Clueless' Nick Clegg SLAPPED DOWN after whingeing UK is DOOMED outside EU

[Bod]

FORMER Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg was torn apart by Twitter users
today as he said a hard Brexit will cause doom and gloom for British
business.

Mr Clegg, who is now the party's EU spokesman, was immediately put down
by dozens of social media users - *both for and against Brexit* - who
accused him of scaremongering.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/717005/Nick-Clegg-slapped-down-post-Brexit-gloom-Theresa-May

[R. Mark Clayton]

Yep the twits are slagging off Clegg.

The markets well that's a different story: -

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/fx-focus-pound-nears-31-year-low-versus-dollar-recovers-against-euro-1584556
http://www.centralillinoisproud.com/news/investors-see-danger-in-uks-plan-for-brexit

and a left field one from a country where a hurricane is ripping it to shreds as I type: -

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Pound-plunges-as-UK-minister-warns-of-Brexit--rollercoaster-

What do we know about roller-coasters?

1. You always end up LOWER than where you started.
2. It can be VERY scary.
3. It can cost you an arm and a leg.

apposite analogy n'est pas?

[Bod]

Meanwhile back in the real world.

From The *Guardian*:

UK factories post fastest growth since June 2014

Hold onto your hats, folks. Britain’s factory sector has just posted its
strongest growth in over two years.

The latest manufacturing healthcheck, from Markit, shows that export
orders jumped at their fastest rate since January 2014. That suggests
the weak pound is helping UK firms sell their goods overseas.

Factories also took on more workers, with employment rising for the
second straight month.

Markit says that:

Job creation was linked to increased capacity requirements, new order
growth and the launch of new product lines.

This drove the UK manufacturing PMI up to 55.4 in September, up from
53.4 in August. That’s the highest since June 2014.

It’s the latest sign that the June EU referendum has not sent the UK
economy into a recession.

Firms reported that production grew at its fastest pace since May 2014 -
led by the consumer goods sector.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/oct/03/pound-falls-hard-brexit-deutsche-bank-manufacturing-data-business-live?page=with:block-57f21706e4b0ab00630875ae#block-57f21706e4b0ab00630875ae

[R. Mark Clayton]

The BoE has taken unprecedented steps to fend off recession - near zero interest rates, renewed quantitative easing (more money) - you know the sort of measures need to recover from the 2008 crash...

>
> Firms reported that production grew at its fastest pace since May 2014 -
> led by the consumer goods sector.
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/oct/03/pound-falls-hard-brexit-deutsche-bank-manufacturing-data-business-live?page=with:block-57f21706e4b0ab00630875ae#block-57f21706e4b0ab00630875ae

but oh what's that? pound at record lows...

[Handsome Jack]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> posted

>On Monday, 3 October 2016 15:37:57 UTC+1, Bod wrote:
>>
>> Meanwhile back in the real world.
>>
>> From The *Guardian*:
>>
>> UK factories post fastest growth since June 2014
>>

snip

>
>The BoE has taken unprecedented steps to fend off recession - near zero
>interest rates, renewed quantitative easing (more money) - you know the
>sort of measures need to recover from the 2008 crash...

I see. So when something bad happens, it was caused by the brexit vote.
When something good happens, it's down to BoE inflationary policy.

>> Firms reported that production grew at its fastest pace since May 2014 -
>> led by the consumer goods sector.
>>
>>
>>https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/oct/03/pound-falls-hard-
>>brexit-deutsche-bank-manufacturing-data-business-live?page=with:block-5
>>7f21706e4b0ab00630875ae#block-57f21706e4b0ab00630875ae
>
>but oh what's that? pound at record lows...

Ah. That can't possibly be due to Bank policy. It must be due to the
Brexit vote. Couldn't possibly be anything else. Oh no.

--
Jack

[R. Mark Clayton]

Well in the ten minutes after the Referendum vote became clear the pound fell 10% (exactly as I had predicted if it were a Leave vote). There has been some fluctuation since then, but it has not recovered, indeed ministerial pronouncements yesterday have made things worse: -
https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/oct/04/pound-dollar-low-construction-imf-brexit-business-live

so what else happened in the ten minutes around at ~05:00 on 2016-06-24 that could possibly have caused such a huge and almost unprecedented drop?

>
> --
> Jack

[tim...]

"R. Mark Clayton" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:61191e3d-97e4-48e6...@googlegroups.com...

The markets are down

The prediction for the next 20 year's GDP growth is 5% down.

So what?

The billionaire hedge fund owners may notice this, but my bet is that TMITS
wont.

The reality for them is that the rest of Europe is still in the doldrums
after the Crash and that he will be much better off once we stop allowing
these countries to export their unemployment problem to us.

tim

[Ophelia]

"Handsome Jack" wrote in message news:Ka05NMC+...@invalid.com...

Jack
===

How could you think such a thing? We know Mark Carney is sublimely honest
and thinks only of errr his pay packet!


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

[R. Mark Clayton]

Depends if they are one of the million or so expected to lose their job in a 6% down turn.

They might notice inflation as well - Brexit increases starting to work their way through now.

If they went abroad on holiday this summer they will have already done so.

[tim...]

"R. Mark Clayton" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:00d09dc2-1bc1-4490...@googlegroups.com...

it's not an immediate 6%

it's 6% over 15 years

less than half a percent per year

and all of the people unemployed going forward will be the foreigners not
coming here to take low paid jobs.

tim

[Handsome Jack]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> posted

>On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 10:49:10 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
>>
>> The billionaire hedge fund owners may notice this, but my bet is that TMITS
>> wont.
>
>Depends if they are one of the million or so expected to lose their job
>in a 6% down turn.

Who expects this, and what is their track record of getting economic
predictions correct?

--
Jack

[R. Mark Clayton]

Read back in this group for the very long list and in particular Google "Greenspan". I was a few months behind his Feb' 2007 prediction of the 2008 crash.

[R. Mark Clayton]

It is more like five years and the real pain starts when the 2 years' notice runs out.

[Handsome Jack]

He never predicted the 2008 crash, and nor did you.

--
Jack

[tim...]

"Handsome Jack" <Ja...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:BSM7PuIe...@invalid.com...

Oh I agree

but you can't argue that with the Remoaners, they just ignore it

[tim...]

"R. Mark Clayton" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:a8302b75-063e-46b7...@googlegroups.com...

the claim specifically stated "4300 worse off by 2030" (you can Google for
it!). Ok, it's 14 years!

>and the real pain starts when the 2 years' notice runs out.

That completely depends upon how good the deal is.

Many of us are more optimistic that it will be better than the Remoaners
think. (you still see them spouting on TV interviews "we have to agree to
FoM to trade with the single market" - BULLSHIT!)

A bad deal would hurt the EU at least as much as us and most of them are in
an economically much worse starting position to accept that hurt - They ARE
bluffing!

If the choice is: Ok deal for us, OK deal for them but no freedom of
movement or bad deal for them, bad deal for us, but still no freedom of
movement why would they turn down the first on a matter of principle.

I'd offer you a large bet on that position, but it would be too difficult to
form the criteria for "better deal than you think"

tim

[therustyone]

On Monday, 3 October 2016 15:07:34 UTC+1, Bod wrote:

Nick Clegg has lots of random opinions, which he expounds forever, but has never said anything of substance at all.

[R. Mark Clayton]

On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 22:11:56 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
> R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> posted
> >On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 16:32:09 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
> >> R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> posted
> >> >On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 10:49:10 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> The billionaire hedge fund owners may notice this, but my bet is
> >> >>that TMITS
> >> >> wont.
> >> >
> >> >Depends if they are one of the million or so expected to lose their job
> >> >in a 6% down turn.
> >>
> >>
> >> Who expects this, and what is their track record of getting economic
> >> predictions correct?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jack
> >
> >Read back in this group for the very long list and in particular Google
> >"Greenspan". I was a few months behind his Feb' 2007 prediction of the
> >2008 crash.
>
> He never predicted the 2008 crash, and nor did you.

It really gets up my nose when things have already been posted in this group (in Greenspan's case his February 2007 prediction is also in the public domain, so you can double check it yourself) and then some jerk comes along and just denies the past - ESPECIALLY when they have already been given chapter and verse only a month ago. Have you got early dementia as well as paranoid denial syndrome?

>
> --
> Jack
For reference: -

On Wednesday, 6 July 2016 22:04:30 UTC+1, Big Les Wade wrote:
> R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> posted

SNIP
> >>
> >> Cobblers. "The market" has no idea what will have happened in two years
> >> time. Look at its behaviour in 2007-08. Nobody who mattered had the
> >> faintest idea what was about to happen.
> >
> >Well apart from Alan Greenspan, Chairman of the US Federal Reserve
> >Bank, who predicted the crash in early 2007.
> >
>
> Balls. You tried that one before. When you were called out, it turned
> out that Greenspan said nothing of the kind.

Who trained you in denial - Dr. Joseph Goebbels?

26th February 2007 to be precise: -
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17343814/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/greenspan-warns-us-recession-risk/#.V34Y3rgrIUE
original article that day and MANY others.

OK he did not predict worldwide recession, but then he was not the head of the World Bank / IMF only the US government's one.

and

On Sunday, 4 September 2016 21:15:19 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
> R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> posted

> >On Sunday, 4 September 2016 14:01:57 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
SNIP
> >> But then, nor did anybody else. At least this shows us what Expert
> >> Economists' predictions are worth.
> >
> >Well apart from Alan Greenspan (then Chairman of the US Federal Reserve
> >Bank) in February 2007
>
> No he didn't.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17343814/#.V807xGb6sUE and many others
Check the date Ostrich - February 2007. OK so he only predicts recession in the USA - where he headed the state bank.

>
> >and me and my [FCA] brother-in-law in the summer.
>
> Ah yes. Published?

OK why not here and now - to give you context the discussion is about whether the wheels will fall off the economy : -


> -----Original Message-----
> From: R. Mark Clayton [redacted]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:22 AM
> To: redacted
> Subject: Re: Economy
>
> A lot of people are likely to listen to Alan Greenspan!
>
>
> regards
>
> Mark
>
> --
>
> R. Mark Clayton
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "redacted
> To: "'R. Mark Clayton'"
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:50 AM
> Subject: RE: Economy
>
>
> >I hope not!. But if you listen to Alan Greenspan - the end is nigh!
> > Regards
> > Perry
> >
> > redacted
> > Director
> >
> > SNIP
> > Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority
> >
> > Registered at the above address in England
> > Company No. snip
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: R. Mark Clayton [redacted]
> > > Sent: 17 September 2007 19:38
> > > To: redacted
> > > Subject: Economy
> > >
> > > Over the weekend, I noticed a lot of wheel nuts on the M1, M2, M3 etc.
> > >
> > > Certainly looked like a trigger event to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > regards

And of course it was and the wheels did fall off (12% contraction). (M1, M2, M3 here are money supply measures)

The most recent trigger event was the leave vote. The market suss'ed it within ten minutes and the pound is still down ten per cent - overall effect on GDP ~-6%.

Brexit ostriches just push their heads further into the sand...

>
> --
> Jack

[Handsome Jack]

What you post below simply supports my point. Greenspan never predicted

the 2008 crash, and nor did you.

[R. Mark Clayton]

On Friday, 14 October 2016 13:44:57 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
> R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> posted
SNIP

> >> >Read back in this group for the very long list and in particular Google
> >> >"Greenspan". I was a few months behind his Feb' 2007 prediction of the
> >> >2008 crash.
> >>
> >> He never predicted the 2008 crash, and nor did you.
> >
> >It really gets up my nose when things have already been posted in this
> >group (in Greenspan's case his February 2007 prediction is also in the
> >public domain, so you can double check it yourself) and then some jerk
> >comes along and just denies the past - ESPECIALLY when they have
> >already been given chapter and verse only a month ago. Have you got
> >early dementia as well as paranoid denial syndrome?
> >
>
> What you post below simply supports my point. Greenspan never predicted
> the 2008 crash, and nor did you.

"Former U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan warned Monday that the American economy might slip into recession by year's end"

I suppose you are using the word might as a get out.

My prediction from the time that "the wheels are going to fall off the [UK] economy" is below - note the reference [in September 2007] to Alan Greenspan predicting "the end is nigh".

[tim...]

"R. Mark Clayton" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:04b26336-3229-466b...@googlegroups.com...

> On Friday, 14 October 2016 13:44:57 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:

> "Former U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan warned Monday that
> the American economy might slip into recession by year's end"
>
> I suppose you are using the word might as a get out.
>

Well the meme is "had predicted nine of the past five recessions"

tim