US v. EU

[Ken Roberts]

Some notes on using Trydent from across the pond.

VAT - The US does not have VAT numbers for tax purposes - they are specified as SSN (sole-proprietorship) or EIN/TIN (tax identifier numbers). EIN/TIN numbers are typically used for parties (customers) that are tax-exempt so do not get charged sales tax when a sale is closed.

Barcodes - The US still uses UPC-A/E codes for barcodes. The simple fix is a UPC-A can be verified using EAN checksum by prepending '0' to the number: i.e., a barcode of 725310130697 (12 digits) by using EAN validation with '0'+'725310130697'. Label of the barcode field as EAN only might be confusing to some users in the U.S.

Non-profit entities - For non-profit companies, a valid IRS 501(c)3 letter must be accompanied. Not normally an issue since a company selling goods/services will still charge sales tax; however, some companies (i.e., a webhosting company) may provide services for free with a valid 501(c)3 letter from the IRS.

This is based on what I've been learning with 3.0, so may not apply with v3.2.

Still learning Tryton, so may add some more changes in the future.

[Cédric Krier]

On 02 Apr 15:00, Ken Roberts wrote:
> Some notes on using Trydent from across the pond.
>
> VAT - The US does not have VAT numbers for tax purposes - they are
> specified as SSN (sole-proprietorship) or EIN/TIN (tax identifier numbers).
> EIN/TIN numbers are typically used for parties (customers) that are
> tax-exempt so do not get charged sales tax when a sale is closed.

Indeed, I think we could try to make this informational part of Tryton
more flexible and less VAT-centric.
I think about a list of identifier type.

> Barcodes - The US still uses UPC-A/E codes for barcodes. The simple fix is
> a UPC-A can be verified using EAN checksum by prepending '0' to the number:
> i.e., a barcode of 725310130697 (12 digits) by using EAN validation with
> '0'+'725310130697'. Label of the barcode field as EAN only might be
> confusing to some users in the U.S.

There is not barcode support in the default Tryton.
But there are plenty python library to generate barcodes and I guess
most of them support UPC-A/E.

> Non-profit entities - For non-profit companies, a valid IRS 501(c)3 letter
> must be accompanied. Not normally an issue since a company selling
> goods/services will still charge sales tax; however, some companies (i.e.,
> a webhosting company) may provide services for free with a valid 501(c)3
> letter from the IRS.

It is a matter of work flow inside the company. Party that provides such
letter must have their tax rule update accordingly.

--
Cédric Krier - B2CK SPRL
Email/Jabber: cedric...@b2ck.com
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

[Ken Roberts]

<snip>

Indeed, I think we could try to make this informational part of Tryton
more flexible and less VAT-centric.
I think about a list of identifier type

For the US, the only ones that I believe Ttryton would be concerned with might be SSN (used for IRS personal income statements), EIN (employer identification number used by employers/businesses), and PTIN ( Preparer Tax Identification Number used by people employed to prepare tax returns).

 

<snip>

 

There is not barcode support in the default Tryton.
But there are plenty python library to generate barcodes and I guess
most of them support UPC-A/E.

Ok - I was probably thinking of OpenERP on this one. Nice to have for products, though, since the majority have barcodes for quick scanning.

<snip non-profit>

It is a matter of work flow inside the company. Party that provides such
letter must have their tax rule update accordingly.

 This was just top-of-the-head and didn't know if there was an EU equivalent. I was thinking more along the lines if Tryton Foundation wanted to use some resources in the U.S. and might benefit from non-profit status here.

[Raimon Esteve]

>> There is not barcode support in the default Tryton.
>> But there are plenty python library to generate barcodes and I guess
>> most of them support UPC-A/E.
>>
> Ok - I was probably thinking of OpenERP on this one. Nice to have for
> products, though, since the majority have barcodes for quick scanning.

Available in extra modules (not from hg.tryton.org)

[Sergi Almacellas Abellana]

El 03/04/14 18:21, Ken Roberts ha escrit:

<snip>
Indeed, I think we could try to make this informational part of Tryton
more flexible and less VAT-centric.
I think about a list of identifier type

For the US, the only ones that I believe Ttryton would be concerned with might be SSN (used for IRS personal income statements), EIN (employer identification number used by employers/businesses), and PTIN ( Preparer Tax Identification Number used by people employed to prepare tax returns).

Maybe I'm missing something and it's an stupid question. But excluding EIN (as it's related to company/employee, not directly to party), may one party have more than one identifier type or it will only have only one?

-- 
Sergi Almacellas Abellana
www.koolpi.com
Twitter: @pokoli_srk

[Ken Roberts]

On Thursday, April 3, 2014 10:07:02 AM UTC-7, Sergi Almacellas Abellana wrote:

El 03/04/14 18:21, Ken Roberts ha escrit:

Maybe I'm missing something and it's an stupid question. But excluding EIN (as it's related to company/employee, not directly to party), may one party have more than one identifier type or it will only have only one?

-- 
Sergi Almacellas Abellana
www.koolpi.com
Twitter: @pokoli_srk

Minor clarification according to US IRS page ( http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-(TIN) )

TIN = Taxpayer Identification Number, which will be one of:

- Social Security Number "SSN"

- Employer Identification Number "EIN"

- Individual Taxpayer Identification Number "ITIN"

- Taxpayer Identification Number for Pending U.S. Adoptions "ATIN"

- Preparer Taxpayer Identification Number "PTIN"

Depending on what you are doing will depend on what number is used - however, there will be only 1 number associated with each entity.

1) Personal (individual) will use SSN (individual) number

2) Business (stores, LLC (limited liability company), corporations, non-profit entities, etc.) will use EIN (employer) number.

So, a party will be either doing business as an individual (SSN), or as part of an organization (EIN), but not both.

[Sergi Almacellas Abellana]

El 03/04/14 21:56, Ken Roberts ha escrit:

On Thursday, April 3, 2014 10:07:02 AM UTC-7, Sergi Almacellas Abellana wrote:

El 03/04/14 18:21, Ken Roberts ha escrit:

Maybe I'm missing something and it's an stupid question. But excluding EIN (as it's related to company/employee, not directly to party), may one party have more than one identifier type or it will only have only one?

-- 
Sergi Almacellas Abellana
www.koolpi.com
Twitter: @pokoli_srk

Minor clarification according to US IRS page ( http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-(TIN) )

TIN = Taxpayer Identification Number, which will be one of:

- Social Security Number "SSN"

- Employer Identification Number "EIN"

- Individual Taxpayer Identification Number "ITIN"

- Taxpayer Identification Number for Pending U.S. Adoptions "ATIN"

- Preparer Taxpayer Identification Number "PTIN"

This is not  supported in vatnumber [1] (library that validates vat numbers for tryton) currently, but its implemented on python-stdnum [2], which is reused from vatnumber if validation available. I will encorauge you to add us validation on vatnumber using stdnum implementation, this will be an easy task.

Depending on what you are doing will depend on what number is used - however, there will be only 1 number associated with each entity.

So it's similar to Spain, where you have diferent number types, but one party will have only one.

1) Personal (individual) will use SSN (individual) number

2) Business (stores, LLC (limited liability company), corporations, non-profit entities, etc.) will use EIN (employer) number.

So, a party will be either doing business as an individual (SSN), or as part of an organization (EIN), but not both.

So the current design is still valid for US, as the vat number field can be used to introduce the US numbers,

[1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/vatnumber
[2] https://github.com/arthurdejong/python-stdnum/blob/master/stdnum/us/tin.py

[Ken Roberts]

<snip>

This is not  supported in vatnumber [1] (library that validates vat numbers for tryton) currently, but its implemented on python-stdnum [2], which is reused from vatnumber if validation available. I will encorauge you to add us validation on vatnumber using stdnum implementation, this will be an easy task.

<snip> 

-- 
Sergi Almacellas Abellana
www.koolpi.com
Twitter: @pokoli_srk

Looking at vatnumber validator you listed, the only concern I would see would be getting everyone to prepend 'US' to the TIN/EIN numbers - that will probably be a going concern since most people here will only see either SSN (NNN-NN-NNN) or TIN/EIN (NN-NNNNNNN).

Otherwise, it's relatively easy to add the number checks.

 

[Ken Roberts]

<snip>

Digging a little farther, there also appears to be state tax exempt numbers as well.

For example, California has several numbers designated depending on what type of tax exempt status you have.

So - time for more digging on the different US states and state number verifications.

[Cédric Krier]

On 03 Apr 17:02, Cédric Krier wrote:
> On 02 Apr 15:00, Ken Roberts wrote:
> > Some notes on using Trydent from across the pond.
> >
> > VAT - The US does not have VAT numbers for tax purposes - they are
> > specified as SSN (sole-proprietorship) or EIN/TIN (tax identifier numbers).
> > EIN/TIN numbers are typically used for parties (customers) that are
> > tax-exempt so do not get charged sales tax when a sale is closed.
>
> Indeed, I think we could try to make this informational part of Tryton
> more flexible and less VAT-centric.
> I think about a list of identifier type.

I created an issue for that: https://bugs.tryton.org/issue3869

[Ken Roberts]

<snip>

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tryton/dRiYcJiL1-g

Thread started to keep track of U.S. state number verifications