[TW5] Idea for a Hangouts TiddlyWiki

[RichShumaker]

First this is off the topic I am starting but I wanted to say Thanks to Tobias Beer right up front.

Your help has been invaluable to my fast implementation of TW5 and your site has become invaluable.

I have been watching the past several TiddlyWiki Hangouts after they are over.

While I listen / watch them I feel I should be doing something to help the community.

I love what Mario Pietsch and now Tobias Beer have created for the Hangouts.

I created a TiddlyWiki as a contribution to the community.

It is very new and I have almost nothing it in yet.

I explain what I am trying to create in the TW itself.

Check it out if you get a chance and give me some feedback.

http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html

Thank you all very much for your help you guys ROCK!!!

Rich Shumaker

[Mat]

I love what Mario Pietsch and now Tobias Beer have created for the Hangouts.

I subscribe to your gratitude towards Tobias and Mario. Incredibly generous guys and driving forces in our little community.

And you're right - the hangout recordings contain a lot of valuable stuff so it makes sense to do more with them. If you're up for it linking topics to youtube times, that will be super. If it gets good then just maybe the hangouts space could incorporate your stuff?

Personally A recurring problem in tiddlyverse is the dispersed nature of things - wikis and plugins and stuff are just anywhere and nobody really knows where. And the problem is directly correlated to the number of peopel involved... which is typically just one... which typically means it's abandoned after a while. This is why I advocate more open infrastructures where "anyone" can contribute, even if just a tiny bit of information, and have quality build up accumulatively (We're talking wikis! The were invented for this purpose!!!)

...so how about applying your effort to Danielos TiddlyDrive?! To me it seems like the perfect starter case! It's of interest for everyone, it's gradually "improvable" and there's a weekly reminder automatically (i.e when the hangouts are). Just a thought.

BTW, I think Jeremy recently suggested having a shared google doc open while the hangout is running so people can add notes live. ...as usual, somebody still has to do it, but IF it's done, then maybe there could be an iframe to these documents in wichever TW solution is used. That way one can not only edit when you're actually in the TW but it would be a very accessible way to take data from if you want to create a tiddelr on some topic. Google Docs Writer (or whatever it's called) has somewhat recently added a ToC hyperlink-feature now so it's pretty easy to jump around sections in a document.

<:-)

[RichShumaker]

I will check out TiddlyDrive and see what I can do to help over there.

I agree completely about the Army of One with TW, I have time now but might not next week ect ect.

That is why I am so grateful to Mario for all the work he has done with the Hangouts.

When I listen to and watch the playback of the TW Hangouts my mind pings around and I wanted to map what I was seeing.

I needed to build my idea so people could see what I was seeing.

I need a better process to get the information into TW faster.

Also I want to do a better job with formatting.

I am still very happy with what I was able to create as it represents what I was envisioning.

Having an open Shared Google Doc during the TW would be incredible, better would be sharing a TW ;)

I did not get all the details in my TW Tiddler for Hangout #73 as I was missing some peoples info.

It would be cool with a shared document for people to sign in.(Public Details no emails and phone numbers)

I did my best to find every ones info on the web, it is the reason I was discussing <Name Plates>.in another thread.

Please check out the updated site when you can, http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html

Comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks again everyone for all the help.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

I flipped the style at my page and I am working on a better look and feel for the general notes, more like Mario's ;)

Mario,

I have done a test page with links to YouTube for TW #70.

I have not put it up yet as I wanted to make sure it was okay with you as it is your content.

My plan was to do all the pages with your permission over several days to a week.

I don't know if you and Tobias are planning anything else at the new Hangouts site, http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/ which might make this work unnecessary.

Takes about 10 minutes per page to convert right now but I think it will be faster once I get the process down.

Here is what it looks like for a single line of code

| [[0:00:00 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKDVD6mf9tk&t=00m00s]] | 0:00:00 Intro: frtl: Ed, Eric, Felix, Jeremy, Mario, Matias, Nathan, Tobias, Ton |

I just added a direct timecode link for each of your entries.

Side note to Tobias the Google+ Links on the main page don't seem to be working, they are working on the specific hangout pages.

Tobias and Mario if you would like any of the tiddlers I created on my TW Hangouts Page please feel free to use them.

Thanks again for all your help.

Rich Shumaker

[PMario]

annotations links are posted at: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/7MJnIh_8G6U/cj9EAso9EjwJ
-m

[PMario]

--- sry long post :) ---

Hi Rich,

Interesting topic!
 

I have done a test page with links to YouTube for TW #70.

I have not put it up yet as I wanted to make sure it was okay with you as it is your content.

The hangout space has a license tiddler [1]. So there is no problem, as long as you keep the license for this one tiddler which you used. ...
I'm using a very restrictive license CC-BY-NC-SA [3] by intention at the moment. It's easy to widen the rules, but impossible to narrow them again, once published :)

I do like your hangout 73 tiddler [4] and would like to see your hangout 70 test. So consider this ho70 [7] tiddler to be CC-BY [5], with which you can do anything :)

--- some history ---------------

My annotations at the beginning did have a single purpose: Make the topics searchable for me and give Jeremy a simple "copy paste" possibility to add them to the youtube video description area [6].

This description area has some advantages and some disadvantages.

advantages:
 - the 0:00:00 timecode is automatically converted to a clickable link.
 - you can be sure google finds it.

disadvantages:
 - the amount of text is limited.
 - no external links are allowed. That's why I need to use eg: "pmario (dot) tiddlyspace. com" or similar. 

-----------------------

My plan was to do all the pages with your permission over several days to a week.

I'm thinking about to give the hangouts space a different more open licensing, so it's easier for others to use. ...

But as you may have found out. Writing annotations and your summary takes a hell lot of time.
I usually need from about 60% to 120% of the video length. Sometimes the time is even doubled. So I'm pretty sure, I'd want to keep the NC (non commercial) clause.
So if someone else want's to make money with my work, they'd need to ask!

But this is up to some more discussion :)

--------------

I don't know if you and Tobias are planning anything else at the new Hangouts site, http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/ which might make this work unnecessary.

In my opinion Tobias used the mechanism he knows best to create the hangouts space. He wanted to use his "filtr" plugins for better filtering / overview. That's why he used TS and TWc, because this was the fastest / cheapest way to get it going.

See our github conversation [8]: "TW5 Hangout Notes Wiki — Import From TWc"

Takes about 10 minutes per page to convert right now but I think it will be faster once I get the process down.

That's fast. ... but without your additional text / summaries ?

I didn't know, that this: "t=00m00s" timestamp format works I thought you need to use the xxxx seconds format. ... You always learn something new. ..

-------------------

I don't know if you and Tobias are planning anything else at the new Hangouts site, http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/ which might make this work unnecessary.

I was thinking about the possibility to make every line in the annotations one tiddler. This would enable the full power of TW and would give every topic a unique URL (permalink).
The node.js build mechanism has a so-called "tiddler.multids" format, which imo could be used to create them.

... but that's just brainstorming at the moment and shouldn't hinder you with your great work.

have fun!
mario

[1] http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/#License
[2] ho70: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKDVD6mf9tk
[3] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
[4] http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html#TiddlyWiki%20Hangout%20%2373
[5] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
[6] eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKDVD6mf9tk see description below the video. -> click the "SHOW MORE" button
[7] http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/#HangOut_070
[8] https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1110

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Rich,

Interesting to see you pick this topic up.

Your enthusiasm for TiddlyWiki is invaluable. :)

The intention of that space was really to make it easier for myself to search the notes.

Of course, I wouldn't want to prevent others from enjoying the same.

I very much like the simple, consise timestamped lines Mario produced for the videos,

not just because they keep the filtering simple and provide a consistent look.

My main intention in of the @hangout space really was to have a simple way to see search results in one spot...

not as links to tiddlers but as the actual content I wanted to see.

How to do something like that in TiddlySpace yet needs plenty exploring... and code.

While those enhanced notes attempt to provide more background and details, they are a bit harder to parse algorithmically, although surely not impossible... there could perhaps be some simple regexp type of search using matchfilter from EucaliJ that returns paragraphs of tiddlers tagged "Hangout" containing a given search term.

Together with ContextPlugin from Danielo, that term could even be highlighted.

However, at that moment, the quick solution, not only for making the filtering work, but —- more importantly — to COLLABORATE, was TiddlySpace.

While I would love to have done the same,

I am rather positive that you undererstimate the effort involved in your undertaking. :D

Hence, my satisfaction with that "quickshot".

One quick-win could rather be to use CamelCase text in those current notes so as to create missing topic-links that can then be openened, and actually created as tiddlers if needs be.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Tobias Beer]

Some considerations as to using tables...

1) major: it's much harder to filter table rows if any code / plugin wanted to do so

2) usability: I would not want to have a summary table and then another more detailed section

I'm very much in favor of having all in a flow that I can easily skim through, rather than going up and down.

perhaps having definition lists would be an alternative

;xx:xx:xx short headline

:note 1

:note 2

:note 3

3) minor: the contents are centered, even though it's prose inside

Anyhow, to me, the ability to easily preview all available notes with respect to a given search term is the key (to that exercise I made).

Best wishes, Tobias.

[RichShumaker]

Thanks Mario and Tobias for the favorable review of what I have done.

I agree with Tobias I need to tighten up things and I will explore better formatting, I HATE TABLES, #heheh.

Your review of the work I did is greatly appreciated.

One reason I started with this is that there is a VOLUME of knowledge in the hangouts.

I am okay at TiddlyWiki but I need to learn more to get better.

So why not start with the Seventy Three 2 hour sessions of what I call buttery goodness.

That is almost 150 hours of discussions on Tiddlywiki which is amazing, Great Job Jeremy!!!

Replies to Mario

Interesting topic!
 

I have done a test page with links to YouTube for TW #70.

I have not put it up yet as I wanted to make sure it was okay with you as it is your content.

The hangout space has a license tiddler [1]. So there is no problem, as long as you keep the license for this one tiddler which you used. ...

I'm using a very restrictive license CC-BY-NC-SA [3] by intention at the moment. It's easy to widen the rules, but impossible to narrow them again, once published :)

I do like your hangout 73 tiddler [4] and would like to see your hangout 70 test. So consider this ho70 [7] tiddler to be CC-BY [5], with which you can do anything :)

Reply - I have added the Tiddler and any that I 'Borrow' I will tag with <License>.

Does that meet the requirements as you understand them?

I am 'enhancing'(changing) what you did and you should retain full ownership even with my modifications.

I am also like Tobias as I created something to help me as the Hangouts were too stationary for such a dynamic discussion.

My plan was to do all the pages with your permission over several days to a week.

I'm thinking about to give the hangouts space a different more open licensing, so it's easier for others to use. ... 

But as you may have found out. Writing annotations and your summary takes a hell lot of time.
I usually need from about 60% to 120% of the video length. Sometimes the time is even doubled. So I'm pretty sure, I'd want to keep the NC (non commercial) clause.
So if someone else want's to make money with my work, they'd need to ask!

But this is up to some more discussion :)

Reply - I agree it took me a several hours to get TW #73 done.

I am working on ways to do it faster and in near real time.

I am going to watch the Hangout anyway might as well be productive while I do.

I don't know if you and Tobias are planning anything else at the new Hangouts site, http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/ which might make this work unnecessary.

In my opinion Tobias used the mechanism he knows best to create the hangouts space. He wanted to use his "filtr" plugins for better filtering / overview. That's why he used TS and TWc, because this was the fastest / cheapest way to get it going. 

See our github conversation [8]: "TW5 Hangout Notes Wiki — Import From TWc"

Reply - I need to use TW5 as most of what I learn I am applying other places.

Takes about 10 minutes per page to convert right now but I think it will be faster once I get the process down.

That's fast. ... but without your additional text / summaries ?

Reply - I wish it included text/summaries.  This is just a simple conversion of your date time code you did to allow direct jumps to the video.

So a week or so for direct links.  Then I start the text summaries.

My goal as I said earlier in the post is to get this to real time.

If I reach my goal then I only have 150 hours of video to get through, #heheh

Since you have already completed the Time Logs that will allow me to concentrate on [[Links]]

I use a simple text editor and markup while watching / listening and typing, helps me to type better and learn markups better, win win.

Also if you use Chome you get Time from .5X to 2X and that is amazing for doing this stuff.

Once I complete the Hangout I go back and fill in the [[Links]] that need to be created, welcome to the missing tab.

The hardest thing for me was to get peoples data, I was searching the net for a bit to get stuff, hence the other thread about a standard for us to use between us.

If we had a Standard Tiddler Name Tag and we put it at our sites I could easily drag and drop what you want to be listed as.

I didn't know, that this: "t=00m00s" timestamp format works I thought you need to use the xxxx seconds format. ... You always learn something new. ..

Reply - the major issue is the conversion for me and checking to see the links are correct.

The reason for this is my process is a bit 'messy' right now and I hope to have it more neat and concise shortly.

-------------------

I don't know if you and Tobias are planning anything else at the new Hangouts site, http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/ which might make this work unnecessary.

I was thinking about the possibility to make every line in the annotations one tiddler. This would enable the full power of TW and would give every topic a unique URL (permalink). 
The node.js build mechanism has a so-called "tiddler.multids" format, which imo could be used to create them. 

... but that's just brainstorming at the moment and shouldn't hinder you with your great work. 

Reply - What I have been doing is tagging every tiddler spawned by a TW Hangout with that Hangout #.

If you look at the bottom of my Tiddler you will see a list of all the <Tagged> items from TW #73

I would love every concept to be broken out further as you stated.

So first I will create links to the videos.

Then I will do a bulk conversion, maybe by then we can come up with a way for me to do inline tags to allow automagic tiddler creation.

I know that TW can not do In Tiddler Links.

Tobias - what ideas do you have, other please chime in as well.

The idea is that the tiddler would be more like this

[Marker for New Secton - Could use hidden codes]

##:##:## <Some Kind of Divider> Brief Description

Details [[Tiddler Links]] [[Outside Links]]

More Notes

---End Marker---

[Marker for New Secton]

##:##:## <Some Kind of Divider> Brief Description

Details [[Tiddler Links]] [[Outside Links]]

More Notes

---End Marker---

Repeat 20 times or so per Hangout

It may take me a few tries to get this process 'smooth' so I will probably post once I have a few different options.

I did not like Tables and they made it MUCH harder so I will be avoiding them from now on.

Check out TwHo#70 with time codes links added - http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html

Welcome to the crazy part of the post, if you read this far I hope you like this idea.

If we can figure out how to create a Timecode to Timecode playback from YouTube videos then we could create

TOPIC PLAYLISTS - It would play TW Hangout 4 -33 - 55 - 66 snippets if that is when the topic was discussed.

Thanks again everyone for all your help.

Rich Shumaker

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Rich,

just wanted to say... your meticulousness is admirable.

I am sure it will sharpen your senses like a chef's knife.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[PMario]

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 8:45:59 PM UTC+1, RichShumaker wrote:

Reply - I agree it took me a several hours to get TW #73 done.

I am working on ways to do it faster and in near real time.

I am going to watch the Hangout anyway might as well be productive while I do.

I did switch my youtube player settings to HTML5. There is an option to watch the video with "normal / 150% / 200%" speed. ... 150% is OK for listening. 200% let's you catch the basics, but needs to be stopped from time to time.

Max resolution is 720p. But that's no problem for the hangouts. ... If I need 1080p I switch back :)

https://www.youtube.com/html5

have fun!
mario

[RichShumaker]

I have gotten the 60's done that have transcripts.

The raw data and the Time Code Linked data is both in there in 2 different tiddlers.

I used ''---'' as the dash to break between time code and Items.

This makes breaking it back apart easier.

I still need to do the advanced listen but I will be starting with the newest first.

Next up is TwHo#72

I am going to need to learn to do formatting better as my Tiddler for TwHo#73  was a headache to format.

At least it wasn't tables, #heheh.

How do you sort a Tag by Name?

I tried to look it up and I couldn't figure it out.

 {{{ [tag[hangouts]] }}} - Here is the tag but it is not in the order I wanted.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

Rich Shumaker

[Birthe C]

Hi Rich

How do you sort a Tag by Name?

I tried to look it up and I couldn't figure it out.

 {{{ [tag[hangouts]] }}} - Here is the tag but it is not in the order I wanted.

Maybe  {{{ [tag[hangouts]!sort[title]] }}}


Birthe

[RichShumaker]

Maybe  {{{ [tag[hangouts]!sort[title]] }}}


Birthe

Boom Goes the Dynamite, that worked great.

Thank You Birthe.

I couldn't find it listed the few places I looked

The information was there I just couldn't figure out how to build it.

One Force Refresh later and it worked.

I have made a major break through, go me, and if you get a chance check out what I did.

Ex. Link - http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html#TwHo%2373%20-%20Branimir%20Braykov%20Question

I have a bunch of work tomorrow to do but I have created Tiddlers for each Topic, not really a big deal.

The big deal is I found out how to loop embedded video for just that part of the tiddler.

Locally it works great.

Online it seems you need to hit the circle Arrow where the play button is and that will start the loop over.

Tomorrow I tackle the rest of TW #73 and then I start on TW #72 ect ect ect.

Rich Shumaker

[Birthe C]

Hi Rich,
That is great, it works very well.
The work you are doing will be helpful for all of us. For someone like me having a really hard time watching the hangouts due to language barrier, I think it could make wonders to be able to watch those smaller
parts, and be able to repeat easily.

But what a major job, you have taken upon yourself.


Birthe

[RichShumaker]

Thanks Birthe for the compliment.

I am doing this to understand as my project is very similar and the more I learn the more I can apply ;)

I envisioned a system like this a long time ago, but technology was not quite here yet.

Now that we are here the time to do the work is the easy part.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

Major Update.

I took what people said and tried to incorporate that.

I have completed TW#73 and TW#72

I also tried to clean up content as much as I could.

I did not get all the missing tags :(

Please check it out and let me know what you think.

Thank you everyone for your help.

Rich Shumaker

[Tobias Beer]

I must say Rich, I like the direction this is going.

With a little macro-magick-on-top — which we will hopefully achieve shortly — you should be able to reduce those embedded videos and links to very little.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Mat]

Great job!!! Thank you Rich!

<:-)

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Rich

Many thanks for your enthusiasm for this. Tobias has set a high standard for community publishing, it's great to see things coming together.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[RichShumaker]

Just as an FYI this was built with NO ADD ON's I just grabbed an Empty TiddlyWiki and started dumping in data.

It was an experiment to see what you get from TW without any additional add on's.

I think TW without any add on's is pretty awesome.

Unfortunately it is all hand coded, bleh.  Meaning I know there are easier ways to do the YouTube Links and embeds, i.e. macros.

Tobias has been a HUGE help and my next step will be working on 'Macrofying' stuff.

I hope to create a useful macro for YouTube stuff soon, if anyone already has one let me know as this will be my first TW code and I expect a bumpy road.

Thanks Jeremy for the code snippet at the DEV group.

Speaking of Macro's is there a good tutorial on making them somewhere?(I want to make sure I am naming it correctly with all the correct special characters and such)

Besides Macrofying stuff I also need to add better navigation to make getting around faster and easier.

I will be looking at Tobias's methods as his site because I always seem to be able to find stuff at it.

Rich Shumaker

[Astrid Elocson]

Hi Rich,

There's an example of a YouTube macro here:

http://tiddlywiki.com/#Formatting%20text%20in%20TiddlyWiki

But you might like to try this as an experiment: Create a new system tiddler on your Hangouts wiki. Call it something like "$:/.rich/macros/youtube" - the dot before "rich" will keep this tiddler floating conveniently at the top of the list in the sidebar's System tab. Store the following three lines as the tiddler's content:

\define yt(time, minSec)
[[$time$|http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=$(youtubeid)$&t=$minSec$]]
\end

Make sure there's a linefeed at the end of the third line, i.e. check your typing cursor can go onto a fourth (empty) line below the word "\end".

Give this tiddler the special tag "$:/tags/Macro". This makes the macro it defines available to all tiddlers.

The macro it defines is called "yt" (a nice short name, because you may be using it a lot :)  When you subsequently use the macro, you will have to supply two values, known here as "time" and "minSec". When you subsequently use the macro, "time" will be the time you want to display, e.g. "00:01:25", and "minSec" will be the time in YouTube's format, e.g. "001m25s". The values you supply will appear in the places where the macro's definition says $time$ and $minSec$.

So… at the very start of each hangout tiddler, add a line like the following. Change the video ID to match the hangout in question, and place a blank line between this and the rest of the tiddler.

\define youtubeid() EU-H0xhga08

This also defines a macro, but this macro is only available within this tiddler. Each hangout tiddler can define its own private "youtubeid" macro in this way, to save you having to repeat it for every scene of the hangout.

Then… throughout the rest of the tiddler, you can replace things like this

[[00:01:25|http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-H0xhga08&t=001m25s]]

with less bulky things like this:

<<yt "00:01:25" "001m25s">>

Ideally, you'd want to say just

<<yt "00:01:25">>

or

<<yt "001m25s">>

but I don't think TiddlyWiki itself provides the necessary conversion mechanism. (I hope someone will prove me wrong.) The conversion could be done with a "power macro" written in pure JavaScript, but that's a different can of worms.

– æ

[RichShumaker]

Finally got a chance to try this and WOOHOO I got it to work.

Thank you very much Astrid.

Rich Shumaker

[Astrid Elocson]

Hi Rich,

Glad to help. A good next step would be to macro-ify the remaining markup for each topic in a hangout.

Add a tiddler called "$:/.rich/macros/topic" with the "$:/tags/Macro" tag and the following content:

\define topic(description, time, minSec)
<<yt "$time$" "$minSec$">> ''---'' $description$
\end

\define topiclink(description, time, minSec)
<<yt "$time$" "$minSec$">> ''---'' [[$description$|$(hangoutprefix)$ - $description$]]
\end

with a linefeed at the end of the content, as before.

Then each of your hangout tiddlers can start with something like this:

\define hangoutprefix() TwHo#73
\define youtubeid() EU-H0xhga08

and can contain things like this:

<<topic "Q & A Start" "00:01:25" "001m25s">>
<<topiclink "Eric Discusses how he creates the Wiki Way" "02:08:08" "128m08s">>

The "topic" macro simply states the description. The "topiclink" macro turns the description into a link to a tiddler with that same name but prefixed with "TwHo#73" or whatever.

— æ

[Astrid Elocson]

I couldn't resist the temptation to put a JavaScript macro together, so I've er… put a JavaScript macro together :)

This simplifies usage of the "topic" and "topiclink" macros, described in my previous post, to just this:

<<topic "Q & A Start" "00:01:25">>

<<topiclink "Eric Discusses how he creates the Wiki Way" "02:08:08">>

If you want to try it out, create a tiddler called "$:/.rich/macros/youtime.js". This one doesn't need a tag, but at the bottom of the tiddler edit area, you'll need to set its type to "application/javascript", plus add a field called "module-type" whose value is "macro". Paste the tiddler's content from the attached file, "youtime.txt".

You can then change the content of "$:/.rich/macros/topic" to this:

\define topic(description, timecode)
<<youtime "$(youtubeid)$" "$timecode$">> ''---'' $description$
\end

\define topiclink(description, timecode)
<<youtime "$(youtubeid)$" "$timecode$">> ''---'' [[$description$|$(hangoutprefix)$ - $description$]]
\end

This causes "topic" and "topiclink" to use the "youtime" macro defined in "$:/.rich/macros/youtime.js". The "youtime" macro generates a timed YouTube link and can be used on its own, like this:

<<youtime "EU-H0xhga08" "00:01:25">>

If this works for you, you can delete the "$:/.rich/macros/youtube" tiddler I offered yesterday :)

— æ

[RichShumaker]

All I can say is THANK YOU Astrid(love your signature by the way).

After re-reading my own post I also have to apologize for all the questions, the more I asked the more I had questions and thus asked.

I am working with the code right now and working out the bugs and kinks.

Haven't gotten it completely working yet but I suspect I am doing something wrong as I am new to implementing stuff.

The question that came up when I was working with <<youtime>> is how do you define the "youtubeid" when you are doing things like this below?

<<topic "Q & A Start" "00:01:25">>

<<topiclink "Eric Discusses how he creates the Wiki Way" "02:08:08">>

In the previous Tiddlers Macro Example I would define the youtubeid at the start of the Tiddler and it would be used in only that Tiddler.

Do I still do that?

Will I have to eliminate the original macro as I have done some work with it and would like to keep it?

Not sure if the two Macros will fight with each other.

How do you put a 'Created by X or Y in a Macro.js file?'

I want to make sure I know in 6 months who made the macro and I am afraid it is one of the reasons I use TW is to help my memory.

So putting details in the Macro will help me help myself later.

Here is what I currently use and what I am "doing" and why - Your Macro will make this go much smoother once I get it up and running and work out the formatting

00:02:03(0123s) — 00:02:03 - Eric IndieGogo Update

00:02:03 - Time code in a consistent format that is 'future proof', I really doubt we will do a 10 hour hangout BUT this also allows me to do a timecode to second conversion in my spreadsheet

0123s - Conversion using a spreadsheet to seconds as you need to use this for embedding the video(no 2m3sec for Embedding)

Need to explore making this consistent and future proof - There are 24 hours in a day so #### is insufficient and needs to be #####(d'oh!)

00:02:03 - Clickable Timecode link so I don't have to be redundant and put it twice and people can visually make sure they are going to the correct spot, I make mistakes, and the browser can glitch too.

Eric IndieGogo Update - Clickable Neat Link - I use a real Tiddler Name of "TwHo#72 - Eric IndieGogo Update" as Eric Might Update us in more than one hangout ;)

That is what I came up with to be concise and not missing any details.

This becomes a huge template for ANY Google Hangout once it is done, if I can do it correctly.

And no I currently don't do any hangouts but with software like this it makes me think I should, ;)

Last but certainly not least, can I hack your code to create a 'timecode' macro?

I want to convert the 0:57:13 to 3433 seconds and your code has the start of doing that.

It would be helpful to see if I can hack a macro together.

Still learning the basics of JavaScript.

If you want to put an answer(meaning a timecode macro) just let me know so I can look at it after I have a go myself.

Thanks again very much for your help it is greatly appreciated.

Rich Shumaker

[Astrid Elocson]

> In the previous Tiddlers Macro Example I would define the youtubeid at the start of the Tiddler and it would be used in only that Tiddler. Do I still do that?

Yes, you do. Each hangout tiddler needs to start with

\define hangoutprefix() TwHo#73
\define youtubeid() EU-H0xhga08

to set up its environment.

The "topiclink" macro then picks these up as $(youtubeid)$ and $(hangoutprefix)$:

\define topiclink(description, timecode)
<<youtime "$(youtubeid)$" "$timecode$">> ''---'' [[$description$|$(hangoutprefix)$ - $description$]]
\end

By the way, the reason why $description$ and $timecode$ don't have parentheses inside their dollar signs is that they're the immediate parameters of the "topiclink" macro itself. The $(blah)$ syntax, by contrast, looks for "blah" as something defined further out.

> Will I have to eliminate the original macro as I have done some work with it and would like to keep it?

I was kinda assuming you would delete it. I changed the definitions of "topic" and "topiclink" to use the "youtime" macro, and your wiki can't contain both definitions at the same time. If you try to do so, they will fight each other as you say, and one or the other will win in a pretty arbitrary fashion.

Sorry I wasn't able to supply you with everything at once! I'm on the TW5 learning curve, too… Can you not search and replace to adjust your earlier work to the new pattern?

> How do you put a 'Created by X or Y in a Macro.js file?'

The top section of the text, between /*\ and \*/, is a JavaScript comment. TiddlyWiki expects this comment to start with lines giving "name: value" information about the macro, but it gives up at the first blank line of the comment. So feel free to write anything you like after a blank line, but before the \*/:

/*\
title: $:/.rich/macros/youtime.js
type: application/javascript
module-type: macro

blah blah blah

and some more blah
\*/

> Time code in a consistent format that is 'future proof'

That makes sense, and is why I gave preference to that format as the parameter to "youtime".

> no 2m3sec for Embedding

Ah. How annoying. I didn't know that. I think you'll need a second macro, similar to "youtime", that takes the same two parameters ("youtubeid" and "timecode") and generates whatever's needed for an embed. I think you've already realised this yourself.

> I use a real Tiddler Name of "TwHo#72 - Eric IndieGogo Update" as Eric Might Update us in more than one hangout ;)

Indeed! But that's what "hangoutprefix" is for. The revised "topiclink" macro in my third post in this thread generates just such a link: [[$description$|$(hangoutprefix)$ - $description$]]

> can I hack your code to create a 'timecode' macro?

Go ahead. It should be a question of changing

var h = bits[0], m = bits[1], s = bits[2], m = h*60 + m*1;

to

var h = bits[0], m = bits[1], s = bits[2], s = h*60*60 + m*60 + s;

and then using "s" (rather than both "m" and "s") in the output. The output might as well be the whole "iframe" embedding guff.

– æ

[RichShumaker]

Perfect and Thanks again Astrid.

I will be working on it more tonight and some over the next few days.

I will let you know once I have something implemented so you can check out what I did.

Rich Shumaker

[Astrid Elocson]

Well, I've put together a working example at http://aelocson-test-1.tiddlyspot.com. This contains a new macro for embedding the hangout videos. Hopefully it's not too hard to follow.

Things are less messy now. You no longer need to define youtubeid at the start of each hangout tiddler. Instead, the IDs live in a data tiddler called "$:/.rich/data/videos", where the various macros look up the hangout number using text references (http://tiddlywiki.com/#TextReference).

It occurs to me that your entire spreadsheet could be converted into a set of data tiddlers, and the entire content of each hangout tiddler could be generated automatically from that information. In fact, it would be possible to generate the entire hangouts wiki from a separate source, such as your spreadsheet or even another TiddlyWiki. But I'm not going to bite off more than I can chew :)

– æ

[RichShumaker]

Wow Awesome Thanks and WooHoo all in one word.

I will check it out and let you know how I make out as I have tendency to get confounded easily.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
I just finished the hangout and after I talked to Jed Carty briefly about this and he is working on something average folk(non coders) could easily use.

I will try to see if there is an area you did not exploit in your Macro as an opportunity to do a bit of coding.
We will see as you seem to have a pretty complete macro.

Thanks again Astrid.

Rich Shumaker

[Jed Carty]

Using the things Rich told me in the hangout today and the macros Astrid made I put together a simple interface for building the hangout notes (Or just notes for any youtube video). There are a few things that I should probably include, like clicking on the time stamps changing the video in the tiddler to that time instead of opening a new window, or possibly allowing tags to be added to each entry. So, as a first draft is there anything obvious missing?

At the moment I am directly using the macros from Astrid but there may be some simplifications that can be done for this specific application, but I have been breaking everything I have tried to edit so far.

[Jed Carty]

And I should actually give the link http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#Video%20timestamp%20test

[RichShumaker]

Jed that is Awesome.

Astrid,

I have been trying to figure out the Embed Video and I am not sure the best next step.

I am flumoxed and think there is a simple space issue in the code.

Since I am not a great coder I spent a few hours banging at it but couldn't figure it out.

Which leads to a discussion I need to put over at Dev, how do you troubleshoot Macros?

Posting over there in a second.

Any ideas Astrid on the Embed code?

Oh and THANKS AGAIN Astrid I am holding off on TwHo#74 till I get some code going to help me ;)

Also the more Macros the shorter the work on the backlog of content from Mario and Tobias.

Rich Shumaker

[Astrid Elocson]

Jed has produced a superb interface there.

> I am flumoxed and think there is a simple space issue in the code.

Could you expand on that thought?

I've had another look at the JavaScript of the "youtube-embed" macro, and can't see anything wrong with it. I've added some comments to it (on http://aelocson-test-1.tiddlyspot.com) that may help you better understand how it works.

But I did spot a mistake I'd made in the definition of the "topiclink" macro. It was using the value of "hangoutprefix" as the prefix of the target of its generated link, where it should have been using the string "TwHo#" plus the value of "hangout" - which should be a simple number, like this:

\define hangout() 73

Apologies for that: it's now corrected.

The trap I fell into when I first experimented with JavaScript macro modules was that I expected my changes to the macro's cde to immediately show up in the tiddlers that called the macro. But they don't. You have to refresh the page first, so that TiddlyWiki gets a chance to re-execute the module definition. This can be bewildering if you don't realise what's going on.

Additional confusion may have arisen from the fact that I've published these macros to you in several steps, and later steps have modified some of my work in earlier steps. I adjusted some of the parameter names, for example.

I'll reply to your Dev posting with some thoughts on debugging.

– æ

[Astrid Elocson]

But on further investigation…

You were right, Rich. There was a mistake in the "embed" macro. I'd missed off the closing dollar sign of "$start$" and "$end$". This was causing the "youtube-embed" JavaScript macro to receive the strings "$start" and "$end" as its parameters, wreaking havoc.

Bizarrely, "embed" was still embedding a YouTube video that played the expected section when clicked. At least, it was for me. I don't claim to understand that.

I've uploaded a corrected version to TiddlySpot.

– æ

[RichShumaker]

Thanks Thanks and Thanks.

My sanity is still in place, heheh.

Thought I was going crazy there for a bit as they were not doing the right thing but I couldn't figure out why.

I will try them out and start using them once I get the hang of it.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

Astrid,

I wanted to let you know that I really like the idea of the list of YouTube ID's.

So I extrapolated on that in 2 ways.

Way #1 - I added a Google Hangout ID and a Version # ID the same way you did the [[$:/.rich/data/videos]] Tiddler.

That way all the data needed for these events is in 3 tiddlers and could easily be moved from one TW to another with little work.

You don't need all 74 events to get all the link id's you might need.  I know that the Google Hangouts does not have all 74 but I think you get what I mean.

Way #2 - twCard Event - This is a [[<Name Plate>]] that would sit outside the virtual event door.

The twCard is a format that could be used for people, places, or things.

It is basically a TiddlyWiki version of the vCard but with more usability.

I will be holidaying for most of the next few days so I will post what is done after that.

Thanks again for all your help.

Rich Shumaker

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Rich,

 

Way #1 - I added a Google Hangout ID and a Version # ID the same way you did the [[$:/.rich/data/videos]] Tiddler.

That way all the data needed for these events is in 3 tiddlers and could easily be moved from one TW to another with little work.

You don't need all 74 events to get all the link id's you might need.  I know that the Google Hangouts does not have all 74 but I think you get what I mean.

While sure better, I hope some point the data-tiddler parser will dig at least one level deeper into json data tiddlers, e.g.

$:/data/hangouts

{
070: {
date: "20141125160000",
youtube: "VKDVD6mf9tk",
google: "cfusv41bqto7jcc7l40oft30lv8"
}
}

So, you could somehow read...

{{$:/data/hangouts##070##date}}

...or something equivalent.

 

Way #2 - twCard Event - This is a [[<Name Plate>]] that would sit outside the virtual event door.

The twCard is a format that could be used for people, places, or things.

It is basically a TiddlyWiki version of the vCard but with more usability.

You've mentioned that a few times. Where exactly you're headed with it, what do you envision to do with this "card" / to be done about it?

Best wishes, Tobias.

[RichShumaker]

Hi Rich,

 

Way #1 - I added a Google Hangout ID and a Version # ID the same way you did the [[$:/.rich/data/videos]] Tiddler.

That way all the data needed for these events is in 3 tiddlers and could easily be moved from one TW to another with little work.

You don't need all 74 events to get all the link id's you might need.  I know that the Google Hangouts does not have all 74 but I think you get what I mean.

While sure better, I hope some point the data-tiddler parser will dig at least one level deeper into json data tiddlers, e.g.

$:/data/hangouts

{
070: {
date: "20141125160000",
youtube: "VKDVD6mf9tk",
google: "cfusv41bqto7jcc7l40oft30lv8"
}
}

So, you could somehow read...

{{$:/data/hangouts##070##date}}

...or something equivalent.

Tobias and Astrid too,

I have updated the hangout site and done something similar but different.

Instead of creating a single entry per Hangout with all the details in more of a JSON format.

I created Tiddlers for all the Hangouts for the different data in a consistent format.

Putting each type of data in one Tiddler for all Hangouts, similar to the Videos that Astrid created.

Here it the list of lists - All of the hangout data I could find is completed for this

Dates - $:/.rich/data/twhangoutdates

Google Hangouts - $:/.rich/data/googlehangouts

YouTube Videos - $:/.rich/data/videos

TW Versions - $:/.rich/data/twversion

Tags $:/.rich/data/twtags

Exceptions - $:/.rich/data/twhangout_exceptions

Tags is not set up yet and it is just an idea for now.

 

Way #2 - twCard Event - This is a [[<Name Plate>]] that would sit outside the virtual event door.

The twCard is a format that could be used for people, places, or things.

It is basically a TiddlyWiki version of the vCard but with more usability.

You've mentioned that a few times. Where exactly you're headed with it, what do you envision to do with this "card" / to be done about it?

The primary issue is that I needed people's details for the Google Hangouts.

It was actually your site Tobias that started this as your signature is awesome at your site.

Unfortunately it uses dynamic content so your [[Tobias Beer]] Tiddler turned to mush when I drag and dropped it.

So I needed a simple vCard using TiddlyWiki or twCard.

When I started working on the Google Hangouts project I needed a standard format for events too.

Which led me to think about stuff and everything that could come up.

So the idea behind the twCard turned into an "Everything Card" that follows a "Standard Format" that can "Easily be Shared" between TiddlyWiki's(and the world).

Drag and Drop Consistency with Useful Reusable Content.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

Astrid,

I am going to need to explore expanding your Awesome Macros to add the other details I have put in.(date, tw version, google hangout)

Please feel free to change them around if you have time and would like too.

Your help has been greatly appreciated.

One thing I found out after updating 2 Tiddlers using the new Topic Macro is that I need to change the order of the data.

Having the time second and description first causes issues and makes it difficult to read.

Here is what I was discussing <<topic(description, timecode)>> is difficult to read visually and harder to work with.

Oh and "" are an issue from Mario's notes and I will probably need to clean them out and change them from "" to '' before I create Hangout Pages to avoid issues.

The Macro picks up on "blah blah blah" and tries to make a new line of code.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

I figured out part of it and that was a lot easier than I thought.

I used the same method for Date and TW Version in the header that Astrid used with local variables.

Except they were in the tiddlers I had created for Date and TW Version.

Thanks again everyone for all the help.

Rich Shumaker

[Astrid Elocson]

Hi Rich,

Sorry for the delay in replying, but pleased you figured things out.

Switching the order of parameters to a macro is merely a matter of switching their order within the parentheses on the \define line.

If you need to include the " (double quote) character when you pass a value to a macro, there's an easy solution: enclose the value in """ (triple double quotes). There's an example under "Multiline Parameters" at http://tiddlywiki.com/#Macros%20in%20WikiText

– æ

[RichShumaker]

Thanks again Astrid.

I am working on a google hangouts link now since I added the new Tiddlers for Date, Google Hangouts, TW Version.

Your example for the YouTube Videos made it a lot easier to change the header.

The header pulls all the data except I need to get the Google Link set up.

So I just use header () ## and it pulls all the data automagically now, much easier and faster for sure.

Will be working on switching stuff around and then I can start on the backlog that I have been putting off till I had some macros.

Rich Shumaker

[PMario]

Hi Rich,
It seems you make good progress. .. nice!

I did change the "hangout space" license to cc-by-sa [1], which makes it more open and it is the same as wikipedia now.

have fun!
mario

[1] http://hangouts.tiddlyspace.com/#License

[RichShumaker]

Thanks Mario for the update.  I will be updating my license to match yours.

I am updating content and fixing things so as soon as I get things worked out the site with the new licenses will show up.

I am having issues working out some simple Macro stuff for the Google Hangouts.

Astrid has helped me out a lot and now I have automated the <<headers>> that provide all the details with little or no work.

I unfortunately have not created many Macros so the Hangout links are escaping me.

I have posted my dev site and the Astrid's youtube macro is simply cut and pasted to make the googlehangoutlink.js macro.

I am trying to add together the data from the Google Hangout [[$:/.rich/data/googlehangouts]] to a standard google link "https://plus.google.com/events/"

I am also having an issue with the Embedding of the videos and I need to figure that out as well.

Here is the link to the dev site in case anyone wants to check it out and make suggestions.

http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/Dev-TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html

The topics and topic links that Astrid created makes creating a hangout much faster and easier.

Overall I am very happy with the progress and I have the 50's Hangouts done now using the new method.

Just need to fix some stuff up to have it all running smoothly.

Once all the content is in I will start to add better navigation and start to update the look and feel.

Thanks to everyone for all the help.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

I have been able to hack together the Google Link.

The code needs to be cut down but it is working.

So I have posted an update with the new Copyright details.

All of the 50's have been added and I will be working on the rest of the Mario's stuff now that the header works.

Next step is getting the Embed Macro working then I can finish up 74 and start 75.

http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html

Thanks again everyone for the help.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

So I have updated the site with TiddlyWiki Hangout #075 details.

I am still working out the details of creating the embedded Tiddlers so that is missing and I did everything inline for this.

I will be trying out Jed's new Tool listed below

I have added a few new tiddlers today

[[TiddlyWiki Online Groups]]

[[YouTube Video Annotations]] - From Jed's Site

I will be working on 74 next but thought 75 just coming out was more important.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Rich Shumaker

[Jed Carty]

It looks great!
Just remember that my tool is a work in progress and I will hopefully be changing things around so that the timestamp tiddlers are named using the human readable names instead of the youtube ids. The current timestamps should still be searchable after the change, but I don't know of any good way to do a search and replace to tiddler names inside tiddlywiki so you may end up with a bunch of ugly names if you use it now. I also need to add the option to set a timestamp that is from one time to a second time instead of just jumping to a specific time.
I am not saying you can't or shouldn't use it if you want, just that I may be making some potentially significant changes.

[Alex Hough]

It's looking very useful. Personally speaking, I love Thet fact that you've put in links to flow and Zetlekesten

Alex

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[RichShumaker]

Ideally all of the conversations that are started create [[Tiddlers]] or [[nodes]] in Zetelspeak.

Then as time moves forward each of those Tiddlers expands naturally week after week.

Thanks for bringing up Flow Alex as that is of key interest for me.

If you show up(which I seem to miss often) to the hangout then you can bring up a conversation.

That conversation will spawn a Tiddler and ideally you take that Tiddler to your site and expand on it.

I am trying to keep the end Tiddlers Macro free  The main Tiddlers are all Macro'd up.

I also need to figure out how to share Tiddlers with Macro's that have the Macro content baked in.

I am trying to create something that GitHub does where you branch and then the original content creator can roll your branch data back in.

So Please Grab something you find of interest from the conversations and expand on them in your own TiddlyWiki.

At a minimum I will link to your content and I might just grab your content and roll it back in with a TAG for your name.

If you use the Tags created for the TiddlyWiki Hangouts then it will always link back to that Tiddler from your own site.

Since Drag and Drop is fairly easy I don't see any major issues doing this for most things.

I just need to be careful of being too "fancy pants" as you won't get much of a [[Flow]] if I use lots of macros for the end level of details.

That is why a baked macro tiddler tool would be helpful and probably exists I just haven't found it yet.

Here is the Logic behind the site or what I envision the logic to be

[[TiddlyWiki Hangout Tiddler]] - Timecode breakdown for direct jump and brief descriptions of each Topic

[[TwHo Tiddler on Each Topic]] - This Tiddler includes Embedded Video of that section from Start to End - This will allow you to view content on specific topics in a playlist style.

[[Tiddlers]] - Each Topic can create [[Topic Specific Tiddlers]] on specific items like [[Flow]] and [[Persons of Interest for Flow]]

[[tags]] are used to interlink things - If I show up to a Hangout then [[Rich Shumaker]] would be tagged on that Hangout.

Each person can give me a [[<Name Plate>]] which represents them and I will put it in the Hangout TW.

Right now I just make them up based on what I can find out about the person online.

One thing that I did was add me saying my name my [[<Name Plate>]].

My name is often mixed up so me saying it and putting it on my Tiddler makes it easier for other people.

http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html#Rich%20Shumaker

Thanks again to everyone for all the help.

Hopefully I will get the bugs worked out shortly and I will be able to update all the content to be consistent.

Rich Shumaker

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 11:58:35 PM UTC-8, AlexHough wrote:

It's looking very useful. Personally speaking, I love Thet fact that you've put in links to flow and Zetlekesten

Alex

On Wednesday, 31 December 2014, Jed Carty <inmy...@gmail.com> wrote:

It looks great!
Just remember that my tool is a work in progress and I will hopefully be changing things around so that the timestamp tiddlers are named using the human readable names instead of the youtube ids. The current timestamps should still be searchable after the change, but I don't know of any good way to do a search and replace to tiddler names inside tiddlywiki so you may end up with a bunch of ugly names if you use it now. I also need to add the option to set a timestamp that is from one time to a second time instead of just jumping to a specific time.
I am not saying you can't or shouldn't use it if you want, just that I may be making some potentially significant changes.

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[RichShumaker]

Any help on this would be appreciated.

I work in FireFox and check in Google Chrome

Locally I don't get this error on FireFox but when I went to my site I just noticed that my page has a Big Red Java Box of Doom

Any ideas what this might be or where to start.

I can go back in time to a back up and try to recreate it but I don't do real 'revisioning' so this might be difficult.

I also don't like that it happens in FireFox on the Server but not Chrome and it does not happen locally at all.

Makes me think I need to do something on the server like a permissions issue.

Thanks everyone.

Rich Shumaker

[Jed Carty]

I have no idea what is wrong or how you would fix it, but I tried on my computer and both firefox and chrome gave errors. Firefox gave the same one as in the image you posted, chrome says: Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token f

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Rich,

Edit that file in a text editor.

Find that plugin you last edited and remove the type field.

Then see if you can find the problem.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[RichShumaker]

Wow that is the first time I have looked at TW in a txt editor.

Any help on what I am looking for in the code.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

I am not having the issue locally on Firefox, yet.

Why would it be different on the server than locally? permissions(it is 644 now).

Could I have created an error on upload?

Thanks again for your help with this.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

"Any help on what I am looking for in the code."

It is in my first post but I missed it.

3524 column 74

Checking now.

Rich Shumaker

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Rich,

 

Any help on what I am looking for in the code.

The title of that system tiddler in the store section where it is followed by a <pre> for the tiddler body.

At that tiddler, remove the attribute "type=applciation/javascript".

Save, reload... debug.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[RichShumaker]

So I have been searching and I have not found that section yet, or I have and I don't know.

Any other bread crumbs on finding what I need to remove?

Also why is it that it works locally in all my browsers and now it seems nothing works on the server?

Does JavaScript have a server side that I could have broken?

As always thank you very much for all your help.

Rich Shumaker

[BJ]

HI Rich,
I downloaded your tiddlywiki and loaded it locally into ff and I get the same red errror box. To me this means that there is a difference between your local file and what is uploaded - you could download the version online to your local machine and do a comparison of the two version using a diff application.

It looks to me (from the error message) that maybe one of the plugin names is being converted to an illegal char - do you have any non-ascii plugin names?

cheers

BJ

[RichShumaker]

Thanks BJ will do that now as that makes perfect sense.

I used the TW5 upgrade tool on my local Hangout TW and stripped out almost all the macros I thought could have caused it.

Uploaded and still same issue.  So maybe it is getting corrupted on upload.

Will try to zip and decompress on the server to see if that fixes it.

What is weird is I didn't have this issue before so I am confounded on what I did or changed.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

So what is the emoticon for jumping up and down in place like I am seven?

I know I am missing something simple at this point but I don't know what that simple thing is.

So here is where I am at and it is a weird place to be at.

If you go to the main page for all my TW's

All pages including empty5-1-5 are mess up except

http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TW-Learning-Level1.html

and

http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TW-Learning-Level1old.htm

Which is funny as those are the two I am wanting to redo the most, #heheh.

I tried to ZIP and upload and decompress on the server to avoid potential issues being injected during upload.

Same issue Java Box of Doom.

I did what BJ suggested and compared the files from the server to the local file and they are identical.

The file works locally but not on the server.

I just uploaded a fresh new copy of TW5(5.1.7), same issue, red box of doom.

So that is empty version of 5.1.5 and 5.1.7 that both are showing a problem on the server.

I have not been able to do what Tobias asked as I was not sure exactly what to remove when I was in the text editor.

Loved looking at TW5 in the Text editor, very cool.  I will be doing that more.

So I guess I could try to upload this file to a shared space to see if the issue exists but many have said they see the issue locally even though I don't.

The thing I find really weird is that not ALL of the files are broken which would at least be consistent.

I am near my wits end so any suggestions are welcomed and thanks again everyone for your help.

Rich Shumaker

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Rich

Opening one of the offending wikis in Chrome with dev tools open shows that the problem is that it's failing the parse the JSON of the $:/core tiddler. So the core has been corrupted in some way. I'd expect you to be able to use tiddlywiki.com/upgrade.html to fix that, but it's possible that there are other problems that I didn't get to.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[RichShumaker]

Thanks Jeremy.

So I have used the upgrade tool and the issue continued.

I have put the file on Google Drive and it worked!!!

So I have sent an issue to my hosting provider to see if they can figure out anything.

I could have a weird server side interaction or who knows at this point.

It is very weird.

Now I really need the emoticon for jumping up and down in a huff like I am 7.

Rich Shumaker

[BJ]

HI Rich,
you have some html inserted in your tw -  I downloaded your 'emtpy tw' and at line 3652 there is some html tags in the middle of json data being with a <script> tag
cheers
BJ

[BJ]

correction beging with <a class="__cf_email__"

[RichShumaker]

So I have a feeling something weird is happening on upload or on the server.

I saved a blank empty.html and then uploaded it to my server.

I downloaded the file from the page that serves it and went to it, Java RED box of doom.

There are differences from the blank and downloaded version which should be identical.

When I go to the page there are more differences and the Java RED box of doom comes up as well.

I will let you guys know what I find out from the hosting company tomorrow and if you guys have any other suggestions let me know.

<Insert Huffy 7 year old emoticon here>

I am sure I did something silly and just need to fix that.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

I have a feeling I am having an uploading issue.

I took a clean empty.html file and uploaded it via FTP.

Then I downloaded the file from the web browser.

Oddly this one line changed in the process, remember I never looked at this file online I simply uploaded it and downloaded it.

From Line 3651

Fresh Clean Empty.html

(c) Dean McNamee &lt;dean@gmail.com&gt;, 2012

Uploaded to server and Downloaded from browser link Empty.html

(c) Dean McNamee &lt;<a class="__cf_email__" href="/cdn-cgi/l/email-protection" data-cfemail="debabbbfb09eb9b3bfb7b2f0bdb1b3">[email&#160;protected]</a><script cf-hash='f9e31' type="text/javascript">
/* <![CDATA[ */!function(){try{var t="currentScript"in document?document.currentScript:function(){for(var t=document.getElementsByTagName("script"),e=t.length;e--;)if(t[e].getAttribute("cf-hash"))return t[e]}();if(t&&t.previousSibling){var e,r,n,i,c=t.previousSibling,a=c.getAttribute("data-cfemail");if(a){for(e="",r=parseInt(a.substr(0,2),16),n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)i=parseInt(a.substr(n,2),16)^r,e+=String.fromCharCode(i);e=document.createTextNode(e),c.parentNode.replaceChild(e,c)}}}catch(u){}}();/* ]]> */</script>&gt;, 2012

So I am guessing my server which says it 

Status: Server does not support non-ASCII characters.

Must have magically changed the code.  I just don't get why an upload would 'convert' the code to what looks like a link.

Any help is greatly appreciated and thank you very much again for all the help.

Rich Shumaker

[BJ]

This looks like an anti-spam device - to stop email addresses being harvested by spam bots from your website- your provider must be doing this. - maybe we need a plugin to apply anti-spam parsing?
BJ

[RichShumaker]

WTF, sorry for swearing.

I found the issue and I just confirmed it.

BJ said Spam Filter and I went to check what things I have added to my site and then I remembered CloudFlare.

I just added it and until BJ said Spam Filter I never even would have thought about it.

I disabled CloudFlare on my site and boom goes the dynamite issue resolved.

I must have agreed to have code injected in my HTML when I signed the license for CloudFlare.

Here is the link to the now fully functional site.

Tiddler I created on the site when I first started trying to figure out the issue.

So that is one that we might want to write down.

CloudFlare cause 1 guy an issue so it might cause you one too.

Rich Shumaker

[Birthe C]

Hi Rich,

What a relief! What kind of jumping emoticon are you missing now? #he he, I am guessing you can not get your arms down.


Birthe

[RichShumaker]

My arms were up all night Birthe hence no reply, #heheh

At first I was shaking my fist in the air with a vengeance at CloudFlare and not figuring it out sooner, Thanks BJ and everyone for your help.

Then I was this emoticon, *o/*.

I did not know that adding * to either side meant jump in emotospeak(emoji), I just keep learning.

So has anyone added the Emoticons from Github, Campfire and a bunch of other sites to TiddlyWiki 5?

Thanks again everyone for the help.

Now that I know what I am making won't explode when uploaded I will be getting more done today.

Rich Shumaker

[Tobias Beer]

So has anyone added the Emoticons from Github, Campfire and a bunch of other sites to TiddlyWiki 5?

I'm totally happy with FontAwesome, but emoticons... God beware. ^^

Best wishes, Tobias.

[RichShumaker]

So has anyone added the Emoticons from Github, Campfire and a bunch of other sites to TiddlyWiki 5?

I'm totally happy with FontAwesome, but emoticons... God beware. ^^

The happy is on my face because you said that as it is too true <insert crazy emoticon here>

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

Getting back on track now that the error is resolved.

The site is updated with new data from quite a few of Mario's Pages.

I am closing in on having all the data moved over only 20 more to go, #heheh.

Once I have the 20 moved over I will start to cut down the missing tiddlers.

Also creating new cross links between the world and the Hangouts TW.

There are 6 Hangouts that are missing Detailed Logs.

If you want to help out check the site link above and create a log for one of them.

I have put Jed's YouTube Video Annotations tool using Astrid's YouTube Macro into the Missing Tiddler to make it easier.

PM me or post here if you create a detailed log so I can grab the data and add it in.

Thanks to Mario and Tobias as well as Jed Carty and definitely Astrid.

Rich Shumaker

[PMario]

On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 9:03:58 AM UTC+1, RichShumaker wrote:

There are 6 Hangouts that are missing Detailed Logs.

If you want to help out check the site link above and create a log for one of them.

Oh lazy me ;) ..

I think one hangout video is corrupted. and one is the TW5 release day 8h marathon.
I'm definitely not annotating the 8h version. Someone else may jump in here :)

I'm doing the high numbers first :)

-m

[RichShumaker]

Thanks Mario for all your work that you have done, it is really amazing everything you did and do with the Hangouts and I appreciate it.

Like I said early on I am glad I did not find what you did until I was knee deep as I would not have started this, and I have learned a lot from creating it.

8 hours seriously, can I say "Not it" and let the next person take it, #heheh.

Oh and I was hoping someone besides you might try the tools out and see what they might be able to do.

So if anyone reads this, and wants to try things out, start at the low numbers of the missing Tiddlers, as Mario is starting at the high ones :)

I still have to get your first 20 done and that may take a bit.

As an FYI, I have your Hang_Out versions unedited in Tiddlers, then I have to strip " and make them ' to work with the Macros I am using.

So there is duplication of data in my system.  I may turn your Tiddlers into Shadow Tiddlers(?) so they are removed from the search cue to avoid doubling up.

Oh and that would be after I finish them all.

Rich Shumaker

[PMario]

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 10:32:49 PM UTC+1, RichShumaker wrote:

I still have to get your first 20 done and that may take a bit.

:)
 

As an FYI, I have your Hang_Out versions unedited in Tiddlers, then I have to strip " and make them ' to work with the Macros I am using.

So there is duplication of data in my system.  

I'm creating the annotations with the editor of my pmario space. ... There is one simple reason, why I create them the way they are. ... So Jeremy has an easy copy paste the content to the youtube videos.

I like your effort to expand the annotations and give them more content. So the information / ideas in the discussions are exposed to more people, that prefer reading over viewing!

I may turn your Tiddlers into Shadow Tiddlers(?) so they are removed from the search cue to avoid doubling up.

Oh and that would be after I finish them all.

IMO when we have better possibilities for multi user TWs, I think Tobias and I will merge our hangout space with your extended content TW. ... But at the moment I need something that I can use without any thinking. And a plain text editor is exactly that. ...

Using the tab key to switch between input fields, using the mouse to open drop down menues, adding tags by clicking buttons, ...
slows me down to much. As I said I try to watch the videos at 2x speed so I need to be fast :)

have fun!
keep on the nice work :)
-m

[RichShumaker]

Mario I take notes the same way you do in a text editor that stays on top and I watch in 1.5X or 2X.

I have been modifying that to see how fast I can do it with YouTube Annotations that Jed Created.

I wanted to say I have finished the back catalog of Mario's work.

So now all 76 TW Hangouts are covered except for the missing ones, including the 8 hour marathon.

I need to add a few of Marios Hangout Notes that I didn't because I created them myself, I see a good reason to keep Marios work complete in my TW Hangouts.

I will be taking a few days off the Hangouts as I need to work on the other projects I started.

Next up when I come back will be finding any of Mario's Notes I did not add and adding them.

Killing Missing Tiddlers.

Creating more detailed Tiddlers for recent TW Hangouts and starting to TiddlyWiki the Hangouts more.

Thanks again everyone for all the help.

Rich Shumaker

[RichShumaker]

Just finished TiddlyWiki Hangouts #078 and it is posted.

Still need to do #077 and I have a lot of clean up work to do with getting Mario's work copied over and then completing things that have been started.

I thought I had all of Mario's work over but I checked and I am missing some.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Rich Shumaker

[PMario]

On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 2:11:04 AM UTC+1, RichShumaker wrote:

Just finished TiddlyWiki Hangouts #078 and it is posted.

cool!
 

Still need to do #077 and I have a lot of clean up work to do with getting Mario's work copied over and then completing things that have been started.

I thought I had all of Mario's work over but I checked and I am missing some.

Which reminds me to view some videos. ... Please tell me (private mail) if you started to work on a video, so we can sync. I'll inform you, if I start to view a missing one :)

-mario