2k8" <Mental...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:84Jzn.26184$TL1....@newsfe06.ams2...
Sorry Mental Guy I don't understand what you're saying. Is it that you
think I've never had time for handicapped children or the opposite.
Justin Thyme
> ... wait till you see how they treat their citizens in England.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y3jgtz9
Lawrence Jenkins
Chuck are you deliberartly not reading what I posted.
Of course in circumstances were awful choices have to be made abortion may
be necessary
Once again please look at the below and tell me how many abortions in the
USA were life and death decisions?
a.. 25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
b.. 21.3% Cannot afford a baby
c.. 14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
d.. 12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
e.. 10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
f.. 7.9% Want no (more) children
g.. 3.3% Risk to fetal health
h.. 2.8% Risk to maternal health
i.. 2.1% Other
25.5% Want to postpone childbearing (so why fucking get pregnant) then?
21.3% Cannot afford a baby (so why fucking get pregnant)
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy (so why
fucking get pregnant)
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy (so why fucking
get pregnant)
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job(so why fucking get
pregnant) Now I love that one-kill the kid its an inconvenience.
chuck-spears
"chuck-spears" <chuck-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nHJzn.762447$DL1.6...@newsfe25.ams2...
>
That last bit is a reference to applying some sort of sterilisation
policy on people you consider as mis using childbirth to get social security
benefits and absolutely nothing too do with this thread, ho hum.
chuck-spears
I have already agreed with you that these are not reasons for abortion.
If the people involved think that it is they should be required to explain,
why in their case they think it is.
Mentalguy2k8
Well neither really, but it's very easy to support keeping severely disabled
kids alive when you're not the one who has to look after them or spend 24/7
with them witnessing little or no quality of life. It all seems a bit NIMBY
to me. A bit like people who live in Kilmarnock who say Heathrow definitely
should have 25 runways. I know runways aren't life and death, but people
can't possibly judge what other people go through unless they've walked a
mile in their shoes.
Mentalguy2k8
You are aware of the failure rate of contraception?
Implants 2-4%, oral contraceptive 9%, diaphragm 13%, condom 15%, Spermicides
28%..... etc.
You're over-simplifying things. When you add up how many people are sensibly
using contraception and factor in the failure rate, you start to get an idea
of how many people tried not to get pregnant but did. I know several women
who conceived while using birth control, it's a little harsh to say "so why
fucking get pregnant".
I suspect most of us would be moaning like fuck if all those unwanted
pregnancies resulted in children being born to inadequate parents, and
raised on benefits because the husband didn't want it and left, or the
mother had to give up work or couldn't afford childcare. Or worse, like the
Irish fuckwits, couples having 14, 15, 16 kids that they can't afford or
look after properly that turn into feral little bastards and commit 90% of
the crime in an area.
Lawrence Jenkins
Well there is the contradiction we willingly murder babies at 24 weeks and
yet save them no mater what at 24 weeks under different circumstances
regardless of the quality of life the child will have.
Look I don't think there's any easy answer as there is no historical
president- we nerve had the power to keep kids alive way before gestation
period and we never had the power to carry out Kwik fit style abortions. But
I do know this flippant attitude to an innocent babies life to end it on
what is many times a capricious whim; is wholly wrong. Its only recently
I've felt this way since I've made my journey from the left who support this
a pro choice right.
When I recently learned that in many cases the fetus is still alive when
aborted and is left to die on a table in some side room I thought FFS we
don't even do that to animals. This bugged me and increasingly I've come to
the conclusion that abortions are nothing more on most cases nothing more
than a human sacrifice the twentieth century western God of Hedonism.
That's how I see it and that's unfortunately how it is.
Lawrence Jenkins
Fair enough its hard tring to read all the posts especially as I was talking
to a mate on the phone but couldn't resist reading.
Pope Pompous XVIII
>
> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>>> you
>>> 'prick' at the end of every sentence.
>>
>> believe me, it's far harder having an "enlightened" conversation with
>> somebody who thinks we should control the population of the planet by
>> doing away with unwanted human beings.
>
>
> And yet, strangely enough, I've never said that.
No of course not. What you're very good at is cloaking your language in
euphemisms so that you can wash your hands of the practical upshot of
what you say. In other words, you can say the world is overpopulated and
leave it to the junior doctor to actually do the nasty work of aborting
thousands of babies per year. That way you can enjoy a meal with the
wife and absolve yourself of all guilt.
It's how Planned Parenthood works. It's how the UN population control
lobby works. It's how the pro-abortion lobby works. Nice euphemisms to
cloak the reality of genocide in our midst.
Take a look at Dr Bernard Nathanson's take on it if you get the chance.
He was an abortionist who took the lives of 75,000 children. He even
aborted his own child. He eventually converted to Catholicism and has
since admitted that the abortion industry thrives on euphemisms and
lies, and indeed could not get away with what they do without distorting
language in this way.
You can start here. You'll find his confession most enlightening, I'm
sure.
http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html
>
> In my opinion a person who
>> believes that is a person straight out of the Dark Ages, not the
>> Enlightenment.
>
> And if I said that to you you would call me an arrogant condescending prick.
I say it straight out to you. There's no arrogance and no condescension.
There's a simple statement of fact. Anybody who justifies the
procurement or inducement of deliberate abortion is straight out of the
Dark Ages and is about as far from mental enlightenment as you can be.
He is guilty of the perpetuation of the Culture of Death in our midst
and will be held responsible at the final accounting for this
philosophical justification which gives succour to its practitioners.
>>> We have differing beliefs. No matter how you might feel all I want to do
>>> is
>>> understand how people as seemingly intelligent as you can believe such
>>> utterly unbelievable things. And why a belief system that has done so
>>> much
>>> evil, so much harm to so many people is a desirable thing to perpetuate
>>> in
>>> the first place.
>>
>> I'll happily reply to that last question
>
>
> No you won't. You never reply to the questions I put that you find
> difficult.
>
>
> when you give me a satisfactory
>> definition of evil and how you measure it without God.
>
>
> It's probably not that different to most believers. I was going to say
> 'yours' but I don't think you're representative. I fucking hope not.
>
> This is usually the point you vanish from our threads but I'll try again.
>
> Any moral code that is observed solely to score points to gain access to
> heaven and to avoid hell is utterly worthless. It's things like this that
> demonstrate that religion is a man-made thing as it's been so badly
> thought-through.
So not only do you assert your own intellectual superiority over
religious people but you also presume to know their motivation for
performing a certain action?
Let's say I give money on a regular basis to a pro-life charity. What
you are now telling me is that I do this in order to get into heaven?
And you wonder why I say you're arrogant and sneering?
Timmy - take a good look at yourself. Every single thing you say about
religion bears the hallmark of arrogance and condescension. You have
*absolutely* no idea *whatsoever* why I act certain ways and not other
ways, and don't dare to presume you do. Got that?
>
> Which is the better deed pope?:
>
> Someone who does good for the sake of it, for the pleasure of the deed and
> because someone else will benefit from it
>
> or
>
> Someone who does good because god is watching and he'll move them up a rung
> or two on the ladder to heaven and away from eternal damnation.
>
> Clue: One is a selfless act. The other is totally self-serving.
There he goes again. Sneering and mocking the actions of those people he
knows absolutely *nothing* about.
>
> And I'm not
>> interested in listening to a long and boring and ill-considered spiel
>> about how atheists and agnostics can be moral beings. What I want to
>> know is why they *must* be moral beings.
>
>
> There is no 'must' involved. That's what makes is so much more valuable. If
> you 'must' do something you can claim no credit for actually doing it.
Then there is no "must not" either.
Has this point about morality actually sunk in to your thick skull
yet???
Morality is a system of good *and evil* , not just good.
If there is no duty to be good then equally there is no duty not to be
evil.
Is this sinking in yet?
And if there is no obligation on us to do good then equally there is no
obligation on us *not* to do evil. That is the upshot of what you are
saying, like it or not. And therefore whetehr you like it or not,
whetehr you can even see it or not, you have just justified child abuse,
murder, rape, and pillage. Why? Because you say we are under no
obligation to avoid evil. It's something we do because it makes us feel
good.
LMAO.
Jesus Christ you are slow Timmy.
Get this - child abusers rape toddlers because it makes them feel good!
For fucks sake. Just about the most stupid and criminally retarded
defence of atheistic morality I have ever heard.
--
"Everybody thinks that the tomb signifies death. Not at all, the exact
opposite. The Shroud and the tomb signify an unbelievable beginning, because in
the depth of the collapsed event horizon, there is something which science
knows as 'singularity'. This is exactly what started the universe in the 'Big
Bang'. We have nothing less in the tomb of Christ than the beginning of a new
universe" - Dame Isabel Piczek, particle physicist, 2007 documentary /The
Fabric of Time/
Pope Pompous XVIII
>
> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>> On 2010-04-21, Mentalguy2k8 <Mental...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "JAB" <noch...@nohope.com> wrote in message
>>>> On 21/04/2010 7:59 PM, chuck-spears wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>>>>>> On 2010-04-21, chuck-spears <chuck-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> On 2010-04-21, chuck-spears <chuck-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>> ... wait till you see how they treat their citizens in England.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y3jgtz9
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> prophet in your midst but you refused to listen to his voice, as
>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared a path for the Lord. Now it's payback time. Suffer and
>>>>>>>>>>>> die
>>>>>>>>>>>> shithead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> of was payback or malice. It's not possible for us to know the
>>>>>>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>>>>>>> behind the choices these people made in having the abortions, I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> guessing
>>>>>>>>>>> not one derived any pleasure from these abortions and most will
>>>>>>>>>>> end up
>>>>>>>>>>> regretting having them, to some extent but the individuals
>>>>>>>>>>> concerned
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> have that to deal with the choices they made.
>>>>>>>>>>> It's the gratification you appear to derive from your predicted
>>>>>>>>>>> payback that bothers me. If you derive pleasure from
>>>>>>>>>>> contemplating your
>>>>>>>>>>> predicted payback, then you are indeed a scary man.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> regarding
>>>>>>>>>> my church, my faith, and my intellect then you should expect me to
>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>> a little back. Not all of us are going to sit here and turn the
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> cheek. If we pay the price for that so be it. I'll gladly pay the
>>>>>>>>>> price
>>>>>>>>>> once I can get the boot in hard first.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Everybody thinks that the tomb signifies death. Not at all, the
>>>>>>>>>> exact
>>>>>>>>>> opposite. The Shroud and the tomb signify an unbelievable
>>>>>>>>>> beginning,
>>>>>>>>>> because in the depth of the collapsed event horizon, there is
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> which science knows as 'singularity'. This is exactly what started
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> universe in the 'Big Bang'. We have nothing less in the tomb of
>>>>>>>>>> Christ
>>>>>>>>>> than the beginning of a new universe" - Dame Isabel Piczek,
>>>>>>>>>> particle
>>>>>>>>>> physicist, 2007 documentary /The Fabric of Time/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVQea5Uca24
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> intelligent
>>>>>>>>> design.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If an intelligent designer wanted to render the obscenity that are
>>>>>>>>> abortions
>>>>>>>>> redundant, he should have made sure that humans were incapable of
>>>>>>>>> producing
>>>>>>>>> unwanted babies in the first place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ you are retarded.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> God doesn't exist does he? So how the fuck can he be responsible?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People are the product of blind evolutionary forces working on raw
>>>>>>>> biological and chemical material. Therefore deliberate abortion is
>>>>>>>> not a
>>>>>>>> sin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But your fucking problem is that if you're going to toe this line
>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>> going to have to admit clerical sex abuse is not a sin either. You
>>>>>>>> can't have it both ways mate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Clerical sex abuse is against the law, you may think it is a sin
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> you say you believe in a moral law handed down by a god. If you think
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there probably is no god controlling various religious franchises
>>>>>>> around the
>>>>>>> world, then there can be no sin or moral law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow - genius detective work there chuck. And now for your verdict on
>>>>>> clerical sex abusers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there is no god and no moral law there can be no sin, correct?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh that's different isn't it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe there is a moral law handed down by a god, so there can
>>>>> be no sin as defined by the various religions, nor do I think that
>>>>> there
>>>>> will be a punishment when we die.
>>>>
>>>> ... and in pope's view if god says it's ok to shag young boys up the
>>>> arse
>>>> then it's fine.
>>>
>>> I think he's saying that if we don't believe in God, then we don't have
>>> the
>>> right to get worked up about the buggering of children. Rather strange,
>>> as
>>> it's the weirdos who *do* believe in God and his moral code that are
>>> buggering children.
>>>
>>> Either way, it's a piss-poor way of abdicating responsibility on behalf
>>> of
>>> the thousands of nonces in his church. You'll note that at no time has he
>>> ever said that sexually or physically abusing children is wrong or
>>> repulsive.
>>
>> Amusing how the 4% clerical sex abuse rate in the catholic Church gets
>> you all so worked up yet the higher abuse rate in the Protestant
>> churches and Jewish synagogues not to mention domestic families means
>> nothing to you.
>
> I think child sex abuse is wrong no matter who commits it. The only
> difference is, I don't hear Protestants or Jews promoting their religion in
> here or hypocritically telling me in one breath that they are serving God in
> a righteous way, and next minute telling me they hope I die in a horrible
> way. If they did, then they can get fucked too.
They don't have the courage of their convictions, that's why. When was
the last time the Church of England didn't move the goalposts when faced
with awkward moral questions?
At least the Catholic Church still stands up for the Gospel. This Church
was speaking out against abortion in the first century by the way, and
child abuse for that matter. Probably the oldest laws in the world
against child abuse are written into Catholic canon law.
Lawrence Jenkins
I think murdering babies and the crap violent murderous behaviour that we
get fom many kids are all caused by left wing liberal post war
engineeriring. They have caused both problems and support the murder of
babies and then support the right to life for people like Whiting , Huntley,
Sutcliffe and many many more including terrorist.
Now don't you think that's hypocrisy and double standards?
Pope Pompous XVIII
>
> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>>> news:kXHzn.72401$Pu5....@newsfe30.ams2...
>>>> On 21/04/2010 7:35 PM, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:
>>>>> "Rocket Head"<Eeji...@eejitheadltd.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:VY6dnRrAGaiDpVLW...@bt.com...
>>>>>> For years you've had a
>>>>>>> prophet in your midst but you refused to listen to his voice, as he
>>>>>>> prepared a path for the Lord. Now it's payback time. Suffer and die
>>>>>>> shithead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the difference between a zealot catholic and a fundamentalist
>>>>>> muslim
>>>>>> is now nothing. They must wring their hands with glee to see they
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> now brainwashed catholics to their way of thinking too. Well done
>>>>>> pope,
>>>>>> thats the way to get support for your "religion". I now class you as
>>>>>> religiously inept as fundamentalist islamics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sad sad boy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Still nowt to do with the justification of mass murder though, is it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So then when do you class it as murder and exactly who do you think
>>>> should
>>>> be prosecuted as a murderer - the woman, the doctors?
>>>
>>
>> Just as stoning women for adultery is perfectly legal in Iran.
>>
>
> Which is what happens when you let religious nutjobs run important things
> like countries.
You seem to have missed the point.
If you want to assert that the British legal system confers legitimacy
on abortion then you will also have to concede that the Iranian legal
system confers legitimacy on stoning women to death for adultery.
One or the other. Which is it?
Rocket Head
> After serious thinking Rocket Head wrote :
>>>
>>> They have had Moses, the Prophets and Jesus Christ to show them the way
>>> and still they don't get it Pope. What more can be done for them,
>>> damned if I know.
>>>
>>> --
>>
>>
>> And Moses did show his people the way, and they are there - the promised
>> land, Canaan, Eretz Yisrael. Moses wasn't a Christian y'know.
>
> Do you by chance know which books of Holy Scripture are contained within
> the Bible ?
>
> --
> Count Baldoni
>
> In hoc signo vinces
>
>
I do, yes, but Moses still wasn't a Christian. Don't mix your modern,
superstitious, nay, blasphemous faith with that of God's chosen people, the
one's he gave his land and his protection too, the Israelites.
Pope Pompous XVIII
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:28:48 +0100, Pope Pompous XVIII
><popepomp...@popes.news> typed:
>
>>On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>
>>I'll happily reply to that last question when you give me a satisfactory
>>definition of evil and how you measure it without God. And I'm not
>>interested in listening to a long and boring and ill-considered spiel
>>about how atheists and agnostics can be moral beings. What I want to
>>know is why they *must* be moral beings.
>>
> They are moral beings because they believe that morality is in the
> best interests of society not because they are being threatened and in
> fear of their immortal souls. To me that makes them more moral than a
> religious person who is only moral because he is scared for his place
> in the afterlife.
Yet another one who thinks "moral" is a synonym for "good".
A moral system is a system of good *and* evil. A person murdering
another person is acting morally - he is choosing evil. That is a moral
action.
Jesus Christ how deficient must the system of education be in the USA
and UK nowadays, that they don't even know this.
What you need to explain to me, a little more precisely and convincingly
than you have hitherto done, is why non-religious people can force me
not to rape a four-year-old toddler. They can tell me it's for the good
of society not to do it, but that's not an injunction. That's just
advice. An injunction is a prohibition on an action, and that is what
morality is about - prohibitions as well as recommendations.
So I'll ask you again - what is it in the non-religious worldview that
imposes a duty on me *not* to rape four-year-old toddlers and then throw
them into boiling oil?
The good of society?
LMFAO!!
OK I'll gather a few hundred paedophiles together and we'll set up our
own society on a remote island somewhere, and rape our own children to
our hearts' content, and your *entire* argument will be blown out of the
water. Idiots.
The good of society! LMFAO!
Pope Pompous XVIII
> a) explain natural phenomena when no mechanism for producing the
> effects was understood.
> b) control people by making them feel guilty (The Catholic Church is a
> past master at this)
The Catholic faith grew out of a few specific events, however much you'd
like to twist the truth otherwise.
The first event wasn't a volcano that shocked neanderthal savages into
believing. It was something stated very clearly by Jesus Christ - you
are Peter and on this rock I build my church.
That's the first specific event which gave rise to the Catholic Church,
which has been with us ever since in a continuous line.
The second event in history which gave impetus to the growth of the
catholic Church was an event witnessed and documented 2000 years ago,
namely the resurrection of Jesus Christ body and soul from the dead.
Both of these events are documented in the writings of several
eyewitnesses.
I really don't give a fuck whether you accept the validity of these
documents or not. If you don't it just shows you how stupid you are.
There isn't a single event in ancient history as well attested in
eyewitness documents as the resurrection. Anyone who denies it is an
idiot, and must by default deny absolutely everything else we know about
ancient history, since you will search long and hard to find anything
that happened hundreds of years ago with as much documentation to
confirm it as this.
Red Rackham
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
> On 2010-04-21, David Simpson <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:28:48 +0100, Pope Pompous XVIII
>><popepomp...@popes.news> typed:
>>
>>>On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>
>>>I'll happily reply to that last question when you give me a satisfactory
>>>definition of evil and how you measure it without God. And I'm not
>>>interested in listening to a long and boring and ill-considered spiel
>>>about how atheists and agnostics can be moral beings. What I want to
>>>know is why they *must* be moral beings.
>>>
>> They are moral beings because they believe that morality is in the
>> best interests of society not because they are being threatened and in
>> fear of their immortal souls. To me that makes them more moral than a
>> religious person who is only moral because he is scared for his place
>> in the afterlife.
>
> Yet another one who thinks "moral" is a synonym for "good".
>
> A moral system is a system of good *and* evil. A person murdering
> another person is acting morally - he is choosing evil. That is a moral
> action.
Just as good exists without god, evil exists without the devil.
We have a fully formed moral system that works despite the fact that god
does not and has not ever existed.
Atheists as a rule don't go round abusing children or committing murder. Why
not?
> Jesus Christ how deficient must the system of education be in the USA
> and UK nowadays, that they don't even know this.
>
> What you need to explain to me, a little more precisely and convincingly
> than you have hitherto done, is why non-religious people can force me
> not to rape a four-year-old toddler. They can tell me it's for the good
> of society not to do it, but that's not an injunction. That's just
> advice. An injunction is a prohibition on an action, and that is what
> morality is about - prohibitions as well as recommendations.
And these exist without god. Christ pope, you have a real blind spot here,
don't you mate.
>
> So I'll ask you again - what is it in the non-religious worldview that
> imposes a duty on me *not* to rape four-year-old toddlers and then throw
> them into boiling oil?
Well, as a non-religious person I refrain from raping four year olds and
tossing them into boiling oil largely because I'm not insane. I am also
blessed with the ability to empathise with others and see that such an
action is not desirable for them, would in fact cause them much harm and if
everyone did such a thing our society would soon collapse, which goes
against a biological imperative to further the human race.
>
> The good of society?
Indeed. But you should not be asking why the vast majority of people don't
do such evil things, but why the minutest minority do.
And it's because they're insane. There's been a flaw in their biological
make-up or they have suffered circumstances that have driven them to such
incomprehensible acts.
Could you explain why religous believers commit such terrible acts despite
'knowing' they'll be damned.
Is it because your religion has a get-out clause? Confession will absolve
them?
Great moral code that is.
>
> LMFAO!!
>
> OK I'll gather a few hundred paedophiles together and we'll set up our
> own society on a remote island somewhere, and rape our own children to
> our hearts' content, and your *entire* argument will be blown out of the
> water. Idiots.
That's more or less an exact desription of the catholic church.
Red Rackham
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
> On 2010-04-21, David Simpson <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Religions developed as a means to:
>> a) explain natural phenomena when no mechanism for producing the
>> effects was understood.
>> b) control people by making them feel guilty (The Catholic Church is a
>> past master at this)
>
> The Catholic faith grew out of a few specific events, however much you'd
> like to twist the truth otherwise.
>
> The first event wasn't a volcano that shocked neanderthal savages into
> believing. It was something stated very clearly by Jesus Christ - you
> are Peter and on this rock I build my church.
>
> That's the first specific event which gave rise to the Catholic Church,
> which has been with us ever since in a continuous line.
>
> The second event in history which gave impetus to the growth of the
> catholic Church was an event witnessed and documented 2000 years ago,
> namely the resurrection of Jesus Christ body and soul from the dead.
>
> Both of these events are documented in the writings of several
> eyewitnesses.
>
> I really don't give a fuck whether you accept the validity of these
> documents or not. If you don't it just shows you how stupid you are.
You are such a sanctimonious hypocrite. You tell people they're stupid for
not believing but have a hissy fit if you so much as suspect that reading
between the lines of what I'm writing I might be insinuating that you're
stupid.
> There isn't a single event in ancient history as well attested in
> eyewitness documents as the resurrection. Anyone who denies it is an
> idiot,
Here you go again.
and must by default deny absolutely everything else we know about
> ancient history, since you will search long and hard to find anything
> that happened hundreds of years ago with as much documentation to
> confirm it as this.
Utter bollocks of course.
chuck-spears
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
The problem you may run into with that is which kid gets it first, will
anyone try to stop you, the parents of that child perhaps. Maybe you could
agree to all beginning in unison with each others kids. If your society
survives through one generation hopefully all the kids will have the same
urges as their parents or there might be some trouble in paradise.
Are you pretending that even those that believe in gods moral code,
haven't just ignored it and comitted the same acts as those that don't
believe?
We have seen how people, down through history, have put their religious
beliefs to one side or bent them in some way to indulge themselves, in the
same way others would ignore advice given by others.
Red Rackham
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
> On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
>> news:slrnhsukfg.e4m....@slackware.popes.news...
>>> On 2010-04-21, Red Rackham <ONe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It's very hard to have an enlightening conversation with someone
>>>> calling
>>>> you
>>>> 'prick' at the end of every sentence.
>>>
>>> believe me, it's far harder having an "enlightened" conversation with
>>> somebody who thinks we should control the population of the planet by
>>> doing away with unwanted human beings.
>>
>>
>> And yet, strangely enough, I've never said that.
>
> No of course not. What you're very good at is cloaking your language in
> euphemisms so that you can wash your hands of the practical upshot of
> what you say. In other words, you can say the world is overpopulated and
> leave it to the junior doctor to actually do the nasty work of aborting
> thousands of babies per year. That way you can enjoy a meal with the
> wife and absolve yourself of all guilt.
And what you're very good at is making up your opponent's words so you can
argue with them rather than what they've actually said. It's a cheap trick
pope and I don't think anyone falls for it.
I notice that you still avoided the question.
>>
>>
>> when you give me a satisfactory
>>> definition of evil and how you measure it without God.
>>
>>
>> It's probably not that different to most believers. I was going to say
>> 'yours' but I don't think you're representative. I fucking hope not.
>>
>> This is usually the point you vanish from our threads but I'll try again.
>>
>> Any moral code that is observed solely to score points to gain access to
>> heaven and to avoid hell is utterly worthless. It's things like this that
>> demonstrate that religion is a man-made thing as it's been so badly
>> thought-through.
>
> So not only do you assert your own intellectual superiority over
> religious people but you also presume to know their motivation for
> performing a certain action?
>
Indeed. It's written in their instruction manual. 'Do this and you will go
to heaven. Do this and you will go to hell'.
I thought you knew that.
> Let's say I give money on a regular basis to a pro-life charity. What
> you are now telling me is that I do this in order to get into heaven?
I'd say it plays no small a part, yes.
>
> And you wonder why I say you're arrogant and sneering?
No, I don't. You do it to distract from the argument.
>
> Timmy - take a good look at yourself. Every single thing you say about
> religion bears the hallmark of arrogance and condescension. You have
> *absolutely* no idea *whatsoever* why I act certain ways and not other
> ways, and don't dare to presume you do. Got that?
But all religions were made to control people's behaviour. Whether you
acknowledge it or not your belief system forces you to act in certain ways
in order to avoid the pitfalls and gain the rewards.
>>
>> Which is the better deed pope?:
>>
>> Someone who does good for the sake of it, for the pleasure of the deed
>> and
>> because someone else will benefit from it
>>
>> or
>>
>> Someone who does good because god is watching and he'll move them up a
>> rung
>> or two on the ladder to heaven and away from eternal damnation.
>>
>> Clue: One is a selfless act. The other is totally self-serving.
>
> There he goes again. Sneering and mocking the actions of those people he
> knows absolutely *nothing* about.
Why not just answer the question. It's the one that gets you every time.
chuck-spears
"Pope Pompous XVIII" <popepomp...@popes.news> wrote in message
The most significant event in history which gave impetus to the growth
of the Catholic Church was it's adoption and patronage by the Roman Empire
under Constantine.
Legend-11
> You have completely random violent crime
> committed against 18-month-old toddlers and 80-year-old pensioners. And
> why not!? This is the message your rulers are putting out loud and clear
> - if another human being gets in the way destroy it!
>
If some of these all too common toe-rag, pramface mothers had taken the
wise choice to have an abortion instead of raising their scally kids on
benefits on estates that are very often universities for criminals, many
of the perpetrators of such crimes wouldn't exist.
Ever think of that, numbnuts?
--
Legend-11
Forget about Ronaldo.
Your Carlos Tevez too.
'Cos we've got a player who's United through and through.
He just might tw*t your groundsman, and bomb down your wing,
He's French, he's fast, he's f*cking CLASS, so hear United sing:
Tra la laa, it's Patrice Evra, tra la laa laa laa laa laa...