MUFON ALERT

[Dave Haith]

Passing this interesting story on

Dave Haith

 

* MUFON ALERT * MUFON ALERT * MUFON ALERT * As a MUFON Newsletter subscriber there will be occasions, once or twice a year, when MUFON receives vital information that we feel is important to share with you. When we do, this information will be sent out to you as a MUFON ALERT. This is the first such ALERT and recounts the testimony of a highly credible witness regarding an unusual sighting over a famous part of the United States as well as corroboration of one of the most important events in U.S. history if it did in fact happen. You be the judge. This story and MUFON's investigation of it will be covered in more depth in the March issue of the MUFON Journal. For those who are already MUFON members you read about this in my January Director's message, and you will get even more information in this month's issue of the MUFON Journal. Please feel free to post or forward this e-mail to others you know may have an interest. All good wishes, Jan C. Harzan Executive Director   Quick Links Join Our Mailing List   MUFON Case Files   #52573 and #52576      I received a call recently from a retired TWA pilot who urgently needed to speak with me. He introduced himself as a commercial airline pilot with 48 years of flying experience who had had two incredible sightings during his career as a pilot that he now felt comfortable talking about since he was retired, but that was not what prompted him to call, it was a more intriguing story that I will share with you in just a minute. He started off by sharing a report of being the co-pilot on a TWA flight from Saint Louis to San Francisco, the flight had been delayed several hours due to mechanical problems, but finally got off the ground late in the evening heading West. As the flight approached the state of Nevada Air Traffic Control (ATC) broke the silence stating that traffic was in the area and requested they make an immediate 90 degree turn to the North and wait further instructions, an odd request at nearly 1am and 36,000 feet. Usually little or no air traffic existed at this hour of the morning, especially at this altitude. They immediately followed the instructions given by ATC. As they were heading North he happened to look down and see what appeared to be an ILS turn on, on the dark desert surface below. For those who are not familiar, an ILS is an Instrument Landing System. This ILS was different though, it was a 3-dimensional hologram, something he had never seen before as an airline pilot. It was also blue with violet light crossing at 90 degree angles. The next thing he noticed was that in the upper right hand corner of their cockpit windshield there appeared to be maybe 20-30 firefly type lights flitting around way up high in the sky, they then began making hard right angle turns and shot one after the other down the holographic ILS until every one of them was on the ground. Then the ILS turned off and it was pitch black again on the ground. He turned to the pilot and asked, "Did we just see that?" The pilot looked at him and answered, "No sir, we did not". ATC then came back on the radio and said that they were now clear of any traffic and gave them a new course heading to San Francisco. The exact location of where the holographic ILS opened up and the lights in the sky made hard right angle turns to land was Area 51 he told me. The year was 1988.    His second story was even more bizarre and corroborates stories that have been circulating for a number of years in the UFO field. It was around the spring of 1960. and he was camping with his uncle and his uncle's friend in the western Sierras. It was nighttime and as he looked up at the night sky the Milky Way looked so close he could almost touch it. As he was looking up he said out loud, "I wonder if we will see a flying saucer tonight?" His uncle's friend who we'll call Frank said to him, "Oh, do you believe in flying saucers?" His reply was short, "Why of course, it would be silly to think that we are all alone with all that we can see that is out there." Frank then said, "Well then, I'll tell you a story but if you ever tell anyone I told you, I'll have to deny it". He then went on to recount how in 1954 while working as a contractor at Edwards Air Force base that one day there was a lot of commotion and a car pulled up and President Eisenhower stepped out of it. He asked one of the MPs standing nearby "What is the President doing at Edwards AFB?" The MP replied, "He's here to meet with beings from another world". At his point he noticed several congressmen get out of the car, and a representative from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and they proceeded to go into a building on the base that was heavily guarded by MPs. Later that day after the cars had left and the commotion had died down Frank asked his MP friend "So what happened?" Frank was told that the beings told the President that we were destroying the planet and needed to stop immediately (remember this was 1954 and the USA had been setting off Atomic Bombs in the Southwest deserts of the US with some regularity while doing nuclear weapons testing). They told the President that if the United States would take responsibility to be the caretaker of the planet they would be willing to share their technology with us. Our witness thought Frank was kidding him when he told him this story, and never gave it much thought until just recently when he saw a story on TV about the Eisenhower meeting and thought to himself "Holy Cow" Frank WAS telling me the TRUTH! And this was in 1960!!!    Now my reason for sharing these two stories with you is not to get you to believe that Area 51 exists, or that the Eisenhower meeting with beings from another world was real, but to tell you that the power of MUFON is that people TRUST MUFON as the place to go to share their UFO sighting reports and more. This trust is earned each and everyday by the outstanding work our Field Investigators do in chasing down the facts on each and every case, including the ones just shared above. I know that there are more of these incredible stories out there with people just dying to tell us if we are only willing to listen, and I look forward to sharing them with you in the months and years ahead.   Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) 3822 Campus Drive, Suite 201  Newport Beach, CA 92660 949-47MUFON or 949-476-8366 www.mufon.com

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[Martin Shough]

An ALERT – and a red one, no less! Breaking news about an “urgent” report.  So what have we got... an anonymous source tells a story of how an anonymous friend of his unnamed uncle told him a story over half a century ago about how an anonymous MP at Edwards some years before that had told the anonymous uncle a story about Eisenhower being there to meet with aliens.

 

“The power of MUFON is that people trust MUFON as the place to go... to share their incredible stories...”  Trust that MUFON will circulate any vague rumour fed to it as a red alert is no use to anone else. “This trust is earned each and everyday by the outstanding work our Field Investigators do in chasing down the facts on each and every case, including the ones just shared above.” Including the ones just shared? Would that this were true and that MUFON had indeed “chased down” even one single fact before publishing this yarn.

 

Dave is not wrong that it is an “interesting story”, but that’s all it is.

 

Martin Shough

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[Albert Baier]

"...At his point he noticed several congressmen get out of the car, and a representative from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and they proceeded to go into a building on the base that was heavily guarded by MPs...."

This strains my credulity. Even if everything else were true (e.g. Ike was at Edwards, he met with aliens, an MP knowing all the details of the meeting), who on this earth could identify "several congressmen" _and_ a "representative from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles"?

I would have left that part out.

I can accept strange goings on at Area 51, but this is ridiculous.

[Jerome Clark]

Martin and all,

Some years ago, while doing research for my encyclopedia series, I collected accounts alleging high-level alien contacts.  The first such, I found, involves President Truman and is set in 1948 Alaska.  In those days the lore was confined mostly to contactee and fringe circles.  Does the current excitement suggest that ufology, or some of it anyway, is regressing to its childhood?

The Eisenhower yarn, of course, has been in circulation since the mid-1950s.  How it gets to be an urgent, red-hot alert in 2014 is a mystery only MUFON can answer.

Jerry Clark

 

His second story was even more bizarre and corroborates stories that have been circulating for a number of years in the UFO field. It was around the spring of 1960. and he was camping with his uncle and his uncle's friend in the western Sierras. It was nighttime and as he looked up at the night sky the Milky Way looked so close he could almost touch it. As he was looking up he said out loud, "I wonder if we will see a flying saucer tonight?" His uncle's friend who we'll call Frank said to him, "Oh, do you believe in flying saucers?" His reply was short, "Why of course, it would be silly to think that we are all alone with all that we can see that is out there." Frank then said, "Well then, I'll tell you a story but if you ever tell anyone I told you, I'll have to deny it". He then went on to recount how in 1954 while working as a contractor at Edwards Air Force base that one day there was a lot of commotion and a car pulled up and President Eisenhower stepped out of it. He asked one of the MPs standing nearby "What is the President doing at Edwards AFB?" The MP replied, "He's here to meet with beings from another world". At his point he noticed several congressmen get out of the car, and a representative from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and they proceeded to go into a building on the base that was heavily guarded by MPs. Later that day after the cars had left and the commotion had died down Frank asked his MP friend "So what happened?" Frank was told that the beings told the President that we were destroying the planet and needed to stop immediately (remember this was 1954 and the USA had been setting off Atomic Bombs in the Southwest deserts of the US with some regularity while doing nuclear weapons testing). They told the President that if the United States would take responsibility to be the caretaker of the planet they would be willing to share their technology with us. Our witness thought Frank was kidding him when he told him this story, and never gave it much thought until just recently when he saw a story on TV about the Eisenhower meeting and thought to himself "Holy Cow" Frank WAStelling me the TRUTH! And this was in 1960!!!

Now my reason for sharing these two stories with you is not to get you to believe that Area 51 exists, or that the Eisenhower meeting with beings from another world was real, but to tell you that the power of MUFON is that people TRUST MUFON as the place to go to share their UFO sighting reports and more. This trust is earned each and everyday by the outstanding work our Field Investigators do in chasing down the facts on each and every case, including the ones just shared above. I know that there are more of these incredible stories out there with people just dying to tell us if we are only willing to listen, and I look forward to sharing them with you in the months and years ahead.

Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) 3822 Campus Drive, Suite 201  Newport Beach, CA 92660 949-47MUFON or 949-476-8366 www.mufon.com

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[Lance Moody]

Jerry Clark's characterization of MUFON regressing to childhood is particularly apt. And I wonder if it was inevitable.

From the beginning of the public fascination with UFOs, the local saucer groups were often divided into two incompatiable types of people: those searching for a tangible "nuts and bolts" solution and those with a more metaphysical bent. This is delightfully documented in "When Prophecy Fails". 

The latter group is much more tenacious, while individuals in the former are more likely to give up in the face of the abject lack of real evidence.

I suggest that perhaps the composition of MUFON has degenerated towards its logical conclusion. The new TV show is an accurate reflection of the kind of thinking amongst the members.

Here's an upcoming MUFON meeting as an example (thanks to Robert Sheaffer):

Kewaunee Lapseritis, AS, BA, MS, is a Holistic Health Consultant, Master Herbalist and Master Dowser with background in anthropology, psychology, conservation, and holistic health. As a world authority on the Bigfoot/Sasquatch phenomenon, he has meticulously researched the subject for the last 55 years. Mr. Lapseritis is both a Sasquatch and an ET “contactee.” He was first contacted telepathically in 1979, by both a Sasquatch and an ET simultaneously, which was the shock of his life! This changed him & led him to develop psychic abilities overnight, which triggered a spiritual transformation.
Kewaunee will be speaking about his in-depth encounters and how both ETs and the Sasquatch people, who have helped him numerous times with health issues, connecting with other contactees, and even saved his life more than once. He will discuss what these sentient beings are trying to tell us about ourselves & the planet. He will discuss “portals” that are used by both ETs and the hairy-folks. Plus, why monster hunters are never successful in catching a Sasquatch or obtaining an undisputed photograph of one.

Was there ever a time when such a meeting would have seemed too idiotic for MUFON?

Lance

[Jack Brewer]

Orlando MUFON, Kathleen Marden ~ "Unknown"­­ UFOs and Alien abductions are REAL!

The above would be the title and contents of an email circulating from Florida MUFON. I last received it yesterday, promoting Marden's event scheduled for today, March 15.

The problems should be apparent of (what should be) the obvious contradictions in such activities conducted by a purported scientific research organization. If not, don't feel too bad, as it seems MUFON leadership doesn't care to identify and act on such contradictions, either.

Regards,

Jack Brewer

The UFO Trail 

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From: Lance Moody <mechan...@gmail.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

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[William Treurniet]

I confess I'm puzzled by this comment. I don't see the "obvious contradiction" in the title of the email. Maybe it is supposed to be the juxtaposition of "unknown UFOS" and "abductions are real". But I see no logical contradiction in a real abduction where the perpetrators are unknown. Or maybe the intention was to imply that the subject of UFOs and abductions should not be addressed by scientific research.

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[William Treurniet]

Although not explicitly stated, I think the intention of this post was to impugn the validity of the "metaphysical" approach in the study of UFOs. This, in spite of the admission that the "nuts and bolts" people have given up "in the face of the abject lack of real evidence" (read physical evidence).

There is plenty of evidence that some people take seriously, but these are apparently not "real" scientists.  The majority of the latter don't know what to do when the evidence is not "nuts and bolts". Mostly this is because people themselves are the measuring instruments, and this is anathema to materialistic investigators who place artificial limits on the scientific method.

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[Lance Moody]

William, 

Do you mind naming one useful insight given to us by the metaphysical approach to UFO's?

Thanks,

Lance

[Jack Brewer]

The contradiction, Mr. Treurniet, is that an org, MUFON, purporting to conduct scientific research, promotes alien abductions - or anything at all, for that matter - as attributable to aliens, when aliens have not been scientifically demonstrated to exist. In all caps, no less.

Anyone is entitled to conduct investigations, conduct activities and believe as they choose. They are not entitled, however, to call to present their activities as science without being subject to challenge and accountability. 

Jack

---

From: William Treurniet <wtreu...@gmail.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 1:24 PM

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ufo-collective/53248CB6.2020805%40gmail.com.

[Ray Dickenson]

From: Jack Brewer
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:22 PM

> The contradiction, Mr. Treurniet, is that an org, MUFON, purporting to conduct
> scientific research, promotes alien abductions - or anything at all, for that
> matter - as attributable to aliens, when aliens have not been scientifically
> demonstrated to exist. In all caps, no less.
> Anyone is entitled to conduct investigations, conduct activities and believe
> as they choose. They are not entitled, however, to call to present their
> activities as science without being subject to challenge and accountability.

> From: William Treurniet <wtreu...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 1:24 PM
>> I confess I'm puzzled by this comment. I don't see the "obvious
>> contradiction" in the title of the email. Maybe it is supposed to be the
>> juxtaposition of "unknown UFOS" and "abductions are real". But I see no
>> logical contradiction in a real abduction where the perpetrators are unknown.
>> Or maybe the intention was to imply that the subject of UFOs and abductions
>> should not be addressed by scientific research.

Not quite true Jack.

If you clearly state your axioms and postulates, then all steps of logic from
thereon can be called `science'. Which is why you can see articles on the
`science' of Star Trek, or Sword & Sorcery novels (or any other genre).

See the axioms of Euclid, on which was based all Geometry and much of
mathematics - http://www.sfu.ca/~swartz/euclid.htm

The axioms (or postulates) may either be thought of as so self-evident that
proof is not needed, or merely suggested as starting points for theoretical
discussion.

Ray D

PS I have criticisms of both camps in this debate, since members of both are
inclined to make sweeping generalizations and assertions to "prove" their stance
is correct - i.e. i) claiming that only physical (gov't approved) evidence is
acceptable (sceptics and (to a lesser-extent) ETHers), and ii) accepting all
`spooky' stuff regardless of background and provenance (some metaphysicalists) -
RD

[William Treurniet]

Well, for starters, there are the many reported visual sightings
of variable quality. These are typically considered as anecdotal
and not scientific evidence because they are not measured by a
scientific instrument intervening between the object and the
eyeball. Any odd behaviour or other properties exhibited by the
UFO from which inferences can be drawn, are typically not pursued
because the reports are subjective, hence unreliable. The
question of any inherent unreliability in the data should be
treated as variance and compensated for by averaging over
multiple observations.

The upcoming MUFON meeting that you mentioned concerns someone
who is called a Master Dowser, among other things, and who has
communicated telepathically with ETs and Sasquatch, and has
knowledge of "portals" used by such entities. Dowsing has been
investigated experimentally (e.g.,
http://www.nilsolof.se/dowsing.htm) and should not be ridiculed
out of hand. Telepathic communication has been reported by many
people who are often considered delusional for doing so, but
there is empirical and anecdotal (subjective) evidence that such
communication occurs. The possible existence of portals is
consistent with cosmologies where our 3D reality is embedded in
higher dimensions. Such theories give us more freedom to create
and possibly test models for explaining anomalous properties of
UFOs. It is short-sighted to denigrate MUFON for being interested
in these subjects when the organization exists to investigate
phenomena that appear to be beyond explanation by our accepted
science.

I can also refer you to an article describing the science behind
ET craft propulsion. This information was obtained via a medium
who channels the ETs involved. It is Chapter 12 in the free book
at http://www.treurniet.ca/zetacom/A_Primer_of_the_Zeta_Race.pdf.
After considerable communication with these ETs, I have
confidence that the information comes from them. It is internally
consistent and technically advanced, and also consistent with
what people have seen. But even for those who think it is
fiction, the book may open the mind to a novel cosmology which
might help to solve the puzzle.

William

[Jack Brewer]

I continue to hold my initial stance that promoting alien abduction as "REAL" is both non-scientific and sensationalism. I assert that to view it otherwise requires special pleading and at a great deal of loss of practicality.

I would agree, Mr. Dickenson, that opposite ends of extreme perspectives could often be improved. 'Either/or', 'black and white' thinking is seldom desirable.

While MUFON members at times present constructive additions to ufology, I would find it extremely counterproductive to launch into a discussion that spirals off on tangents that lose sight of the initial point: the organization claims to conduct scientific study, yet often resorts to the promotion of entirely unsubstantiated material (and those who peddle it). 

Regards,

Jack

---

From: Ray Dickenson <r.dic...@virgin.net>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 4:00 PM

Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

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[Lance Moody]

@william

Thanks for the reply. I see where you are coming from and no further conventional discussion is necessary. Feel free to communicate via telepathy through Bigfoot, however.

Lance

[Dave Haith]

Lance, if somebody attempts to explain their thoughts to you, but it is beyond your limited conjecture or imagination, then  surely there is no need to respond with sarcastic ridicule?

Take his arguments apart with sensible discussion by all means but your reply says more about you than the subject in hand.

 

Dave Haith

 

From: Lance Moody

Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:34 AM

To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

 

@william

Thanks for the reply. I see where you are coming from and no further conventional discussion is necessary. Feel free to communicate via telepathy through Bigfoot, however. 

Lance

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[Lance Moody]

Dave, when a dismissal of the psychic bigfoot/ET dowsing connection requires more than a horse laugh, I'll remember your advice. I doubt that things have sunk to that level just yet.

Lance

[Ray Dickenson]

From: Lance Moody
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 1:17 AM

> Dave, when a dismissal of the psychic bigfoot/ET dowsing connection requires
> more than a horse laugh, I'll remember your advice. I doubt that things have
> sunk to that level just yet.

Careful Dave,
Categorization is a useful tool - when used after the analysis phase of a
scientific investigation.
However, folk who've gotten opinionated (by the apparent efficiency of
categorization) will often mistakenly categorize at the initial phase of data
gathering. As a result they might declare `That's impossible / a hoax!' before
analysis of data.
Such fatal `pre-judging' is a typical weakness of older, more dogmatic
politicians, police, judges and scientists -
see Clarke's First Law.

Cheers
Ray D

[Dave Haith]

I think Ray meant to write ‘Careful Lance’

Dave Haith

 

From: Ray Dickenson

Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 1:32 AM

To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

 

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[Eleanor White]

Date sent: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 14:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Brewer <brewe...@rocketmail.com>
Send reply to: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

To: "ufo-col...@googlegroups.com" <ufo-col...@googlegroups.com>

> While MUFON members at times present constructive additions to
> ufology, I would find it extremely counterproductive to launch into
> a discussion that spirals off on tangents that lose sight of the
> initial point: the organization claims to conduct scientific study,
> yet often resorts to the promotion of entirely unsubstantiated
> material (and those who peddle it). 

I suggest that if scientific study of the many
constantly repeating "paranormal-class" events
were to be done, instead of dismissing such
events, then there would eventually be less
unsubstantiated material around to cause
headaches.

Such work would very likely benefit UFOlogy
immensely.

Eleanor White

[Ray Dickenson]

From: Eleanor White
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 6:50 PM

> Date sent: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 14:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jack Brewer <brewe...@rocketmail.com>

>> While MUFON members at times present constructive additions to ufology, I
>> would find it extremely counterproductive to launch into a discussion that
>> spirals off on tangents that lose sight of the initial point: the
>> organization claims to conduct scientific study, yet often resorts to the
>> promotion of entirely unsubstantiated material (and those who peddle it).

> I suggest that if scientific study of the many constantly repeating
> "paranormal-class" events were to be done, instead of dismissing such events,
> then there would eventually be less unsubstantiated material around to cause
> headaches.
> Such work would very likely benefit UFOlogy immensely.
> Eleanor White

Fully agree Eleanor. To repeat (apparently that's always necessary), the primary
stage of investigation is collection of _all_ data, without judgements. Only at
the third stage, after data collection and statistical sorting, should one use
qualitative and ontological analysis to grade the data.

Anything else falls into the various traps of personal biases, ignorances and
other foolishness.
Cheers
Ray D

[Ray Dickenson]

From: Eleanor White
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 6:50 PM

> I suggest that if scientific study of the many constantly repeating
> "paranormal-class" events were to be done, instead of dismissing such events,
> then there would eventually be less
unsubstantiated material around to cause headaches.
> Such work would very likely benefit UFOlogy immensely.

A propos `realism' and the `paranormal' - Robert Anton Wilson (in Cosmic
Trigger) was considering quantum alternatives, and, discussing John Keel's
suspicions that the `tricksters' are malevolent, added:
"In terms of the multi-universe model, however, the entities could be totally
honest. All of their predictions came true, in one universe or another. Keel
just happens to be in one of the universes at a tangent to theirs, where only
part of the prophecies came true.
Interestingly, Dr. Vallee has found a similar pattern of prophecies partially
succeeding and partially failing among many alleged Contactees. If locality
fails, and faster-than-light information really exists, we are in a Jung-Pauli
universe in which synchronicity is at least as important as linear causality.
And, if locality fails, and some advanced races are using superluminal
information as casually as we use electricity, some of it must intersect this
planet occasionally, although most of it is not on wavelengths usually picked up
by us. This is Dr. John Lilly's "Network."
It seems, in short, that there is nothing in Part One of this book [i.e. lots of
"paranormal" stuff], however incredible to the ordinary reader, which cannot be
accounted for within the possibilities of the growing edge of quantum theory."

I don't think anything much has changed since then.

Cheers
Ray D

[Jack Brewer]

"ET – HUMAN HYBRIDS:  THEY ARE REAL & THEY ARE HERE"

The above proclamation was copied and pasted from the top of an Orange County MUFON email distributed on several occasions leading up to the March 20, 2013 appearance of Barbara Lamb. The email went on to explain that hypnotist Lamb had discovered many of her clients to have unwittingly contributed to the creation of ET-human hybrid beings. Some of those clients, it was claimed, "have discovered that they themselves _are_ hybrid beings, with a certain portion of ET genes."  [emphasis theirs]

The promotional email continued, "She will also show photos of human-looking hybrids who live here among us on earth, some of whom Barbara knows personally."

I subsequently wrote a short article, posted in April of 2013, focusing on the Orange County MUFON email and purported circumstances, and in preparation Lamb was contacted for comment. I asked what justification she could present for such extraordinary claims, as it would certainly seem that she and her colleagues would be extremely eager to get at and publish such readily available opportunities to examine blood composition, DNA and similar physical circumstances of those purported to possess "a certain portion of ET genes." 

Lamb failed to directly address the related questions during an email exchange, and when further urged to do so she sent no more replies. To date she has never produced what would of course be the absolutely extraordinary data.

I also attempted to contact MUFON's Jan Harzan for comment, as he was not only in a role of MUFON leadership but I interpreted him to be responsible for Southern California operations as well as particularly familiar with the Orange County chapter. Multiple emails were sent inquiring why an organization purporting to be dedicated to scientific study would promote and provide a venue for such fantastic yet unsubstantiated claims. No replies were received from Harzan.

The full April article may be viewed at:

http://tinyurl.com/no8lotr

People are entitled to believe whatever they choose. They are not entitled, however, to misrepresent nonscientific activities as scientific study, as being repeatedly perpetrated by MUFON.

It would indeed be helpful if the collective UFO community evolved to decrease its demand for such circumstances, in turn decreasing some's temptation to provide the supply. I personally made a choice to stop financially supporting those who fail to be accountable. 

Regards,

Jack

---

From: Lance Moody <mechan...@gmail.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 11:17 AM

Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

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[Lance Moody]

Jack,

As you see above, some folks think that every ridiculous claim must be treated as data and not judged. That UFO "research" is still precisely where it was in 1947 should surprise no one. Note actual defenders of psychic UFO big feet above with almost no one bothering to speak up against such nonsense.

Lance

[William Treurniet]

Lance, I think one should earn the right to "speak up against
such nonsense". Maybe you could point to what you have done that
helps us understand what UFOs are all about.

[Ray Dickenson]

From: Lance Moody
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 3:04 AM

Lance, you're wrong on both counts.
i) Here's what rational folk are saying: any valid survey of the phenomenon
_must_ feature typical percentages of hoaxes, gov't and corporate deceptions and
misinformation plus another typical percentage (medical) of products of
disturbed minds. The residue are `events' which may or may not be `unidentified
flying objects' and/or allied observations. If a biased (or ignorant) person
prematurely excludes any reports before statistical analysis then that survey is
not valid.

ii) Things have changed drastically since 1947: we now know that Govt's
(primarily USA & UK) take UFOs seriously enough to dedicate large groups of
agents (and lots of cash) to secret investigations of them, and also to creating
much noise and misinformation (mostly debunking misinformation) around the
subject [see Richard Dolan's presentation of bona-fide Gov't documents].

Above all we now know there are large objects navigating to and fro Earth's
atmosphere [see NASA footages from Martyn Stubbs] and that these objects have
speeds and manoeuvrability way beyond our own capabilities. Also, that their
reaction timings strongly imply sentience for the entire objects as entities -
i.e. not merely for any discrete pilots or other occupants.

Of course any biased (or ignorant) person could simply deny the facts listed
above.

Cheers
Ray D

[Jack Brewer]

Lance,

I empathize. You make reasonable points, in my opinion, and I have long appreciated your contributions to discussions.

I also empathize to certain extents with those who offer personal testimonies, as I categorize such info a bit differently than assertions presented by researchers. One way or the other, though, we can at best only suspend judgment on the vast amount of "data" put forth. It is also unreasonable for some to expect others to accept their assertions without question, when such assertions are perpetually lacking verifiable conclusive evidence.

Such discussion often bring to mind courtroom antics, in that any given demonstration of factual points, i.e., MUFON pseudoscience and appropriate definitions of such terms as scientific study and standards of evidence, can be argued and diluted to oblivion with enough misdirection and cross examination.

Jack

---

From: Lance Moody <mechan...@gmail.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 11:04 PM

Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

Jack,

As you see above, some folks think that every ridiculous claim must be treated as data and not judged.  That UFO "research" is still precisely where it was in 1947 should surprise no one.  Note actual defenders of psychic UFO big feet above with almost no one bothering to speak up against such nonsense.

Lance

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[Jack Brewer]

Hello Collective:

Some might find my latest blog post of interest, 'MUFON, GEIPAN and Transparency'. Explored are issues related to the progression and status of the collaboration of MUFON and GEIPAN as reported and represented by MUFON. Also considered are standards of transparency among 501(c)3 organizations such as MUFON and as recognized throughout the nonprofit industry. Readers might also find the discussion linked in the comments of interest, which contains statements made at the France-based online forum, 'UFO Scepticisme'.

The blog post:

The UFO Trail: MUFON, GEIPAN and Transparency 

Regards,

Jack Brewer

The UFO Trail

---

From: Jack Brewer <brewe...@rocketmail.com>
To: "ufo-col...@googlegroups.com" <ufo-col...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 4:26 PM

Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

Lance,

I empathize. You make reasonable points, in my opinion, and I have long appreciated your contributions to discussions.

I also empathize to certain extents with those who offer personal testimonies, as I categorize such info a bit differently than assertions presented by researchers. One way or the other, though, we can at best only suspend judgment on the vast amount of "data" put forth. It is also unreasonable for some to expect others to accept their assertions without question, when such assertions are perpetually lacking verifiable conclusive evidence.

Such discussion often bring to mind courtroom antics, in that any given demonstration of factual points, i.e., MUFON pseudoscience and appropriate definitions of such terms as scientific study and standards of evidence, can be argued and diluted to oblivion with enough misdirection and cross examination.

Jack

---

From: Lance Moody <mechan...@gmail.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] MUFON ALERT

Jack,

As you see above, some folks think that every ridiculous claim must be treated as data and not judged.  That UFO "research" is still precisely where it was in 1947 should surprise no one.  Note actual defenders of psychic UFO big feet above with almost no one bothering to speak up against such nonsense.

Lance

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[guyx]

List,

If indeed there are hybrids among us, it's a simple matter to determine.  Said hybrids ought to come forward and have a swab taken from the inside cheek.  If there is any odd DNA upon testing it will show up rather easily.  Further, testing living members of the same family will demonstrate any divergence of their DNA assuming there has been epigenetic tampering in the recent past, or an influx of off-planet DNA.

[Jack Brewer]

Hi, guyx,

Thanks for your email. I appreciate your point.

Hear that silence? I'd confidently say the lack of responses to your message indicate the lack of objective inquiry and absence of healthy skepticism inherent to the UFO community. They don't want to know the hybrid hypothesis is completely unsupported, and, even more questionably, they don't want to challenge those who keep incorrectly asserting otherwise.

Regards,

Jack Brewer

The UFO Trail

---

From: guyx <c4f...@gmail.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:43 PM
Subject: [UFO-Collective] Re: MUFON ALERT

List,

If indeed there are hybrids among us, it's a simple matter to determine.  Said hybrids ought to come forward and have a swab taken from the inside cheek.  If there is any odd DNA upon testing it will show up rather easily.  Further, testing living members of the same family will demonstrate any divergence of their DNA assuming there has been epigenetic tampering in the recent past, or an influx of off-planet DNA.

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[Mendoza]

Jack Brewer wrote:

even more questionably, they don't want to

challenge those who keep incorrectly asserting

otherwise.

Jack, that is probably true of the so-called "UFO community" 

(which is about as communal and neighbourly as a bagful of 

angry badgers, and not a place I myself would wish to buy a 

a bungalow), but it's not true of everyone interested in this 

subject. The "not everyone" I have in mind have simply got bored 

with endlessly pointing out the obvious to that "community" 

and with debating crazy hypotheticals with them. We mutter 

among ourselves, or deal with the problem by looking at it 

from other angles than the boilerplate pro and con.

Just a thought—

best

Peter B

_______________________________

FireCrest International Limited

PUBLISHERS & REPUBLISHERS

OF REMARKABLE ORIGINAL WRITING

www.firecrest-international.com

OFFICE HOURS

2:00pm—10:00pm GMT/BST

_______________________________

[Jack Brewer]

Hi Mr. B,

I wouldn't argue with that. I've managed to find my way into a few of the "not everyone" circles myself - fortunately.

We can look over a list of speakers at any given conference, and find any number of such speakers to be incorrectly claiming to conduct scientific research. In some circumstances, we can observe the organization itself to credulously claim to be dedicated to scientific investigation, yet enables the marketing of the hybrid myth in the context of reality, flu lights as effective and similar such insults to intelligence:

The UFO Trail: MUFON, Science and Deception, Part Two

To what extents do you think we have responsibilities to voice our opposition to such circumstances? Are these simply matters of if we don't like the product, don't attend the events, or does it carry greater implications than that? Do we have responsibilities in accepting or rejecting the quality of circumstances presented as scientific research, and, if so, to what end?

No right or wrong answers, sir, just interested in your opinions.

Thanks in advance,

Jack

---

From: Mendoza <hors...@onetel.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] Re: MUFON ALERT

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[Mendoza]

Yo, Jack [sorry, couldn't resist]

I read your link and I admire your persistence, clarity and 

dedication in pursuing MUFON and the likes of Barbara 

Lamb. I love her costume. What looks like a cardinal in the 

general area of her right bazooma seems to me to be telling. 

You may quote me on that.

Neow, I shall repeat myself. I think the problem with 

orthodox or mainstream debunkery—useful, often enter-

taining, usually informative as it is—is that it takes the 

fruitloop circuit on its own terms. Your obvious example 

is the way the MUFONites (it is the example at hand: our 

old friend Stan Friedman would stand just as well as an 

instance) insist they are being "scientific" when in fact 

they're not. To deploy an old cowpoke expression, their 

science isn't worth a piss in a boot. It seems to me that one 

has various choices, confronted with this state of affairs. 

One is to keep hacking away at that pretension, and all 

power, in my view, to the elbows of those who do. But 

speaking of pissing, I think debunkers are doing that into 

the wind—and my old dad RIP, who sailed before the mast 

in square-riggers, told me that no one has the power to pee 

against the wind until he's (yes, he's) tacked round Cape 

Horn under canvas. He did that four times & in all the years 

we sailed together I never saw him take the risk of proving 

the old adage wrong. No fool he. Trust an old salt's actions 

more than his legends.

Another approach is to observe the "scientific" pretension, 

and examine & analyse why this fake science is so appealing. 

And as it's so appealing, enquire as to why. And go on from 

there. The debunking, surely, can be a very useful & powerful 

part of that analysis. But debunkery per se I fear is a cul de sac, 

a dead end, fun as it is. (I said I'd repeat myself.)

As things stand, I see mainstream ufology as represented by 

the likes of MUFON being absorbed by New Age thinking. 

This isn't surprising, is it? A factoid at the back of my mind 

says that MUFON at its height boasted no more than 5000 

members, out of a total US population of (maybe) 200 million. 

That's a smaller proportion of the population than certain parties 

would like us to believe have been abducted by aliens. Doesn't 

that suggest that the effort expended on sapping MUFON's 

chicanery is out of proportion to any deleterious effects their 

kind of crap represents—if it goes no further than that? Which 

is not to say that insisting on the nastiness of the Emma Woods 

affair is not a fine thing, or that Michael Swords' response(s) 

to your & others' efforts in that respect were not mealy-mouthed 

& weaselish & an excellent example of ufological poltroonery. 

Yes, I think this stuff needs to be done.

I also think it needs to widen its imaginative horizons. Ufology 

was never 'scientific', because its proponents have never under-

stood what science actually is, how it works, or what it really 

does. And—should you ask me, I would say—ufology shouldn't 

be paid the false compliment of being treated as even approaching 

the condition of science. It's better taken to bits by taking it on from  

from another angle. (O my God, sir, we're surrounded!—Great! 

That means we can counter-attack from any direction we please!)

As I said, I would repeat myself.

  

best wishes

Under My Seal This Day

Peter B

his mark

[Jack Brewer]

Thank you, Peter B, for your time and attention in composing your insightful and entertaining comments. They are appreciated.

Jack

---

From: Mendoza <hors...@onetel.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 11:10 PM

Subject: [UFO-Collective] Re: MUFON ALERT

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[KRand...@aol.com]

Good day, All -

 

I fear that this is going to do no good. About two decades ago, Russ Estes, Bill Cone, and I wrote

a book, The Abduction Enigma, in which we took a serious look at the abduction phenomenon. We

tried to make it positive, meaning, that we identified the problems in the research, the over use of

hypnotic regression, the lack of scientific protocols during that research, and an appalling lack of

independent, peer reviewed evidence.

 

Knowing that half the problem is merely identifying what it is, we also attempted to suggest ways

that evidence could be gathered. We were vilified as anti-abduction propagandists, our methodology

was questioned and we were told our sample was too small to draw scientific conclusions (ignoring

that fact that one of Budd Hopkins' samples was merely nine people). The abduction community,

researchers and experiencers were too busy attempting to rebut our information that they didn't

bother to look at it in depth. They are not interested in finding the truth but in validating their own

belief structure.

 

However, we had hoped that the criticisms we made would find their way into the research protocols

and that the investigation would advance. Instead, here we are more than a decade and a half after

the publication of the book, and nothing has changed. The same research methods that failed in the

twentieth century are being used today. Abduction researchers will not accept the idea that

sleep paralysis does explain some abductions (mention this and the retort is always, "Some of

the abductees were wide awake when it happened.") Even when it is clear that sleep paralysis

explains a specific case they feel the need to argue.

 

We noticed some abnormalities in the abduction population, but no one wanted to investigate.

The least controversial of these seems to be an abnormal number of left-handed people reporting

abduction. That means they are over represented based on their numbers in the population. We

wondered if there were other such statistical abnormalities, but as far as I know, no one has

ever explored that.

 

The point is this: I don't believe that anything will change because the people involved do not want

real answers, they want their belief structures validated. They don't want research, they want to

be included in some group. Contrary to stated opinion, this is a group that some wish to join. It

is not going to change and it really doesn't matter what we do. Twenty years from now we'll be

having the same discussion.

 

Kevin

 

In a message dated 6/23/2014 6:10:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, brewe...@rocketmail.com writes:

Hi Mr. B,

I wouldn't argue with that. I've managed to find my way into a few of the "not everyone" circles myself - fortunately.

We can look over a list of speakers at any given conference, and find any number of such speakers to be incorrectly claiming to conduct scientific research. In some circumstances, we can observe the organization itself to credulously claim to be dedicated to scientific investigation, yet enables the marketing of the hybrid myth in the context of reality, flu lights as effective and similar such insults to intelligence:

The UFO Trail: MUFON, Science and Deception, Part Two

To what extents do you think we have responsibilities to voice our opposition to such circumstances? Are these simply matters of if we don't like the product, don't attend the events, or does it carry greater implications than that? Do we have responsibilities in accepting or rejecting the quality of circumstances presented as scientific research, and, if so, to what end?

No right or wrong answers, sir, just interested in your opinions.

Thanks in advance,

Jack

---

From: Mendoza <hors...@onetel.com>
To: ufo-col...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [UFO-Collective] Re: MUFON ALERT

Jack Brewer wrote:

even more questionably, they don't want to

challenge those who keep incorrectly asserting

otherwise.

Jack, that is probably true of the so-called "UFO community" 

(which is about as communal and neighbourly as a bagful of 

angry badgers, and not a place I myself would wish to buy a 

a bungalow), but it's not true of everyone interested in this 

subject. The "not everyone" I have in mind have simply got bored 

with endlessly pointing out the obvious to that "community" 

and with debating crazy hypotheticals with them. We mutter 

among ourselves, or deal with the problem by looking at it 

from other angles than the boilerplate pro and con.

Just a thought—

best

Peter B

_______________________________

FireCrest International Limited

PUBLISHERS & REPUBLISHERS

OF REMARKABLE ORIGINAL WRITING

www.firecrest-international.com

OFFICE HOURS

2:00pm—10:00pm GMT/BST

_______________________________

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