Re: t-h.o down, but community not so much

[Steffen Hoffmann]

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Am 14.08.2012 21:10, schrieb Steffen Hoffmann:
> Hello,
>
> I call for your response, if there is another repository clone out there
> with a revision higher than my own - 11924.
>
> It might be worth the effort to put the latest available state to
> another place, BitBucket and GitHub have been already thrown into the
> discussion.
> We'll want to serve all of us as good as possible with such an
> intermediate solution, at least until t-h.o is restored.

My bad, the mailing-list is down too, of course. So a cross-post is in
order here, I guess:

Until someone else steps up with an even better plan, there it is for a
start:

https://bitbucket.org/hasienda/t-h.o_shadow

One warning: This is nothing official. Changes build on-top are bound to
be re-based after we have the original SVN repo back. Meanwhile better
use something like Mercurial Queue [1][2] or prepare patches by other means.

Enjoy,

Steffen Hoffmann


[1] http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/MqExtension
[2]
http://oreilly.com/opensource/excerpts/opensource-mercurial/mercurial-queues-reference.html
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[RjOllos]

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 6:34:11 PM UTC-4, hasienda wrote:

My bad, the mailing-list is down too, of course.

Another item for thought ... potentially we should move th-users onto Google Groups in the future? 

[Olemis Lang]

On 8/14/12, Steffen Hoffmann <hof...@web.de> wrote:
>
[...]

>
> Until someone else steps up with an even better plan, there it is for a
> start:
>
> https://bitbucket.org/hasienda/t-h.o_shadow
>
> One warning: This is nothing official.

this is awesome !
thnx !

--
Regards,

Olemis.

Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/
Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/

Featured article:

[Steffen Hoffmann]

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Am 15.08.2012 00:42, schrieb RjOllos:
> Another item for thought ... potentially we should move th-users onto
> Google Groups in the future?

Yes, definitely looking into alternatives.

But I'd value, if we'd not just rush for another group within the Google
domain. I feel uneasy with their privacy policy and already us Trac
mailing-list against my belief, that privacy matters much more than many
care for right now.

Are there other choices? Still I don't advocate moving to alternatives
at all costs, just for being 'not-Google'. It looks like a clever move
to strengthen competition in this area. Maybe it's just me, or not?

Sincerely,

Steffen Hoffmann

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[RjOllos]

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 3:39:50 PM UTC-4, hasienda wrote:

Are there other choices? Still I don't advocate moving to alternatives
at all costs, just for being 'not-Google'. It looks like a clever move
to strengthen competition in this area. Maybe it's just me, or not?

I'm not sure about alternatives. I do think we should prefer mailing lists that don't require login to view. Whenever I try to access a Yahoo group I'm asked to login. I wouldn't have noticed for Google groups since I'm always logged in, but tested just now and it appears that the group is viewable without a login.

[Willmer, Alex (PTS)]

mail.python.org <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo> hosts mailing lists for a number of python related projects . They may be willing to host trac-hacks also. Access to the archive can be public or member only.

 

I can make enquiries if you’d like.

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[RjOllos]

On Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:47:34 AM UTC-4, al.wi...@logica.com wrote:

mail.python.org <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo> hosts mailing lists for a number of python related projects . They may be willing to host trac-hacks also. Access to the archive can be public or member only. 

I can make enquiries if you’d like.

Yeah, that sounds worth looking into. The current th-users is a mailman list. It would be nice if we didn't have to run mailman ourselves, and have it tied to the server that server that host trac-hacks. 

[Steffen Hoffmann]

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Am 16.08.2012 16:56, schrieb RjOllos:
>
>
> On Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:47:34 AM UTC-4, al.wi...@logica.com wrote:
>
> mail.python.org <http://mail.python.org>

> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo

> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>> hosts mailing lists for a
> number of python related projects . They may be willing to host
> trac-hacks also. Access to the archive can be public or member only.
>

> I can make enquiries if you�d like.

>
>
> Yeah, that sounds worth looking into. The current th-users is a mailman
> list. It would be nice if we didn't have to run mailman ourselves, and
> have it tied to the server that server that host trac-hacks.

+1 from me too. I like the idea of server-independence as well. I've
searched a bit on my own, but didn't find that. Nice idea, and since
they run the same software as the currently down list it might be
possible to move the archives to the new location too.

I'm very much for starting this ASAP, because this could already fly
before we have t-h.o restored.

Anyone opposing that move here? I'd love to hear critical arguments now,
not afterwards. :-)

Cheers,

Steffen Hoffmann

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[osimons]

On 16 Aug, 18:09, Steffen Hoffmann <hoff...@web.de> wrote:
> Am 16.08.2012 16:56, schrieb RjOllos:
> > On Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:47:34 AM UTC-4, al.wi...@logica.com wrote:
>
> >     mail.python.org <http://mail.python.org>
> >     <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo
> >     <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>> hosts mailing lists for a
> >     number of python related projects . They may be willing to host
> >     trac-hacks also. Access to the archive can be public or member only.
>

> >     I can make enquiries if you d like.

>
> > Yeah, that sounds worth looking into. The current th-users is a mailman
> > list. It would be nice if we didn't have to run mailman ourselves, and
> > have it tied to the server that server that host trac-hacks.
>
> +1 from me too. I like the idea of server-independence as well. I've
> searched a bit on my own, but didn't find that. Nice idea, and since
> they run the same software as the currently down list it might be
> possible to move the archives to the new location too.
>
> I'm very much for starting this ASAP, because this could already fly
> before we have t-h.o restored.
>
> Anyone opposing that move here? I'd love to hear critical arguments now,
> not afterwards. :-)

Mike set up the trac-hacks mailing list because of his dislike for
Google Groups. Before that, all plugin user traffic was part of trac-
users group (here) and plugin development was part of trac-dev. With
the relative high degree of interest overlap, and relatively low
traffic for both lists, I don't see why we can't just revert to that.

I'm subscribed at Google Groups, but using "no email" option so that I
can just follow traffic on lists by RSS feeds at leisure and reply via
web if I need to add my opinion. Each to his/her own, and Google
Groups just offers much more flexibility. Anyone in the Trac "mailing
community" will already have cleared the Google Groups hurdle and
singed up at trac-dev and/or trac-users. If needed, adding a trac-
hacks at this same service would be my preference.

I haven't really gotten around to subscribing to the trac-hacks
mailing list myself, so perhaps my opinion as "non-member" don't
count... ;-)


:::simon

https://www.coderesort.com/u/simon/blog

[Steffen Hoffmann]

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Am 16.08.2012 21:07, schrieb osimons:
> With
> the relative high degree of interest overlap, and relatively low
> traffic for both lists, I don't see why we can't just revert to that.

[...]

>
> I haven't really gotten around to subscribing to the trac-hacks
> mailing list myself, so perhaps my opinion as "non-member" don't
> count... ;-)

Just what I wanted to see for considerations. Thanks for that information.

I see your point, only for me it has been the other way round: I
subscribed to th-users some years ago, but only recently I managed to do
the same for this mailing list (just soon enough as it seems now), still
feeling three mailing lists might be too much. And the interest overlap
argument counts too, sure.

Some more arguments, please. Who's next? ;-)

Steffen Hoffmann
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[Willmer, Alex (PTS)]

From http://www.python.org/community/ the correct route to request a python.org mailing list is to email postmaster(at)python.org.

Regards, Alex

PS Apologies for using Outlook

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[Steffen Hoffmann]

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Am 21.08.2012 10:33, schrieb Willmer, Alex (PTS):
>>From http://www.python.org/community/ the correct route to request a python.org mailing list is to email postmaster(at)python.org.
>
> Regards, Alex
>
> PS Apologies for using Outlook

Well, never mind.

Osimons made me think it all over again with his insight and information
about the birth of th-user mailing-list.

I'm still not found for Trac communities use of Google groups, even more
if appropriate alternatives like python.org might be available with not
too much effort.

But I have to admit, that Google offers are intriguing, and if you can
live with their "special" merits, than I guess that you'll find it
comfortable and like their way i.e. saving you a bit of registration
effort for multiple lists compared to alternatives.

I can hardly say, that I can live with their attitude towards personal
information and privacy in general as mentioned before. But nobody else
raise similar concerns her by now, and I doubt, that Michael and me do
matter that much to satisfy the need for a third mailing list next to
trac-dev and trac-users in the long run.

So I'm leaning more towards accepting the current state, and even
towards talking all of us into using only two mailing-list instead of
three even after the resurrection of t-h.o .

Although this is not decided and final by no means. Anyone up for
another good argument? If so, speak up now. I promise to listen, if that
matters.

Steffen Hoffmann
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[RjOllos]

On Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:33:27 PM UTC-7, hasienda wrote:

Although this is not decided and final by no means. Anyone up for
another good argument? If so, speak up now. I promise to listen, if that
matters.

Apart from threads about plugin development that were more appropriate for the trac-users mailing list, the majority of the email that I saw on th-users was for adoption requests. It would be nice to avoid the noise of adoption requests on trac-users, but we don't need a mailing list for that. We can just modify our process to say that the only necessary step for requesting adoption is to open a ticket with the current maintainer as the owner. If the current maintainer ignores that request, then it is unlikely that they'd respond or even check for an email on th-users. 

[Steffen Hoffmann]

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On 15.08.2012 00:34, Steffen Hoffmann wrote:
> Am 14.08.2012 21:10, schrieb Steffen Hoffmann:

[...]

>
> Until someone else steps up with an even better plan, there it is for a
> start:
>
> https://bitbucket.org/hasienda/t-h.o_shadow
>
> One warning: This is nothing official. Changes build on-top are bound to
> be re-based after we have the original SVN repo back.

Luckily we're finally there by now. I noticed the server being online
this evening. According to the status tracking service setup by Ryan
(rjollos) [1] this happened around 1:50 pm UTC today.

The SVN repo seems ok, and Michael (otaku42) confirmed that there was
never an issue with the data anyway. So I deleted the shadow repository
clone from BitBucket.

We'll see, if we can get real Mercurial and Git mirrors for t-h.o later
on in the current process of giving t-h.o a major Trac upgrade and
face-lifting. Here you go.

Sincerely,

Steffen Hoffmann


[1] http://stats.pingdom.com/9hmtun56fv5v/618204
[2] http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/SiteUpgradeProposal

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