Tiddlywiki for groups

[Pablo Trujillo (Colombiano en UY)]

Hi all... i would like to ask you, if by your experience if it is
possible to have this software for a group of 100 people so each can
write their tasks... i know it works fine for personal use, but can we
manage it to be in a server and be used by a group. If not.. is there
a similar group application for a medium size group (100 people)
Thanks a lot!!!

[Alex Hough]

TiddlyWeb?
Include Plugin and Dropbox?

I am curious: How are the 100 people organised?

Its wonderful that you are concidering co-ordinating this many people with TW!

Alex

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[Pablo Trujillo]

We are a 100 people that work in software. The idea is to have a place
where we can write our personal tasks and possibly the idea to share
the tasks.

We are organized in different teams and there are stand alone teams
and other teams have relationship between themselves.

If you want, please let me know a little bit more about how you think
this may work.

On Jan 19, 6:42 pm, Alex Hough <r.a.ho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> TiddlyWeb?
> Include Plugin and Dropbox?
>
> I am curious: How are the 100 people organised?
>
> Its wonderful that you are concidering co-ordinating this many people with
> TW!
>
> Alex
>
> On 19 January 2012 13:59, Pablo Trujillo (Colombiano en UY) <
>

[Pablo Trujillo]

The problem is that i am not able to find a sample of images of these
tools, so i cannot know how the actually work and i cannot install
until i am 70% sure that this will somehow work.

[colmjude]

On Jan 19, 1:59 pm, "Pablo Trujillo (Colombiano en UY)"

Have you seen TiddlySpace? It allows many people to have TWs online,
work on TWs together, share tiddlers between TWs and many other
things.

There is a freely available service located at http://tiddlyspace.com
and if you think it would match your requirements then you could
install and run your own instance on your own server giving you
greater control and flexibility. The source code is at https://github.com/TiddlySpace

Hope that helps,

Colm

[Pablo Trujillo]

Oh... that looks good... are you saying that we can get all that site
and create it for us for free? and also access the code to customize
it?

It sounds awesome!!!

On Jan 20, 10:25 am, colmjude <colmj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 19, 1:59 pm, "Pablo Trujillo (Colombiano en UY)"
>
> <pablo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all... i would like to ask you, if by your experience if it is
> > possible to have this software for a group of 100 people so each can
> > write their tasks... i know it works fine for personal use, but can we
> > manage it to be in a server and be used by a group. If not.. is there
> > a similar group application for a medium size group (100 people)
> > Thanks a lot!!!
>
> Have you seen TiddlySpace? It allows many people to have TWs online,
> work on TWs together, share tiddlers between TWs and many other
> things.
>

> There is a freely available service located athttp://tiddlyspace.com

> and if you think it would match your requirements then you could
> install and run your own instance on your own server giving you

> greater control and flexibility. The source code is athttps://github.com/TiddlySpace
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Colm

[colmjude]

On Jan 20, 1:13 pm, Pablo Trujillo <pablo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh... that looks good... are you saying that we can get all that site
> and create it for us for free? and also access the code to customize
> it?

Anybody is free to use the TiddlySpace service[1] but everyone that
does should bear in mind that they aren't the only resident of the
domain and it is purposefully built for many people. Using this
service means that the only customisations that can be made are on the
client side, although the number of possibilites here is still huge.
Having your own instance will allow you to also modify things on the
server side too.

Yes, anyone can access and modify the source code. One of the beauties
of Open Source software, which TiddlySpace is.
The more people that use their own instances in different ways the
more information and opinions available that can aid further
development of the project.

Hope that helps,

Colm

[1] - hosted at http://tiddlyspace.com

[Pablo Trujillo]

Oh... I was asking more in the way to put TidllySpace in my own
server. Is that possible?

On Jan 20, 12:24 pm, colmjude <colmj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 20, 1:13 pm, Pablo Trujillo <pablo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh... that looks good... are you saying that we can get all that site
> > and create it for us for free? and also access the code to customize
> > it?
>
> Anybody is free to use the TiddlySpace service[1] but everyone that
> does should bear in mind that they aren't the only resident of the
> domain and it is purposefully built for many people. Using this
> service means that the only customisations that can be made are on the
> client side, although the number of possibilites here is still huge.
> Having your own instance will allow you to also modify things on the
> server side too.
>
> Yes, anyone can access and modify the source code. One of the beauties
> of Open Source software, which TiddlySpace is.
> The more people that use their own instances in different ways the
> more information and opinions available that can aid further
> development of the project.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Colm
>

> [1] - hosted athttp://tiddlyspace.com

[colmjude]

On Jan 20, 4:17 pm, Pablo Trujillo <pablo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh... I was asking more in the way to put TidllySpace in my own
> server. Is that possible?

Yes. The source code for tiddlyspace is available for anyone to view,
edit, take, deploy on their of servers, do whatever they want to do
with it.

[Poul]

But unless you are a seasoned Python user, you may still find
tiddlyspace deployment to be a far from trivial task with several
dependencies. I, for one, got stuck and gave up pretty quickly. But
then of course, I am biased toward my own alternative, which can now
be deployed to Google's hosting service (App Engine)  in less than an
hour (I believe). I would of course argue that it has other advantages
as well, particularly for the casual users -  like more helpful &
conventional structuring concepts. The one major catch is that only
Google accounts can be used for authentication, but then, who doesn't
have one...

http://giewiki.appspot.com/#DeploymentGuide
https://www.coderbuddy.com/projects/giewiki

:-) Poul

[HansBKK]

Does your solution store one's tiddler data where Eric Schmidt could read it?

[Poul]

I'm not sure what you mean - you can export your pages as stand-alone
tiddlywikis or just-the-content XML.
But the native storage used by giewiki is the cloud-hosted App Engine
data store documented here:

http://code.google.com/intl/da-DK/appengine/docs/python/datastore/

[HansBKK]

On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:52:36 AM UTC+7, Poul wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean - you can export your pages as stand-alone
tiddlywikis or just-the-content XML.
But the native storage used by giewiki is the cloud-hosted App Engine
data store documented here:

http://code.google.com/intl/da-DK/appengine/docs/python/datastore/

I am looking for a self-hosted solution, and my specific concern here is data privacy, as several of my use cases prohibit cloud-based (or in fact any outside-the-group-accessible) storage. Strong on-disk encryption would of course be one approach, at a filesystem level, as ideally the tiddler data would be stored in an easily diffed/merged format and stored in/distributed by an arbitrary DVCS.

Any and all suggestions welcome, but don't mean to hijack the thread, feel free to fork this off if appropriate.

[Poul]

I would say, the combination of https and strong passwords should get
you a long way.
Depending on your setup, you could add client IP address restrictions.
And physical access would even be more secure in the cloud.

-Poul

[HansBKK]

On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:04:30 PM UTC+7, Poul wrote:

I would say, the combination of https and strong passwords should get
you a long way.
Depending on your setup, you could add client IP address restrictions.
And physical access would even be more secure in the cloud.

-Poul

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear - for these particular use cases the data itself cannot be stored on a machine out of the group's control.

Even if there were a service that had end-to-end encryption using transparent FOSS tools where the sysadmin at the data center and Justice Department storm troopers couldn't ever read the data on disk without direct application of rubber hoses to my cranium - not allowed.

[cdent]

On Jan 24, 8:48 am, HansBKK <hans...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry if I wasn't clear - for these particular use cases the data itself
> cannot be stored on a machine out of the group's control.
>
> Even if there were a service that had end-to-end encryption using
> transparent FOSS tools where the sysadmin at the data center and Justice
> Department storm troopers couldn't ever read the data on disk without
> direct application of rubber hoses to my cranium - not allowed.

TiddlyWeb is specifically architected to allow these kinds of
solutions. As far as I know there's no implementation that does all
the things you say, but the structure of the system is such that you
could:

* run the whole thing over ssl
* write a StorageInterface that saves to DCVS
* establish what are called "validators" that inspect cryptographic
signatures on submitted tiddlers to protect against man in the middle
attacks
* write a SerializationInterface which a) presents useful diffs of a
tiddler's history b) accepts patches as input

People moan a bit about TiddlyWeb's apparent complexity but it's
important to keep in mind what its goals were: To demonstrate what
really could be done if you had a well architected web api and server
for tiddlers. Thus, it has quite a number of configurable and
extendable abstractions that are initially a bit overwhelming. It's
the cost of power, I guess.

The existing implementations and installations have barely scratched
the surface of what's possible.

[HansBKK]

Unfortunately I'm more of a "power user" sysadmin, sometimes webdev, but have never been a programmer, looking for something that is likely to work out of the box, ideally with step-by-stop cookbooks.

Muddling along with sync'ing full TW files for now, some stuff in just lightly-marked-up plaintext in folders, some playing with traditional wiki platforms, we'll get there. . .

[Corey]

There are five options that allow you to store the data locally:

1 Use TiddlyWiki classic on a shared file-space (using the TiddlyLock
plugin to prevent loss of data). The network share can be encrypted
and any sort of file sharing can be used. I do this with DropBox. You
could also use a third party, local software to sync the drives.
2. Host TiddlyWiki classic on a local PHP enabled server with
UploadTiddlerPlugin and UploadPlugin installed. If you use HTTPS and
encrypt the source server these methods could feasibly be secure
enough for your needs. If more than one person will be editing a
particular wiki,
3. Host your own version of TiddlyWeb - requires a web server with
Python
4. Host your own version of CcTiddly - requires a web server with PHP.
This is possibly the best solution, as CcTiddly allows multiple
workspaces, concurrent editing, etcetera.
5. Host your own version of giewiki. This requires you to download
your own copy of the App Engine SDK. I have no idea what it would
offer you.

Hope this helps!

[HansBKK]

On Thursday, January 26, 2012 3:47:09 AM UTC+7, Corey wrote:

There are five options that allow you to store the data locally:

Thanks Corey, nice survey, choices are great. I hope we'll see more actively maintained solutions with solid community support down the road.