[TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5

[Yakov]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to adapt TW5 to certain limited needs while exploring its capabilities and here are several notes/questions:

1. I'd like to take advantage of TW5 encryption. Does it still encrypt only the whole TW or there's a possibility to encrypt single tiddlers?

2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour be implemented in TW5?

3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like {{myClass{text}}} in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes [1]. Will there be some syntax to do this?

4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars. Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).

5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of importance for attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area itself occupies very part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments:
-- move "show preview" to the toolbar
-- hide the "Use wiki text to add formatting, images, and dynamic features" tip to some sort of "info section" which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like the info button in the view mode toggles info)
-- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line (added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway)
-- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third

6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of usage TW in a "database-like" style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core?

Best regards,
Yakov.

[1] http://tiddlywiki.com/#Styles%20and%20Classes%20in%20WikiText
[2] tiddlytools.com/#GridPluginInfo

[Yakov]

PS Ok, one more note:

7. when I add a tag or a field and then press esc (cancel), no prompt like "are you sure that you'd like to abandon the changes" is displayed.

воскресенье, 2 ноября 2014 г., 22:06:14 UTC+3 пользователь Yakov написал:

[Stephan Hradek]

Am Sonntag, 2. November 2014 20:06:14 UTC+1 schrieb Yakov:

Hi guys,

I'm trying to adapt TW5 to certain limited needs while exploring its capabilities and here are several notes/questions:

1. I'd like to take advantage of TW5 encryption. Does it still encrypt only the whole TW or there's a possibility to encrypt single tiddlers?

The Whole - but If I'm not mistaken there is a plugin to encrypt single tiddlers. Use the search function in this group.
 

2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour be implemented in TW5?

I hope not. I like it to be able to select word-wise by double clicking the first word I want to select.

 

3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like {{myClass{text}}} in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes [1]. Will there be some syntax to do this?

What does this do? You can add <span class="myclass">text</span>. You can even create Templates or macros for that.
 

4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars. Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).

Why would it be more convenient? I don't want to see them. It's sufficient for me to be able to grab them from the sidebar's open-tab. I see no use in actually seeing them.
 

5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of importance for attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area itself occupies very part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments:
-- move "show preview" to the toolbar
-- hide the "Use wiki text to add formatting, images, and dynamic features" tip to some sort of "info section" which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like the info button in the view mode toggles info)
-- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line (added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway)
-- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third

I disagree. But you're free to tweak the templates to your likings.
 

6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of usage TW in a "database-like" style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core?

slices - no, except kind of in data dictionary tiddlers
sections, stuff - not that I know ;)
"database-like" / foreach - have you seen the list widget?

7. when I add a tag or a field and then press esc (cancel), no prompt like "are you sure that you'd like to abandon the changes" is displayed.

And that's good!

[Sylvain Naudin]

1. I'd like to take advantage of TW5 encryption. Does it still encrypt only the whole TW or there's a possibility to encrypt single tiddlers?

The Whole - but If I'm not mistaken there is a plugin to encrypt single tiddlers. Use the search function in this group.

Yes there is a plugin from Danielo :

http://braintest.tiddlyspot.com/#:Encrypt-Tiddler

[Yakov]

Thanks, Sylvain.

воскресенье, 2 ноября 2014 г., 22:49:21 UTC+3 пользователь Sylvain Naudin написал:

[Yakov]

 

2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour be implemented in TW5?

I hope not. I like it to be able to select word-wise by double clicking the first word I want to select.

Well, I'm asking about the plans; anyway it's no problem to implement that as an optional feature governed by a param.

 

3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like {{myClass{text}}} in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes [1]. Will there be some syntax to do this?

What does this do? You can add <span class="myclass">text</span>. You can even create Templates or macros for that.
 

I use this heavily with CSS in TWc, the options you propose are too long to write each time (I use them for different semantic highlightning). I've heard about some kind of "definitions" which allow to define new syntaxes like old-school "+++[label]stuff===" for sliders etc, but I don't remember the name of the mechanism.. Can anyone help with that?
 

4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars. Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).

Why would it be more convenient? I don't want to see them. It's sufficient for me to be able to grab them from the sidebar's open-tab. I see no use in actually seeing them.

They are needed for referencing and sharing links. The trick you propose is ok, although it requires more clicks (while with proper keyboard shortcuts permalink method requires only one). After all, one more icon wouldn't hurt, I guess.

 

5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of importance for attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area itself occupies very part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments:
-- move "show preview" to the toolbar
-- hide the "Use wiki text to add formatting, images, and dynamic features" tip to some sort of "info section" which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like the info button in the view mode toggles info)
-- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line (added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway)
-- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third

I disagree. But you're free to tweak the templates to your likings.

Well, if you don't provide arguments, it sounds like you disagree for the sake of disagreement (considering the rest of you response). Back to TWc, Jeremy refused to add some command to EditTemplate (references or jump, if I'm not mistaken) for the sake of simplicity; for now, the EditTemplate is not simple at all and it's much more complicated (or piled, it's better to say) than that of TWc...

 

6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of usage TW in a "database-like" style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core?

slices - no, except kind of in data dictionary tiddlers
sections, stuff - not that I know ;)
"database-like" / foreach - have you seen the list widget?

I haven't explored it fully (may be there's more power behind templates than I know for now); when there's no distinguishing of sub-data, I won't expect that it's possible to build some representation for it. An example of what I mean:

in TWc, I have different sets of tiddlers, for instance
title:
<name of a pupil>
tags:
pupils
text:
|form|7a-1|
|remarks about character|...|
|things to remember|...|
...

and I aggregate values of slices for different pupils into different (interactive) tables. On the other hand, sometimes I open tiddlers of certain pupils to see and analyse different stuff, so I need these to be in the tiddler text (not in the rather hidden fields).

7. when I add a tag or a field and then press esc (cancel), no prompt like "are you sure that you'd like to abandon the changes" is displayed.

And that's good!

My opinion is different because this increases a possibility of unexpected data loss; the behaviour can be made switchable via settings as well.

Best regards,
Yakov.

[Mat]

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote:

4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars. Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).

If you check the checkbox, aren't they shown there permanently?
 

5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity

I suggested a layout redesign (attached below) a while ago and got some positive response to some of it, but not sure what happened after that.

<:-)

[Stephan Hradek]

Am Sonntag, 2. November 2014 23:08:48 UTC+1 schrieb Yakov:

 

I use this heavily with CSS in TWc, the options you propose are too long to write each time

That's why I said: You can create a macro for that. <<myClass "text">> isn't so much more to write. You just have to once create a macro

\define myClass(text) <span class="myClass">$text$</span>

Or a more generic one: <<class "myClass" "text">>

\define class(myclass, text) <span class="$myclass$">$text$</span>
 

(I use them for different semantic highlightning). I've heard about some kind of "definitions" which allow to define new syntaxes like old-school "+++[label]stuff===" for sliders etc, but I don't remember the name of the mechanism.. Can anyone help with that?

rules?
 

They are needed for referencing and sharing links. The trick you propose is ok, although it requires more clicks (while with proper keyboard shortcuts permalink method requires only one). After all, one more icon wouldn't hurt, I guess.

One more icon for your permalinks, one more icon for pining tiddlers, one more icon for... whatever... You see: Every icon is "just one more" and I think there shouldn't be more than three, at most five.

I like the current simplicity and after all: All this can be tweaked so that you have it.
 

 
I disagree. But you're free to tweak the templates to your likings.

Well, if you don't provide arguments, it sounds like you disagree for the sake of disagreement

I disagree because I like the current simplicity and I like the fact that it's not too difficult to tweak almost everything about TW5. I do not think that we should change the current vanilla TW5 which is here for, well, almost 3 years now.
 

(considering the rest of you response).

considering your post, I got the impression that you didn't look too much into TW5 but simply hoped to have an updated TWc. Sorry when I'm doing you wrong.

 

for now, the EditTemplate is not simple at all and it's much more complicated (or piled, it's better to say) than that of TWc...

That's your view. I can't remember too many complains about it in the last 2 years. But let's wait what others think.
 

I haven't explored it fully (may be there's more power behind templates than I know for now); when there's no distinguishing of sub-data, I won't expect that it's possible to build some representation for it. An example of what I mean:

[...]

and I aggregate values of slices for different pupils into different (interactive) tables. On the other hand, sometimes I open tiddlers of certain pupils to see and analyse different stuff, so I need these to be in the tiddler text (not in the rather hidden fields).

Maybe Datatiddlers http://tiddlywiki.com/#DataTiddlers are sufficient? The representation is not as nice as a table, but I think they should give you all the rest.

But you can as well stick to fields if you create an edit template for you pupils. See for example my (a bit outdated) simple "Person DB" on http://tw5magick.tiddlyspot.com/
 

7. when I add a tag or a field and then press esc (cancel), no prompt like "are you sure that you'd like to abandon the changes" is displayed.

And that's good!

My opinion is different because this increases a possibility of unexpected data loss; the behaviour can be made switchable via settings as well.

How much would you loose? 1 word? I think it would be better to add the Return-key here for entering a tag. After all: Esc is usually for leaving something without changing values.

[PMario]

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote:

4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars. Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).

If you open the tiddler (i)nfo button, you can select, which buttons are permanently added to the tiddler toolbar.
Same with the sidebar.

-m

[PMario]

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote:

3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like {{myClass{text}}} in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes [1]. Will there be some syntax to do this?

see: http://tiddlywiki.com/#Styles%20and%20Classes%20in%20WikiText:WikiText%20%5B%5BStyles%20and%20Classes%20in%20WikiText%5D%5D

-m

[PMario]

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote:

2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour be implemented in TW5?

As far as I know, it's not planned. IMO the main reason is, that users expect a browser double click to select a word and not change the view mode.

-m

[PMario]

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote:

5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of importance for attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area itself occupies very part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments:
-- move "show preview" to the toolbar
-- hide the "Use wiki text to add formatting, images, and dynamic features" tip to some sort of "info section" which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like the info button in the view mode toggles info)
-- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line (added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway)
-- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third

see: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/506
and: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/170

There are probably more of them.

-mario

[PMario]

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote:

6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of usage TW in a "database-like" style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core?

The whole TW UI is built with the TW widgets. Especially the listWidget has some "super powers" with special filters for almost everything.
It completely replaces fETplugin. ...

The EditTemlate is pure wikitext. Highly advanced wikitext but mastering it will need some deep diving :)

But if you want to add / remove some elements form PageTemplate / ViewTemplate / EditTemplate you probably just need a special system tag.
So just ask before you try to change the templates. May be there is an easier solution.

-mario

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Yakov

> I'm trying to adapt TW5 to certain limited needs while exploring its capabilities and here are several notes/questions:

Great, I'm glad to hear you're looking at TW5. I'll be interested in your thoughts and feedback.

1. I'd like to take advantage of TW5 encryption. Does it still encrypt only the whole TW or there's a possibility to encrypt single tiddlers?

As you've heard, single tiddler encryption is available via a plugin. It's not something I'm planning for the core in the immediate future because I think I'd like to learn more about the use cases and the desired features/UI.

 

2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour be implemented in TW5?

I don't plan to introduce double click to edit by default, for the reason given by Stephan: it breaks double-clicking to select text. But I would like to include it as an option.

 

3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like {{myClass{text}}} in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes [1]. Will there be some syntax to do this?

The TW5 equivalent is @@.myClass text@@. See:

http://tiddlywiki.com/#Styles%20and%20Classes%20in%20WikiText

The documentation only covers the block mode form, but it also works as inline syntax:

@@.myClass This is some text with a class@@

@@background-color:red;This is some text with a background colour@@

@@width:100px;.myClass This is some text with a class and a width@@

4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars. Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).

I want to keep tiddlywiki.com simple, and so don't intend to have more than three tiddler toolbar buttons shown by default. Hopefully it's easy enough to use the tiddler info panel to access other toolbar buttons. 

5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of importance for attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area itself occupies very part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments:
-- move "show preview" to the toolbar
-- hide the "Use wiki text to add formatting, images, and dynamic features" tip to some sort of "info section" which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like the info button in the view mode toggles info)
-- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line (added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway)
-- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third

As others have noted, there has been a lot of discussion about how best to improve the edit template:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/506

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/170

 

I'm keen to improve it.

6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of usage TW in a "database-like" style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core?

No, there's no support for sections or slices. DataTiddlers are supported which are somewhat similar to slices:

http://tiddlywiki.com/#DataTiddlers

There are many reasons that I've chosen not to support sections as part of the core at the moment. One practical issue is that section parsing is brittle and error prone if done with a simple regexp as in TWC, and expensive if done with a full parse of the tiddler content

The bigger philosophical issue is that TiddlyWiki embodies the idea that the smallest fundamental unit of information is a tiddler. The operations that TiddlyWiki supports are inter-tiddler operations, that combine and link individual, discrete tiddlers. Sections imply an algebra for intra-tiddler operations, potentially duplicating the inter-tiddler operations.

The purest expression of TiddlyWikis philosophy would be to break a tiddler with sections into separate tiddlers, and transclude the sections back together when you need to view them as a single unit.

None of that precludes adding section support, whether in the core or via a plugin.

There are two approaches to consider:

* The TWC-like approach of referring to sections via a text reference (eg title::section). Currently, text references give us a title, and optionally either a field name or an index name (for data tiddlers). The knock-on effects of extending that include a section name would impact an awful lot of core code

* Supporting transcluding a fragment of a tiddler. This would just be an extension to the transclude widget, and feels much more do-able

Best wishes

Jeremy

 

Best regards,
Yakov.

[1] http://tiddlywiki.com/#Styles%20and%20Classes%20in%20WikiText
[2] tiddlytools.com/#GridPluginInfo

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[Tobias Beer]

Hi Jeremy,
 

The purest expression of TiddlyWikis philosophy would be to break a tiddler with sections into separate tiddlers, and transclude the sections back together when you need to view them as a single unit.

Perhaps this can be automated a little more, after all, and merged into a compromise by inventing something like "section tiddlers" which could get...

• automatic titles based on parent + the section title
  
• allow for section ordering using some list field (not sure about section nesting though)

As the chosen approach is slicing a section down to being a tiddler, that means that supporting capabilities are somewhat desireable that help a user to aggregate the now scattered contents, or display such now remote or "hidden contents" (data, fields) in a somewhat editable / templatable viewmode.

Tobias.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tobias

I'm not sure that I fully understand your specific proposals, but I certainly agree that the core should have more features to help people split and aggregate tiddlers.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Jeremy,

 

I'm not sure that I fully understand your specific proposals, but I certainly agree that the core should have more features to help people split and aggregate tiddlers.

Indeed. And, yes, my feedback wasn't an overly specific proposal. :-)

For example, one important usecase in TWc would have been the ability to script something like: list all "Summary" sections of tiddlers tagged X.

Any suggestions on how to model something like that in TW5?

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Tobias Beer]

Ok, although I'd prefer the summary to be visible for each tiddler, Stephan's toc does the basic trick to gather summaries from (hidden) fields.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Jeremy Ruston]

> For example, one important usecase in TWc would have been the ability to script something like: list all "Summary" sections of tiddlers tagged X.

There's no support for sections in TW5. You could use a summary field like this:

<$list filter="[tag[X]sort[title]]">

<$transclude field="summary"/>

</$list>

Best wishes

Jeremy.

[PMario]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:06:45 AM UTC+1, Tobias Beer wrote:

Ok, although I'd prefer the summary to be visible for each tiddler, Stephan's toc does the basic trick to gather summaries from (hidden) fields.

That's the common way at the moment. The core and tw5.com uses this mechanism a lot.

Since fields are 1st class citicens in TW5, the attribute "hidden" imo isn't true anymore.
-m

[Tobias Beer]

Since fields are 1st class citicens in TW5, the attribute "hidden" imo isn't true anymore.

I see what you mean and I guess there sure are ways to expose field contents in the tiddler body when being viewed, e.g...

{{!!fieldname}}

...or conditionally display such via some sort of ViewTemplate customization using the reveal widget, I presume.

Would be nice to see an example of how one could conditionally generate a summary section at the top of all tiddlers tagged X, so that one doesn't have to click twice, skim the fields until one finds there to be a summary section.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Jeremy Ruston]

> Would be nice to see an example of how one could conditionally generate a summary section at the top of all tiddlers tagged X

Create a tiddler tagged $:tags/ViewTemplate containing:

<$list filter="[all[current]tag[X]]">

<$transclude field="summary" mode="block"/>

</$list>

Create a field "list-after" with the value "$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate/tags" to make the summary segment appear immediately after the tags.

Best wishes

Jeremy

[Tobias Beer]

As far as I know, it's not planned. IMO the main reason is, that users expect a browser double click to select a word and not change the view mode.
-m

To me, that's the single most feature used when editing a tw and that's usually what I do in my wikis... I edit them. So, it would be more than welcome to have that option, whereas selecting a word by double-clicking is something I hardly ever do.

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Jeremy, 

Thanks, sounds all plausible. However, it doesn't seem to work. Care to take a look?

http://bit.ly/1ufLV1P

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Danielo Rodríguez]

To me, that's the single most feature used when editing a tw and that's usually what I do in my wikis... I edit them. So, it would be more than welcome to have that option, whereas selecting a word by double-clicking is something I hardly ever do.

I think you are being a little selfish here. You want your feature back, it's ok, but is not te expected behavior for most of the users. Double click for edit was the most anoying feature that TWC has, and I hated it a lot. In my work we use a ticketing system where I edit a lot of information, I promisse, and I hate the double click to edit feautre that some fields has.  What's wrong with clicking on a button?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tobias

Thanks, sounds all plausible. However, it doesn't seem to work. Care to take a look?

Sorry, my typo: the tag is "$:/tags/ViewTemplate", not "$:tags/ViewTemplate".

Best wishes

Jeremy.

 

http://bit.ly/1ufLV1P

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Sylvain Naudin]

Le jeudi 13 novembre 2014 15:30:59 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston a écrit :

Sorry, my typo: the tag is "$:/tags/ViewTemplate", not "$:tags/ViewTemplate".

I've test quickly on tb5 file and I see his text right above :)

Nice use of case.

Sylvain

[Eric Shulman]

In matters of personal workflow, there are clearly different preferences for the double-click behavior... and, despite what "most of the users" may want, that isn't an argument against offering an optional alternative behavior when possible, even if it is only desired by a minority of users.

Rather than arguing about individual use-case preferences, the discussion should be about whether or not the core architecture supports the ability to modify the double-click behavior, either by use of existing configuration features, or by writing a plugin.  Of course, if that kind of customization isn't currently possible, then the discussion should shift to what kind of changes would be needed to allow alternative double-click handling, and the relative cost/benefit of implementing those changes in the core.

Also, just for the record, in TiddlyWiki Classic, the ability to turn OFF the doubleclick-to-edit behavior is VERY simple... in [[ToolbarCommands]], change "+edit" to "edit" in the ViewToolbar slice definition.  Just ONE character to change, and your "hatred" for the "most annoying feature that TWC has" is GONE.

enjoy,

-e

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Danielo,

 

You want your feature back, it's ok, but is not te expected behavior for most of the users.

In a visitor / web context I totally agree; from an editors point of view not so much ...but this distinction concerns more than click-behavior.

 

Double click for edit was the most anoying feature that TWC has, and I hated it a lot.

I can safely say that it took me a little bit to get the hang of it and there has probably been that moment where I thought: *arghh,ok*. ^_^

What's wrong with clicking on a button?

Essentially, lot's of scrolling to the toolbar and then moving the mouse to the right button, rather than a ridiculously simple and fast "click anywhere". But that's just my 5 cents and I can totally understand if you and others others prefer to be spared from it, so I'm not asking for changing the default behavior, just emphasizing a desire for what Jeremy suggested might be an optional feature at some point.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Danielo Rodríguez]

@Eric: You are right in most of you said but... why do I have to deactivate a non-standard function? Is not better to activate it when needed?

In a visitor / web context I totally agree; from an editors point of view not so much ...but this distinction concerns more than click-behavior.

 

 Just give me an example: how many programs that do you use allows double click for editing something? Word? Excel? Notepad? LibreOffice? dokuWiki? facebook? google Drive? How does programs manage double click?

 

Essentially, lot's of scrolling to the toolbar and then moving the mouse to the right button, rather than a ridiculously simple and fast "click anywhere". But that's just my 5 cents and I can totally understand if you and others others prefer to be spared from it, so I'm not asking for changing the default behavior, just emphasizing a desire for what Jeremy suggested might be an optional feature at some point.

I agree with that part, editing large text could be too much scoll but even in this case I would prefer an alternative solucion. Maybe a floating button, visible on-hover, maye a context menu.

[Tobias Beer]

Just give me an example: how many programs that do you use allows double click for editing something? Word? Excel? Notepad? LibreOffice? dokuWiki? facebook? google Drive? How does programs manage double click?

tw2.;-)

You know how many times I have double-clicked or CTR-ENTERed in facebook? :D

 

I agree with that part, editing large text could be too much scoll but even in this case I would prefer an alternative solucion. Maybe a floating button, visible on-hover, maye a context menu.

Yes, those are good ideas as well, perhaps even an "on-hover" toolbar, dynamically reattached to the bottom of a tiddler or floating in a fixed position at the bottom of the story-display so long as we're in the middle of a tiddler going beyond that screen  All that sounds like a lot more work, though.

Best wishes, Tobias.