Corbyn turn around on student debt

[Harry Bloomfield]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/

There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)

[Sam]

On 24/07/2017 18:26, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>
>
> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)

Not to hear a number of comments on 'phone-in shows. The student reps
think the sun shines out of his ...

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 24/07/17 18:26, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>
>
> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)

teach em never to trust a cunt with a beard.

--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

[Harry Bloomfield]

The Natural Philosopher submitted this idea :

> teach em never to trust a cunt with a beard.

lol

Jesus?

[tim...]

"Sam" <s...@widges.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3eSdnZoK7bdasuvE...@brightview.co.uk...

it's the political dead period

they will be no interviews for weeks

tim

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,

Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/

> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)

I take it then Tory voters are very happy virtually the entire Tory
manifesto was dropped after their 'victory'?

But of course why worry about what a government does when you can have a
go at the opposition? You've obviously learnt this works from Trump.

--
*Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check? *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Steve Walker]

On 24/07/2017 23:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>
>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>
> I take it then Tory voters are very happy virtually the entire Tory
> manifesto was dropped after their 'victory'?

At least the Torys were forced by the result to drop many manifesto
pledges. Labour seem to be promising things, then dropping them as soon
as the cost is questioned.

SteveW

[bm]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5660e1d...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>
>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>
> I take it then Tory voters are very happy virtually the entire Tory
> manifesto was dropped after their 'victory'?
>
> But of course why worry about what a government does when you can have a
> go at the opposition? You've obviously learnt this works from Trump.

Obviously May took the advice of some clueless fuckwit.
Heaven knows why, shirley some other person should have warned her that she
was on a suicide course.
Never mind, these clueless fuckwits will get adequately compensated. That's
what it's all about after all, money.
Principles? You must be fucking joking.
Even *I* (anyone) could have produced a better manifesto.
Come in Steptoe, lets take advantage of the situation. We'll talk bollocks,
any bollocks, it's better than the Tories, and it surely was.
We'll tell the kids that they need not pay any University fees, we'll
wriggle out of it later.
The complete process is corrupt. Pity the kids can't see it.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

I find it odd that people seem to just believe what they want to be true.


NT

[bm]

<tabb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:06469a48-d038-4d2d...@googlegroups.com...

It's called progress, the secondary school morons are taught all about this
shit, aren't they?
LMFAO.
What was WWI and WWII?
Was that when they didn't have VR?

[Richard]

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news:ol5ga0$gsv$1...@dont-email.me...

>
>On 24/07/17 18:26, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>
>teach em never to trust a cunt with a beard.

The ex didn't sport a Brazilian?

[Richard]

wrote in message
news:06469a48-d038-4d2d...@googlegroups.com...
>

Big business in just that scenario. Think churches, mosques, synagogues,
temples...

[The Natural Philosopher]

no evidence he was bearded


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

[Brian Gaff]

Well he did not promise. He as far as I recall, said that he could sort it
for new students. I mean that was what I thought I heard.
He could also change the level of income needed to make people have to pay
it back as well. but in this world, in the end, if you spend money, its got
to come from somewhere.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Harry Bloomfield" <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me...

[soup]

Especially him.
If there was a chappy called "Jesus" wandering about the middle east
2000 years ago he was talking bollocks.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,

Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> writes:
> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>
> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)

Last time a government anything like current Labour was in power was
late 1970's. Those old enough to have direct memory of how that worked
at the time, and what inflation well over 10% looks like, will be at
least aged 60 now. Eventually you get to the point where enough voters
haven't experienced it for the country to try it again - we're probably
very close now.

In the late 1970s, it was the unions who eventually threw Labour out,
when Labour ran out of money to pay public sector workers, with
inflation running at over 12%.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Graeme]

In message <ol6t9s$2mv$1...@dont-email.me>, Andrew Gabriel
<and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> writes

>Last time a government anything like current Labour was in power was
>late 1970's. Those old enough to have direct memory of how that worked
>at the time, and what inflation well over 10% looks like, will be at
>least aged 60 now.

I remember 1979 very well. I left an employer who provided staff
mortgages fixed at 3%, and found myself suddenly paying 15%. 1979 was
the year base rate hit 17%. Amazing to think there are youngsters now
who have only known a base rate of 0.5%, for the last 8 years.

--
Graeme

[Harry Bloomfield]

soup formulated on Tuesday :

Maybe Corbyn in a previous life?

[Tim Watts]

On 25/07/17 08:51, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> writes:
>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>
>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>
> Last time a government anything like current Labour was in power was
> late 1970's. Those old enough to have direct memory of how that worked
> at the time, and what inflation well over 10% looks like, will be at
> least aged 60 now.

late 40s - I can remember all of that...

[Dave Liquorice]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 17:25:07 -0700 (PDT), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>> We'll tell the kids that they need not pay any University fees,
we'll
>> wriggle out of it later.
>> The complete process is corrupt. Pity the kids can't see it.
>
> I find it odd that people seem to just believe what they want to be
> true.

They just read and believe the headline, they don't bother reading
the story. Which will carry the bias of which ever rag they are
reading.

I don't think Labour ever said they would write off existing Student
Loans only that they would "look for ways" of doing so. They might
fiddle with the current system, which wasn't broken until some smart
arse allowed the fees to rise and changed the Maintenance element
from a grant to loan, that instantly adds £25290 to the £27750 Fees
loan (17-18 academic year), making £53040+ for the average 3 year
course outside London.

That level of loan just isn't going to get paid back, even before the
Maintenance Grant was added only about 1/3 of the loans where paid
off, that's going to drop even lower making the debt far less
attractive for investors. Mind you with interest whilst studying and
util the April after you finish of RPI + 3%, then RPI (income below
21k) to RPI + 3% (Income > 41k) perhaps paying off the loan isn't
important.

Say a graduate has income of £25k, they'll pay back 9% of 25 - 21 =
£360. RPI at 2% gives interest of £1060 on £53k... At 41k income they
pay back £1800 but the interest is now 5% = £2650. A graduate has to
earn over £50k just to pay the interest. Simplistically add another
£20k to a graduates income to pay back the "capital" inside the 30
year write off period.

How many graduates will start on £70k, indeed how many will get to
£70k in 30 years...

The maths just add up, either I've got something wrong or economics
are even weirder than I think they are.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[JoeJoe]

I think you meant to say "as soon as a 10 year old goes over Dianne
Abbott's calculations".

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <ol6t9s$2mv$1...@dont-email.me>,

Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> writes:
> > http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
> >
> > There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)

> Last time a government anything like current Labour was in power was
> late 1970's. Those old enough to have direct memory of how that worked
> at the time, and what inflation well over 10% looks like, will be at
> least aged 60 now. Eventually you get to the point where enough voters
> haven't experienced it for the country to try it again - we're probably
> very close now.

And oddly, on a pretty modest salary, managed to buy the house I'm living
in now. With no help from parents or anyone.

> In the late 1970s, it was the unions who eventually threw Labour out,
> when Labour ran out of money to pay public sector workers, with
> inflation running at over 12%.

Far better today, then. Buying a house impossible for many, Rents sky
high. And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
Just what the Tories wanted.

--
*Errors have been made. Others will be blamed.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <ol5ulm$uss$1...@dont-email.me>,

Ah - right. A government, with all the resources of the civil service
behind them, can't actually produce a manifesto which is viable. But you
expect the opposition to stick to theirs to the letter (as you interpret
that letter)

--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

[soup]

You could be on to something .
Beard ----------------- check
Talks bollocks -------- check
Thinks he's god --------Check.
Yup definitely,of to do research on the Jesus-Corbyn connection.

[bm]

"soup" <cheeses...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oKEdB.406710$Vu3.1...@fx44.am4...

I like it :D

[John Rumm]

On 25/07/2017 09:31, Tim Watts wrote:
> On 25/07/17 08:51, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>> In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> writes:
>>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>>
>>>
>>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>>
>> Last time a government anything like current Labour was in power was
>> late 1970's. Those old enough to have direct memory of how that worked
>> at the time, and what inflation well over 10% looks like, will be at
>> least aged 60 now.
>
> late 40s - I can remember all of that...

yup, same here.

(observing even if not participating)



--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Harry Bloomfield]

soup has brought this to us :

> You could be on to something .
> Beard ----------------- check
> Talks bollocks -------- check
> Thinks he's god --------Check.
> Yup definitely,of to do research on the Jesus-Corbyn connection.

Where there any reports of Corbyn doing a trick with bread and fish?

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Initials J.C. ----- check

[JoeJoe]

On 25/07/2017 11:06, soup wrote:
> On 25/07/2017 09:30, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> soup formulated on Tuesday :
>>> On 24/07/2017 21:21, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher submitted this idea :
>>>>> teach em never to trust a cunt with a beard.
>>>> lol
>>>> Jesus?
>
>>> Especially him.
>>> If there was a chappy called "Jesus" wandering about the middle east
>>> 2000 years ago he was talking bollocks.
>> Maybe Corbyn in a previous life?
>
> You could be on to something .
> Beard ----------------- check
> Talks bollocks -------- check
> Thinks he's god --------Check.

You missed the "Everyone under 20 and/or with an IQ <70 thinks that he
is God - check"

[JoeJoe]

On 25/07/2017 10:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <ol6t9s$2mv$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> writes:
>>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>>
>>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>
>> Last time a government anything like current Labour was in power was
>> late 1970's. Those old enough to have direct memory of how that worked
>> at the time, and what inflation well over 10% looks like, will be at
>> least aged 60 now. Eventually you get to the point where enough voters
>> haven't experienced it for the country to try it again - we're probably
>> very close now.
>
> And oddly, on a pretty modest salary, managed to buy the house I'm living
> in now. With no help from parents or anyone.
>
>> In the late 1970s, it was the unions who eventually threw Labour out,
>> when Labour ran out of money to pay public sector workers, with
>> inflation running at over 12%.
>
> Far better today, then. Buying a house impossible for many, Rents sky
> high.

Rents/house prices are still very affordable if you move away from
London/south of England.

And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.

From my experience, if you are skilled, work hard and are good at what
you do then you are very rarely out of a job.

[The Natural Philosopher]

That would be a state educated 10 year old.

In private school, that would be a 5 year old.

--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

[The Natural Philosopher]

THEY EVEN HAVE THE SAME INITIALS.

I wish he would try walking on water from dover to calais though.

[JoeJoe]

On 25/07/2017 12:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/07/17 11:06, soup wrote:
>> On 25/07/2017 09:30, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>> soup formulated on Tuesday :
>>>> On 24/07/2017 21:21, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>>>> The Natural Philosopher submitted this idea :
>>>>>> teach em never to trust a cunt with a beard.
>>>>> lol
>>>>> Jesus?
>>
>>>> Especially him.
>>>> If there was a chappy called "Jesus" wandering about the middle east
>>>> 2000 years ago he was talking bollocks.
>>> Maybe Corbyn in a previous life?
>>
>> You could be on to something .
>> Beard ----------------- check
>> Talks bollocks -------- check
>> Thinks he's god --------Check.
>> Yup definitely,of to do research on the Jesus-Corbyn connection.
>>
> THEY EVEN HAVE THE SAME INITIALS.
>
> I wish he would try walking on water from dover to calais though.

Starting in the middle.

[tim...]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message

news:56611d2...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <ol5ulm$uss$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Steve Walker <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/07/2017 23:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> > In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> > Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>> >
>> >> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>> >
>> > I take it then Tory voters are very happy virtually the entire Tory
>> > manifesto was dropped after their 'victory'?
>
>> At least the Torys were forced by the result to drop many manifesto
>> pledges. Labour seem to be promising things, then dropping them as soon
>> as the cost is questioned.
>
> Ah - right. A government, with all the resources of the civil service
> behind them, can't actually produce a manifesto which is viable.

but it (the Tory manifesto) was viable

it was just not the political consensus.

The policies aren't being dropped because there is no money to pay for them.

They are being dropped because, without a natural majority, they lack the
backing of Parliament

tim

[tim...]

"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote in message
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@news.individual.net...

> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 17:25:07 -0700 (PDT), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> We'll tell the kids that they need not pay any University fees,
> we'll
>>> wriggle out of it later.
>>> The complete process is corrupt. Pity the kids can't see it.
>>
>> I find it odd that people seem to just believe what they want to be
>> true.
>
> They just read and believe the headline, they don't bother reading
> the story. Which will carry the bias of which ever rag they are
> reading.
>
> I don't think Labour ever said they would write off existing Student
> Loans only that they would "look for ways" of doing so. They might
> fiddle with the current system, which wasn't broken until some smart
> arse allowed the fees to rise and changed the Maintenance element
> from a grant to loan, that instantly adds £25290 to the £27750 Fees
> loan (17-18 academic year), making £53040+ for the average 3 year
> course outside London.
>
> That level of loan just isn't going to get paid back, even before the
> Maintenance Grant was added only about 1/3 of the loans where paid

you have to be careful with that statistic

only a third of loans are *fully* paid off

that doesn't meant that only a third of the total lent is paid off

And with the (foolish) rise in interest rates to 6%, it could be that for a
large percentage of loans all the principal will be paid, but not all of the
interest. A lower interest rate would solve that.

tim

[tim...]

"soup" <cheeses...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oKEdB.406710$Vu3.1...@fx44.am4...

and you never see them in the same room together

[whisky-dave]

On Monday, 24 July 2017 18:26:20 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>
> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)

They (the metro) got it wrong that is not what he said.

I saw what he did say via a friend from FB last night, he;d said he;d refund all 2017-2018 fee, and would lok at what could be done with present debts either by lowering teh intereest rate or increasing teh loan time i.e longer payback time.

[John Rumm]

On 25/07/2017 12:03, JoeJoe wrote:

> And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.

Also what many seem to fail to grasp is that if you legislate away the
ability to have "gig economy" type jobs, then the jobs don't suddenly
become more secure contracts of employment, they just vanish altogether
as the business models become non-viable.

[whisky-dave]

On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 08:36:18 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Well he did not promise. He as far as I recall, said that he could sort it
> for new students.

Yes you heard right for NEW students. That's 2017-2018
not those new since the other JC was nailed to a cross.

>I mean that was what I thought I heard.

You were correct because some use vision to deceive others.

> He could also change the level of income needed to make people have to pay
> it back as well. but in this world, in the end, if you spend money, its got
> to come from somewhere.

Lowering teh intrest rates on loans would only lower the profits of those lending 6.1% is quite high I'd have thought, it should be linked to bank lending rates, rather than how much profit a loan company wants to make.

[whisky-dave]

Last time I tried a trick like that I got arrested for indecency ;-)

of course there's those that have met Jesus some have seen paintings of him, others have seen photos of him and some have seen him in 3d HD surround sound.

But does anyone really know what Jesus really looked like ?
is it realy likely that someone with white skin and blue eyes be born in Bethlehem ?

[Mark]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 14:11:30 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>
>"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:56611d2...@davenoise.co.uk...
>> In article <ol5ulm$uss$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Steve Walker <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2017 23:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>> > In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> > Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>> >> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>> >
>>> >> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>>> >
>>> > I take it then Tory voters are very happy virtually the entire Tory
>>> > manifesto was dropped after their 'victory'?
>>
>>> At least the Torys were forced by the result to drop many manifesto
>>> pledges. Labour seem to be promising things, then dropping them as soon
>>> as the cost is questioned.
>>
>> Ah - right. A government, with all the resources of the civil service
>> behind them, can't actually produce a manifesto which is viable.
>
>but it (the Tory manifesto) was viable

You've got to be joking.

>it was just not the political consensus.
>
>The policies aren't being dropped because there is no money to pay for them.

Correct, but that the excuse given.

>They are being dropped because, without a natural majority, they lack the
>backing of Parliament

Rubbish.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <ol7fs4$24p$1...@dont-email.me>,

tim... <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> At least the Torys were forced by the result to drop many manifesto
> >> pledges. Labour seem to be promising things, then dropping them as
> >> soon as the cost is questioned.
> >
> > Ah - right. A government, with all the resources of the civil service
> > behind them, can't actually produce a manifesto which is viable.

> but it (the Tory manifesto) was viable

> it was just not the political consensus.

> The policies aren't being dropped because there is no money to pay for
> them.

> They are being dropped because, without a natural majority, they lack
> the backing of Parliament

Well, at least you've realised there is more to a manifesto than simply
issuing it.

Now tell me how that is any different to the Labour one?

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

[Mark]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 00:30:55 +0100, "bm" <a...@b.com> wrote:

>
>"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message

>news:5660e1d...@davenoise.co.uk...

>> In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>
>>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>>
>> I take it then Tory voters are very happy virtually the entire Tory
>> manifesto was dropped after their 'victory'?
>>

>> But of course why worry about what a government does when you can have a
>> go at the opposition? You've obviously learnt this works from Trump.
>
>Obviously May took the advice of some clueless fuckwit.

If she did take advice then, yes, it was from some clueless fuckwit.
However the tories are not known for taking advice from experts,
rather rely on dogma than facts.

>The complete process is corrupt. Pity the kids can't see it.

They do.

[Mark]

Absolutely. They should not be moving the goalposts.

[Mark]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 12:03:27 +0100, JoeJoe <n...@mail.com> wrote:

>On 25/07/2017 10:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <ol6t9s$2mv$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <ol5ac9$s60$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> writes:
>>>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>>>
>>>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>>
>>> Last time a government anything like current Labour was in power was
>>> late 1970's. Those old enough to have direct memory of how that worked
>>> at the time, and what inflation well over 10% looks like, will be at
>>> least aged 60 now. Eventually you get to the point where enough voters
>>> haven't experienced it for the country to try it again - we're probably
>>> very close now.
>>
>> And oddly, on a pretty modest salary, managed to buy the house I'm living
>> in now. With no help from parents or anyone.
>>
>>> In the late 1970s, it was the unions who eventually threw Labour out,
>>> when Labour ran out of money to pay public sector workers, with
>>> inflation running at over 12%.
>>
>> Far better today, then. Buying a house impossible for many, Rents sky
>> high.
>
>Rents/house prices are still very affordable if you move away from
>London/south of England.

WTF? You need to visit other parts of the country. There are many
areas where housing is not "very affordable">

>And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.

True.

> From my experience, if you are skilled, work hard and are good at what
>you do then you are very rarely out of a job.

But that doesn't automatically mean it pays well enough.

[Tim Watts]

On 25/07/17 15:51, whisky-dave wrote:

> But does anyone really know what Jesus really looked like ?
> is it realy likely that someone with white skin and blue eyes be born in Bethlehem ?
>
>

Not totally impossible:

http://www.uangry.com/mariam/images/p12.jpg

(Pashtun bloke, brownish but not massively dark skin and blue eyes)

[Harry Bloomfield]

JoeJoe formulated on Tuesday :

> From my experience, if you are skilled, work hard and are good at what you do
> then you are very rarely out of a job.

In my day, it was a matter of investing in yourself - struggling for a
few years on low pay whilst you trained, then later in life you saw the
rewards. The rewards of being always in demand and well paid.

[Mark]

On 25 Jul 2017 15:39:58 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>On 2017-07-25, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> On 25/07/2017 12:03, JoeJoe wrote:
>>
>>> And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
>>
>> Also what many seem to fail to grasp is that if you legislate away the
>> ability to have "gig economy" type jobs, then the jobs don't suddenly
>> become more secure contracts of employment, they just vanish altogether
>> as the business models become non-viable.
>

>Politicians in general don't realise that people change their behaviour
>as a result of legislation. Lefties in particular don't realise that people
>don't merely smile and cough up when taxes reach punitive levels.

What? Most people moan about taxes but it doesn't change their
behaviour. I am not referring to the extremly rich gits who will do
anything to avoid their fair share of texes.

[Mark]

That's great, as long as you can afford to live.

[Harry Bloomfield]

on 25/07/2017, Mark supposed :

> That's great, as long as you can afford to live.

By todays expected standards, I could not. So I struggled until I could
afford a better standard of living. Today, they expect to have the best
of everything at once.

[Mark]

Who are the people you are referring to by "they"?

[Robin]

Well I suggest "they" include the two 20-somethings I sat next to on the
train last week commiserating with one another about how little they
were paid, how expensive accommodation is, etc - each clutching a coffee
which must have cost c.£2 each and a baguette that cost more.

At their age I'd have had DIY'd - ie gulped an instant coffee before
leaving home (or filled a flask if a long trip) - and made sandwiches
for my lunch. The argument that "property is so expensive there's no
point saving" or "there's no room in my shared rabbit hutch to boil an
egg" doesn't explain their behaviour. And I do get a bid fed up when
people like Willetts talk as if all baby boomers grew up in comfort,
ignoring things like working at weekends and in school holidays in order
to afford essentials.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[John Rumm]

That seems to differ from the message that his shadow cabinet was promoting:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/key-ally-of-jeremy-corbyn-caught-on-video-making-pledge-to-wipe-off-student-debts-a3595646.html

[Rod Speed]

"whisky-dave" <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:703516dc-6ee4-4a2b...@googlegroups.com...

> On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 11:56:54 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> soup has brought this to us :
>> > You could be on to something .
>> > Beard ----------------- check
>> > Talks bollocks -------- check
>> > Thinks he's god --------Check.
>> > Yup definitely,of to do research on the Jesus-Corbyn connection.
>>
>> Where there any reports of Corbyn doing a trick with bread and fish?
>
> Last time I tried a trick like that I got arrested for indecency ;-)
>
> of course there's those that have met Jesus some have
> seen paintings of him, others have seen photos of him
> and some have seen him in 3d HD surround sound.

> But does anyone really know what Jesus really looked like ?

Yep, he has these holes in his hands and is pretty badly sunburnt.

> is it realy likely that someone with white
> skin and blue eyes be born in Bethlehem ?

He noticed what Jackson got up to when he wasn’t raping children.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Robin has brought this to us :

> Well I suggest "they" include the two 20-somethings I sat next to on the
> train last week commiserating with one another about how little they were
> paid, how expensive accommodation is, etc - each clutching a coffee which
> must have cost c.£2 each and a baguette that cost more.
>
> At their age I'd have had DIY'd - ie gulped an instant coffee before leaving
> home (or filled a flask if a long trip) - and made sandwiches for my lunch.
> The argument that "property is so expensive there's no point saving" or
> "there's no room in my shared rabbit hutch to boil an egg" doesn't explain
> their behaviour. And I do get a bid fed up when people like Willetts talk as
> if all baby boomers grew up in comfort, ignoring things like working at
> weekends and in school holidays in order to afford essentials.

Very well put.

Modern youngsters expect everything at once. The best mobile phones, a
car, a home of their own all that goes with it and it has to be instant
- no saving up for things and gradually improving your standard of
living.

I did GCE's in the day and did a spare time job for pocket money. When
I began work, I used buses, until I had enough saved to buy a wreck of
a motorbike. I could not afford the proper clothes, so I froze in
winter, whilst working every hour I was offered.

Like everyone at the time, my home living standards were far below
ideal.

[Harry Bloomfield]

John Rumm explained :

> On 25/07/2017 15:35, whisky-dave wrote:
>> On Monday, 24 July 2017 18:26:20 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>>
>>>
>>>
> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>>
>> They (the metro) got it wrong that is not what he said.
>>
>> I saw what he did say via a friend from FB last night, he;d said he;d
>> refund all 2017-2018 fee, and would lok at what could be done with
>> present debts either by lowering teh intereest rate or increasing teh
>> loan time i.e longer payback time.
>
> That seems to differ from the message that his shadow cabinet was promoting:
>
> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/key-ally-of-jeremy-corbyn-caught-on-video-making-pledge-to-wipe-off-student-debts-a3595646.html

Thanks, that was what heard was announced.

[JoeJoe]

So? Choose to live in a place where you can afford to live.

[JoeJoe]

+1

I had three jobs when I was young - 90-110 hours per week for a year,
dropped to around 45 per week during university (I was paying foreign
student fees, very similar to what they are paying now). It was a killer
and I was paid what was effectively minimum wage at the time.

I expected nothing from the state (I could have claimed if I wanted to)
and I took nothing from the state (or anyone else for that matter).

[tim...]

"whisky-dave" <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:22a7e8f3-ec2d-473f...@googlegroups.com...

OK

>or increasing teh loan time i.e longer payback time.

how does that help? - at the moment the payback time is to the student's
benefit in writing off the remaining debt

tim

[tim...]

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:ZO2dnWM_7OfgxerE...@brightview.co.uk...

> On 25/07/2017 12:03, JoeJoe wrote:
>
>> And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
>
> Also what many seem to fail to grasp is that if you legislate away the
> ability to have "gig economy" type jobs, then the jobs don't suddenly
> become more secure contracts of employment, they just vanish altogether as
> the business models become non-viable.

some do, some don't

Personally, I don't believe that Deliveroo would be missed if it disappeared
because its business model was unviable - we would still have fast food
"employed" delivery men.

And there will still be taxi drivers and parcel delivery men, if these jobs
moved (back) out of the gig economy

tim

[Rod Speed]

"tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ol8a5t$thb$1...@dont-email.me...

>
>
> "whisky-dave" <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:22a7e8f3-ec2d-473f...@googlegroups.com...
>> On Monday, 24 July 2017 18:26:20 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>>
>>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>>
>> They (the metro) got it wrong that is not what he said.
>>
>> I saw what he did say via a friend from FB last night, he;d said he;d
>> refund all 2017-2018 fee, and would lok at what could be done with
>> present debts either by lowering teh intereest rate
>
> OK
>
>>or increasing teh loan time i.e longer payback time.
>
> how does that help?

Means less to pay each year.

> - at the moment the payback time is to the student's benefit in writing
> off the remaining debt

Sure, but leaves the student with less to spend every year.

[tim...]

"Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
news:250720171853145590%timst...@greenbee.net...
> In article <acrenclb9e45b3m15...@4ax.com>, Mark

> Christ, are you a twerp as well? Of course it changes their behaviour.
> You do this instead of that.
>
> You ever filled in a tax return? Then you've "avoided" tax.

um, no

I do it because I get fined if I don't

tim

[Rod Speed]

"Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
news:250720171853145590%timst...@greenbee.net...
> In article <acrenclb9e45b3m15...@4ax.com>, Mark
> <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote:
>

> Christ, are you a twerp as well? Of course it changes their behaviour.
> You do this instead of that.
>
> You ever filled in a tax return? Then you've "avoided" tax.

Not if you still owe them after you have filled in a tax return.

[Rod Speed]

Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote
> JoeJoe wrote

>> From my experience, if you are skilled, work hard and are
>> good at what you do then you are very rarely out of a job.

> In my day, it was a matter of investing in yourself

Not always, plenty didn't need to do that here.

> - struggling for a few years on low pay whilst you trained,

I didn't struggle at all, and in fact bought
a new car while I trained and was low paid.

> then later in life you saw the rewards.

I saw the rewards very quickly, by speculating
on the stock market during out mining boom.

> The rewards of being always in demand and well paid.

In the years I physically built my own house, I ended up
with a higher net income than the top banana at work, and
that was quite apart from the stock exchange speculation.

[Rod Speed]

"Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:vr4k4e-...@squidward.local.dionic.net...

And that other famous woman with startling bright green eyes from roughly
there.

[Rod Speed]

"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message
news:6inenclks1sti7k4o...@4ax.com...

Depends on the skill you choose to be qualified in.

The PHucker is an example of someone too stupid to work
out what would pay well enough where he wanted to live.

[Rod Speed]

"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message

news:2anenc9dsakfcg612...@4ax.com...

Corse Labour never ever does anything like that, eh ?

[Rod Speed]

"tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ol8ad7$u8s$1...@dont-email.me...

>
>
> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> news:ZO2dnWM_7OfgxerE...@brightview.co.uk...
>> On 25/07/2017 12:03, JoeJoe wrote:
>>
>>> And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
>>
>> Also what many seem to fail to grasp is that if you legislate away the
>> ability to have "gig economy" type jobs, then the jobs don't suddenly
>> become more secure contracts of employment, they just vanish altogether
>> as the business models become non-viable.
>
> some do, some don't
>
> Personally, I don't believe that Deliveroo would be missed if it
> disappeared because its business model was unviable - we would still have
> fast food "employed" delivery men.

They don’t deliver the same food.

> And there will still be taxi drivers and parcel delivery men, if these
> jobs moved (back) out of the gig economy

Sure, but some other stuff would just die.

[DJC]

On 25/07/17 10:20, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 17:25:07 -0700 (PDT), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> We'll tell the kids that they need not pay any University fees,
> we'll
>>> wriggle out of it later.

>>> The complete process is corrupt. Pity the kids can't see it.
>>

>> I find it odd that people seem to just believe what they want to be
>> true.
>
> They just read and believe the headline, they don't bother reading
> the story. Which will carry the bias of which ever rag they are
> reading.
>
> I don't think Labour ever said they would write off existing Student
> Loans only that they would "look for ways" of doing so. They might
> fiddle with the current system, which wasn't broken until some smart
> arse allowed the fees to rise and changed the Maintenance element
> from a grant to loan, that instantly adds £25290 to the £27750 Fees
> loan (17-18 academic year), making £53040+ for the average 3 year
> course outside London.
>
> That level of loan just isn't going to get paid back, even before the
> Maintenance Grant was added only about 1/3 of the loans where paid
> off, that's going to drop even lower making the debt far less
> attractive for investors. Mind you with interest whilst studying and
> util the April after you finish of RPI + 3%, then RPI (income below
> 21k) to RPI + 3% (Income > 41k) perhaps paying off the loan isn't
> important.
>
> Say a graduate has income of £25k, they'll pay back 9% of 25 - 21 =
> £360. RPI at 2% gives interest of £1060 on £53k... At 41k income they
> pay back £1800 but the interest is now 5% = £2650. A graduate has to
> earn over £50k just to pay the interest. Simplistically add another
> £20k to a graduates income to pay back the "capital" inside the 30
> year write off period.


It's a Graduate Tax in all but name, if you earn enough you pay that
extra tax, if you don't earn enough you don't pay the tax though you
will have than repayment/tax liability hanging around for 30 years.

If the 'debt burden' makes students a bit more questioning of the value
of a 'degree' and the sort of degree that adds enough value to justify
the expense then it is a good thing.

>
> How many graduates will start on £70k, indeed how many will get to
> £70k in 30 years...
>
> The maths just add up, either I've got something wrong or economics
> are even weirder than I think they are.
>


--
djc

(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

[TimW]

On 25/07/17 15:35, whisky-dave wrote:

> On Monday, 24 July 2017 18:26:20 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
>>
>> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
>

> They (the metro) got it wrong that is not what he said.
>

> I saw what he did say via a friend from FB last night, he;d said he;d refund all 2017-2018 fee, and would lok at what could be done with present debts either by lowering teh intereest rate or increasing teh loan time i.e longer payback time.
>

You are quite right. It wasn't in the manifesto, it was never policy,
there was never any promise. The Tory shitewash machine has found a clip
of Corbyn saying he would like to look at existing student debt and has
dishonestly built a no-existent hoo-ha out of it.

Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.

TW

[The Natural Philosopher]

What a load of shitewash.

> TW


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 25/07/17 21:45, tim... wrote:
>>
>> You ever filled in a tax return? Then you've "avoided" tax.
>
> um, no
>
> I do it because I get fined if I don't

Golly. The logic...astounds.

"Mr tim, do you practice pedetrian avoidance when driving? "

" No I do it because otherwise I would get fined".



Therw are thick cunts and there are...tims

--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

> >> >> http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/23/jeremy-corbyn-insists-he-never-promised-to-write-off-student-debt-6799943/
> >> >
> >> >> There will be some very disappointed young Labour voters :-)
> >> >

> >> > I take it then Tory voters are very happy virtually the entire Tory
> >> > manifesto was dropped after their 'victory'?
> >> >
> >> > But of course why worry about what a government does when you can have
> >> > a
> >> > go at the opposition? You've obviously learnt this works from Trump.
> >>
> >> Obviously May took the advice of some clueless fuckwit.

> >> Heaven knows why, shirley some other person should have warned her that
> >> she
> >> was on a suicide course.
> >> Never mind, these clueless fuckwits will get adequately compensated.
> >> That's
> >> what it's all about after all, money.
> >> Principles? You must be fucking joking.
> >> Even *I* (anyone) could have produced a better manifesto.
> >> Come in Steptoe, lets take advantage of the situation. We'll talk
> >> bollocks,
> >> any bollocks, it's better than the Tories, and it surely was.

> >> We'll tell the kids that they need not pay any University fees, we'll
> >> wriggle out of it later.
> >> The complete process is corrupt. Pity the kids can't see it.
> >
> >I find it odd that people seem to just believe what they want to be true.
>

> Big business in just that scenario. Think churches, mosques, synagogues,
> temples...

beauty products.


NT

[harry]

On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 11:06:15 UTC+1, soup wrote:
> On 25/07/2017 09:30, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> > soup formulated on Tuesday :
> >> On 24/07/2017 21:21, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> >>> The Natural Philosopher submitted this idea :
> >>>> teach em never to trust a cunt with a beard.
> >>> lol
> >>> Jesus?
>
> >> Especially him.
> >> If there was a chappy called "Jesus" wandering about the middle east
> >> 2000 years ago he was talking bollocks.
> > Maybe Corbyn in a previous life?

>
> You could be on to something .
> Beard ----------------- check
> Talks bollocks -------- check
> Thinks he's god --------Check.
> Yup definitely,of to do research on the Jesus-Corbyn connection.

Plus feeds the five thousand (from the magic money tree?)

[harry]

On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 12:58:05 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 25/07/17 11:06, soup wrote:
> > On 25/07/2017 09:30, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> >> soup formulated on Tuesday :
> >>> On 24/07/2017 21:21, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> >>>> The Natural Philosopher submitted this idea :
> >>>>> teach em never to trust a cunt with a beard.
> >>>> lol
> >>>> Jesus?
> >
> >>> Especially him.
> >>> If there was a chappy called "Jesus" wandering about the middle east
> >>> 2000 years ago he was talking bollocks.
> >> Maybe Corbyn in a previous life?
> >
> > You could be on to something .
> > Beard ----------------- check
> > Talks bollocks -------- check
> > Thinks he's god --------Check.
> > Yup definitely,of to do research on the Jesus-Corbyn connection.
> >

> THEY EVEN HAVE THE SAME INITIALS.
>
> I wish he would try walking on water from dover to calais though.
>

Back then people didn't have second names.
He might have been Jesus,son of Joseph.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <6inenclks1sti7k4o...@4ax.com>,

Mark <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote:
> >>> In the late 1970s, it was the unions who eventually threw Labour out,
> >>> when Labour ran out of money to pay public sector workers, with
> >>> inflation running at over 12%.
> >>
> >> Far better today, then. Buying a house impossible for many, Rents sky
> >> high.
> >
> >Rents/house prices are still very affordable if you move away from
> >London/south of England.

> WTF? You need to visit other parts of the country. There are many
> areas where housing is not "very affordable">

Yes. In an area where there is no work to be had.

> >And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.

> True.

But wasn't once anything like as common as now.

> > From my experience, if you are skilled, work hard and are good at what
> >you do then you are very rarely out of a job.

> But that doesn't automatically mean it pays well enough.

Wonder what Joe Joe's experience is of the new job market today?

--
*IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE?

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <etp72e...@mid.individual.net>,

Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-07-25, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:

> > On 25/07/2017 12:03, JoeJoe wrote:
> >

> >> And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
> >

> > Also what many seem to fail to grasp is that if you legislate away the
> > ability to have "gig economy" type jobs, then the jobs don't suddenly
> > become more secure contracts of employment, they just vanish
> > altogether as the business models become non-viable.

> Politicians in general don't realise that people change their behaviour
> as a result of legislation. Lefties in particular don't realise that
> people don't merely smile and cough up when taxes reach punitive levels.

And a top rate of 5% IT would be punitive to many Tories. Who want plenty
of services provided for them - but just don't want to pay up.

--
*If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? *

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <ol8ad7$u8s$1...@dont-email.me>,

tim... <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Personally, I don't believe that Deliveroo would be missed if it
> disappeared because its business model was unviable - we would still
> have fast food "employed" delivery men.

I'd be delighted if it disappeared. Would cut congestion considerably.
Same with Uber.

> And there will still be taxi drivers and parcel delivery men, if these
> jobs moved (back) out of the gig economy

Of course. But perhaps only the more essential ones.

--
*Don't use no double negatives *

[John Rumm]

There will still be *some*, just not as many. So what's better a non
guaranteed income meaning you can be productive and a tax payer (or at
least lesser consumer of benefits), or being stuck on unemployment benefit?




--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[soup]

On 26/07/2017 09:12, harry wrote:
> On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 12:58:05 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> THEY EVEN HAVE THE SAME INITIALS.

> Back then people didn't have second names.
> He might have been Jesus,son of Joseph.

Shouldn't that be 'Yeshua, son of Joseph'?

Yes I know it is really the same name (just different translations) .

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 25/07/17 23:49, TimW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS7JmLY8EP8

Now STFU.

That isnt a tory, that's the shdaow minisetr of justice reprsenting te
Labour party.

And here is a labour MP

https://i0.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/sharon.png?w=540&ssl=1



--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

[bm]

"TimW" <t...@mysurname.me.uk> wrote in message
news:ol8hlm$luh$1...@dont-email.me...

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, it's the Tories fault.
LMFAO.

[Rod Speed]

"harry" <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:86a52931-667d-4439...@googlegroups.com...

Son of some god or other, stupid.

[TimW]

On 26/07/17 10:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/07/17 23:49, TimW wrote:
>>
>> You are quite right. It wasn't in the manifesto, it was never policy,
>> there was never any promise. The Tory shitewash machine has found a
>> clip of Corbyn saying he would like to look at existing student debt
>> and has dishonestly built a no-existent hoo-ha out of it.
>>
>> Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.
>>
>> TW
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS7JmLY8EP8

he is saying something about existing students, not about former
students. But some idiots lap it up.

>
> Now STFU.
>
> That isnt a tory, that's the shdaow minisetr of justice reprsenting te
> Labour party.
>
> And here is a labour MP
>
> https://i0.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/sharon.png?w=540&ssl=1
>

Pathetic. a tweet in which she says they 'could' write off debt. Is that
the best you have?

Here is George Osborne promising that a Conservative government will
altogether scrap tuition fees, comprehensively and on Commons notepaper.
But Tories, eh? can you trust them?

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/07/26/oops-2003-letter-from-george-osborne-pledging-tory-government-will-scrap-tuition-fees/

TW

[TimW]

On 26/07/17 11:20, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <ol8hlm$luh$1...@dont-email.me>, TimW <t...@mysurname.me.uk>

> I must have imagined the video of shadow ministers promising it then.
>

Yes, You did.
TW

[TimW]

On 26/07/17 11:22, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <ol8hlm$luh$1...@dont-email.me>, TimW <t...@mysurname.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>

>> ... It wasn't in the manifesto, it was never policy,

>> there was never any promise. The Tory shitewash machine has found a
>> clip of Corbyn saying he would like to look at existing student debt
>> and has dishonestly built a no-existent hoo-ha out of it.
>>
>> Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.
>

> That would include all the students who took his nod and wink as a
> definite promise, then?
>

Voters are not naive and gullible, students or others. They know as well
as you what value to put on the words of a politician courting votes.

This idea of yours that the Labour party really intended to write off
historic student debt, promised to do so on record but only once, forgot
to put it in the manifesto and didn't bother campaigning on the issue
despite it being a real vote winner, but now even though they aren't in
government have decided to contradict what they previously said just to
create some bad press for themselves....
... think about it Tim. It is total fucking nonsense and it has
come out of the Conservative Party's Department of Dirty Smears for
Desperate Days. You can see that because you aren't as stupid as tnp,
are you?
TW

[The Natural Philosopher]

Stick your fingers in your ears as much as you like.




--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 26/07/17 10:44, TimW wrote:

> On 26/07/17 10:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 25/07/17 23:49, TimW wrote:
>>>
>>> You are quite right. It wasn't in the manifesto, it was never policy,
>>> there was never any promise. The Tory shitewash machine has found a
>>> clip of Corbyn saying he would like to look at existing student debt
>>> and has dishonestly built a no-existent hoo-ha out of it.
>>>
>>> Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.
>>>
>>> TW
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS7JmLY8EP8
>
> he is saying something about existing students, not about former
> students. But some idiots lap it up.

No, he is talking about abolsihing tuitioon fees and saying every
student will get ther debts wiped off.

[JoeJoe]

On 26/07/2017 11:45, TimW wrote:
> On 26/07/17 11:22, Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <ol8hlm$luh$1...@dont-email.me>, TimW <t...@mysurname.me.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ... It wasn't in the manifesto, it was never policy,
>>> there was never any promise. The Tory shitewash machine has found a
>>> clip of Corbyn saying he would like to look at existing student debt
>>> and has dishonestly built a no-existent hoo-ha out of it.
>>>
>>> Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.
>>
>> That would include all the students who took his nod and wink as a
>> definite promise, then?
>>
>
> Voters are not naive and gullible, students or others. They know as well
> as you what value to put on the words of a politician courting votes.

No they do not. The young ones tend to believe everything

[TimW]

On 26/07/17 11:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 26/07/17 10:44, TimW wrote:
>> On 26/07/17 10:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 25/07/17 23:49, TimW wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You are quite right. It wasn't in the manifesto, it was never policy,
>>>> there was never any promise. The Tory shitewash machine has found a
>>>> clip of Corbyn saying he would like to look at existing student debt
>>>> and has dishonestly built a no-existent hoo-ha out of it.
>>>>
>>>> Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.
>>>>
>>>> TW
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS7JmLY8EP8
>>
>> he is saying something about existing students, not about former
>> students. But some idiots lap it up.
>
> No, he is talking about abolsihing tuitioon fees and saying every
> student will get ther debts wiped off.
>

You could listen to it yourself but clearly can't be arsed:
"Every existing student will have all their debt wiped off"
Not every student who ever had a loan. Sheesh.
TW

[tim...]

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message

news:iZ-dnUqID-FYx-XE...@brightview.co.uk...

> On 25/07/2017 21:44, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
>> news:ZO2dnWM_7OfgxerE...@brightview.co.uk...
>>> On 25/07/2017 12:03, JoeJoe wrote:
>>>
>>>> And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
>>>
>>> Also what many seem to fail to grasp is that if you legislate away the
>>> ability to have "gig economy" type jobs, then the jobs don't suddenly
>>> become more secure contracts of employment, they just vanish
>>> altogether as the business models become non-viable.
>>
>> some do, some don't
>>
>> Personally, I don't believe that Deliveroo would be missed if it
>> disappeared because its business model was unviable - we would still
>> have fast food "employed" delivery men.
>>
>> And there will still be taxi drivers and parcel delivery men, if these
>> jobs moved (back) out of the gig economy
>
> There will still be *some*, just not as many. So what's better a non
> guaranteed income meaning you can be productive and a tax payer (or at
> least lesser consumer of benefits), or being stuck on unemployment
> benefit?

I'm, not convinced that these are the only choices

tim

[tim...]

"TimW" <t...@mysurname.me.uk> wrote in message

news:ol9rkk$qtr$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 26/07/17 11:22, Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <ol8hlm$luh$1...@dont-email.me>, TimW <t...@mysurname.me.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ... It wasn't in the manifesto, it was never policy,
>>> there was never any promise. The Tory shitewash machine has found a
>>> clip of Corbyn saying he would like to look at existing student debt
>>> and has dishonestly built a no-existent hoo-ha out of it.
>>>
>>> Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.
>>
>> That would include all the students who took his nod and wink as a
>> definite promise, then?
>>
>
> Voters are not naive and gullible, students or others.

some are

remember "you can fool all of the people some of the time..."

tim

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 26/07/17 11:45, TimW wrote:
> On 26/07/17 11:22, Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <ol8hlm$luh$1...@dont-email.me>, TimW <t...@mysurname.me.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ... It wasn't in the manifesto, it was never policy,
>>> there was never any promise. The Tory shitewash machine has found a
>>> clip of Corbyn saying he would like to look at existing student debt
>>> and has dishonestly built a no-existent hoo-ha out of it.
>>>
>>> Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.
>>
>> That would include all the students who took his nod and wink as a
>> definite promise, then?
>>
>
> Voters are not naive and gullible, students or others. They know as well
> as you what value to put on the words of a politician courting votes.

Students are. Always were. Some never grow out of it. Look at plowperson.

>
> This idea of yours that the Labour party really intended to write off
> historic student debt, promised to do so on record but only once, forgot
> to put it in the manifesto and didn't bother campaigning on the issue
> despite it being a real vote winner, but now even though they aren't in
> government have decided to contradict what they previously said just to
> create some bad press for themselves....
> ... think about it Tim. It is total fucking nonsense and it has
> come out of the Conservative Party's Department of Dirty Smears for
> Desperate Days. You can see that because you aren't as stupid as tnp,
> are you?
> TW

Oh dear. Idol got clay feet again?


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

[John Rumm]

On 26/07/2017 12:20, tim... wrote:
>
>
> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> news:iZ-dnUqID-FYx-XE...@brightview.co.uk...
>> On 25/07/2017 21:44, tim... wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
>>> news:ZO2dnWM_7OfgxerE...@brightview.co.uk...
>>>> On 25/07/2017 12:03, JoeJoe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
>>>>
>>>> Also what many seem to fail to grasp is that if you legislate away the
>>>> ability to have "gig economy" type jobs, then the jobs don't suddenly
>>>> become more secure contracts of employment, they just vanish
>>>> altogether as the business models become non-viable.
>>>
>>> some do, some don't
>>>
>>> Personally, I don't believe that Deliveroo would be missed if it
>>> disappeared because its business model was unviable - we would still
>>> have fast food "employed" delivery men.
>>>
>>> And there will still be taxi drivers and parcel delivery men, if these
>>> jobs moved (back) out of the gig economy
>>
>> There will still be *some*, just not as many. So what's better a non
>> guaranteed income meaning you can be productive and a tax payer (or at
>> least lesser consumer of benefits), or being stuck on unemployment
>> benefit?
>
> I'm, not convinced that these are the only choices

They are the only choices in some of the cases, maybe not all. Taking
away a choice helps no one.

One of the great strengths of the UK labour force is its flexibility -
the fact that we have people willing to work in a variety of forms, not
just traditional employment, and the legal framework to make that
possible. Its a big incentive for firms to locate here because its
easier to get the staff when they need them, and critically, get rid of
them when they don't.

[Mark]

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:48:11 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <6inenclks1sti7k4o...@4ax.com>,
> Mark <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote:
>> >>> In the late 1970s, it was the unions who eventually threw Labour out,
>> >>> when Labour ran out of money to pay public sector workers, with
>> >>> inflation running at over 12%.
>> >>
>> >> Far better today, then. Buying a house impossible for many, Rents sky
>> >> high.
>> >
>> >Rents/house prices are still very affordable if you move away from
>> >London/south of England.
>
>> WTF? You need to visit other parts of the country. There are many
>> areas where housing is not "very affordable">
>
>Yes. In an area where there is no work to be had.

No. In areas where there is work, but most people can't afford to
live nearby.

>> >And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
>
>> True.
>
>But wasn't once anything like as common as now.

What?

[Mark]

Rubbish. Although many people believe the crap printed in the Daily
Express.

[whisky-dave]

On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 15:41:04 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
> On 25/07/2017 12:03, JoeJoe wrote:
>

> > And lots and lots of jobs around with zero security or prospects.
>

> Also what many seem to fail to grasp is that if you legislate away the
> ability to have "gig economy" type jobs, then the jobs don't suddenly
> become more secure contracts of employment, they just vanish altogether
> as the business models become non-viable.

That's only true of certain jobs most of those that have become zero hours shouldn't be zero hours companies need to sort out better ways of employing peolpe and not choose the easieit or cheapest for them.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/eight-hours-week-tesco-contract-9908849


One of the problems with such jobs is you can't do another one at the same time as you have to be availble for both if needed.

[whisky-dave]

On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 16:31:50 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
> On 25/07/17 15:51, whisky-dave wrote:
>
> > But does anyone really know what Jesus really looked like ?
> > is it realy likely that someone with white skin and blue eyes be born in Bethlehem ?
> >
> >
>
> Not totally impossible:
>
> http://www.uangry.com/mariam/images/p12.jpg
>
> (Pashtun bloke, brownish but not massively dark skin and blue eyes)

Well the flat caps close but not the black beard.

I've often wondered why the Bible didn't bother to descibe the person they are refering to.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <iZ-dnUqID-FYx-XE...@brightview.co.uk>,

John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> > Personally, I don't believe that Deliveroo would be missed if it
> > disappeared because its business model was unviable - we would still
> > have fast food "employed" delivery men.
> >
> > And there will still be taxi drivers and parcel delivery men, if these
> > jobs moved (back) out of the gig economy

> There will still be *some*, just not as many. So what's better a non
> guaranteed income meaning you can be productive and a tax payer (or at
> least lesser consumer of benefits), or being stuck on unemployment
> benefit?

Commonly asked question in the US. Do you employ an 'illegal' as a cleaner
or not? You might not be able to afford a legal worker.

So for those opposed to immigrants, only employ them on a proper
regularised basis. If there was no cash in hand jobs (or low paid ones),
fewer would come here.

--
*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <260720171122098015%timst...@greenbee.net>,

Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> >Some of the idiots round here have lapped it up.

> That would include all the students who took his nod and wink as a
> definite promise, then?

Like all those who voted Brexit believed what Farage etc promised, then?
Including the likes of Boris who is a member of this government - not of
the opposition?

--
*Reality? Is that where the pizza delivery guy comes from?