Is it illegal to photograph a policeman?

[Citoyen Recorder]

Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

[Ian Jackson]

In article <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>,

Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the
>street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

No.

--
Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> These opinions are my own.

If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

[Rob Morley]

No.

[Sara Merriman]

In article <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>,
Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the
> street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

Was is the man or the horse? Could make a difference.

--
Armageddon is tiny

[Roland Perry]

In message <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>, at
06:06:08 on Wed, 14 Oct 2015, Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on
>the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

Policeman pooing, or the horse. Poohing is to do with Tigger and Piglet.
--
Roland Perry

[Martin Bonner]

On Wednesday, 14 October 2015 15:37:57 UTC+2, Citoyen Recorder wrote:
> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing
> on the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

In general, no. (He's in a public place, so has no reasonable
expectation of privacy.)

>From time to time the police have to be reminded of this. (Although
the more usual case is being photographed being heavy-handed with
some sort of protest).

I can imagine there are circumstances where it might be illegal (if it
was part of a campaign of harassment for example).

[lordgnome]

On 14/10/2015 14:06, Citoyen Recorder wrote:
> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?
>

Probably not - but why would you want to?

[Adam Funk]

On 2015-10-14, Citoyen Recorder wrote:

> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on
> the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

That reminds me of something I've been wondering about: it is legal
for mounted police to leave pooh on the street?

[Ian Jackson]

In message <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>,
Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> writes

>Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on
>the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

One has to ask if it was the horse that was doing the poohing, or the
policeman on the horse that was doing the poohing. Either way, it's
probably legal - although I suspect that the policeman would be more
likely to object than the horse would.
--
Ian

[Jerry Stuckle]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 06:06:08 -0700, Citoyen Recorder wrote:

> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the
> street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

It may depend on exactly who/what is doing the poohing.

[rasta....@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 2:37:57 PM UTC+1, Citoyen Recorder wrote:
> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the street > and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

Officially no but it's becoming the de facto situation these days that you'll be arrested and have your DNA taken before being released without charge.

YouTube has thousands of such videos.

[Yellow]

In article <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>,
cjdro...@gmail.com says...

>
> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

No.

[A.Lee]

Would you care to cite some of your references?

If your comment was a fact, then there would be 1000's of people
arrested each week.
--
Alan
To reply by mail, change '+' to 'plus'

[Iain]

In <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>,
Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> typed:

> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on
> the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

I believe the principle is that if you (the photographer) are located in a
public area, then there is no restriction about what photographs (or video)
you may take, including those of the police, or any other public servant.
If, however, you are located on, and taking photographs from, private
property, then you are governed by any rules in place surrounding that
private property.

Also, if the horse (or policeman) pooing has captured a crime, or is part of
a crime, then I believe that the photographs can be taken from you under the
pretext of being evidence.

IANAL
--
Iain

[Iain]

In <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>,
Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> typed:

> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on
> the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?

Further to my previous post, here is the advice from the Metropolitan Police
(Photograph advice):
http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice

--
Iain

[Adam Funk]

To complain about leaving crap in a public place? It's illegal for
you or me to do it; it's generally illegal to let dogs do it without
bagging it out; why should the police be allowed to leave horse crap
on the road (or even worse, on a shared use area or pedestrianized
shopping street, where pedestrians are more likely to step in it)?

[Mark Goodge]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:45:17 +0100, Adam Funk put finger to keyboard and
typed:

Yes, although Christopher Robin may get a bit upset.

(It is actually quite important to distinguish between these two homonyms.
Because I'm pretty sure that playing poo sticks on a bridge in public
would, in fact, be illegal).

Mark
--
Insert random witticism here
http://www.markgoodge.com

[Mark Goodge]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:14:28 +0100, Adam Funk put finger to keyboard and
typed:

Dog poo (not pooh, which is an entirely different thing!) is specifically
required by law to be cleaned up by the person responsible for the dog. No
such general[1] law applies to any other animal.

More generally, horses, being vegetarians, do not produce poo which
constitutes a potential health hazard to humans. Dogs do. There's no
equivalent of Toxocara Canis in horse poo. In fact, horse poo is widely
sought after by keen gardners and allotment holders as it is excellent
fertiliser.

[1] Some locations do have by-laws relating to horse poo, mainly those
which still have those laws as a hangover from the days when horses were
the primary mode of, er, horsepower. But that's related to the problems
caused by sheer quantity rather than any public health issues.

[Iain]

In <87si5dk...@news2.kororaa.com>,
August West <aug...@kororaa.com> typed:

> The entity calling itself Iain wrote:
>>
>> In <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> typed:
>>> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on
>>> the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?
>>
>> I believe the principle is that if you (the photographer) are
>> located in a public area, then there is no restriction about what
>> photographs (or video) you may take, including those of the police,
>> or any other public servant. If, however, you are located on, and
>> taking photographs from, private property, then you are governed by
>> any rules in place surrounding that private property.
>

> This is correct.

>
>> Also, if the horse (or policeman) pooing has captured a crime, or is
>> part of a crime, then I believe that the photographs can be taken
>> from
>> you under the pretext of being evidence.
>

> No, they can't be seized solely on the authority of a PC -- other than
> following a legal search; but a thid party's property cannot be
> seized.

So someone who has witnessed a crime (and may have been taking photos)
cannot under normal circumstances be searched - just because they may have
been taking the photos; there needs to be some other factor to allow the
search?
And even then, if the search is legal, the camera (photos/evidence) still
cannot be seized?
Apart from asking, what typically would be the method used to obtain the
photos/evidence?

And going back to the original OP's question ... providing the picture is a
typical snapshot of a policman and horse (who happens to be pooing), and not
of a crime, I believe that there would be no restriction about publishing
this on Twitter. The copyright will remain with the photographer - unless
Twitter has some clause in its T&Cs that allows Twitter to take over the
copyright.

--
Iain

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:03:38 +0000 (UTC), "A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com>
wrote:

I thought I'd read a handful of years ago that all offences had been
defined as arrestable, and that whether an offence had been committed
was up to the discretion of the police officer. That's why there's so
much variation up and down the country on what people get arrested for.
Grist for the Daily Mail grinder.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Paul Rudin]

ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) writes:

> In article <5efda022-1d1f-4e19...@googlegroups.com>,
> Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the
>>street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?
>
> No.

Or rather, not of itself.

Note that in some circumstances publishing a photo taken in a public
place can be tortious - see e.g. the Naomi Campbell case.

[Citoyen Recorder]

Physically to shame the individual concerned and his horse which arrogantly poohs all over our street when they exercise him, without them bothering to clear the mess up. Next time I catch one in flagrante delicto I will post the photo on twitter in the hope thousands of like minded persons retweet my post.

[rasta....@gmail.com]

Well, typing "police photography uk" into the search bar of YouTube returns "about 38,700 results".

Lots will be duplicates, of course but if it's legal to photograph the police then I'd expect close to zero results.

In fact, if you view some of the videos, you sometimes actually have to pinch yourself to remember you do live in the UK and not 1970 East Germany.

[Roger Hayter]

I think the police have alwayst behaved overbearingly and violently
toward the poor and minorities. The only change is that they now feel
confident enough to behave that way towards nearly everyone; and of
course the ubiquitous phone camera.

OTOH, the idea that a mounted police officer should personally clean up
after his horse seems a tiny bit silly to me.



--
Roger Hayter

[pcb1962]

On 14/10/15 22:12, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
> More generally, horses, being vegetarians,

Horses are herbivores, not vegetarians

[Michael Chare]

On 14/10/2015 14:06, Citoyen Recorder wrote:

> Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse poohing on the street and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?
>

Depends where you do it. In Morocco it is illegal to photograph the
police - as I found out!

--
Michael Chare

[Sara Merriman]

In article <mvpcul$pe$1...@pcb1962.eternal-september.org>, pcb1962

Being rather squeamish, I once looked askance at a friend who was
happily picking up her horse's excrement and throwing into a
wheelbarrow with her bare hands. "Oh don't be silly" she said, "he's a
vegetarian". "So am I" I said. "Would you do that with mine?".

[steve robinson]

Sara that has made my day :)

[Nick Odell]

In places where it isn't illegal I usually ask first anyway. I usually
get the picture and a great beaming smile to go with it. This also
applies to gunboats, tanks, aeroplanes etc.

I was visiting the place where Simon Winchester was interned during the
1982 shenanigans on, as it happens, the 20th anniversary. It didn't seem
very diplomatic to pull out a camera just then regardless of the legalities.

Nick

[Adam Funk]

On 2015-10-14, Mark Goodge wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:14:28 +0100, Adam Funk put finger to keyboard and
> typed:

>>To complain about leaving crap in a public place? It's illegal for
>>you or me to do it; it's generally illegal to let dogs do it without
>>bagging it out; why should the police be allowed to leave horse crap
>>on the road (or even worse, on a shared use area or pedestrianized
>>shopping street, where pedestrians are more likely to step in it)?
>
> Dog poo (not pooh, which is an entirely different thing!) is specifically
> required by law to be cleaned up by the person responsible for the dog. No
> such general[1] law applies to any other animal.
>
> More generally, horses, being vegetarians, do not produce poo which
> constitutes a potential health hazard to humans. Dogs do. There's no
> equivalent of Toxocara Canis in horse poo. In fact, horse poo is widely
> sought after by keen gardners and allotment holders as it is excellent
> fertiliser.

No excrement is sanitary: otherwise it wouldn't be important to wash
our hands; it's just that dog poo is much more unsanitary than most
kinds. I see no reason why leaving horse crap --- especially in
pedestrian areas, where I have seen police horses dump & go ---
shouldn't be covered by littering laws (for example).

[Adam Funk]

On 2015-10-14, Mark Goodge wrote:

Fair enough, I would normally have typed "poo" (well, more likely
"crap") but was following the OP's example.

[Adam Funk]

On 2015-10-15, Roger Hayter wrote:

> OTOH, the idea that a mounted police officer should personally clean up
> after his horse seems a tiny bit silly to me.

I don't see why not. Should they have a general permission to drop
litter on duty?

[Ian Jackson]

In article <ogsefcx...@news.ducksburg.com>,

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>I don't see why not. Should they have a general permission to drop
>litter on duty?

I don't think horses (police or otherwise) pooing on the road has been
made illegal since it was ubiquitous.

--
Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> These opinions are my own.

If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

[Roland Perry]

In message <ogsefcx...@news.ducksburg.com>, at 11:16:24 on Mon, 19
Oct 2015, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> remarked:

>> OTOH, the idea that a mounted police officer should personally clean up
>> after his horse seems a tiny bit silly to me.
>
>I don't see why not.

Because no horse riders have to.

>Should they have a general permission to drop litter on duty?

That, of course, is a completely different question.
--
Roland Perry

[Roger Hayter]

Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> In article <ogsefcx...@news.ducksburg.com>,
> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> >I don't see why not. Should they have a general permission to drop
> >litter on duty?
>
> I don't think horses (police or otherwise) pooing on the road has been
> made illegal since it was ubiquitous.

Perhaps someone who cares could check whether there is an exemption in
any of the litter laws that have passed since. I imagine there was an
effective (formal, informal or both) system for clearing it up in the
days when it was universal. Unless the horse rider was also equipped
with a cart it would seem to be totally impractical to clear it up in
the course of riding. Even in my childhood, hardly a week would go by
without a horse passing down our suburban London street.

--
Roger Hayter

[davi...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 19 October 2015 14:41:24 UTC+1, Adam Funk wrote:

> I don't see why not. Should they have a general permission to drop
> litter on duty?

It wasn't the police officer who dropped it.

[Norman Wells]

"Roger Hayter" <ro...@hayter.org> wrote in message
news:1mcjox5.14n08ln1mmnfjaN%ro...@hayter.org...

There was an effective informal system. It was called little old ladies with roses
in the garden.

[Pedt]

In article <1mcjox5.14n08ln1mmnfjaN%ro...@hayter.org>, ro...@hayter.org
says...

> > I don't think horses (police or otherwise) pooing on the road has been
> > made illegal since it was ubiquitous.
>
> Perhaps someone who cares could check whether there is an exemption in
> any of the litter laws that have passed since. I imagine there was an
> effective (formal, informal or both) system for clearing it up in the
> days when it was universal.
>

The massed buckets of The Rhubarb Growers Assiciation?

--
Pedt

[Mark Goodge]

On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:16:24 +0100, Adam Funk put finger to keyboard and
typed:

Horse poo is 100% biodegradable. So much so that people actually seek it
out to put on their gardens. Most litter, by contrast, is not.

[Janet]

In article <dcoefcx...@news.ducksburg.com>, a24...@ducksburg.com
says...

>
> On 2015-10-14, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:14:28 +0100, Adam Funk put finger to keyboard and
> > typed:
>
> >>To complain about leaving crap in a public place? It's illegal for
> >>you or me to do it; it's generally illegal to let dogs do it without
> >>bagging it out; why should the police be allowed to leave horse crap
> >>on the road (or even worse, on a shared use area or pedestrianized
> >>shopping street, where pedestrians are more likely to step in it)?
> >
> > Dog poo (not pooh, which is an entirely different thing!) is specifically
> > required by law to be cleaned up by the person responsible for the dog. No
> > such general[1] law applies to any other animal.
> >
> > More generally, horses, being vegetarians, do not produce poo which
> > constitutes a potential health hazard to humans.

apart from the risk of tetanus

Dogs do. There's no
> > equivalent of Toxocara Canis in horse poo. In fact, horse poo is widely
> > sought after by keen gardners and allotment holders as it is excellent
> > fertiliser.
>
> No excrement is sanitary: otherwise it wouldn't be important to wash
> our hands; it's just that dog poo is much more unsanitary than most
> kinds. I see no reason why leaving horse crap --- especially in
> pedestrian areas, where I have seen police horses dump & go ---
> shouldn't be covered by littering laws (for example).

Leave it there, I'll be along with a sack and shovel :-)

Janet

[Chris R]

>
>
> "Roger Hayter" wrote in message
> news:1mcjox5.14n08ln1mmnfjaN%ro...@hayter.org...
>

I was trying to imagine the progress of the Household Cavalry along the Mall
if they had to stop and pick it up.
--
Chris R

[Adam Funk]

On 2015-10-19, Mark Goodge wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:16:24 +0100, Adam Funk put finger to keyboard and
> typed:
>
>>On 2015-10-15, Roger Hayter wrote:
>>
>>> OTOH, the idea that a mounted police officer should personally clean up
>>> after his horse seems a tiny bit silly to me.
>>
>>I don't see why not. Should they have a general permission to drop
>>litter on duty?
>
> Horse poo is 100% biodegradable. So much so that people actually seek it
> out to put on their gardens. Most litter, by contrast, is not.

So are most carrier bags now --- therefore they should be exempt from
littering laws? Littering bans aren't just about biodegradability ---
they are about maintaining a pleasant environment for people to walk
in.

[Judith]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 01:39:39 +0100, Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

Of course - and then if they realise that there were in fact no grounds for
arrest - they are de-arrested.

[Roland Perry]

In message <2mac2bhmo4gq4ufk5...@4ax.com>, at 12:52:21 on
Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Judith <jmsmi...@hotmail.co.uk> remarked:

>>I thought I'd read a handful of years ago that all offences had been
>>defined as arrestable, and that whether an offence had been committed
>>was up to the discretion of the police officer. That's why there's so
>>much variation up and down the country on what people get arrested for.
>>Grist for the Daily Mail grinder.
>
>Of course - and then if they realise that there were in fact no grounds for
>arrest - they are de-arrested.

I have an idea that you can only be de-arrested before being processed
by the desk sergeant. But anyone with chapter and verse welcome to chip
in.
--
Roland Perry

[Mark Goodge]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:19:18 +0100, Adam Funk put finger to keyboard and

Carrier bags aren't sought-after organic fertiliser, though :-)

[Martin Bonner]

On Tuesday, 20 October 2015 12:32:57 UTC+2, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2015-10-19, Mark Goodge wrote:
> > Horse poo is 100% biodegradable. So much so that people actually seek it
> > out to put on their gardens. Most litter, by contrast, is not.
>
> So are most carrier bags now

Actually, I don't think that's true. I think most "biodegradable
plastics" just fall to pieces after a bit - leaving lots of small
pieces of fairly inert plastic. They don't decompose into CO2 + water
(+ a few trace chemicals).

Of course, we both need citations for our view point.

[Vir Campestris]

On 20/10/2015 21:06, Martin Bonner wrote:
> Actually, I don't think that's true. I think most "biodegradable
> plastics" just fall to pieces after a bit - leaving lots of small
> pieces of fairly inert plastic. They don't decompose into CO2 + water
> (+ a few trace chemicals).
>
> Of course, we both need citations for our view point.

<http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/26/opinion/choking-the-oceans-with-plastic.html?_r=0>

AKA http://tinyurl.com/qade2oh

Andy

[Judith]

You may be correct - but that does not negate what I said.

[Citoyen Recorder]

On Wednesday, 14 October 2015 23:43:34 UTC+2, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
> Dog poo (not pooh, which is an entirely different thing!) is specifically
> required by law to be cleaned up by the person responsible for the dog. No
> such general[1] law applies to any other animal.
>
> More generally, horses, being vegetarians, do not produce poo which

> constitutes a potential health hazard to humans. Dogs do. There's no

> equivalent of Toxocara Canis in horse poo. In fact, horse poo is widely
> sought after by keen gardners and allotment holders as it is excellent
> fertiliser.
>

> [1] Some locations do have by-laws relating to horse poo, mainly those
> which still have those laws as a hangover from the days when horses were
> the primary mode of, er, horsepower. But that's related to the problems
> caused by sheer quantity rather than any public health issues.
>

Can you quote an example of a Local Authority which has banned certain locations of the pooing by horses because of the sheer quantity that might be dropped by them? I would find this information extremely useful.

[Citoyen Recorder]

On Thursday, 15 October 2015 21:32:47 UTC+2, Roger Hayter wrote:
> <> wrote:
>

> > On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 10:02:30 PM UTC+1, A.Lee wrote:
> > > rasta....@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 2:37:57 PM UTC+1, Citoyen Recorder
> > > >wrote: > Is it illegal to photograph a policeman on a police horse
> > > >poohing on the street > and publishing same as a picture on Twitter?
> > > >
> > > > Officially no but it's becoming the de facto situation these days that
> > > >you'll be arrested and have your DNA taken before being released
> > > >without charge.
> > > >
> > > > YouTube has thousands of such videos.
> > >
> > > Would you care to cite some of your references?
> > >
> > > If your comment was a fact, then there would be 1000's of people

> > > arrested each week. --
> > > Alan
> > > To reply by mail, change '+' to 'plus'
> >
> > Well, typing "police photography uk" into the search bar of YouTube
> > returns "about 38,700 results".
> >
> > Lots will be duplicates, of course but if it's legal to photograph the
> > police then I'd expect close to zero results.
> >
> > In fact, if you view some of the videos, you sometimes actually have to
> > pinch yourself to remember you do live in the UK and not 1970 East
> > Germany.
>
> I think the police have alwayst behaved overbearingly and violently
> toward the poor and minorities. The only change is that they now feel
> confident enough to behave that way towards nearly everyone; and of
> course the ubiquitous phone camera.

>
> OTOH, the idea that a mounted police officer should personally clean up
> after his horse seems a tiny bit silly to me.
>
>
>

> --
> Roger Hayter

So you think that police horses have a divine right to poo wherever they like, in whatever quantity they like, daily at whatever time and place they feel they like without their keeper/rider bothering to clean up the mess they make afterwards? in total disregard of the risks and danger to pedestrians, cyclists, motor-cyclists, OAPs and so forth? And other health and safety risks?

[Roland Perry]

In message <661606b9-1d8e-4567...@googlegroups.com>, at
05:16:47 on Fri, 25 Mar 2016, Citoyen Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>So you think that police horses have a divine right to poo wherever they like, in whatever quantity they like, daily at whatever time and place
>they feel they like without their keeper/rider bothering to clean up the mess they make afterwards? in total disregard of the risks and danger
>to pedestrians, cyclists, motor-cyclists, OAPs and so forth? And other health and safety risks?

Rather than Police Horses, perhaps we could look at those used in the
Changing of the Guard and other ceremonies in Central London. It's clear
the riders won't be getting off those horses to clear up after
themselves.
--
Roland Perry

[Roger Hayter]

>he
>mess they make afterwards? in total disregard of the risks and danger
t>o
>pedestrians, cyclists, motor-cyclists, OAPs and so forth? And other
>health and safety risks?

It is not so much their right as their unavoidable behaviour. And,
while one could argue about who *should* be responsible for cleaning up,
it is unlikely to be a job the rider can conveniently do. Unless
perhaps he also has a cart; which is rare for police horses.

If you wish to pursue a possible remedy, it would be something along the
lines of any user of horses on a public road having a duty to subscribe
to a responsive cleaning-up (except perhaps in times of civill disorder
such as football matches) service.

--

Roger Hayter

[lordgnome]

On 25/03/2016 12:16, Citoyen Recorder wrote:

> So you think that police horses have a divine right to poo wherever they like, in whatever quantity they like, daily at whatever time and place they feel they like without their keeper/rider bothering to clean up the mess they make afterwards? in total disregard of the risks and danger to pedestrians, cyclists, motor-cyclists, OAPs and so forth? And other health and safety risks?
>
>

Quite frankly, I'll gladly take a few hundredweight of horse droppings
in exchange for the mess and litter left by human city dwellers.

Les.