O2 dongle won't access Tiddlyspace - when 3 does - why?

[dickon]

Hi, the team I work with in Edinburgh are still struggling to access their version of the TiddlyManual (see http://tiddlymanuals.tiddlyspace.com and follow links for AMBIT and Lothian CAMHS) - when they use an O2 dongle... it seems to load fine if they use a Three 3G dongle, but not with the O2 one... any thoughts?  here is what Abbi writes about the problem:

I was wondering if you could let me know the contacts of the IT guys who develop the website, or if you could approach them. I was hoping that this problem would have been resolved when we got a new SIM for the dongle, but alas it's still not loading.

Here's the main points:
1. I can access the website on the laptop if I use a three 3G dongle.
2. The O2 donlge I have will access the internet and other sites but not the tiddly space ones.
3. It will find the website and load a white screen with a single pink and blue circle icon in the top left corner.

Any advice graefully received, as this is a really practical issue that is hindering the general uptake of tiddlywiki in a team keen to use it!

Dickon

[Jeremy Ruston]

> Hi, the team I work with in Edinburgh are still struggling to access their
> version of the TiddlyManual (see http://tiddlymanuals.tiddlyspace.com and
> follow links for AMBIT and Lothian CAMHS) - when they use an O2 dongle... it
> seems to load fine if they use a Three 3G dongle, but not with the O2 one...
> any thoughts?  here is what Abbi writes about the problem:

Oh dear, I think this is one of those cases where o2 modifies mobile
web traffic in a way that breaks applications. There are more details
here:

http://stuartroebuck.blogspot.com/2010/07/mobile-proxy-cache-content-modification.html

I found a blog post that suggests that the problem can be resolved at
the server:

http://blog.gotfocussolutions.com/index.php/2011/10/jquery-mobile-doesnt-work-on-o2-3gedge-due-to-mobile-proxy-cache-content-modification/

Chris may be able to investigate the same resolution on tiddlyspace.com.

Best wishes

Jeremy

>> I was wondering if you could let me know the contacts of the IT guys who
>> develop the website, or if you could approach them. I was hoping that this
>> problem would have been resolved when we got a new SIM for the dongle, but
>> alas it's still not loading.
>>
>> Here's the main points:
>> 1. I can access the website on the laptop if I use a three 3G dongle.
>> 2. The O2 donlge I have will access the internet and other sites but not
>> the tiddly space ones.
>> 3. It will find the website and load a white screen with a single pink and
>> blue circle icon in the top left corner.
>
>
> Any advice graefully received, as this is a really practical issue that is
> hindering the general uptake of tiddlywiki in a team keen to use it!
>
> Dickon
>

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[dickon]

this is really helpful, Jeremy - though a drag as the the team have just spent scant NHS budget on an O2 dongle!  OK, it gives us something to work on.

dickon

[dickon]

As an immediate solution, the saving mechanism in TiddlySpace/Tiddlymanuals will allow the to team load the site onto the laptop in a different part of the building (where they can get the internet  without going via O2), they can then make edits offline in the team meeting room; these will be saved automatically in the browser memory - so they can sync these changes when they next go online.

My assumption is that in the medium term the fix for this team will be to try to get a different dongle for their laptop (the room they have team meetings in does not have wireless or networked access to the internet, so they need mobile internet in order to be able to edit their team manual.) 

In the longer term I am guessing that either clever TW'ers will find a fix, or O2 will be persuaded to change their set-up so they don't mangle web-content without at least giving their users a chance to opt in or out of this speed enhancing.

Dickon

[Jeremy Ruston]

> As an immediate solution, the saving mechanism in TiddlySpace/Tiddlymanuals
> will allow the to team load the site onto the laptop in a different part of
> the building (where they can get the internet  without going via O2), they
> can then make edits offline in the team meeting room; these will be saved
> automatically in the browser memory - so they can sync these changes when
> they next go online.

That's sounds like a good immediate workaround.

> My assumption is that in the medium term the fix for this team will be to
> try to get a different dongle for their laptop (the room they have team
> meetings in does not have wireless or networked access to the internet, so
> they need mobile internet in order to be able to edit their team manual.)

If the problem is the one identified in the article, then it will be
relatively straightforward to fix it on tiddlyspace.com - Chris will
be able to comment authoritatively, of course.

> In the longer term I am guessing that either clever TW'ers will find a fix,
> or O2 will be persuaded to change their set-up so they don't mangle
> web-content without at least giving their users a chance to opt in or out of
> this speed enhancing.

Persuading O2 is definitely worth doing; carriers seem apt to take a
cavalier attitude with traffic

Best wishes

Jeremy

[dickon]

Thanks Jeremy.

Chris, any suggestions as far as Tiddlyspace workarounds for O2's non-fucntionality via mobile broadband?  Surprised no-one else has noticed this problem - it is areal drag for the team in Edinburgh.  Getting a different brand of mobile broadband dongle out of an NHS organisation that has only just consented to give you one is... hard work!

Best,

Dickon

[HansBKK]

On Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:12:55 PM UTC+7, dickon wrote:

Getting a different brand of mobile broadband dongle out of an NHS organisation that has only just consented to give you one is... hard work!

Not that it would be an easier path, but I reckon you'd have a case for getting all your money back from O2.

Start out gently on the assumption they will do the right thing, document all correspondence and conversations in both directions, then if necessary start an Internet PR campaign playing up the NHS angle and embarrass them into either fixing the issue or at least giving your employer a "donation" large enough to cover your costs of switching to their competitor.

[cdent]

Sorry Dickon, I've been pretty much completely off the internet for
the past week or so, being ill, so hadn't seen this.

Jeremy's right, I should be able to make some adjustments to the
headers that the server sends that will allow it to work correctly.
This, of course, assumes that the tools O2 are using respect those
headers.

http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/#sec-cache-control-no-transform

I assume you're witnessing the problem primarily with the TiddlyWiki
representation?

I'll look into adjusting the default set of headers that TiddlyWeb
sends and hopefully that will fix it. Should have something in place
within the next few hours.

However, you should probably moan some at O2 if you have the chance as
these transforming proxies are just out of place for modern situations.

[Dickon Bevington]

It's not an unreasonable suggestion!  You bought broadband specifically to use it for this purpose, and it doesnt work, when all the other mobile broadbands do... (well, certainly 3 works fine, and so did Vodafone when I had it a while ago.)

Thanks Hans!

Dickon

--
Dr Dickon Bevington
07917 133 019
07962 163 062

[dickon]

Sorry to hear you have been unwell - hope you are better now.

The problem is occurring in Edinburgh, one of the NHS teams trained and using the AMBIT manual (their version is at http://ambit-edinburgh.tiddlyspace.com and they have been busy adapting and improving their version in ways that are really exciting to see).  They got an O2 dongle to help them access the internet in the room the team meets and from where they are wanting to do most of their "manualizing" (i.e. making local edits and additions to their manual, which overwrite the material included from our core manaul at http://ambit.tiddlyspace.com).  When they go online it works fine until they try to use tiddlyspace, when they just get a white screen, with the tiddlyspace "target" icon, and that is that...

they are managing just about as they can make local edits, and then sync them from local browser memory at a later date, but I am really keen to try to help them, as they are really one of the ambit champions, and in every other way the project is going so well...

By the way, Jon Lister and Joshua Bradley's new ambit theme is nearly ready and is looking great (http://ambit-theme-v3-test.tiddlyspace.com/#)

All the best, and any clever fix you can find would be great.

Dickon

[chris...@gmail.com]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012, dickon wrote:

> Sorry to hear you have been unwell - hope you are better now.

Nearly there.

> When they go online it works fine until they try to use tiddlyspace, when
> they just get a white screen, with the tiddlyspace "target" icon, and that
> is that...

I've added a Cache-Control: no-transform to every response from the
server. According to the specs this is supposed take care of it. Can
you let me know if it is does?

> By the way, Jon Lister and Joshua Bradley's new ambit theme is nearly ready
> and is looking great (http://ambit-theme-v3-test.tiddlyspace.com/#)

It's looking very nice. Some very interesting tricks in there.

--
Chris Dent http://burningchrome.com/
[...]

[dickon]

YES!  According to the Edinburgh team it is now FIXED!

Thanks a lot Chris - this is great and has been a really positive experience for the team at how fast the community (well, you) can sort out these kinds of problems.

Dickon